shohei ohtani alert

for no reason i can adequately explain i am a huge tommy marolda fan. haven't really followed baseball since the twins won the '87 world series, tho.

pulled from a blog online, these are the players who led the league in homers and triples in the same season, like Ohtani is doing now:

Harry Stovey (2x)
Tip O'Neill
Harry Lumley
Jim Bottomley
Tommy Leach
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Jim Rice

Rice used to ground into a million double plays, surprised by that.

i was kinda surprised too, it's not like he was one of those five tool contributors, he wasn't a Dawson or Walker or Bonds. must have been finding those gaps (not much of a doubles guy though, he hit 30+ only thrice.)

lotta guys have been position players + played football: deion, brian jordan, bo, lol tebow; could maybe have had kyler murray and russell wilson were the nfl not so much more lucrative for QBs

lotta guys have been position players + played hoops: ainge, groat, gwynn, strawberry, eric davis, lol jordan

but pitching is a very different skill set. being super-athletic can help you run and dunk or whatever, but it won't help as much in making you a big-league pitcher

milwaukee bucks guard pat connaughton was a fourth-round MLB pick (and likely would have gone in the second had he committed to baseball) and threw 96, which i find extremely interesting

and tom glavine was taken higher in the NHL draft than hall-of-famer luc robitaille, which is fucking crazy

i think those last two guys are more comparable to shohei/ruth than dave winfield is . . . except shohei/ruth actually *did* the two things and connaughton/glavine only *might* have

fwiw gordie howe was supposedly a v. good position player, probably not least because of his fucking enormous forearms

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkmEkxoVEAAGNhw.jpg

Bob Gibson? Had the pitching stuff figured out...His batting stats (three or four AB per week, probably) aren't great for a non-pitcher, but I get the feeling he could have done whatever he set his mind to. Not saying Ohtani-level, but I think he could have been successful as a two-way player.

One thing in that Winfield tweet I disagree with is "but teams didn't have the vision back then." Are there other teams trying this now? It seems that one team has the vision/nerve/whatever to try it. It worked out so spectacularly well, they're probably going to lose the player.

I wonder if Ohtani is analogous in a way to Jackie Robinson. Ohtani's experiment obviously isn't as soul-crushing and ultimately as heroic as Robinson's, but one thing most everyone would agree on is that there were other Black players just as amazing as Robinson or Mays or Aaron who simply never got the chance (or, like Paige, only briefly got the chance, long after the fact). Baseball made a decision after Ruth that you had to be a pitcher or a position player. So you can say that Ohtani is this singular player that comes along once every 100 years, and there's no way to refute that. But if other teams are trying this in the low minors right now (or start to after this season), 10 or 15 years from now there might be another Ohtani, leaving people to wonder why there was an unwritten rule against two-way players for a century.

"vision/nerve/whatever"--being the Angels, add "desperation."

Last thing: the truism that in high school, most major leaguers were the best hitter/pitcher/fielder/everything on their team.

yeah coming from outside the draft, ohtani had unusual leverage in forcing a team to let him do both. that's a labor issue

hunter greene could have done both, but the reds made him concentrate on pitching because he can throw 100+. and the financial incentives encouraged him to follow along

But if other teams are trying this in the low minors right now (or start to after this season), 10 or 15 years from now there might be another Ohtani, leaving people to wonder why there was an unwritten rule against two-way players for a century.

The Giants, last year drafted Reggie Crawford as a two-way player with their first pick. This year they took Bryce Eldridge, 16th overall, as another two-way player.

Okay, didn't know that.

https://www.mlb.com/news/bryce-eldridge-ready-for-mlb-draft-as-two-way-player

I find the 3.50 ERA a little puzzling: lowest H/9 in the league, 11.9 K/9, and while his control isn't great, his K/BB ratio is 3.00, and even into the '80s and '90s that was still excellent. (Clemens for his career: 2.96.) I guess it's the home runs: 14 in 105.1 innings, a rate about four or five times what league leader Sonny Gray's is. Not sure why that is.

I guess it's the home runs...

ya think?

The "not sure why that is" was more important. If you have that much stuff, and you're wild enough that (presumably) batters can't dig in--I can sort of understand why Verlander gives up a lot of homers--why does he give so many up?

If I were to wager he's probably tipping his FB.

came across this dude. not a HOFer but an interesting career for sure. a pretty superior starting pitcher and a regular pinch hitter, enough to get a decent chunk of his career bWAR from hitting alone.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/ferrewe01.shtml

Forgot about him, definitely--his brother Rick, a catcher, is in the HOF.

Not being traded

I don't know about that, if they would have gotten some top end talent then you should take it. They have, practically, no chance of resigning him.

Six of the home runs were in his last three starts (fingernail and blister issues), when his ERA fell from 3.02. Beating the Tigers this morning.

I doubt anyone was willing to offer the right package for a rental.

I saw a story the other day about how the Jays were very much in the running for Ohtani...which is joke in view of the way Shapiro/Atkins operate (and really, the club in general with regards to the kind of long-term contract that would be needed--or would have been needed, as the case may be).

I'm glad they're keeping him. I thought it would be smart to trade him even for an "underwhelming" package but I kinda hate that shit honestly. Ride or die baby

He’s still pitching bottom of the 8th, is he going for a shutout? 81 pitches, looks like it!

(xpost) I usually agree, I always want face-of-the-franchise players to stay with said franchise. (I'm living in a dream world from 30 years ago...although it still occasionally happens.) But thinking about Trout's experience, I was really hoping he'd get out of there, even if it meant the Dodgers or Yankees.

111 pitches, 3 walks, 1 hit, 8 strikeouts, first complete game shutout of his MLB career.

I'm watching live and live so close to the stadium that I could walk there. Anyways, after pitching the first game he has already hit a two run home run in the second game.

They said it was number 37 and the lead in that category?

By nine--he's making a run at Judge.

38

honestly the most insane shit I've ever seen in professional sports

Insane, has anyone ever had a better day?

Shit.

Ohtani is insane, but he was grabbing at his side/hip/oblique on a home run swing

— Red Sox Stats (@redsoxstats) July 27, 2023

pic.twitter.com/LlZfqGFG9p

— Red Sox Stats (@redsoxstats) July 27, 2023

Insane, has anyone ever had a better day?

Maybe:

https://baseballhall.org/discover/short-stops/rick-wise-no-hitter#:~:text=But%20few%20players%20ever%20had,Cincinnati%20Reds%20at%20Riverfront%20Stadium.

But it was more of a once-in-a-lifetime thing with him.

Yeah he’s been taken out.

Thanks for sharing clem, as I was seriously wondering.

I know MadBum hit two home runs in one game but he didn't also pitch a complete game.

Removed due to cramping from Angels broadcast

That's evidently why the Cardinals traded Carlton for Rick Wise, they thought he'd pitch a no-hitter and hit two runs every start.

Angels off to a great start after going all in for a wildcard spot. Lucky to have a team like Detroit for a double header when none of their rivals are playing today, win a full game back into the race. Very easy to cheer for them when the yanks and sox are their competition

Rick Wise gets passing mention here:

https://www.mlb.com/news/facts-about-shohei-ohtani-1-hit-shutout-2-hr-day

(The aforementioned Wes Farrell, too.)

If you can stand Posnanski's relentless self-promotion:

https://open.substack.com/pub/joeposnanski/p/friday-rewind-ohtani-keeps-rewriting?r=1jtu0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

(If we land someone on Mars tomorrow, he'll post about it and tie it in with his upcoming book.)

I’m at the game and a lot of people: cheering for Ohtani also: boo’ing Ohtani and/or the people cheering for him. I’ve never heard such a loud mixed reaction home run in my life.
Also wow did he ever connect with that.

I’m at the game and a lot of people: cheering for Ohtani also: boo’ing Ohtani and/or the people cheering for him. I’ve never heard such a loud mixed reaction home run in my life.
Also wow did he ever connect with that.

Could hear that mix from the broadcast. This’ll be a fun series

Why is there booing?

What the hell happened to Ontani?