World Series 2022 -- Houston Astros vs Philadelphia Phillies

You want me to agree with every last change in the game, with every bit of conventional wisdom as it exists in 2022, and if I don't, I'm Old Hoss Radbourn.

evidently you should just watch reggie on youtube, as nothing will ever measure up to it

jeez

nah I think Clem is right, no-hitters are a weird statistical anomaly and when they happen it's fun it's more fun for the player himself than the team. I mean you forever get to be the answer to some trivia question which is kinda the whole point of baseball. that said this was definitely cool to watch especially since non-combined no-hitters may not actually happen again

fwiw i don't want you to agree with every bit of conventional wisdom in 2022! but also i don't want you to be all like 'this particular circumstance, however rare, is inadequate'

you could have just been 'well, whatever' but instead you chose to challenge everyone else's idea of noteworthiness

as nothing will ever measure up to it

Right--it's not like I got caught up in Judge going for 62 or anything.

I think my first post after the game was exactly "well, whatever," and expressed very subjectively. I have no idea what you're talking about.

"Glad I saw most of it, but I just can't get excited about combined no-hitters. And I'm not at all saying they should have left Vázquez in--100 pitches, not even a question. It just doesn't mean anything to me."

Please explain to me how that post is challenging "everyone else's idea of noteworthiness."

idk why having an opinion like "no-hitter by one pitcher > no-hitter by pitching staff" is controversial.

anyway the astros won and dusty is a genius so this is all beside the point

until he starts mccullers in game seven

xp how many no-hitters, of any kind, have happened in the world series

why, upon one of the latter happening, would one immediately feel the need to denigrate it as 'uninteresting'

Do you understand the difference between expressing a personal opinion--"I just can't get excited," "It just doesn't mean anything to me"--and some blanket statement you seem to think I made and didn't about the game being "uninteresting"?

I mean, Jesus fuck, my first six words were "Glad I saw most of it..."

no hitters were already a team effort anyway

just ask pedro martinez who pitched 9 perfect innings and yet has not been credited for one

in this day of advanced metrics, # times through a lineup, reasonable bullpen management, etc. a combined no-hitter just doesn't have that shock to me. i think the narrative of the phillies belting 5 homers off a starting pitcher and then getting their asses handed to them the next game is a better story.

obviously because you were waiting for a marginal hit to be called an error (j/k)

mmm tell me more about 'that shock' and 'better stories'

fuckin shams-level shit

i sincerely like clemenza; i just think he's wrong

gtfo with that bacon-flavored pap

To me, this isn't all that complicated. CG no hitters are cool and awesome -- as we all know, it's happened only twice in the playoffs and once in the WS. Is a combined no hitter just as cool and awesome? Obviously not ... but it's still pretty great! Unlike three combined team HR's, a combined no-hitter in the WS is rare and historic! Is it as historic as Don Larsen's perfect game? No way -- but's it's still historic!

in a way it’s really christian vasquez’ no

whoops hit send too soon

it’s vasquez’s no-hitter - he was the constant

it’s historic and amazing. slightly more likely in an era of max effort one-inning guys? of course. but on the biggest stage, throwing fastballs for six innings to a team that absolutely launches the ball? hey it’s no AL regular season home run record - what could be, really - but extremely, extremely impressive nonetheless. wish i could have stayed awake! (here in the UK it was 1:30am in the 5th when i finally conked out)

We're making the same mistake! I called him Vázquez because (I think) I've got Javier Vázquez on the brain. You're calling him Christian Vázquez. It's Christian Javier.

i’m talking about Houston’s catcher :)

Ah, yeah, "the constant"--that's how fouled up I am. (That might have been the cause of my initial confusion.)

There is, I think, a pretty nuanced look by Posnanski at two ways to view last night's game. It's not shareable, and I'm glad--I'd be enmeshed in another two-day back-and-forth. One part did make laugh, though, and might make mookieproof laugh too (he's describing a friend who tweeted him last night)

"He was actually in the crowd the night that Reggie Jackson hit three home runs in a World Series game. It remains one of his most cherished sports memories."

Evidently a few us are still stuck back there.

Sheehan:

It’s fair to hold combined no-hitters apart a bit, as no-hitters are more individual accomplishments than team ones. When that combined no-hitter happens with a team down 2-1 in the World Series, though, it’s possible to be too jaded. It was a no-hitter in the World Series! That’s happened exactly once, 66 years ago. It was a no-hitter in the postseason! That’s happened one other time, 12 years ago. I don’t care if the Astros used all 38 pitchers they’re carrying and the Phillies went up there with souvenir bats, that’s a big moment, that’s an incredible accomplishment.

That the Phillies are tied 2-2 in this Series is remarkable when you consider that everyone figured their path to a victory was through the right arms of Aaron Nola and Zack Wheeler. Through four games, the two of them have allowed 13 of the 15 runs the Phillies have conceded, they have an 8.10 ERA in 13 2/3 innings, and neither has seen the sixth inning.

The ugly reality of the expanded-playoffs era is that to history, October matters more than the six months that precede it. All-time greats have had their career accomplishments ignored in favor of a listing of playoff failures. Others we remember as legends because they got the big hit, the big strikeout, the big double play. Barry Bonds over here, David Ortiz over there. Alex Rodriguez over here, Derek Jeter over there. No stats, just vibes.

Tonight, Justin Verlander’s career gets sorted, for good, into one of those groups.

I don't know if Bonds is exactly over there: some struggles with the Pirates, historic Series with the Giants, marred by the finish. Mixed bag.

"Too jaded"--I could counter that with some of Posnanski's column today, but I'm trying hard not to.

(Sheehan's exclamation marks are not working their magic on me.)

Lifetime postseason OPS:

Derek Jeter: .838
Alex Rodriguez: .822

Who is here and who is there exactly?

I'm not even sure what the point is with Verlander either. He almost single-handedly pitched the Tigers past the A's in two division series. He was the MVP of the 2017 ALCS. He's been bad in the WS, but he's hardly been a postseason bust during his career.

Drifted off during the fifth.

Has Trumplander's effort been called gutsy yet?

Looks like Verlander is going to get that monkey off his back after all

oooo they comin

Or maybe not, who knows at this point. This has been a good game

it's Schwarbin' time

What an out

Was really hoping the Phillies would tie it up thre

Great play...this should be a fun bottom of the ninth.

Didn't get home till the bottom of the fifth, so I missed the first half. Am I reading correctly that Verlander worked his way out of a couple of jams? Starting pitchers sometimes do that?

Great play, I thought it was gone

oh my god so close

Kissinger needs to die right now so Castellanos hits this out of the park

...

Damn

Man, that was a catch.

The Great Mancini

Where is Karl Malone? This thread needs some levity that even my old-man wrong opinions cannot provide.

can’t speak for KM but there is something about your team being bounced from the playoffs prematurely that makes me a bit more distant come World Series time. It’s a long haul until the re-start.