Jim Rice was a one dimensional player with inflated hitting stats from his home ballpartk and everybody hated him. Somehow he's in the HOF (and he hit fewer HR's than Kingman).
I'm not saying Kingman would have gotten in, but there's no way he's one and done with 500 HR.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 7 August 2014 20:14 (nine years ago) link
And yeah, Rice had a couple of monster seasons and won an MVP award, Kingman didn't. I think there's still a comparison to be made though.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Thursday, 7 August 2014 20:15 (nine years ago) link
I'm not happy that Rice made the HOF, but he does have a 47.4 WAR to Kong's 17.3.
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 7 August 2014 20:20 (nine years ago) link
Kingman was also a world class dickhead.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 August 2014 20:21 (nine years ago) link
well, so was Ted Williams
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 7 August 2014 20:22 (nine years ago) link
i think torii hunter is kinda underrated (despite a -.6 war this yr ¯\(°_o)/¯)
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 7 August 2014 20:32 (nine years ago) link
Brisbee:
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/8/19/6045751/most-underrated-players-in-baseball-mlb
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 15:23 (nine years ago) link
don't know what his top 5 will look like, but I still think Beltre is underrated.
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 15:28 (nine years ago) link
lol @ the cody allen quiz
i'm gonna guess alex gordon for #1
― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 18:37 (nine years ago) link
also i'm curious about this:
He's hitting .297/.335/.406, good for a 105 OPS+. Those are fine numbers, sure, but you have to force yourself to remember it's 2014, which is a lot closer to 1968 than 2000 when it comes to the run-scoring environment. Put him on the 2000 Royals, and you might have a .330 hitter, someone who clearly stands out.
― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 18:43 (nine years ago) link
*pitching was worse
Pitchers are definitely better now, basically every team has two or three relievers throwing 95 and putting up K/9 rates like Billy Wagner or Eric Gagne in their primes. I also think that all of the big tech/stats breakthroughs (pitch f/x, better valuations of defense and defensive positioning) have favoured pitching and defense.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 19:32 (nine years ago) link
alex gordon is the kind of player who would deserve to get into the HOF if he plays like he has for another ten years.
― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 20:06 (nine years ago) link
i'm starting to think Alex Gordon has a slim chance at the MVP, and is def. getting nominated.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 20:44 (nine years ago) link
naaah, we're not there yet
I also don't think he's in Trout's class (no one is)
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 20:53 (nine years ago) link
Brisbee pt 2
http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2014/8/20/6049561/most-underrated-players-in-baseball
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 20:54 (nine years ago) link
another year under the radar i might put Rendon on that list
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 20:55 (nine years ago) link
yeesh i'm not sure anyone's missed the klubes train this year, which is his first full year as a good baseball pitcher
gordon should've been somewhere
― linda cardellini (zachlyon), Wednesday, 20 August 2014 22:06 (nine years ago) link
Hiroki Kuroda deserves a prize for being underrated even though he's played with the Yankees and Dodgers for his entire career.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 22:35 (nine years ago) link
ya, i have no idea how he pulled that off.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 21 August 2014 01:15 (nine years ago) link
Ian Kinsler. I was looking at this career box the other day:
-- his career WAR is 46.7 after his age-33 season (didn't get started till he was 24); his per-season WAR is 4.7, per-650 PA 5.4-- only twice (1.9, 2.4) in 10 seasons has he been under 4.0-- 184 HR, may end up in the 250 range-- 100+ runs five times, between 70-90 RBI seven times-- excellent defense, pretty good speed-- MVP votes four out of 10 seasons-- JAWS has him as the 23rd best second baseman ever
Real longshot, but--coming off WARs of 5.0/5.7/6.0--four or five more seasons like that and he'd be in the HOF gray area. Is he generally regarded as one of the most underrated players in the game? He doesn't show up in this thread.
― clemenza, Thursday, 10 December 2015 01:36 (eight years ago) link
^^^ian kinsler is i think turning into the new Beltre, as far as consistency and that creeping possibility of a good HOF case. not sure he can have another four or five seasons like his last few but if he does he'll be approaching a career WAR of 80. that's probably a real stretch, though.
― nomar, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 18:15 (seven years ago) link
he'll probably pass jeff 'most homers by a second baseman' kent in WAR this year but i think kinsler will be hurt by a) never getting anywhere near an MVP b) maybe never being the best hitter on his own team
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 18:31 (seven years ago) link
Similar Batters Hanley Ramirez (910)Chase Utley (910)Brandon Phillips (903)Travis Fryman (888)Rich Aurilia (888)Bret Boone (884)Bobby Grich (879)Jhonny Peralta (875)Joe Gordon (875) *Dustin Pedroia (868)
― Andy K, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 19:30 (seven years ago) link
As I wrote on some other thread, I think Adrian Gonzalez's home parks (Dodgers and Padres for the bulk of his career) have ensured that he'll never get any HOF consideration. He's basically the opposite of Troy Tulowitzki:
(close to the same number of games)
Home: .280/.354/.459/.813, 127 HR, 513 RBIAway: .300/.369/.524/.893, 181 HR, 633 RBI
If you simply double his road stats, he still falls short. But if you take his road stats and add them onto a favorable home park(s), who knows.
― clemenza, Thursday, 19 January 2017 01:50 (seven years ago) link
until writers learn to look beyond unadjusted dinosaur slash stats -- hey, there are already some! it's not 1997! wowza!
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 January 2017 01:57 (seven years ago) link
was surprised to not see Beltre on the above list, but that list wasn't including the 2010. since the beginning of that season, he's accumulated 46.2 WAR and passed everyone on that list except Pujols and A-Rod. also 17 of those guys have retired (except Beltre, Pujols, and Suzuki.) the current active top 20:
1. Albert Pujols (17, 37) 100.2 R2. Adrian Beltre (20, 38) 90.7 R3. Carlos Beltran (20, 40) 70.4 B4. Miguel Cabrera (15, 34) 69.7 R5. Chase Utley (15, 38) 64.8 L6. Robinson Cano (13, 34) 64.3 L7. Ichiro Suzuki (17, 43) 59.2 L8. Ian Kinsler (12, 35) 54.8 R9. Mike Trout (7, 25) 51.9 R10. Joe Mauer (14, 34) 51.1 L11. Dustin Pedroia (12, 33) 51.0 R12. Joey Votto (11, 33) 50.3 L13. David Wright (13, 34) 49.9 R14. Evan Longoria (10, 31) 48.5 R15. Matt Holliday (14, 37) 45.6 R16. Curtis Granderson (14, 36) 45.4 L17. Ryan Braun (11, 33) 44.4 R18. Troy Tulowitzki (12, 32) 43.7 R19. Adrian Gonzalez (14, 35) 43.2 L20. Ben Zobrist (12, 36) 43.1 B
― nomar, Monday, 26 June 2017 16:39 (six years ago) link
oops, Beltran also hasn't retired. anyway, Beltre is also the only one still playing at a high level.
― nomar, Monday, 26 June 2017 16:40 (six years ago) link
i guess from that list, in keeping w/the spirit of this thread, I think Evan Longoria is super underrated. playing in Tampa doesn't help, and maybe neither does the fact that he was a massively hyped prospect who was maybe overshadowed and has simply had a vv quietly outstanding career to date.
― nomar, Monday, 26 June 2017 16:42 (six years ago) link
was a lil surprised that Nellie cruz only has 28.1 career war tho I guess a product of not being a regular til he was 28 yrs old & prob having negative defensive ratings factored in
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 16:49 (six years ago) link
nick markakis being a decent two week stretch away from 2,000 career hits is blowing my mind.
― nomar, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 17:01 (six years ago) link
for some reason i often find myself navigating to cruz's stat pages and being surprised by his WAR, as well.
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 17:29 (six years ago) link
personally, i always underrate ian kinsler. it's totally arbitrary, but he's 12th in fWAR since 2010
i guess it's just because he's in the AL so i rarely watch him play, and he accumulated a lot of his value through solid defense, which lends itself to underratededereradfdsf
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 17:32 (six years ago) link
I was thinking about Cruz the other day, that he might be on a list of highest percentage of career WAR accumulated during a player's 30s.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 17:41 (six years ago) link
Comparison to three guys I associate with this:
Cruz - 20.5 WAR during 30s/28.1 career WAR = 73%Bautista - 27.7/34.7 = 80%Jeff Kent - 40.6/55.2 = 74%Luis Gonzalez - 32.5/51.5 = 63%
Bautista was 29 when he hit 54 HR, otherwise he'd be up near 100%. I think it's much more common for this to happen with pitchers.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 18:00 (six years ago) link
also edgar martinez - 49.6 of 68.3 = 73%ozzie smith - 52 of 76.5 = 68%
i should subscribe to the B-R play index so i can see the top ten and past twenty
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 18:16 (six years ago) link
The Jays had two of them--Edwin just crossed 60%, and I wouldn't be surprised if he works his way up to 75% by the time he retires.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 20:19 (six years ago) link
The flip side:
Albert Belle - 68% before he turns 30Juan Gonzalez - 78%Ken Griffey Jr. - 84% Andruw Jones - 92%Nomar Garciaparra - 93%
― clemenza, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 20:59 (six years ago) link
mark fidrych - %100
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 11 July 2017 23:16 (six years ago) link
Elvis Andrus? Crossed 30 WAR last season, most years in the 4.0-4.5 range, off to a great start in 2019. Jays fans will always remember him for his role (two crushing errors) in the bat-flip inning.
― clemenza, Sunday, 14 April 2019 21:53 (five years ago) link
In James's piece on the greatest center fielders ever:
"I guess that what I am saying is that even among underrated players, (Jimmy Wynn) is underrated. We have a kind of list of historically underrated players, in our field; Bobby Grich, Darrell and Dwight Evans, Gene Tenace, Rick Reuschel. I’m not sure that Wynn gets the references that he deserves on that list."
James has him 14th, a little higher than Jaffe (17th).
― clemenza, Saturday, 19 October 2019 12:19 (four years ago) link
brian giles
― Karl Malone, Monday, 30 March 2020 23:55 (four years ago) link
OBP1998: .3961999: .4182000: .4322001: .4042002: .4502003: .4272004: .3742005: .423
― Karl Malone, Monday, 30 March 2020 23:58 (four years ago) link
....oh
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/padres/sdut-steroid-talk-barred-trial-ex-padre-giles-2011apr04-htmlstory.html
― Karl Malone, Monday, 30 March 2020 23:59 (four years ago) link
Conceding some recency bias here, José Abreu? He's really putting together a steady, solid career, with a possible MVP this year. His career OPS+ is 136. Haven't really heard a lot about him since his rookie year.
― clemenza, Saturday, 19 September 2020 00:29 (three years ago) link
really good player; tough that he arrived so late and that we are no longer impressed with first basemen
we'll have to settle for stories about how his veteran leadership helped tim anderson/luis robert win other awards
― mookieproof, Saturday, 19 September 2020 07:03 (three years ago) link
Abreu got a fair amount of press his rookie year as hit power was so impressive, but the White Sox have been in the doldrums until now.
Add Abreu onto Konerko and then Big Hurt before being a primary DH and the Sox have had a really long run of good hitting first basemen.
― earlnash, Saturday, 19 September 2020 11:13 (three years ago) link
"I think a question on Dunn is whether he will hit the wall like Richie Sexton did, who is probably one player that is somewhat similar to Dunn (although he didn't draw as many walks). Sexton was pretty consistently decent, losing only one season to injury and he hit age 32 and he was finished. Don't know if this will be the fate of the Big Donkey or not, but it could be."
Poor Big Donkey, he hit the wall.
― earlnash, Saturday, 19 September 2020 11:18 (three years ago) link
Ray Durham is a player who was solid, never really a star, but you could do worse having him at second for a decade.
2000+ hits - .277/.352/.436
Durham did not have as much power, but probably similar career to Ian Kinsler. Hall of Very good at least.
― earlnash, Saturday, 19 September 2020 11:24 (three years ago) link
A list of the worst base-stealers ever (based on success rate over 300+ attempts) showed up on my FB wall today. Don Buford was on there at 65.6%.
He was a name when I first started following baseball, so I remember him well. Looked him up, and, in a very short career, definitely underrated.
Only played 10 years, age 26-35, including a 12-game call-up in 1963. Over that time: yearly WAR from 2.3 - 4.9, except for that call-up and a poor final season (4.5 per 650 PA); MVP votes in four out of nine full-time seasons; one of the best position players on the Orioles' historic '69-71 run (about even with Boog Powell after Frank Robinson and Paul Blair; a bit ahead of Brooks Robinson).
Still alive at 83.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 21:48 (three years ago) link