shohei ohtani alert

I never knew that--for one season, anyway--Fergie Jenkins was such a good hitter. In 1971, the year he won his Cy (and put up a 10.1 bWAR), he had a slash line of .243/.282/.478, hit six HR, and knocked in 20. There are--according to a graphic on FB today--nine pitchers with 20 wins and 20 RBI in the same season, and Jenkins is the only one later than 1948 (Bob Lemon). That'll be a hard one for Ohtani to match.

he did manage to be the first to win 10 and hit 30 HRs in the same season

i was looking at greg maddux's stats again, the other day. he only touched 20 wins twice, both in the early 90s, despite having an extraordinarily consistent, excellent career featuring a bunch of braves teams that were good throughout the 90s

ohtani has 11 stolen bases, and 9 times caught stealing this year

This is a pro-Ohtani MVP piece, making the case that WAR can't adequately capture his value:

https://www.mlb.com/news/shohei-ohtani-mvp-race-value-by-war

It does, though, in point #4, get at something I was clumsily trying to explain last year (not sure if I posted about it here; I'd talk about it with friends): that his two-wayness can also present a problem for his manager in having to make a lot of other decisions that other managers don't have to. Basically, he becomes the primary focus you have to work around at all times.

This is a small cost for a huge return--I realize that! But I think it's part of the whole picture.

I don't really get the argument. Did people say that about David Ortiz or Edgar Martinez or other outstanding DHs who rarely took the field?

He so happens to be on the same roster as one of the best players ever, who has battled some serious injuries the past few years and could use some "DH rest". But Ohtani would be the best hitter on two thirds of all other MLB clubs. Why wouldn't you want to get him as many at bats as possible?

yeah, agreed. the same "problem" that ohtani causes (not being able to use the DH to give other position players rest) is the same one that any team with a good DH has to confront

in some places it's called "a good problem to have"

also, gotta say, until this season, not having a dedicated spot (DH) to rotate tiring position players into was the lot of ...every single national league manager of the last century+

fwiw i think judge will win the mvp and it won't be particularly close

suspect ohtani will have some more seasons of being the runaway WAR leader like last year, so might as well let someone else have a turn this year while you can justify it

judge is getting near 10.0 fWAR, also, just scanning the list of all-time single season HR records, and it's all sosa, mcgwire, bonds. i try not to be too puritanical about but in the same way that i wanted pujols to get ahead of a-rod, it will pretty cool for a non ped player to hit 60+ HRs (please judge and pujols, don't let me down via news in the future)

I don’t know why, but I feel like being a top hitter and a top pitcher can’t go on for very long. I can’t rationalize it, he’s obviously insanely talented…. Maybe it was his rocky start to pitching in the majors? I hope he keeps doing this for a very long time, but the deep recesses of my brain are like “literally impossible.”

cc otm

I wonder what it’d do for ohtani’s WAR if he played right field on his non-pitching days instead of DH.

would depend on how badly he sucked out there

I’m sure he’d be above average. he’s a great athlete

he’d throw some people out, it’d be sick

i hate the city connect jerseys in general but the angels one should become their primary

no hitting the As through 7

he's just doing this to spite clemenza

not quite spiteful enough, i guess

He’ll just have to be content with being a more accurate comparison to Babe Ruth I guess.

Clemenza's a fan! (Say that in a Bob Dole voice.) My objection--still is--was more to mlb.com giving him screaming headlines every time he picked up a fork--specifically for accomplishments that weren't especially significant once you have already established he's a two-way player and will do a variety of things that are a by-product of that.

OHTANI CHARTS NEW TERRITORY!!! And then you'd read on to find out he was the first player to hit a double and strike out the side in the same game since x (almost always Ruth).

Seeing him pitch against the Jays this summer helped open my eyes--love his motion. And he's going be on the shortlist of greatest seasons ever by an MVP runner-up, I assume.

he needed 9 innings to qualify for the ERA title (apparently would have been the first player to ever qualify both as a pitcher and a hitter?) and pitched 8…

Two way players being so common these days ofc

My objection--still is--was more to ilxor.com giving him screaming headlines every time he picked up a fork--specifically for accomplishments that weren't especially significant once you have already established he's a two-way player guy who hits runs and will occasionally hit runs do a variety of things that are a by-product of that.

This is obvs not entirely serious… but I don’t get how the guy doing shit that is extraordinary is the one overhyped.

Because they were hyping things that weren't always extraordinary. Some of the things they were hyping were bound to happen the second his name was penciled into the lineup. Quirk of mine--really not a big deal.

A perfect example is the one I posted earlier in this thread:

"Hitting third and making his first start on the mound at Fenway Park, Ohtani became the first starting pitcher to bat in one of the top four spots in a game at the historic ballpark since Babe Ruth did so on Sept. 20, 1919."

That was a headline story. He's the starting pitcher that day, and he's batting near the top of the order, as you would expect. The game hasn't started yet.

Btw

OHTANI CHARTS NEW TERRITORY!!! And then you'd read on to find out he was the first player to hit a double and strike out the side in the same game since x (almost always Ruth).

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to hold this against him given the majority of people who saw Babe Ruth play are now dead. We are either more than a century or getting on from some of these feats!

reasonable, not unreasonable

I get what you're saying, but I don't think you get what I'm saying. In the headline I cited, the feat is that he's been penciled into the lineup. He hasn't actually done anything yet.

Our man has apparently signed a 1 year 30m deal a

Pitched another great game. If they gave him the MVP, I'd be surprised and it wouldn't be my vote, but I wouldn't argue against it very strenuously.

2023 ZiPS are out for the angels:

https://i.imgur.com/W4gn6pI.png

Trout's #1 comp is Mickey Mantle!
Ohtani's #1 pitching comp is Roger Clemens O_O

(Ohtani's #1 batting comp is Earl Torgeson, who i am much less familiar with)

Relatable

ファスナーに嫌われる😂 pic.twitter.com/Q8Lyz9e31Q

— splendid (@mintlibido) April 17, 2023

lol extremely

hitting and pitching today, not so much

Zip’s a pain but fuck the rain

3 IP with 8ks

2 for 2 at the plate

Insane.

That 3rd inning was hard to watch though. Had to switch to the O’s game. Glad he was able to come back and give a couple more innings.

Very strange how wild he has been this year. Almost like no one knows what he is throwing, shohei, catcher, umpire, batter, both teams, viewers. It’s all just chance coming out of his hand. Very effective tho

Fangraphs piece about his recent difficulties on the mound.

I wonder also if the current league wide popularity of sweepers is contributing to people hitting his better, alongside his shaky command. I’ve only seen him pitch a couple of times this season and the first time he was godlike and the second his command was wild and he looked like a completely different player. Hope he can iron it out. That ratio of offspeeds to fastballs is puzzling.

Patrick Sandoval just posted this photo of Shohei Ohtani eating Funyuns 😭 pic.twitter.com/jf7i12zX9e

— MLB Life (@MLBLife) May 23, 2023

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxnvjXRWAAAQOdu.jpg

Two Angels just hangin

My new future hobby: three-degrees-of photo triptychs.

https://phildellio.tripod.com/babetedreggiesho.jpg

Love it.

1W-2L in his last 7 starts...

he's absolutely going off.

pulled this quote from a news story KM posted years ago on the other Ohtani thread:

To better understand Otani I spoke with Anri Uechi of Kyodo News, who covers Masahiro Tanaka and the Yankees but also has followed the career of Otani. I asked Uechi for a comps on Otani as a pitcher and hitter. He came up with a blend of Yu Darvish — only with more velocity – and Christian Yelich. Hey, not bad.

really underselling him in retrospect!

I like every time I watch an Angels game at home and you see the stadium absolutely plastered with ads for Japan’s top cat food and the like.

i watched him cover 1b on that jared walsh diving catch yesterday and watching him run ro cover as a pitcher is insane.