To What Extent Does Your Life Revolve Around Alejandro Kirk? (The 2023 Blue Jays Thread)

At work, haven't had a chance to read this yet. Manoah/Halladay: similarities, differences.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-blue-jays-alek-manoah-roy-halladay-comparisons-hold-any-merit-173412788.html

what on earth

As part of their upcoming Pride Weekend, the #BlueJays plan to have Anthony Bass catch the ceremonial first pitch on Friday.

— Keegan Matheson (@KeeganMatheson) June 8, 2023

I really hesitate to weigh in on this, but wouldn't that be one way to demonstrate some penance? Meaningless if there's a gun to his head (like when a principal forces a kid to write a letter of apology to you), but if sincere, it's something.

It’s not remotely sincere and they should be embarrassed.

Asked Anthony Bass if he’s changed his views on the video:

“The video itself, I took it down. I felt like it was too much of a distraction. I stand by my personal beliefs and everyone is entitled to their personal beliefs, right? But I also mean no harm to any groups of people.”

— Keegan Matheson (@KeeganMatheson) June 8, 2023

Thanks for clearing that up. I can go back to hesitating to weigh in on this.

Yeah, wouldn’t want to make any judgment calls on a current staff member.

On-field-related post--sorry...It'll be huge if they can take this tonight. Between Gausman and Bassitt, and Berrios continuing to pitch pretty well, I'm starting to think they can withstand Manoah's banishment to Siberia. Enough to take a wild-card, anyway.

Not crazy about his tweeting and all that myself (see comment a few above); I remember thinking at one point, "Jesus, just pitch." But I think most anybody would have felt some sympathy seeing him walk off the mound last night.

― clemenza, Tuesday, June 6, 2023 4:16 PM (two days ago)

glad we've discovered the line where you will or will not hesitate to weigh in on social media posting

I find it amusing that I was told, very clearly, not to post about Hall of Fame or statistical-related matters in gyac's Magical Kingdom of Baseball thread, but turning the Jays thread into whatever it is you're turning it into is perfectly okay.

xp ceremonial pitch tweet: I thought this was a joke. It would be about him. a PR event for Bass that would obviously backfire because of the boos that would cloud the whole proceeding and trivialize the message. I really don't think it will actually happen.

Putting aside your childish dig at my thread - which I said already you are welcome in, I just do not care about the HoF at all, which is why I leave those discussions too interested parties - Bass’s conduct is extremely relevant itt. And btw, not a single member of my family follows or knows anything about baseball besides that I like it but they have sent me links about this guy’s behaviour on Twitter because it was that bad that it crossed over from baseball coverage!

The question about what the franchise will tolerate from a reliever especially when the franchise is based in a relatively liberal community like Toronto is an entirely valid one. If this guy was a Mariner I’d be posting in my thread about that.

Then, for the third or fourth time, we'll call a truce. They won tonight, I'm happy, and he won't, in all probability, last the season, maybe not even the week.

thought exercise: a baseball player reposts a video of someone calling jews ‘evil and demonic’ and calling for a boycott of jewish-owned stores. after an outcry, he deletes the post and says that he, a well-traveled and presumably literate man in his thirties, didn’t realize such a thing might be considered ‘hateful’.

he apologizes for any harm he might have caused the bris community, but defends his right to his faith and personal beliefs — which still align with those of the video. sure, the jews killed jesus and regularly drink the blood of christian children, but he regrets that they found his saying so hurtful.

then on jewish community night, the team asks a rabbi to throw a pitch to him.

i mean, bass is who he is. but the team even considering such a thing is just mind-blowing.

Jays are still being very secretive about--still being very what-the-fuck-do-we-do? about tomorrow's starter.

As is my tendency, I presented the most optimistic view of life-without-Manoah above. Just, if not more likely: Kikuchi and Berrios revert to 2022, one of Gausman or Bassitt takes a step back, and a rotating crew of TBDs in the fifth spot. Not pretty.

xp welp nevermind; bass dfa’d

(mitch white reinstated from the IL)

Was just coming here to post that, like the Red Sox thing yesterday, what was the fucking point? Just burning goodwill for what?

I assume he’s not still catching the first pitch

oh that's a relief. i was very bothered by the prospect of having to boycott this team if he caught that ceremonial pitch. I love my Jays, but that's a clear line that cannot be crossed. Good riddance, looking forward to the game.

Suspected they'd go with Mitch White, who just got hammered in 20 innings at Buffalo this year. They're going to have to engineer a trade, I think (quite sure they're very actively trying to do so). I don't know if Biggio or Espinal can net them much. I don't know what they do.

Yeah Mitch is kinda the official 6th man, so i guess they go with him as far as his performance will allow? Their lack of depth everywhere is very exposed.

I guess that 5th spot is more of an opener thing now, and they're looking for 3 or 4 decent innings from White.

I haven't followed Buffalo since Vladdy, but if they had a couple of decent replacement-level bats there, maybe they could package Biggio and Espinal together for a decent pitcher? (I say that having no idea what either's contract status is.) The Jays would lose their versatility, but that'd also be a selling point--and, if given some playing time, either guy could surprise, like Espinal did in 2021 and into 2022.

"On June 9, you'll be playing .563 baseball, four-and-a-half games up on the Red Sox, a game behind the Yankees."

I probably would have said "I'll take that." Tampa playing .700 and the Orioles taking a huge leap forward were not really on my radar.

Premature--still only 20 months removed from one of the three or four greatest Blue Jay seasons ever--but, with Manoah out of the picture for a while, I expect fan and media scrutiny of Vlad will step up. (It's been there all year, but Manoah deflected some of that.)

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/bo-bichette-not-vladimir-guerrero-jr-face-blue-jays-144841338.html

He's four-and-a-half seasons along, and in three-and-a-half of them, his OPS has been between .772 and .818--put aside 2021, and he's been pretty consistent. He's been really good on the road this year (9 HR, .321/.391/.575), but, bizarrely, he hasn't yet hit a HR at Rogers. Still a season-and-half away from free agency, but getting closer.

Trevor Richards gets the start today.

Richards was great, and then--the Domino Theory, I believe it's called--the bullpen coughed up a 3-0 lead in the late innings (including a Correa grand slam). Belt, who after a miserable April has been great the past month, looks like he might be out.

Belt is like that unfortunately. Man’s crocked. I was following him all year and I really wanted him to do well (since they should have let him retire a Giant imo). MLB posted a micd up with Vladdy a couple of weeks back and he named Belt as one of the veterans he’d played with who he considered amazing. It made me really happy for him thriving! Hopefully he’s not out too long.

Definitely turning into my dad. I turned the game off in disgust after the 7th, missed Biggio's home run.

lol

my dad always turned the penguins off when they went down two goals, which, as a-rod will tell you, is the most dangerous lead

I remember in the '92 WS, after the Jays lost the first game, they were down in the middle innings of G2 (I checked the details--down 2-0, tied it 2-2, fell behind again 4-2). My dad gave up, went to bed, and missed Sprague's HR and the Jays winning. I gave him what-for the next day: "How could you leave? It's their first WS ever--how could you miss a minute?"

As I get older, I understand. Disappointment feels worse (and the Jays, in '92, before they won, had come so close so many times the past decade), so you tend to vacate at the first sign of trouble.

As I get older, I understand. Disappointment feels worse

i'd have thought otherwise when i was young, but absolutely

why tho?

It's an interesting question, and I don't know the answer. You've experienced elation, and that's all you want. I lived and died with the Jays from '83 through '93. Now I live with them when they're playing well, and I turn my attention elsewhere when they're not. I go through a much more casual version of that with the Raptors and Leafs. Hardcore Leafs fans like my friend's father, now in his '90s...I can't even fathom what that's like.

Maybe because you have less time left yourself, the idea of using some of it to watch your favourite team lose just doesn't make sense.

kinda feel like it's more the opposite -- we've won, and it was great but only lasts for one offseason

but now there are expectations that can never be met, so we experience desolation and you/i/we now desperately want to avoid it

that does not explain your friend's father, but the leafs are on another level

maybe that wasn't really an opposite

i suppose, like the manager of the year award, it's about exceeding expectations? and once your team has won, those are your expectations

does not quite make me feel bad for yankees fans tho

In last year's playoffs vs the Mariners, I turned off G2 with the Jays ahead 7-1 and missed the Mariners' comeback. I figured the game was over, so it was better to step away and save my viewing energy for G3.

Obviously this was dumb thinking, and the younger me never would have done it. My point is that is not always about whether your team is winning or losing. No matter the situation, you get older and need more time to reset between games. If you get the feeling that the game you're watching isn't essential viewing, you might choose to turn it off.

Six in Baltimore and Texas, only one Gausman start, no off-day--not especially optimistic.

Glad I opted for a movie (looking at the linescore, I wouldn't have made it past the third inning). The enigma of Chris Bassitt continues:

5 best starts - 37 IP, 16 H, 8 BB, 33 K, 0.00 ERA
3 worst starts - 10.1 IP, 30 H, 3 BB, 10 K, 13.37 ERA

That last includes tonight.

Romano always makes me nervous, lived up to that tonight, but I've got to say, he took his hat off at one point, and right now he's about the gnarliest-looking Warren Oates/Sam Peckinpah player I think I've ever seen (or at least since the '70s, when they were everywhere).

There are obviously worse situations for a baseball fan--I wouldn't want to get saddled with a perennial doormat--but I think that rooting for an underachieving 85-win team is about as maddening and as exhausting as it gets. A dozen times during the year you think, "Okay, they're finally ready to go on a run," and a dozen times they let you down. If they were worse, you wouldn't feel any emotional stake in them at all; you know what they are. Underachieving 85-win teams spend the whole season teasing you.

what do you mean by underachieving 85-win teams.

?*

What I mean is, I think that's about how many games they'll win, 85--maybe a couple more, maybe a couple fewer--and because they were expected to do much better, maybe 93-wins+, it's very frustrating in a way it wouldn't be if they were worse, where those expectations wouldn't be there. (An overachieving 85-win season--like the Jays in '83, for instance--is very different and very exciting.)

Slight amendment: if they were playing worse, you would have let go of those expectations by now. But they're playing just well enough to keep fooling you.

That's my mindset, anyway; maybe yours is different.

yeah I definitely feel what you’re saying. For some reason I thought they were on a 90ish pace. Seems they’ve been underachieving for years now, and just missing the playoffs or getting whipped in short order when they get there. not an appealing prospect for this year, and that’s even if we have a 90+ season. I’m optimistic for the remainder of the season though, I think they’ll get up there based on some offensive luck turning around, etc.

Has Manoah tanked this team though, by virtue not only of having an historic drop-off, but due also to their lack of depth? it was mentioned during their Houston series that HOU had 3 SPs on the IL and still running a 6-man rotation out there! Imagine Toronto in that situation, currently hosting Bullpen Day until, when exactly?

I took a mental step back years ago, after seeing how something I couldn’t control could dictate my mood. I’ll enjoy the ride and hope they make the cut to vie for that hunk of metal. Only October ball can ruin my day!

90ish is actually closer--if they hold on to their lead today, they'd project to 89 wins. Which may or may not be enough for a wild-card this year.

Mahoah has obviously been the biggest problem, along with the domino effect you mention that he sets into motion. After that, the offense in general, and Vladdy, Chapman (.191/.265/.315 since May), and Springer in particular. A lot of things have had to go right go keep them on pace for 90.

In any event, maddening.

Manoah...

about that lead… does their blowing a 6-0 lead qualify as maddening or exhausting? I’m going with exhausting at this particular stage.

Can you believe it? Why did I blithely think a 6-0 lead was safe?

The Braves were a .500 team at the trade deadline in 2021 and won the WS. With 12 playoff teams, a middling team only needs a couple of decent hot streaks to sneak into the playoffs and have a chance.

For sure, I just thought the goal this year was more than fighting for a wild card and hoping for lighning to strike in the playoffs.