To What Extent Does Your Life Revolve Around Alejandro Kirk? (The 2023 Blue Jays Thread)

'the Pride community'

I KNOW

Pretty common observation about your hometown team, but a third of the way through, they are puzzling. Except for Manoah's total implosion (getting worse), a number of things have gone well or even better than that: Bo, Chapman, Kiermaier, Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Merrifield. Another half-dozen guys have been just okay--not gaping holes or anything. So other than Manoah, it's hard to point one place and say "That's the problem." A bunch of the okays just have to play better, Vladdy and Springer especially, of course. (I haven't watched enough to vouch for this, but a couple of the FAN guys were saying they do a lot of boneheaded stuff on the basepaths.)

Doofus here was advocating that they go out and get Kevin Pillar on the cheap before the season started.

https://www.mlb.com/video/kevin-kiermaier-s-incredible-grab-x3777?q=kiermaier&cp=CMS_FIRST&qt=FREETEXT&p=0

Verlander/Bassitt has the potential to be a great pitcher's duel tonight, but who knows--Bassitt bounces between one extreme or the other.

Figured my post would guarantee a 9-7 game, but instead got exactly what I was hoping for: 1-0 till a Varsho HR in the 9th put it away. It was untouchable Bassitt tonight: 7.2 IP, 3 hits, no walks, 8 Ks. Verlander was great too--Showalter let him finish the 6th with the bases loaded and around 115 pitches. Struck Varsho out to end the inning.

God--haven't even turned the game on yet, and a friend posts on FB about Manoah giving up six runs in the first innings and getting pulled after 38 pitches. We're at one of Yogi's crossroads here, I think.

"first innings"--probably what it felt like watching.

One of Yogi's forks-in-the-road, that should be. One prong say minors, one says bullpen, one says IL.

Watched the first inning on replay:

Mauricio Dubon singles on a line drive to right fielder Cavan Biggio.

Jeremy Pena singles on a bunt ground ball to third baseman Matt Chapman. Mauricio Dubon to 2nd.

Yordan Alvarez singles on a ground ball to right fielder Cavan Biggio, deflected by first baseman Vladimir Guerrero Jr. Mauricio Dubon scores. Jeremy Pena to 2nd.

HOU 1,TOR 0

Alex Bregman flies out to center fielder Kevin Kiermaier. Jeremy Pena to 3rd. 1 out

Kyle Tucker singles on a line drive to left fielder Daulton Varsho. Jeremy Pena scores. Yordan Alvarez to 2nd.

HOU 2,TOR 0

Jose Abreu walks. Yordan Alvarez to 3rd. Kyle Tucker to 2nd.

Corey Julks hits a grand slam (5) to left field. Yordan Alvarez scores. Kyle Tucker scores. Jose Abreu scores.

HOU 6,TOR 0

Yainer Diaz singles on a sharp line drive to center fielder Kevin Kiermaier.

Jake Meyers singles on a sharp line drive to center fielder Kevin Kiermaier. Yainer Diaz to 2nd.

Pitching Change: Jay Jackson replaces Alek Manoah.

Painful. Manoah, as you might guess, looked shell-shocked.

manoah demoted all the way to rookie league, wow

Apparently that’s where the Blue Jays have their pitching lab? Probably a better chance of doing a Halladay on him there.

Wow x 2...One thing I heard somebody here say--it might have been Dan Schulman--was that this isn't like Halladay in that they had to (literally, whoever it was stressed) start at ground zero with Halladay, things like "This is how you hold the baseball." And that that's not going to be the case with Manoah. (Though if you'd seen him last night, you might wonder.)

How far has he fallen? Something I didn't know till today, looking over all the coverage: his WHIP for his first two seasons was the lowest two-season mark for a pitcher since Walter Johnson.

Also, that complex is in Florida, so he’ll be near his family. I don’t care for the persona but I never like to see fount players struggle like the way he was doing. He had clearly gone into his head.

Young not “fount”, lol

Not crazy about his tweeting and all that myself (see comment a few above); I remember thinking at one point, "Jesus, just pitch." But I think most anybody would have felt some sympathy seeing him walk off the mound last night.

What exactly is so complex about the Florida Complex League anyway? Are the ballpark dimensions expressed as logarithms?

Gausman was lights-out again tonight: 7 IP, 13 K, 4 hits, no walks. He's leading the league in innings and strikeouts. McClanahan would almost certainly win the Cy Young today, but it may end up as another of those bWAR/fWAR contests; each one leads one and isn't Top 10 in the other. (I think the bWAR--more traditional--guy still has the advantage, which is McClanahan.)

Things that make you feel old: Homer Bush Jr. (they were talking about him on the radio yesterday) is on his way.

https://gculopes.com/sports/baseball/roster/homer-bush-jr-/10795

Hit .370 in the Western Athletic Conference of the NCAA this year...for which I don't really have any context whatsoever.

At work, haven't had a chance to read this yet. Manoah/Halladay: similarities, differences.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-blue-jays-alek-manoah-roy-halladay-comparisons-hold-any-merit-173412788.html

what on earth

As part of their upcoming Pride Weekend, the #BlueJays plan to have Anthony Bass catch the ceremonial first pitch on Friday.

— Keegan Matheson (@KeeganMatheson) June 8, 2023

I really hesitate to weigh in on this, but wouldn't that be one way to demonstrate some penance? Meaningless if there's a gun to his head (like when a principal forces a kid to write a letter of apology to you), but if sincere, it's something.

It’s not remotely sincere and they should be embarrassed.

Asked Anthony Bass if he’s changed his views on the video:

“The video itself, I took it down. I felt like it was too much of a distraction. I stand by my personal beliefs and everyone is entitled to their personal beliefs, right? But I also mean no harm to any groups of people.”

— Keegan Matheson (@KeeganMatheson) June 8, 2023

Thanks for clearing that up. I can go back to hesitating to weigh in on this.

Yeah, wouldn’t want to make any judgment calls on a current staff member.

On-field-related post--sorry...It'll be huge if they can take this tonight. Between Gausman and Bassitt, and Berrios continuing to pitch pretty well, I'm starting to think they can withstand Manoah's banishment to Siberia. Enough to take a wild-card, anyway.

Not crazy about his tweeting and all that myself (see comment a few above); I remember thinking at one point, "Jesus, just pitch." But I think most anybody would have felt some sympathy seeing him walk off the mound last night.

― clemenza, Tuesday, June 6, 2023 4:16 PM (two days ago)

glad we've discovered the line where you will or will not hesitate to weigh in on social media posting

I find it amusing that I was told, very clearly, not to post about Hall of Fame or statistical-related matters in gyac's Magical Kingdom of Baseball thread, but turning the Jays thread into whatever it is you're turning it into is perfectly okay.

xp ceremonial pitch tweet: I thought this was a joke. It would be about him. a PR event for Bass that would obviously backfire because of the boos that would cloud the whole proceeding and trivialize the message. I really don't think it will actually happen.

Putting aside your childish dig at my thread - which I said already you are welcome in, I just do not care about the HoF at all, which is why I leave those discussions too interested parties - Bass’s conduct is extremely relevant itt. And btw, not a single member of my family follows or knows anything about baseball besides that I like it but they have sent me links about this guy’s behaviour on Twitter because it was that bad that it crossed over from baseball coverage!

The question about what the franchise will tolerate from a reliever especially when the franchise is based in a relatively liberal community like Toronto is an entirely valid one. If this guy was a Mariner I’d be posting in my thread about that.

Then, for the third or fourth time, we'll call a truce. They won tonight, I'm happy, and he won't, in all probability, last the season, maybe not even the week.

thought exercise: a baseball player reposts a video of someone calling jews ‘evil and demonic’ and calling for a boycott of jewish-owned stores. after an outcry, he deletes the post and says that he, a well-traveled and presumably literate man in his thirties, didn’t realize such a thing might be considered ‘hateful’.

he apologizes for any harm he might have caused the bris community, but defends his right to his faith and personal beliefs — which still align with those of the video. sure, the jews killed jesus and regularly drink the blood of christian children, but he regrets that they found his saying so hurtful.

then on jewish community night, the team asks a rabbi to throw a pitch to him.

i mean, bass is who he is. but the team even considering such a thing is just mind-blowing.

Jays are still being very secretive about--still being very what-the-fuck-do-we-do? about tomorrow's starter.

As is my tendency, I presented the most optimistic view of life-without-Manoah above. Just, if not more likely: Kikuchi and Berrios revert to 2022, one of Gausman or Bassitt takes a step back, and a rotating crew of TBDs in the fifth spot. Not pretty.

xp welp nevermind; bass dfa’d

(mitch white reinstated from the IL)

Was just coming here to post that, like the Red Sox thing yesterday, what was the fucking point? Just burning goodwill for what?

I assume he’s not still catching the first pitch

oh that's a relief. i was very bothered by the prospect of having to boycott this team if he caught that ceremonial pitch. I love my Jays, but that's a clear line that cannot be crossed. Good riddance, looking forward to the game.

Suspected they'd go with Mitch White, who just got hammered in 20 innings at Buffalo this year. They're going to have to engineer a trade, I think (quite sure they're very actively trying to do so). I don't know if Biggio or Espinal can net them much. I don't know what they do.

Yeah Mitch is kinda the official 6th man, so i guess they go with him as far as his performance will allow? Their lack of depth everywhere is very exposed.

I guess that 5th spot is more of an opener thing now, and they're looking for 3 or 4 decent innings from White.

I haven't followed Buffalo since Vladdy, but if they had a couple of decent replacement-level bats there, maybe they could package Biggio and Espinal together for a decent pitcher? (I say that having no idea what either's contract status is.) The Jays would lose their versatility, but that'd also be a selling point--and, if given some playing time, either guy could surprise, like Espinal did in 2021 and into 2022.

"On June 9, you'll be playing .563 baseball, four-and-a-half games up on the Red Sox, a game behind the Yankees."

I probably would have said "I'll take that." Tampa playing .700 and the Orioles taking a huge leap forward were not really on my radar.

Premature--still only 20 months removed from one of the three or four greatest Blue Jay seasons ever--but, with Manoah out of the picture for a while, I expect fan and media scrutiny of Vlad will step up. (It's been there all year, but Manoah deflected some of that.)

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/bo-bichette-not-vladimir-guerrero-jr-face-blue-jays-144841338.html

He's four-and-a-half seasons along, and in three-and-a-half of them, his OPS has been between .772 and .818--put aside 2021, and he's been pretty consistent. He's been really good on the road this year (9 HR, .321/.391/.575), but, bizarrely, he hasn't yet hit a HR at Rogers. Still a season-and-half away from free agency, but getting closer.

Trevor Richards gets the start today.

Richards was great, and then--the Domino Theory, I believe it's called--the bullpen coughed up a 3-0 lead in the late innings (including a Correa grand slam). Belt, who after a miserable April has been great the past month, looks like he might be out.

Belt is like that unfortunately. Man’s crocked. I was following him all year and I really wanted him to do well (since they should have let him retire a Giant imo). MLB posted a micd up with Vladdy a couple of weeks back and he named Belt as one of the veterans he’d played with who he considered amazing. It made me really happy for him thriving! Hopefully he’s not out too long.

Definitely turning into my dad. I turned the game off in disgust after the 7th, missed Biggio's home run.

lol

my dad always turned the penguins off when they went down two goals, which, as a-rod will tell you, is the most dangerous lead

I remember in the '92 WS, after the Jays lost the first game, they were down in the middle innings of G2 (I checked the details--down 2-0, tied it 2-2, fell behind again 4-2). My dad gave up, went to bed, and missed Sprague's HR and the Jays winning. I gave him what-for the next day: "How could you leave? It's their first WS ever--how could you miss a minute?"

As I get older, I understand. Disappointment feels worse (and the Jays, in '92, before they won, had come so close so many times the past decade), so you tend to vacate at the first sign of trouble.

As I get older, I understand. Disappointment feels worse

i'd have thought otherwise when i was young, but absolutely

why tho?

It's an interesting question, and I don't know the answer. You've experienced elation, and that's all you want. I lived and died with the Jays from '83 through '93. Now I live with them when they're playing well, and I turn my attention elsewhere when they're not. I go through a much more casual version of that with the Raptors and Leafs. Hardcore Leafs fans like my friend's father, now in his '90s...I can't even fathom what that's like.

Maybe because you have less time left yourself, the idea of using some of it to watch your favourite team lose just doesn't make sense.