things I learned about in baseball this week/how i learned to stop worrying and love baseball

Gyac, you posted a Will Clark clip; I posted about Will Clark. Thermo posted something pertaining to what I posted, I responded, etc. I think that's how ILX works. But by all means, outline some guidelines for posting in this thread and I promise I'll comply.

I don’t give a shit about the HoF. I don’t post in that thread for a reason; stats wanking and that kind of shit bores me to death. People who like that aspect of the game, fill your boots. It personally is the worst aspect of the sport for me.

I think It's magical that you've discovered Will Clark--way to go!

(More the kind of thing you're looking for?)

I think it’s ok for me to comment upon the most joyless aspect of the sport in my own thread.

for what it's worth gotta admit I also avoid all the bwar+ etc etc stuff wrt baseball as well and thought today's posts about mcgriff's hof credentials were misplaced in this thread
xp

I only brought up McGriff in connection to Will Clark. I like this thread, and I chipped in early with some classic-game suggestions, but if this is a strict no-stats/no-HOF zone--and you're not supposed to follow posts wherever they lead--sorry, to me that's just a weird version of what baseball is (and a rather personalized version of how ILX works), and I promise I'll keep clear.

That’s more than ok and I’m sorry for being harsh, it is just as I said a really awful part of the game for me and I avoid the related threads for that reason - but I have very much appreciated your enthusiasm and other contributions here even though we do disagree on a ton of things in baseball as you know!

This is one of my earliest baseball memories--the fake "intentional walk" in the 1972 Series. The A's of that era were an immensely entertaining team.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR0jGrfQCu4

I know I've told my "I helped Will Clark make a putout" story on ILX before but it's been years, so: I went to Mississippi State when Clark, Rafael Palmeiro, Jeff Brantley and Bobby Thigpen were the big stars on the team. In 1985, I was at a home game sitting in the shallow right bleachers not too far past first base. Opposing hitter drives one to the left-center gap, and for some reason I follow the hitter instead of the ball, where he doesn't even come close to the bag rounding first on the way to the standup double. Play is over and everyone's like "welp" and I can't believe nobody caught what happened. I yell "he missed the bag!!! He didn't touch first!!!" and everyone near me in the bleachers turns to look at me. I yell it again, "He didn't touch the bag!!!" Everyone around me starts yelling it too, "he miss the bag, he missed the bag." Pitcher's got the ball but the next batter isn't quite in the box yet. Clark looks over at Ron Polk, the head coach, and Polk shrugs. 1B umpire is stonefaced. Clark steps over to the base, pitcher does the come-set and throw over and the umpire erupts in a big punchout. Crowd goes wild, Clark gives slight glove-wave to the direction where all the yelling was coming from.

My sense is that he was the John Rocker of his day, but man he could rake.

I love this and I’m so glad you posted this again! Re John Rocker, I think there’s probably a lot of truth to that - WC being a friend of his during the playing days. Now he works for the Giants in some capacity and also does a lot of work for various autism charities (including Autism Speaks, ugh), so possibly he may have become better over the years? But he came across as incredibly cocky and arrogant during the playing years, which I think you’d kind of expect from a guy who could hit like that. Was thinking of the part of Moneyball where they flat out say that a good player is one who doesn’t get in his own head and drag himself down and it helps if he’s pretty stupid too. Clark hasn’t ever come across as stupid but there is definitely a tendency among a lot of players to just keep moving and worry about the rest later, and that seemed to be a big part of his makeup afaict? But I guess if you’re going to homer off Nolan Ryan in your first at bat then you’re probably going to be at least somewhat arrogant.

Actually a quick look through his Twitter account follows- he appears to run his own account going by the amount of replies RTed, it seems a relatively shithead free experience? Mostly players from various sports and the odd weird follow like Kenny G or Spongebob? Compared to, oh, idk, Buster Posey making Ben Shapiro one of his 53 accounts followed!

How did I never hear this story before?!:
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/detroit/news/brady-feigl-dna-test-inside-edition-minor-league-baseball/#app"> https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/detroit/news/brady-feigl-dna-test-inside-edition-minor-league-baseball/#app

God dammit

Haha, that’s amazing.

Since I’ve been appreciating Brandon Belt this week, about this at bat, and pitcher-batter duels in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6FTg1XwLfg

When I started watching the postseason a few months back, this was one of my favourite things to watch early on. Trying to get a guy out who’s clinging to the plate like a flea on the underside of a cat. This one is the current record, with 21 pitches, and it’s brutal. You can feel the pitcher’s frustration. He had Belt on two strikes after three pitches. Belt digs his heels in, fouls off pitch after pitch. Hits the full count and it just keeps going. 14 minutes of this, and it ends with an out. A loss? Any time a single at bat drives a pitcher into the stressful inning zone is a win, and the Giants did go on to win that game. And Belt ended up scoring two runs later.

I was actually at that game in Anaheim. It was the top of the first so my friends and I were grabbing a beer. I several times looked out and said to myself, Belt is still up? It's great to hear the audio of that at bat. The Giants were the visitors but the crowd started getting into it as it lasted about 20 minutes if I remember correctly.

I'm going to go back and read this thread as it seems like there are some good nuggets in here.

A friend told me this story last night. It's a classic.

Another McCarthy, Mike, the former head of MSG Network and the new GM of Cubs telecasts, this week met with one of his TV analysts, former Cubs first baseman Mark Grace. Grace told him this story:

Circa 1991, the Cubs were in Cincinnati, Rick Sutcliffe pitching for Chicago. Paul O’Neill, then with the Reds, smashed a long home run. In Cincy, home-team homers were followed by fireworks, thus Boom! Bang! Flash! Boom!

The next batter, Eric Davis, blasted one, too. Boom! Bang! Flash! Boom!

Out of the dugout walked pitching coach Billy Connors. As he neared the mound, Sutcliffe protested, hollering to Connors to turn around. He continued to plead with Connors that he has it under control, not to yank him.

When Connors reached the mound, he soothed Sutcliffe with, “I’m not taking you out, Rick. I just wanna give that fireworks guy a chance to reload.”

https://nypost.com/2020/02/27/rick-sutcliffe-once-pitched-himself-into-fireworks-hilarity/

hahahaha

xp incredible!

gyac I think it’s cool that you got onto the 2010s Giants because they were such a weird frickin outlier (band of misfits indeed) and I get the sense that those teams don’t get the same “respect” as even like the ‘11 cardinals or something. I don’t really care about that respect stuff though, I’m more of a Kruk and Kuip / Jon Miller fan than a Giants fan, anyway.

Don't forget about David Braxton Flemming. Giants fans are spoiled as they are some of the best broadcasters in the business.

They are a weird crew and I do love the broadcasters a lot. “Grab some pine, meat!” lives in my memory probably forever. Jon Miller obvs classic. Colour commentary isn’t really a thing this side of the Atlantic, so I was first surprised and then delighted by it. I was watching an old Dodgers game that had Vin Scully commentating on and he started off the game remarking that it was “Hispanic Heritage Day”. The Dodgers had started with Ricky Nolasco on the mound. The game went badly for him and he coughed up several runs and Don Mattingly came out to take the ball from him. Vin remarked “Don Mattingly has decided, Hispanic Heritage Day or not, it is time to get Ricky Nolasco out of there.”

I’ve never heard anything like the commentary in my life. It’s great.

Jon Miller is phenomenal. So gentle.

yes. he made joe morgan endurable. no mean feat.

https://i.postimg.cc/L6Nbvw8P/759-C83-D6-0-E0-C-49-DB-9861-9-C4-FD167643-D.png

lol

best swing of all time obv

This was quoted in this pretty good oral history.

Sports Illustrated once described Clark’s swing as “the sweetest swing anyone had ever seen, an uppercut with a long, loopy follow-through that made it seem as if was wielding a buggy whip instead of a 32-ounce bat.”

Candy Maldonado, teammate: Yeah, he’s the only man in the world whose answering machine is “The Thrill is gone.” Oh, that hillbilly!

Obsessed with this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtImIqR5neU

And I really should have included this too, the tongue is just too much

2023 Giants FanFest on February 4 is almost here!

Let’s throw it back to 2019, when we got Buster Posey to give his best Bruce Bochy impression 😂 pic.twitter.com/F1fn2HUn8b

— KNBR (@KNBR) January 26, 2023

I will eventually get back to reading & writing about stuff but atm thread is kind of this stuff

Spahn & Sain & delay for rain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cByahfjo6U

this is a classic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-rq-9mYm0

I saw that! I think he might have mentioned it in Curveball?! I need to upload this pie chart I saw about why Zito lost games really quick…

https://i.postimg.cc/RhMChV5p/B12-DFF2-A-0-FFE-49-E8-A313-DE5044397-C90.png

Iirc: Huddyed - pitched well but fucked over by the defence
Cained - no explanation needed
Zitoed - the quality of being Barry Zito and being basically a law unto himself

I really like Zito even though I mock him all the time.

Atm watching videos of runners jumping over the catcher to score, of which this is obviously the greatest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3BDn2K6sgo

Watched some more brawls, surely no brawl has a better memorial tshirt than this?
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bBgAAOSwhgZjP4fn/s-l1600.jpg

Was reading this article about clubhouse cancers and found my way to this Athletic article about Joan Ryan’s 2020 book, Intangibles: Unlocking the Science and Soul of Team Chemistry.

I read and loved Ryan’s Little Girls in Pretty Boxes about fifteen years ago, long before I started reading her SF Chronicle work about the Giants. So I knew her behind the scenes work was great already.

In this book, which kind of has an eyerolly business book title and sometimes - only sometimes, I stress - vibe, she investigates theories of what makes a successful clubhouse work. What personalities they need, who fulfils those roles, and even drops in some science about it all. I’m only partway through this book but her sources and stories are incredible. She has a whole chapter about Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent.

Anyway I need to actually finish and read this book and I’ll review it in the book thread as before. But if what I’ve described here is at all of interest to you, consider this:

The concept of conventional team chemistry is anathema to Kent’s individualistic orientation to the world. “I’m not a friendly person. I don’t really like people that much. Because I’m self-satisfied. I’m self-motivated. I don’t dance. I wasn’t a part of a fraternity. I don’t cheer when I go to sporting events. I don’t celebrate birthdays and anniversaries even though my wife kills me when I don’t. Friends don’t motivate me. Friends don’t make me better, personally. Doesn’t fuel me.” He conceded that feeling comfortable in a clubhouse and having relationships with teammates probably affect the performance of “people who aren’t self-motivated and (are)a little bit weak.”

“And then there are guys who are bad motivators. They think they’re creating chemistry but really [they’re] making it worse. When they try to challenge you as a person or your work ethic or ‘this is the way the game’s supposed to be played.’ You look at him and think, ‘Who in the hell made you God? You’re not even the number one player on the team.’” I asked if he was referring to Kent. “Jeff Kent wasn’t like that! Jeff Kent was never like that!” he said, his voice rising. “Folks can say whatever the hell they want to say about that guy and me. We were both A-type-personality players. We didn’t hang out. I didn’t care what he was doing. You have players who care what another person’s doing in the locker room. It’s stupid. It’s hard enough to prepare yourself to be good — why do you care what that dude is doing over there? Why do you care Jeff Kent is over there looking at properties for his hunting places? Who gives a crap? “When it came to game time, what name would you want on the back of the uniform of the guy playing second base? I want Jeff Kent. Because he’s a ballplayer. When it comes to guts, someone who goes out there to do his job — they can say whatever they want about Jeff Kent, they can say whatever they want about Barry Bonds — when it came to who they want to play in left field, who they want to play at second base, it would be Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent.”

One day in the clubhouse at the end of August, Burrell found Huff and together they ushered Lincecum into the small office. The superstar pitcher had lost all five of his starts that month. The Giants had slipped six games out of first place. Lincecum didn’t seem to be listening to his coaches or manager Bruce Bochy, and he balked at suggestions that he improve his workout routine. He had been so spectacularly successful his entire life that he seemed paralyzed by failure. “Timmy, man, I know you’re struggling, bro,” Burrell said, leaning forward in his chair, locking eyes with the young pitcher. “I know this is hard for you. But we need you, Bud, we need you.” Huff mostly listened. Burrell was pointed but loving. “Look, Timmy, you’re our rock. If we don’t have you, we’re dead. We’re dead.” “As I’m watching Timmy,” Huff told me later, “his head starts coming up, the chin’s coming up, the chest is coming out a little bit more. You could see in his facial expression, in his eyes, that somebody had belief in him. He’s 0 and 5. He’s getting bad press. Everybody’s on him. And then something was triggered inside of him. You could see it. I’m sitting there in awe watching and listening to this. And no shit, the very next start against Colorado, on September first, he shoved it up Colorado’s ass.”

Over time, he began to feel an ease he hadn’t known since, well, maybe ever. He became more open to the everyday signals of trust and became more trusting, more accepting, and less self-centered in return. His life outside of baseball was a mess — he was still drinking and popping Adderall, and his marriage was still crumbling — but with his teammates he could be the person his teammates seemed to think he was. He began arriving at the park early and leaving late. He rediscovered his power at the plate and led the team in doubles, triples, and home runs. Most surprising, he found teammates gravitating to him for advice or a laugh, as if he were a leader. “They’d ask me about things,” he said, “and that had never happened to me in my life.”

wow thx for that gyac. those excerpts are great!! gotta admit i kinda warm to jeff kent after reading that as my personality skews that way somewhat (minus the athletic talent or irl success).

also your titling of another thread has had depeche mode stuck in my head for a week now. could be worse.

Jeff Kent actually comes off a lot better than that excerpt suggests, I was laughing so much at it when he’s like I DON’T DANCE OR CELEBRATE BIRTHDAYS

This followed right after:

I shared a comment from a player who said teammates lifted his performance in ways he couldn’t do for himself. “Can he quantify it?” Kent asked. “No,” I said. “Does that mean the effect isn’t real?” He said maybe for highly emotional players, it’s real. “And even if it’s real,” he said, “if you can’t quantify it. …” I interrupted. “OK, you say you love your wife. But you can’t measure it, right? So how do you know it’s real?” “Because I’ll take a bullet for her.” “And there’s the baseball equivalent of that, right?” The toothpick bobbed. “Sure. I’d take a bullet for a guy on the mound whether I like him or hate him,” he said. He smiled. “Yeah, I get your point.” If his willingness to take a bullet for his wife means his love is real, then his willingness to do the same for a teammate means that something deep and even profound existed between him and his teammates. Maybe even between him and Bonds. I could almost see the wheels turning in Kent’s head. He was thinking this through.

the show i can remember was back in the day on ch4 or 5 where they used to show a game on weds nights presented by i think tommy boyd? and a canadian called todd macklin. (there must of been a show prior to this i guess because i think my rooting for atlanta predated the show. i was definitely following them for a few post season disappointments, blowing a 2-0 lead to the yankees etc before they finally got the ring by beating cleveland).

tbh not sure i'd call myself a proper fan cos i find regular season games a really hard slog to sit through. but post season baseball incredible, but even then i could only really enjoy games if i recorded them and could skip adverts, pitching changes etc havent been to america for 25 years or so but last time i did i saw a couple of spring season games and a minor league game. they were okay but didn't find the in person experience anywhere near as compelling as the in person experience of watching football which is the only other sport i've seen live regularly. also when on holiday in the US i really enjoyed listening to games on the radio.

my peak fandom years were definitely the maddux/smoltz era. tho i also loved the theo epstein red sox years. my interest tailed off a bit post bonds(loved watching him play) and a bit more post ichiro.

Posting this image here in order to say hi to roxymuzak if she drops in.
Also importantly, what is going on here
https://64.media.tumblr.com/3be844cc831cfbc3fa7dccf736de4ac5/tumblr_n4dd45hsGW1rjr6zho1_500.gif

tbh not sure i'd call myself a proper fan cos i find regular season games a really hard slog to sit through. but post season baseball incredible, but even then i could only really enjoy games if i recorded them and could skip adverts

i think that is just timmy tim’s hot breath lighting up a chilly april afternoon tbf

Why isn’t Buster’s though

Reading about ex-Giant Robby Thompson and his glove, specifically this on his Wikipedia page:

Thompson was known for the well-used baseball glove with which he played for almost his entire career.[36] He was offended when the San Francisco Chronicle printed a story titled, "Thompson's Ugly, Pathetic Glove is a Gem."

In a 1990 Sports Illustrated article on mitts titled (as many in the genre are) "Glove Story," former player and manager Phil Garner went so far as to say, "Players become sexually attached to their glove," an assertion for which we offer no proof, or even comment.

Now, mind you, not all players are so fanatical about their gloves. The old Twins shortstop, Zoilo Versalles, used to throw his away after each error (eventually alienating his glove company so much he had to go to sporting-goods stores to replenish his supply).

Another superb defender, Omar Vizquel, had such uncharacteristic fielding problems early this season that his teammates took it upon themselves to "sacrifice" the offending glove, which Omar had borrowed from teammate Zach Sorensen. In a scene inspired by the movie "Major League," they constructed an altar containing the glove, a bottle of wine, a hanging roast chicken, a Buddha-like figure, 14 candles, incense, two rosaries and a baseball with "the curse is killed" written on it.

In the 19th century, however, the use of a glove was considered the province of weaklings.

"Padding hands like that to prevent injuries or not feel pain was an unmanly act,"

I have spoken with a number of English cricket fans who are still on that gloves-are-unmanly train. Not sure they realise how hard baseballs are thrown in the modern game. It's a trip checking out really old gloves though. A friend of my dad's has one from ca 1945 or so and it really is like an oversized leather glove that you might use for garden chores. No webbing.

The lore about how to break in a glove is extensive.. another rabbit hole for you some time. These days Rawlings et al will "pre break in" the gloves to an extent and there's a whole science/art to it. Check out this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i_x0neoseU

My English cricket fan went HUH?????? when I read this out to him, we’re going to need some more info on this pls

On what? I'm telling you, English people I know have scoffed at gloves in baseball, like it's a sissy affectation

Really?! My better half disputes that!

The term dick in the spread

oh no

used to have a real fascination with the incredibly battered and pine tar besmeared batting helmets that some hitters would wear year after year. i seem to recall biggio was one but then again I could be mistaken cos he was just generally raggedy and always put me in mind of pigpen from peanuts.