2004 I Love Baseball All Star Thread: Cast Your Votes

david, i think it's safe to say he'll be playing at least 4/5 of the time.

even when bellhorn was hitting .192 in april, he was a valuable offensive player because he walked so much.

I don't doubt that, John! I was saying (to myself) when Bellhorn was doing his K / walk thing earlier this year, "If Dusty simply showed some patience & let Bellhorn do his thing, instead of jerking him around, he would've produced and might still be a Cub!" I just found it odd that, yesterday, w/ a righty starting for the Padres, they put in Pokey in lieu of Bellhorn, adn that was with "ground ball wha?" Schilling on the mound - I hope that's not a sign for things to come. Granted, Pokey made like Bellhorn last night, but, still, I'm not hot on him losing playing time to PR, fielding "deficiencies" notwithstanding.

G AB R H 2b3b HR BI BB K SB CS BA OBP SLG OBPS
Lowell 60 229 38 71 19 1 14 38 30 26 3 1 .310 .393 .585 .978
Rolen 60 215 40 76 11 2 16 64 24 36 1 1 .353 .421 .647 1.068

That's all I'm sayin, fules!

Lowell's your well-deserved second choice

so far this year, frank thomas has 13 home runs at home, 3 on the road. over the past 2 and a half years, thomas has hit 66 home runs at home, 20 on the road.

i wander if those short fences are helping him inflate his HR totals ? ? ?

everyone knows he's more or less been a DH for years now, but he's brazenly been listed on the ballot as a 1B anyway (so far this season, he's played a total of 8 innings there). also, kerry probably likes him.

in sum, DO NOT VOTE FOR FRANK THOMAS.

Were they deflating them when it was a pitcher's park? The park factor is neutral now. And yes I do and yes I did and I'm proud of it.

it may be a neutral park overall, but i doubt it. the park increases home runs by 30% compared to league if you believe the info in that article i posted. i find it difficult to believe thomas has been hitting 3X more at home since 2001 by random chance.

before they brought the fences they decreased home runs by 3% ie neutral effects.

what's your source on this "neutral park" assertion (not only cuz i don't believe you but also because i've been looking for a list)? if the data being used is from the past 10+ years (as i think they usually are) instead of the past 3 (when the fences were brought in) then the results would be skewed.

and if you're voting sox, you should have voted for paul konerko, a REAL LIFE first baseman and possessor of a .921 OPS who has zero chance of starting the all-star game because of this despicable brand of oldster favoritism and/or thomas's obscene disregard of reality. i think paul konerko would agree: "the big hurt", INDEED.

This is the Big Hurt's home/road splits vs Konerko's

Thomas
29 100 26 30 7 0 13 22 28 22 0 1 .300 .457 .760 1.217
26 87 17 26 7 0 3 18 26 15 0 0 .299 .470 .483 .952

Konerko
31 108 19 31 4 0 10 25 20 14 0 0 .287 .414 .602 1.015
25 95 11 27 5 0 4 14 9 21 1 0 .284 .346 .463 .809

Are you calling me a liar, John? I saw it in a magazine last year, and at the beginning of this year, and no - it was not for the last ten years. I believe it was in an ESPN magazine that my dad gave me. I am not at home right now, but I'll try to track it down, but good lord you are disrespectful. Grow up.

i wrote in konerko 2 years ago, but thomas is having an allstar season.

since he's eligible on the ballot at first, that's where he's getting my vote.

hey, wha? YOU started it!

i wanted to know your source (as i explained) because i've been trying to find park factors for awhile now, and because i wanted to know what data was being used. and i think one of our sources must be wrong, because if us cellular is really increasing home runs by 30% it would be very difficult to be a neutral park overall.

fwiw, i remembered/realized that my baseball prospectus lists park factors, and they have us cellular as a very slight hitter's park. but again i'm not sure what data they use.

big hurt's position vs. konerko's

konerko: 1B

thomas: none

Anyone see ESPN last night where HR and JK were picking Allstars based on their stats, not knowing who the guys were?

Now I'm not normally anti-BBTN because I think at worst they're nice guys with an old-school, backwards thinking perspective, no harm intended. But some of their picks were ridiculous. Also ridiculous was basing their picks on nothing other than HR-RBI-BA, which probably has more to do with BBTN dumbing it all down for everyone at home to understand than anything else. Slugging percentage and OBP and BB are still statistics that don't get people excited.

C Pudge Rodriguez, Craig Wilson
1B NO ONE (Ortiz), Albert Pujols/Sean Casey
2B Juan Uribe, Mark Loretta
3B Alex Rodriguez, Scott Rolen
SS Carlos Guillen, Jack Wilson
LF Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds
CF Carlos Beltran, Ken Griffey Jr.
RF Vladimir Guerrero, Miguel Cabrera

holy fuck did I
just vote for TWO PittWilsons
for all-star status?

REEEEEEETHIIIIIIINK
(but both of 'em regularly destroy the brewers. maybe estrada instead of craig wilson.)

Uh Begs, since when is Long Locks Wilson a catcher, or are you taking the Frank Thomas-as-1b-even-tho-he-doesn't play-there case to its logical extreme? Did you mean Jason Kendall? (a defensible choice, btw)

Vernon Wells deserves an AL OF spot ahead of Beltran among the CF regulars, too, but has no shot to start.

Wow, Adem Everett is back on top of the NL SS vote, and the Astros didn't even have any home games since the last tally was announced. I am truly baffled by this.

Plus, he pulled a hammy last night. >:(

I've seen Wilson play catcher this year (against the Brew Crew), so I wrongly assumed he was playing it more than he has. Thanks for the heads-up. Estrada for me then, even though it makes me sad because I dropped him off my team in favor of someone else I can't remember.

Well, Estrada is 330,000 votes behind AUSMUS, so good luck on that.

Everett must be stopped (preferably not by injury). Pack it for Renteria (I'd be willing to go to Larkin if his votes weren't lagging).

I "fixed" my ballot yay!

AL:
First Base: D. Ortiz, BOS (write-in)
Second Base: J. Uribe, CWS (write-in)
Third Base: H. Blalock, TEX
Shortstop: M. Young, TEX
Catcher: V. Martinez, CLE
Outfielder: C. Beltran, KC
Outfielder: V. Guerrero, ANA
Outfielder: M. Ramirez, BOS

NL:
First Base: A. Pujols, STL
Second Base: J. Kent, HOU
Third Base: S. Rolen, STL
Shortstop: J. Wilson, PIT
Catcher: M. Piazza, NYM
Outfielder: K. Griffey, Jr., CIN
Outfielder: B. Abreu, PHI
Outfielder: B. Bonds, SF

(Whoops - should've swapped out Griffey for Berkman, maybe.) And, also, because I was lazy, I used MLB's retardo arbitrary rating system (which just multiplies RBIs & HRs & Ks & SBs & other stuff by some factor, and then adds / subtracts where applicable) as a divining rod. Didn't affect my decisions at all, but if you want to throw stones, use that as the slingshot.

Re: Morb trumpeting the greatness of Vernon Wells - I didn't realize this but Wells & Beltran have similar stats (excepting Beltran's mind-boggling success as a basestealer, which is why he'll undoubtedly get the nod) (plus, VDub's "slow start" bit him in the ass, especially in the counting run-production stats) (he should've followed Beltran's lead - sprint out to an early lead, & then ease off the gas in mid-May) (I wonder if the Jays' "station-to-station" approach has something to do w/ Wells not running hmmmmmm).

Base stealing... overrated. (12 of 15 for Beltran is worth marveling at, compared to 5 of 6 for Wells?) Wells leads Beltran in nearly all vital categories last year AND this year (Beltran does have better range in CF).

If Beltran were to be a voted a spot, it could be the first case of trade hype doing it. Or pre-emptive Yankee homerism.

hey y'all can bitch about Vernon Wells and Carlos Beltran all you want but Matt Lawton would be snagging my 3rd OF spot easily.

something to be said
about guys who shoulder teams.
that's my beltran vote.

yep, wells is underrated and, even if you're taking defense into account (as you should) check out his crazy-ass zone rating for the year. however, me and carlos have had quite the love affair for some time now so he's getting my vote.

and you're right, wells isn't stealing cuz he's not allowed to by daddy richardi. but docta, 12/3 is more impressive than 5/1, please. especially when you consider that 12 of 15 is a poor percentage for carlos.

david, do you have some ranger fan in you that you've kept hidden? blalock and young, come on. (should be a-rod and jeter obv)

Lawton
59 238 50 77 9 0 10 33 25 50 12 5 .324 .397 .487 .884
Beltran
60 229 42 61 16 2 12 43 30 37 12 3 .266 .352 .511 .863
Wells
63 258 41 77 20 0 9 30 25 34 5 1 .298 .365 .481 .846

not a CF I know, but screw it.

well that's kind of important!

I think both the CF options are pretty boring, but if I had to choose a CF I would go with Beltran, there's not this incredible divide between the two aside from BA, and "nearly all vital categories" must not include OBPS, SLG, HR, R, RBI, BB apparently.

John, you forgot to add the YANKEE FAN WINK to the end of your 2nd-to-last post. Just be happy I didn't vote for Nomah & Mueller Time!

I voted based on who I like and which players are on my rotisserie teams.

C - Pudge
1B - Palmeiro
2B - I actually can't remember, not Soriano though
3B - Blalock
SS - M Young
OF - Vlad
OF - Manny
OF - V Wells

C - Piazza
1B - Pujols
2B - Kent
3B - Rolen
SS - also can't remember
OF - Abreu
OF - Griffey Jr.
OF - Giles

What I noticed about Raffy this year is that he's striking out at a very very low rate and he's walking more than he ever has before.

i've voted once before, did i post that ballot or not? oh well, here's my new one:

AL

1B Giambi (Harvey, PAUL KONERKO, Hatteberg [!!])
2B Belliard
SS Jeter
3B A-Rod
C Posada
OF Beltran
OF Vlad
OF Matsui

NL

1B Pujols
2B Loretta
SS Wilson
3B Rolen
C Lo Duca (Kendall)
OF Berkman
OF Alou (Dunn/Abreau)
OF Edmonds (Griffey)

the other guys'll hopefully get votes from me eventually.

Gear, you know what my vital categories are, or you skipped RBI class. Doesn't KC rank close to the top of AL hitters' parks?

JD, how many RUNS are 7 extra steals (and 2 CSs) worth? Maybe one?

Mark Loretta Lynn = under-rated. Good choice.

Whatever, ultimately it's all so close that getting pedantic over those who would dare vote for Beltran is a little bit silly, esp when CB's home road splits for '04 are:

Home 33 119 20 27 4 1 6 19 15 15 5 1 .227 .307 .429 .735
Away 27 110 22 34 12 1 6 24 15 22 7 2 .309 .402 .600 1.002

kc moved their fences back this year, so probably not.

i'm just saying it's more impressive, and by end of the season the difference will probably be quite a bit larger. 20-30 steals, if the past means anything. i agree that 12/3 isn't worth marvelling at in and of itself but baserunnning is a big part of carlos's game, while for wells it's practically a non-factor. they just happen to be flukishly close right now.

BTW, I voted multiple times today for Wells AND Beltran.

so we half agree then!

so can you do write ins in addition to all the other votes? i'm whacking myself for not voting figgins...somewhere.

...and i should alternate sheffield with matsui, as he's putting up comparable or better numbers now and has been torching everyone the past couple weeks.

for some reason filling out these ballots is a major pain in the ass for me. i have to get motivation from reading and disagreeing with other people's.

Figgins is no All-Star, not even on the bench.

Vernon Wells' vote total isn't even being reported, not in the top 15. Trot Nixon and Kevin Mench are ahead of him.

Sheffield is a respectable starter, fuckingmother Jeter isn't.

Playing rotisserie is for peepuls on whom real baseball is wasted.

Suck a neck, Morb. Taking potshots at vicarious thrillseekers is low.

i swear to god i wouldn't be voting for jeter if he wasn't hitting .450 in june (or, you know, .300 or so). i can forgive him an awful start.

figgins has wowed me every time i've seen him, so that's a case where i don't care too much what the stats say. he's batting .300 and has a load of triples so that's cool.

Rotisserie is a fun time-waster, so yes suck a neck foo'

Dude, SABR-nerds shouldn't line up to criticize anyone about "real baseball" being wasted.

Dude, lazy chants of the "SABR-nerd" insult waste time that could be spent grasping real baseball (with a 2- or 4-seam grip). Wanna arm-wrestle?

JD, Jeter hits .300 or so in an average month of his career, so what's so impressive? And why's a "hot" June better than a hot April?

i suppose it's better because it means jeter is returning to his "real" level instead of falling below it going in to the ASB.

i don't get that you're saying about jeter hitting .300 in an average month of his career. he does, and that's why he's an all-star!

"I appreciate baseball more than you do!"
"no way, I appreciate the finer aspects of the game way more!"
"uh-uh my grasp of the subtleties, nuances, and history is unmatched!!"

I Love Baseball: answering the question "what do you get when you cross the record nerd with the stat geek?" since 2003.

don't hate: appreciate.