aaron judge needs his own thread

let us at least get to 82 wins first before we have to sacrifice ourselves to the legend of the One True Yankee

Fair enough--getting over .500 would be important to a surprise team. I probably assumed without thinking about it that they were already there.

But even as a percentage move, walking the leadoff batter when you're down four runs seems very iffy. (And believe me, the Jays were pulling exactly the same kind of stuff.)

well brandon hyde does also just strike me as the kind of manager who would view it as a personal failure if 62 was hit off his team

All the walks have probably kept him in the Triple Crown picture. Bogarts has dropped to .307; Judge is a couple of points behind Arraez. He's unlikely to have one of those 0-4 or 0-5 nights that could effectively end any chance; two walks a night, then he either goes 0-2 or 1-2. He needs to sneak in a three-hit game or two on a night he gets five PA.

i just want never to hear about roger maris jr. ever again

in their last 20 games, Judge and Pujols have both hit 6 HRs

or wait, actually Pujols hit one today, so make that 7-6 Pujols. take that Aaron Judge!

If I'm the Rangers manager, I'm gathering my pitchers together and summoning the voice of Casey Stengel: "You need to give this fella a chance--I want you pitchin' to him."

they should pitch however they think will best win them the game. no one should bow to the yankees

I don't see it as bowing to the Yankees--I'd say the same with anybody on any team. I'm not saying groove one, just that the games are meaningless, give the guy a chance; challenge him.

rather than try to win the game? okay

Pitching to someone means you're not trying to win the game? These guys are all professional baseball players, right? Pitchers included? Time and again the past two weeks teams have set up multi-run Yankee innings by needlessly walking Judge when either no one was on or there was a runner on first. I really and truly don't see where you're coming from. Texas is 66-92 right now. They're going to pull out all the strategic stops, stupid ones included, so they can what--finish 68-94?

If Judge gets all of six AB in the next four games, I see a sport pointlessly shooting itself in the foot--par for the course when it comes to baseball.

wait you think pitchers are self-defeatingly refusing to give judge balls to hit? out of like, malice?

what i think is that judge, like all truly fearsome sluggers before him, rattles pitchers who have to face him to the point where they can barely think. ruth and bonds were both consistent walk leaders. not because pitchers were intentionally shooting themselves in the foot. but because they were so good pitchers were scared to put it down the middle. it’s judge’s skill that provokes the walks. which as you have noted, are productive - so… if he’s sparking rallies then… wgaf?

i haven't watched any of the recent games. i assume since the rest of the lineup is struggling, opposing teams are happy to pitch around judge

i'm not sure if or how it affects things, but i don't the yankees think of these games as meaningless. they made the playoffs, sure, but everyone knows they've sucked badly in the second half. surely they are trying to win a few games and try to get some momentum heading into the playoffs (? maybe not)

maybe i just don't understand what "pitching to someone" means, but i watched most of the blue jays/yankees games people on here were complaining about recently, and i did not see pitchers trying to pitch around judge. they were trying to hit the edges of the zone and sometimes missing, but it wasn't fear-based, it was trying to avoid leaving a pitch in the middle of the zone where he could clobber it. judge has clearly been pushing too hard for the past week or two - he probably needs a break tbh.

Possibly Judge is just freezing up a bit, and waiting for that perfect pitch and is pressing, but I think he’ll get one or two more yet.

We didn't see the same AB then. I mostly saw pitchers giving him one or two pitches per AB, the rest not even close. Anyway, I'd be interested if these answers would be the same if it were your favourite player on your favourite team.

Could be just a situation where a pitcher doesn’t want to be posterized as it were. And the pitchers might be a little nervous in that respect too. Hard to say. I don’t think there’s a low key conspiracy.

Orioles took 2 out of 3 from the Yankees after playing pretty dismal ball against them all year, so I'm not gonna second-guess Hyde here; I promise you, Orioles fans care about these games when we're 50-100 and we care about these games when we're having a winning season, like now. Having watched this team all year I can tell you for sure that our pitchers losing the strike zone is in no way restricted to Aaron Judge.

I should say -- took 2 out of 3 by holding the Yankees to 2 runs in the 2 wins, so yes despite Voth's disaster of a start in the middle game I think the Orioles were pitching the Yankees the way a team that wanted to beat the Yankees would pitch them.

I looked at all the games since Judge tied the record in Pittsburgh (meaning last game of the Pirates series, then Boston/Toronto/Baltimore. (He didn't walk in the second Boston game.) Counting only runs scored after Judge walks:

Pitt - 1 walk, 2 runs

Bos - 3 walks 0 runs
Bos - 1 walk, 1 run
Bos - 1 walk, 0 runs

Tor - 2 walks, 0 runs
Tor - 4 walks, 3 runs
Tor - 1 walk, 3 runs

Bal - 2 walks, 0 runs
Bal - 2 walks, 4 runs
Bal - 1 walk, 1 run

You can decide for yourself whether whatever it is they're doing is working: 10 games, 18 different innings, 14 runs. He also was hit by a pitch in one of the Baltimore games; three runs scored after the HBP, which would make it 17 runs in 19 innings of giving him first base.

I'm sure everyone on this board, based on a mountain of evidence, would agree that the IBB is not a good strategic move except in extreme cases, like the one extra-inning game against the Jays. I find it curious how if teams don't flash four fingers, but kinda-sorta IBB him anyway, it's suddenly a good strategy.

(That should read since he hit #60 in Pittsburgh.)

Could be just a situation where a pitcher doesn’t want to be posterized as it were.

A few of you--not sure if omar was one of them--spent a couple of days arguing that the A.L. record was no big deal, which, if you're right (and again, I disagree), would seem to guarantee the pitcher is quickly forgotten.

I was thinking about this today, and I think in general the long-lasting infamy of pitchers who give up iconic HR is overstated. I remember that Al Downing gave up Aaron's 715th (and that Tom House caught it)--I was young, and that was a big one. I of course remember that Mitch Williams gave up Carter's HR, that Sam Dyson gave up Bautista's, and that Ubaldo Jiminez gave up Encarnacion's (though I did have to double-check his name). What I remember even more is who didn't give up Encarnacion's: Zach Britton.

Pitchers I don't remember: McGwire's 62nd, Sosa's 62nd, McGwire's 70th, Bonds' 71st, Bonds' 73rd, Bonds' 756th, Bonds' 762nd. I'm a little embarrassed to say that I don't remember who gave up Fisk's Game 6 HR, ditto Bucky Dent's.

jesus christ it’s not difficult, pitchers nibble against judge because he’s god-like this year, they miss a lot, end of story. it’s not a “strategy” or a conspiracy!

First 144 games, 94 walks; next 10 games, 17 walks. Don't think I ever used the word "conspiracy," but if you don't detect any kind of a change there...

Maybe the pitchers should conspire; the Texas pitchers and all the other pitchers can have a meeting before this next series to discuss their top-secret strategies that have been getting Judge out in 69% of his AB over the season.

And again, my bigger question: intentional, not intentional, nibbling, whatever--is this working? When they were walking Judge much less frequently, and he was hitting a ton of HR, were the Yankees scoring at a rate of 17 runs in 19 innings?

And if it isn't working, would it maybe a good idea to walk him less frequently?

clemenza. if they throw ball over plate more judge hit ball go far. if miss on heart of plate judge still hit ball go far. pitcher try no throw over heart of plate! maybe judge at this stage season more fearsome than early on! maybe reputation force weakness, error, who know! nothing "work" against hitter like judge! only less bad outcome!

If they were getting a, uh, less bad outcome, I might agree. You refuse to address that the outcome they're getting since #60 is terrible.

I know that your stubborness about this has absolutely nothing to do with you being a Red Sox fan, and that if it were Rafael Devers instead of Judge, you'd be every bit as understanding.

I wish I could call up that lead-off AB against Baltimore the other night on YouTube, the one I posted about earlier. One pitch was what you call nibbling--it was a good pitch, and Judge fouled it off. The other four pitches Bo Bichette wouldn't have swung at.

clemenza! they are not TRYING - by and large - to walk him! it's not a strategy! he's just forcing them to make borderline pitches that they're missing! do you realise how much more of a compliment that is to your boy than the idea that pitchers are adopting a "strategy" en masse of walking judge that is backfiring on them ??

Impasse--let's drop it. I keep saying the same thing: that most of the walks I've seen amounted to "I'll throw you a borderline strike mid-count, maybe two, and then I'm going to essentially intentionally walk you." You see something different: you see crafty pitchers battling Judge, refusing to give in, and if they walk him to lead off an inning, and two runs score, well, at least he didn't homer.

We're just seeing something different.

I wish I could call up that lead-off AB against Baltimore the other night on YouTube, the one I posted about earlier.

was it one of these? these are the walks (from the last three games against the O's:

https://i.imgur.com/Wzm0tcM.png
https://i.imgur.com/1Ry5qx7.png
https://i.imgur.com/O62Bw8L.png
https://i.imgur.com/8fREqdI.png

Thanks for looking that up. Went back to my description and checked the game log; it would be the Spencer Watkins. To me, that's an IBB without four fingers: one nibble, four balls that aren't close. The Kyle Bradish AB is better, but still, three of those pitches aren't close. The other two AB, no problem.

All told, 22 pitches, 5 tough strikes/great pitches, 2 very hittable strikes. And, yes, I will point out again: the Yankees were up 4-0 in the 7th when Spencer Watkins walked him. You give up that 5th run--and they gave up four--you've essentially lost the game. That's just stupid baseball.

Made a mad dash to the TV after that post when I remembered I could watch the Yankee game. "Jesus, don't tell me I missed #62 arguing about #62 on the internet."

I’m not suggesting pitchers are worried about long lasting infamy as much as maybe they simply don’t want to be the guy to give up #62 and they erring on the side of giving him tough pitches. I also don’t think a walk strategy would work (and I don’t think it’s a strategy really), but if it was, as we’ve seen with managers over the years they don’t make the best decisions a lot of the time.

i haven't seen any of the recent games, but i agree that pitchers aren't having much success against Judge lately. since September 1, he's hitting .393/.556/.820, .550 wOBA, 272 wRC+. he's walked in 26.4% of his PAs. also, importantly, his BABIP is .510, which means that when he gets pitched close enough to the zone to make contact, he's still getting tons of hits.

in other words, he's playing like barry bonds in the early 2000s, when he got walked a billion times.

i think the thought that pitchers are simply pitching around him to avoid getting punished -- with poor results, as you've noted -- makes a lot more sense if you keep the assumption that the opposing teams are still trying to do everything they can to win, even if they're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. there are a number of reasons that a player/team would still want to do everything possible to win, ranging from psychological (competitiveness) to financial (their stats are correlated to how much money they make).

"Jesus, don't tell me I missed #62 arguing about #62 on the internet."

lol, this would be a very 2022 kind of event too

As we thrash around in this unknowable gray area, some crystalline logic from the Yankees announcer: "We're all waiting for #62...No one's waited longer than Aaron Judge. He wants it--and he wants it before this season's over."

That was weird: Gonzalez HR, Judge strikes out, Stanton HR.

Kudos to Texas--they've pitched to Judge all night. 1-4, checked-swing single, lined into a DP.

They took out Severino after 7 with a no-hitter/near-perfect game; almost 100 pitches, only his third start since July.

Michael Kay is a legendary bozo

Doubt creeping in for the first time. If he doesn't hit one in tomorrow's double-header, and it comes down to Wednesday, I hope the Rangers start Charlie Hough.

i didn't realize people felt so strongly about the AL home run record

No one does. Just me, plus the 35,000 people who came out see if Texas could win their 67th game, plus all the people in Toronto and Baltimore (probably not Boston) booing every ball. No one else.

and certainly not me, that went to NY to try and see it! (and also Jamie XX) (and also see an old friend)

(gulp) I guess this was meant to happen on the last day of the season, just like it did with Maris.

there's another game tonight, right? + 1 more tomorrow