HOT STOVE LEAGUE 2K4/2K5

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sox made a lowball offer to pedro, who'll prolly end up w/ the angels (speculation mine)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-redsoxoffermadetoped&prov=fanball&type=lgns

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 6 November 2004 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link

The annual salary is market value, and I wouldn't want to risk more than a two-year deal either. Pedro wants like a four-year deal, right?

Come to think of it, is Pedro the first guy who signed his last contract during the Inflated Contract Era to come up for free agency? That is, is he the first of the guys who signed multi-year deals at $15-$20mil/year who will have to take a BIG paycut because of the subsequent market correction?

Delgado is in the same boat right now.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 6 November 2004 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link

wow!

apparently a sosa for shawn green deal is in the works and the chisox have offered konerko, jon garland and prospects for the large unit.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Sunday, 7 November 2004 16:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Sosa for Shawn Green, I like the idea of that trade a whole lot more than going after the injury prone Cliff Floyd. That might be workable and could work out OK for both teams at least in the short run. I bet LA would want the Cubbies to eat a whole lot of Sammy's salary. Sosa and Green both only have one season left on their current contract. Green would be a bonus as he is a left handed hitter, which outside of Patterson, the Cubs greatly lack.

If the Sox have offered Konerko and Garland for the Unit, no matter how good the prospects are the DBacks should bite. Konerko could be in the prime of his career next season and Garland might be the kind of pitcher that does better in the NL and he will be only 25 next season. The Unit will be 41 next season and he might be just as good or his body could fall apart in May, you never know on these things.

Getting rid of Konerko for the Sox is quite a gamble. If Magglio leaves and Thomas is still hurt next season, that team will have a serious hole in the middle of the lineup. Carlos Lee would really have to deliver and other people would have to step up.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 8 November 2004 00:17 (nineteen years ago) link

The word from Boston (via Can't Stop the Bleeding): Varitek wants 5 years for $50 million. LET HIM WALK THEO!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link

also word around boston is Troy "wheelchair" Glaus.

Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

That works! I heard those rumors, too, but figured the resigning of Mueller killed them. However, if they can get Glaus, too (perhaps to play 1st?) (or perhaps to flip Mueller to someone else), that'd be fantastic.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link

word around town is move bellhorn out of town, move mueller to 2nd and glaus to 3rd.

Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 11 November 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Mets said to be shopping Piazza (for Green?), Floyd, Reyes...

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets114038017nov11,0,3885182.story


REYES?? He'll be healed and Cooperstown-bound if they deal him for Soriano, aka Juan Samuel II.

Braves wisely trying to trade Andruw at the peak of his overratedness.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

hey velveeta bingo, my sister sent some pictures and video from the parade, what the hell was butch hobson doing there? and how did he disable his house arrest ankle bracelet?

it was good to see the can though, looking a little rough, but that's the can.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Fucking hell, I like Bellhorn, even if he's a bit of a boot around the bag. Strikeouts are sooooooooo overrated.

Minaya hasn't impressed me so far.

What the heck is the ChiSox farm system like that they can consider giving up Konerko? Or are they going to simultaneously make a play for Delgado or some other 1B freebie?

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I was wondering what Hobby was doing there. Probably scoring some tootski rootski from the Can. And Gedman, I mean really of all the Sox catchers why Gedman. Fisk couldn't have shown up?

Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 11 November 2004 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link

>Minaya hasn't impressed me so far.

What's he done besides hire Randolph?

Geez, Mo Rivera got 24 third-place Cy votes -- is all that Wisdom of Gammons-influenced? What crap. Ben Sheets got ONE third-place vote in the NL.

Speaking of Pistol Pete, his latest column sez the Unit doesn't want the Chisox:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1920544

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Morb, I'm being pre-emptive with my disapproval.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link

"Then they will look around to try to move Kevin Brown (if the Braves would do Brown-Andruw Jones, it would free up $24.8 million and perhaps allow Atlanta to sign Drew and a pitcher), perhaps shop at second and go for another big pitcher. They certainly will be in the Randy Johnson sweepstakes."

I can't see any way the Braves would deal Andruw Jones for Kevin Brown, especially considering Brown is around age 40 and played like a duffer last season and during the playoffs.

"Soriano, aka Juan Samuel II"

Interesting and apt comparison.

Boras is smoking rope on some of these deals he is fishing out there.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:22 (nineteen years ago) link

AP:
Free agent shortstop Omar Vizquel has agreed to terms on a $12.25 million, three-year contract with the San Francisco Giants, a person close to the negotiations told The Associated Press on Sunday on condition of anonymity.

maura (maura), Sunday, 14 November 2004 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

!!!

gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 14 November 2004 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link

???

John (jdahlem), Monday, 15 November 2004 03:21 (nineteen years ago) link

...

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 15 November 2004 04:37 (nineteen years ago) link

~~~

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 15 November 2004 05:03 (nineteen years ago) link

$$$

(aka Renteria's wallet)

bnw (bnw), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link

The Washington-bound Expos were busy Tuesday, agreeing to terms with third baseman Vinny Castilla on a two-year, $6.2 million deal and shortstop Cristian Guzman on a four-year, $16.8 million deal.

maura (maura), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link

also, pedro met with the boss today.

maura (maura), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:09 (nineteen years ago) link

whoa! link pls

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:17 (nineteen years ago) link

http://tinyurl.com/7yfc3

maura (maura), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not sure he's worth 2y/27mil.
... although, it looks like the market is on an upswing, judging from 3y/12mil+ going to a 37-year old SS and 4y/16.8mil going to a SS with about a .310 lifetime OBP.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:12 (nineteen years ago) link

i would be v happy if the yankees got him for 3/39.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:13 (nineteen years ago) link

(which they won't, but)

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Have fun w/ him, John. Feel free to send Mr. Lieber and / or Mr. Pavano on over to Yawkey Way where they can be seduced by 2K4 World Series bling and the Remdawg.

Jim Bowden = ???? Didn't anyone tell him that both Vinny & Guzman are the bottom of the barrel at their respective positions this free agent season, and that he could probably get equal production from cheaper folk and / or sign those two for less money after everyone else filled their left infield needs? You'd think his many months working for ESPN would've taught him SOMETHING.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:38 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah i've heard pavano to bosux is likely, and that ain't cool - esp if pedro stays

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:41 (nineteen years ago) link

pavano is gonna suck if he goes to the a.l. i dunno why folks ain't seeing this.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:27 (nineteen years ago) link

re: castilla: maybe selig told bowden the 'spos would be playing games in colorado instead of puerto rico??

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:28 (nineteen years ago) link

MEANWHILE R KELLY HAD A THREESOME WITH SHEFFIELD'S WIFE!!!!!!!!

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/20702.htm

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Why's Pavano going to suck? 2.80 K/BB ratio, around 1 hit per inning the last 2 years, a GB/F ratio above 1 during the same period (though I'm not sure what the standard is) (& I'm not sure how Pro Player plays re: being a hitter's or pitcher's park). He's not overpowering, but I don't see that being a problem if he's working the sinker / slurve angle (cf. Bronson Arroyo) (&, hey, Pavano's & Arroyo's lines from last year aren't too dissimilar).

xpost - did R. Kelly sleep with his ex-chef, though?

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:04 (nineteen years ago) link

How is RFK supposed to "play" as a park? Have they set the dimensions?

Yeah, why would Pavano suck in the AL, Yanc? (Pro Player has been a strong pitcher park; Pavano was still one of the 4-5 best in the NL last year, neutrally speaking.)

Mrs Sheff's adventures with R predated her trophy-wifery.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:11 (nineteen years ago) link

pavano isn't going to suck, but no i don't think he'll be an ace or anything. i'd take him as a #3 if i had to, though.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:14 (nineteen years ago) link

to be honest i think at least a third of my pavano wariness comes from having him on fantasy baseball teams almost every year except this past one. but the rest comes from this: his raw numbers between 2003 and 2004 are almost identical outside of ERs, giving him a 4.30 ERA in 2003 but a 3.00 ERA in 2004. so the question becomes, was he unlucky in 2003 or lucky in 2004?? there really isn't enough data to discern that for certain (about the only thing we can learn is that as he has gotten older he has become much more of a strikeout pitcher), but my own prejudices as well as the difficulties for pitchers in moving from the nl to the al (i'm sure morbius will pull out a stat showing me that's bs conventional wisdom which, if so, i will happily accept) suggests to me that pavano will be no better than a third starter next season (aka a rangers ace).

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

so obviously "suck" is an exagerration, but still.

as for kelly/sheff -- i don't care if it happened long after i was dead, i would not want a tape of my wife grooving on kelly's no-cry-shampoo scented cock. talk about being shamed!

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

kelly's no-cry-shampoo scented cock

She is 28 years old and the incident happened "more than 10 years ago".

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Is there a way to check how relievers helped / hurt Pavano these last two years - his counting stats are so similar that I can't help but think there's something amiss, aside from good old fashioned luck playing a part. (Hello Voros McCracken!) A quick scan he had the same number of walks the last 2 years (49 BBs), but pitched more innings this year (20.2 more) and only gave up 8 more hits (including 3 less homers). Could that really account for a 19 run discrepancy (99 runs in 2003, 80 in 2004)?

Also note - he's only 28! (I just did a quick PECOTA check, & hoped to find Tom Glavine's name on his list, but no dice. HOWEVER, 1998's Jon Lieber (link!) is #3 on his list of comparables.)

They better make RFK into Shibe Park or the Polo Grounds. With a water-slide in the field of play. And mascots (filibusters!) running onto the field at random times to interfere with balls in play.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:52 (nineteen years ago) link

it can't be too hard to figure out how lucky he was in 2003, what was his PERA in the baseball prospectus?

i'd guess the nl-to-al thing is 90% conventional wisdom, but i'll leave that to morbius.

chances are his era will be closer to 4.30 than 3.00, but in b/w the two, agreed?

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link

PEDRO YOU GHERI CURLED MOTHER FUCKER IF YOU GO TO THE YANKEES I WILL END YOU.

Big Baby Bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 17:05 (nineteen years ago) link

agreed, john.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link

I think the similarity between the leagues is at an all-time high, but I don't know of any studies offhand that describe recent "adjustment" trends.

If I'm reading the charts right, CP's bullpen support was among the worst (3.63) in '03 and decent (-0.83) this year:

http://baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sp_pen_support2004.html


http://baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sp_pen_support2003.html


Keep in mind Pavano's 2000 surgery meant he didn't have 30 (or even 25) starts in a year til 2003. Will Carroll, BP's injury guru, greenlights him:

"Carl Pavano (GREEN) - Here's a test case for pitchers. Pavano never pitched more than 136 innings before age 27, then jumped up to the 200-inning mark in his next two seasons. He pitched for a World Series winner, then got better the next season. He has a classic pitcher's frame, good mechanics, and everything but a strikeout pitch. If BP built a pitcher, Frankenstein-style, there'd be some Pavano parts in the mix. You have to be damned good to dump Alyssa Milano. (prediction: Orioles)"

The full Carroll free-agent report (non-premium!):

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3622

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

I liked this one.

Kent has been healthy even as he's aged, assuming he can be kept away from "car washes." (Cubs)

Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 17:36 (nineteen years ago) link

i'd be pretty alright w/ the o's picking up pavano and delgado.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link

News
Troy Percival is a Tiger. ESPN's Jayson Stark and mlive.com are reporting the free agent closer has signed a two-year, $12-million contract with the Tigers. The Tigers will hold a press conference at 4:30 pm to announce the deal.

Views
The Tigers now have two closers. They recently picked up the $4-million option on Ugueth Urbina's contract for 2005. You can expect they will be asked about this at their upcoming press conference; it's quite possible Urbina will be traded at baseball's winter meetings. Percival was reportedly being pursued by up to 12 teams, most notably the Indians, who will now likely focus their attention on landing free agent Armando Benitez as consolation. Percival's fantasy value will suffer a little in Detroit, as he will have fewer save opportunities than he's had in Anaheim, but will be pitching in a better pitcher's ballpark. The main concern with the 35-year-old Percival remains his health, as he has battled various ailments the last couple years and is certainly past his prime.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't quite get grabbing Percival to go with Urbina. I'm also not sure Percival has two years left in the tank. He's definitely getting a bit long in the tooth.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:33 (nineteen years ago) link

It's official, the market has gone insane. All the half-decent free agents are sitting at home laughing their asses off and making plans to build new winter homes with all the money they're going to make. Beltran's gonna get a ten year deal at the rate things are going.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Urbina is a big question mark. His mother is still missing after being kidnapped in Caracas.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:42 (nineteen years ago) link

George Bell (drafted by Phillies, came up as a Blue Jay)
Fred McGriff (drafted by Yanks, came up as a Blue Jay)
Juan Guzman (drafted by Dodgers, came up as a Blue Jay)
Jimmy Key (according to jqh)

STRICKEN FROM THE RECORD (if we're talking strictly about players drafted by the Jays, which I was). Not that I'm knocking the front office's knack for recognizing talented players in other orgs and/or fleecing the Yankee farm system (which, in the '80s, was required by the Collective Bargaining Agreement).

But, yeah, I think the Jays' farm system now is comparable to what it was - the only problem is the guys they acquire from outside of their system (either through trade or through free-agent signage). And the lack of developed starting pitchers. And having to play in a division w/ the two most lucrative franchises in all of baseball, if not all of American professional sports. And Skydome doing double duty as a vacant lot between April & October. And the team's inability to stick w/ a uniform design & logo for more than 2 years before coming up w/ a worse design. Otherwise, thumbs up, Canada!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Key was drafted by the Blue Jays according to Baseball Reference.

I would still give the Jays credit for getting that talent out of the other teams minor leagues as there are bunches of players traded around that never do much at all. Whatever they were doing in late 80s early 90s worked, they were a perennial contender and won two championships. Some teams seem to develop one or two positions pretty well but the Jays came up with players all over the diamond.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:08 (nineteen years ago) link

The Chicago Cubs today acquired pitcher Roberto Novoa, infielder Scott Moore and outfielder Clarence “Bo” Flowers from the Detroit Tigers in exchange for pitcher Kyle Farnsworth and a player to be named later.
It's Bo b/c he plays both baseball and football, I take it. He's a Bermanism waiting to happen.

bo was the chicago sun-times high school athlete of the year a few years ago, he seems pumped at the opportunity to play for the cubs.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:43 (nineteen years ago) link

So as the Hot Stove cools down, it is that time of the year...

Pitchers and Catchers report today for about 1/3 of MLB (Astros, Braves, Devil Rays, Giants, Indians, Marlins, Phillies, Pirates, Redsox, Rockies and Tigers).

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 February 2005 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link


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