To What Extent Does Your Life Revolve Around Alejandro Kirk? (The 2023 Blue Jays Thread)

Glad I opted for a movie (looking at the linescore, I wouldn't have made it past the third inning). The enigma of Chris Bassitt continues:

5 best starts - 37 IP, 16 H, 8 BB, 33 K, 0.00 ERA
3 worst starts - 10.1 IP, 30 H, 3 BB, 10 K, 13.37 ERA

That last includes tonight.

Romano always makes me nervous, lived up to that tonight, but I've got to say, he took his hat off at one point, and right now he's about the gnarliest-looking Warren Oates/Sam Peckinpah player I think I've ever seen (or at least since the '70s, when they were everywhere).

There are obviously worse situations for a baseball fan--I wouldn't want to get saddled with a perennial doormat--but I think that rooting for an underachieving 85-win team is about as maddening and as exhausting as it gets. A dozen times during the year you think, "Okay, they're finally ready to go on a run," and a dozen times they let you down. If they were worse, you wouldn't feel any emotional stake in them at all; you know what they are. Underachieving 85-win teams spend the whole season teasing you.

what do you mean by underachieving 85-win teams.

?*

What I mean is, I think that's about how many games they'll win, 85--maybe a couple more, maybe a couple fewer--and because they were expected to do much better, maybe 93-wins+, it's very frustrating in a way it wouldn't be if they were worse, where those expectations wouldn't be there. (An overachieving 85-win season--like the Jays in '83, for instance--is very different and very exciting.)

Slight amendment: if they were playing worse, you would have let go of those expectations by now. But they're playing just well enough to keep fooling you.

That's my mindset, anyway; maybe yours is different.

yeah I definitely feel what you’re saying. For some reason I thought they were on a 90ish pace. Seems they’ve been underachieving for years now, and just missing the playoffs or getting whipped in short order when they get there. not an appealing prospect for this year, and that’s even if we have a 90+ season. I’m optimistic for the remainder of the season though, I think they’ll get up there based on some offensive luck turning around, etc.

Has Manoah tanked this team though, by virtue not only of having an historic drop-off, but due also to their lack of depth? it was mentioned during their Houston series that HOU had 3 SPs on the IL and still running a 6-man rotation out there! Imagine Toronto in that situation, currently hosting Bullpen Day until, when exactly?

I took a mental step back years ago, after seeing how something I couldn’t control could dictate my mood. I’ll enjoy the ride and hope they make the cut to vie for that hunk of metal. Only October ball can ruin my day!

90ish is actually closer--if they hold on to their lead today, they'd project to 89 wins. Which may or may not be enough for a wild-card this year.

Mahoah has obviously been the biggest problem, along with the domino effect you mention that he sets into motion. After that, the offense in general, and Vladdy, Chapman (.191/.265/.315 since May), and Springer in particular. A lot of things have had to go right go keep them on pace for 90.

In any event, maddening.

Manoah...

about that lead… does their blowing a 6-0 lead qualify as maddening or exhausting? I’m going with exhausting at this particular stage.

Can you believe it? Why did I blithely think a 6-0 lead was safe?

The Braves were a .500 team at the trade deadline in 2021 and won the WS. With 12 playoff teams, a middling team only needs a couple of decent hot streaks to sneak into the playoffs and have a chance.

For sure, I just thought the goal this year was more than fighting for a wild card and hoping for lighning to strike in the playoffs.

One nice thing about yesterday’s game was Horwitz’s debut going well.

Your return from the IL, Thermo, can only mean good things ahead for the Jays.

Much to my surprise, the Jays are dead-center across MLB in runs scored: 330 runs scored is the average, Jays have scored 330. My guess would have been that they're near the bottom--feels more like that.

Making the rounds, Brandon Belt on Ohtani leading the ASG voting for DH:

"Yeah, that's how you know it's rigged, I should be number one. And everybody knows I'm a better hitter than he is. Better DH, better leader. But here we are."

Love that--worthy of Votto or John Kruk.

When the Jays are playing well, I don't pay much mind to the schedule. They're not, so I'll take some heart from the radio people saying they're over the toughest stretch and should have an easier time for the next while. Starting with the no-longer-unbeatable A's. They really need to sweep.

Vlad's first HR at home this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDWU2SR27g4

I don't know if I mean them or me or both.

Reminiscent of the Marlee Matlin Seinfeld:

https://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2023/06/toronto-blue-jays-announcers-racy-call-misheard/

I don't know...a little muffled, but I'm not sure I hear it that way.

When you know the punchline ahead of time, you can't unhear it (one tweet alluded to this). If I had heard it as a blind test, I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed anything.

um

Alek Manoah today in his 1st FCL start:

2.2 IP • 11 ER, 10 H, 2 BB, 3 K
• 2 HR

Most of the hitters Manoah faced (and his own defenders) are 18-19 years old. That’s why these numbers can’t be taken too literally, but still, this is a stunning line. #BlueJays

— Keegan Matheson (@KeeganMatheson) June 27, 2023

I think tonight is Gausman's first start against the Giants since leaving.

"3 punchies, let's go!"

xp

I listened to Jeff Blair and Kevin Barker go on for 20 minutes about Manoah tonight. I understood the points Blair was trying to make; Barker, not even close.

brandon mccarthy tweeted that if manoah was 'working on very specific things in the zone' then it's probably not a big deal

but if he was really trying to compete, well, that's bad

i obviously have no idea, but he doesn't *seem* like the kind of guy who's willing to get shelled in an 'official game' just to work out certain kinks

Everything I've read or heard about yesterday's start has mentioned the working-on-specific-things disclaimer. Which I sort of get, but whatever he's working on, I assume the overall goal is to get batters out, so unless it was one blooper after another...I basically agree with Jeff Blair, the radio guy I mentioned: probably best to think of him in terms of next year. For now, focus on the wild-card spot you're scratching at--obviously the team is, fans may not be. Their anemic offense wasted another great start by Gausman yesterday.

I don't think it's necessarily about getting guys out, say, if you're sticking to one zone/pitch. No one knows what's going on with him right now, which imo is the worst time to listen to sports radio speculators, especially that Barker. I'm worried about the timeline for him tho

as a manoah drafter this year i've been keeping an eye on this car crash ... schneider was saying in the press that manoah was trending back towards being called back up. maybe that was just BS. he gave a quote yesterday saying that the team was encouraged by what they saw in the rehab start in terms of his delivery, velocity etc but i have a really hard time believing that getting hammered to that degree by a *complex league* line up portends anything positive. even if 18/19 year old rookie ball hitters know what pitch is coming & its location, they still shouldn't be pummeling homers off a major league pitcher who just finished top 3 in cy young. i know manoah hasn't necessarily ever been a "stuff" kinda guy but... the stuff is simply supposed to transcend that. especially if you saw what manoah looked like in his starts this year it feels like a complete ground up rebuild mentally & physically, whatever it is they're doing now

(xpost) Barker's incomprehensible half the time; I like Blair.

That's what I mean--the disconnect between "we were encouraged by what we saw" and him getting pummeled by low rookies. (And yes, xposts, I can't see Manoah ever not being super competitive.) Haven't read this yet, but Sports Illustrated has a piece up:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/06/28/alek-manoah-blue-jays-rookie-ball-start

I've said this before: whatever you think of him, Buck Martinez sometimes amazes me by calling a play exactly as it happens before it happens (Tabler would do that too). Jays down 7-5, bottom of the ninth, Springer on third and Bichette on second, two out; Martinez says the Jays should send Bichette on a single hit anywhere except right at Verdugo, the only guy out there with an arm. So Guerrero lines a single right at Verdugo, Bichette runs through the stop sign (and hesitates for a split second after rounding third besides), out at the plate.

i really like buck, it's just unfortunate that his voice is so terrible

Turns out Rivera, the third-base coach, initially waved him through, then threw up the stop sign. Anyway, Buck's call the only bright spot in another miserable loss.

i obviously haven't seen the play, but bo's not slow and the red sox are like the worst defensive team in history, so it does seem worth challenging that rather than needing another hit?

Thing is, it wasn't even close--and Bichette's split-second hesitation didn't really matter. Also Chapman on deck, who'd homered his last AB...I'm second-guessing here; Buck definitely wasn't.

fair enough!

You can watch the play here (right side at the bottom):

https://www.mlb.com/gameday/red-sox-vs-blue-jays/2023/07/01/717547/final/wrap

I'd probably normally agree with you, especially with the Jays so anemic offensively--it's not like they wouldn't go on to lose in extras. I was just impressed with Buck's not atypical clairvoyance.

otm

It was a bad decision by Bichette. The ball arrived and the catcher had time to get a sandwich and coffee before Bichette got there. Buck OTM.

I watched this play live & about a million times since like it’s the Zapruder film. The consensus online seems to be:

- 3rd base coach initially waved Bichette home
- Bichette ran for home but missed when the sign changed/decided to go for broke anyway
- Think he was out anyway if he tried to go back to third will probably get caught in a rundown?

So, focusing a micro lens on this particular game-ending sequence … Did you, Bo, see Rivera make the stop sign at third?

“Yeah, I saw him,” said Bichette, who had a solo blast in the third inning, his team-leading 15th home run.

That actually wasn’t entirely clarifying.

“I mean, I knew the situation. If we could score a run, I needed to be aggressive and get there. But I also know that the ball was hit to their best thrower. I kind of assumed I’d be stopped but I didn’t really see anything.”

What are you saying exactly, Bo?

“I was ready to go. I assumed I would probably be stopped because of who it was hit to. Didn’t really see anything to tell me either way.”

Bichette is simply not the sort of person who would throw anybody under the bus. He takes groundballs with Rivera before every game. If he didn’t see, he didn’t see, or there was nothing to see, or Rivera in that split-second was betwixt arm-wheeling Bichette home or holding him up. In that fraction of confusion, the blink of an eye, Bichette ever so slightly stutter-stepped, rounding third. That might have made the crucial difference, though he thinks not.

“I think I was out either way.”

“It’s a fine line because you want to be aggressive against a really good pitcher because hits are hard to come by,” Schneider continued. “At the same time with how hard Vladdy hit that ball, I think that it makes it a really tough decision to send the guy there. So I think looking at the video — I looked at it briefly — I think Luis’ hand was up and Bo’s hauling ass, Bo’s trying to score, so it’s a bang-bang play. It’s really nobody’s fault and you’re not going to say it’s on Bo or it’s on Luis. You know what I mean? It’s a play that happens really quick and just didn’t go our way.”

Sorry! A new angle has emerged, just looks like bad baserunning decisions from this angle?

Alex Verdugo silences the Rogers Centre.

Alex Cora had some heavy praise for him after the game… “He's one of the best, if not the best, defensive right fielders in the American League.”

79th percentile OAA. 94th percentile arm strength. pic.twitter.com/jIRy2mUGbs

— Tyler Milliken ⚾️ (@tylermilliken_) July 2, 2023

Jays liked what they saw from Manoah last time out so much, they promoted him to Double-A; he'll take the mound for the Double-A New Hampshire Fisher Cats in 15 minutes.

This Pat Jordan book I've been reading reminded me of another possible parallel to Manoah: Steve Blass. After the Huyek-Kison chapter, the next chapter skips forward to the '71 World Series and Kison's breakthrough. Blass was phenomenal that Series--two CG wins, 7 hits, 2 runs, surefire MVP except for that guy the Pirates had in RF--and he was great again in '72, finishing second in the Cy. In '73, he couldn't throw a strike: 88 IP, 84 walks. More of the same to start '74, and that was it--gone forever.

The big difference, Blass was 31. But it was such a memorable instance of losing it overnight, it gets this in his Wikipedia entry:

A condition referred to as "Steve Blass disease" has become a part of baseball lexicon. The "diagnosis" is applied to talented players who inexplicably and permanently seem to lose their ability to throw a baseball accurately. The fielder's variant of "Steve Blass disease" is sometimes referred to in baseball terminology as "Steve Sax syndrome".

Notable victims of "Steve Blass disease" include Rick Ankiel, Mark Wohlers, Dontrelle Willis, Ricky Romero, Daniel Bard.

Romero, of course, gets mentioned a lot here.

Love this from the same Wikipedia entry: In House, MD season three, episode 21, Dr. Gregory House thinks that Dr. Eric Foreman has gotten the Yips from killing a patient in the previous episode. He briefly explains the condition and says that Dr. Foreman has lost his confidence. In his explanation he mentions, by name, Pittsburgh Pirates’ World Series champion Steve Blass as having suffered the condition.

The Season 5 episode of Northern Exposure “Blood Ties” features an explicit reference to Blass during a discussion of Dr. Joel Fleischman's sudden inability to hit a vein while attempting to draw blood.

In season 1 of Prison Playbook episode 14, the main character, Kim Je-hyuk, is attributed with Steve Blass disease when trying to make his comeback in baseball.

Crisis averted! (Kidding at both ends of that statement.) Pitched five stellar innings: 3 hits, 3 walks, 10 strikeouts, 1 run.

Ugly loss yesterday. 0-7 against the Red Sox this year.

https://jaysjournal.com/posts/astros-legend-jose-altuve-drops-subtle-hint-about-a-future-with-the-blue-jays

Posting that not for the Altuve speculation, which seems kind of farfetched to me, but for this: "If we could dream big, adding Altuve to the already potent Jays’ lineup would definitely bring them to the next level."

"Already potent Jays' lineup"? Jesus, what universe is this guy living in?

Manoah's coming back and will start Friday in Detroit.

I don't know--I'll stop short of saying "smacks of desperation," but this really seems rushed to me.