Say HEY! Willie Mays, 75 on Saturday

superstar living, 1954

http://thestacks.deadspin.com/willie-mays-mvp-eats-breakfast-in-his-little-rented-a-1349890009

I love the first comment: "This photo is why Marvin Miller should be in the Hall Of Fame"

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/10/16/6990323/heres-a-picture-of-willie-mays-holding-a-dog-in-an-elevator

OMG PUPPEH!

Happy now?

yeah you also ignored the beautiful 'happiness is a mets victory' picture i posted FOR YOU MORBS.

yes, yr a good man. xp

No, I didn't! Just silent. I've read about that kid's banner for decades (it's not me).

I'll put this here instead of the Trout thread:

http://www.halosheaven.com/2015/9/30/9424049/mike-trout-five-tool-players-in-mlb-angels

Bought an old issue of Life today (James Earl Ray/Sirhan Sirhan cover) and found this ad inside:

https://smokingwithhank.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/willie-mays-franks-redhot1.jpg

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12278622_10153199025701828_7951385441482582750_n.jpg?oh=418ca45407ac7a388f73e0b8f5b7eb16&oe=56E5C5FB

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChzLJSIXEAAw9Zb.jpg

85

I had my vintage Mays shirt on at the Jays game tonight.

Happy Birthday to the Say Hey Kid. 85 and was at the ballpark for his birthday.

You've probably seen this by now--can't figure out how to embed the clip.

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2016/5/6/11614296/president-obama-willie-mays-happy-birthday

Little things mean a lot. Notwithstanding that there's staff there to initiate and look after these things, I don't think you'd have seen this if McCain or Romney had been president.

that was Great! thanks for sharing clemenza.

otoh everyone would give Kissinger a medal, that we all know

...that is, Jesus fucking Christ.

I've tried hard the past year-plus not to respond to your idiocy, but this time I will. Did it ever occur to you that a gesture like that might mean something to Willie Mays?

it was fine til you brought McCain and Mitt into it. Just pretend America isn't here.

When I saw his name at the top of that newsy Facebook sidebar, I assumed that was it. No--anniversary of the Catch.

On this date in 1954, Willie Mays made one of the most iconic defensive plays in World Series history. The Giants center fielder tracked down Vic Wertz's long fly ball to make "The Catch" — an over-the-head basket grab in deep center field at the Polo Grounds — during a crucial moment in Game 1 against the Indians. The Giants went on to win the World Series in a four-game sweep.

Today, Major League Baseball announced that the World Series MVP trophy has been renamed in honor of the Say Hey Kid.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/256686298/world-series-mvp-award-renamed-for-willie-mays/

That rules

88 today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UduDreaZq6c

And Happy Birthday too to Orson Welles and Sigmund Freud--May 6, genius day.

and John Flansburgh of They Might be Giants and frogbs

Have a good one--great day for your birthday.

say HEY

90 today. (Can't find the thread I once started on May 6 birthdays--Mays, Orson Welles, and Freud.)

91 today, happy birthday

https://www.mlb.com/news/willie-mays-best-stats-and-accomplishments

Hope to see this somewhere:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/hbo-willie-mays-documentary-1235229775/

Still one of the greatest moments in baseball history pic.twitter.com/EsPYqCXRaf

— BaseballHistoryNut (@nut_history) December 13, 2022

It really was, I'd agree. I don't think Mays is all that mobile these days, but if at all possible, I really wish they'd do the same for him next All-Star Game.

He was at one of the last games of the season - had hip surgery recently and wants to be at spring training.

There was a good SI piece about this, about how he didn’t want to be seen as a a museum piece and just enjoys spending time in the clubhouse with players.

I respect anything Willie says or wants, but watching all those players gather around Williams that year was just unbelievable--especially Gwynn next to him, whose chance at .400 five years earlier was cut short by the strike. (If you have a sharp eye, apparently there are 19 HOF'ers in that photo.)

I kept meaning to post this and today I found it in my tabs: Willie Mays talking to young Giants rookies in winter 2009. Bold from the original formatting, italics his!

The 25 or so young players sat in chairs encircling Mays, who sat behind a small table.

“All right, guys, c’mon, what else?’’ Mays said, prompting the next question.

Ever get timed in the 60?
“No, no! I didn’t run! I told them, ‘I can’t run the ball over the fence.’ When they were out running, I was asleep in the clubhouse. They got you just running here? You doing some hitting?’’

No, the players said. Just conditioning work.
“That’s not fun! Maybe I should say something. You want to hit a little bit and then go run. You got to enjoy yourself.’’

He told them about his struggles against Drysdale, Gibson, Koufax and Bob Rush then added: “I made up for it on all the other guys, the scrubs. I destroyed them.’’

Best players you ever saw?
Robert Clemente, Mays said. Barry Bonds — “If I don’t say Barry, he’ll start a fight.’’ Bobby Bonds (Now, he could run!’’ ) , Maury Wills (“Played a good shortstop.’’) and Frank Robinson (“Triple Crown winner’’).

What did you do in the off-season?
“Work, man, work! That’s a very good question. I played basketball, football — touch football — they didn’t know I played football! I had a 32 waistline. I worked out and played all the time. No time to lay around. Had to keep myself in shape. Played winter ball two times.’’

We’ve heard from other major-league players about what makes a good teammate. What’s your definition?
“In 1962, they made me captain. I positioned the outfielders, the infielders, I’d call pitches from centerfield — he didn’t have to take them but I wanted him throw a pitch I thought I could catch. You had to get 25 guys playing together even though nine or ten don’t play much at all and it feels bad. I’d go to the manager and say, ‘I want this guy to play because he needs to feel part of the team.’ The guy would go 9 for 10 and he’d go sit down and feel like a part of the team. When guys had problems at home, they’d come to me and I’d call their wives. I knew the wives better than I knew the players!’’

Your greatest baseball achievement?
“Man, I had so many! I think my greatest achievement was when I signed my major-league contract.’’

Greatest moment?
“Hitting four home runs in Milwaukee (with 8 RBI) was the greatest thing I ever did.’’

Best park to hit in?
“Wrigley. To me the ball went out of there pretty good.’’

Worst park to hit in?
“Candlestick. The wind’s always blowing in. We put a glove to a fence to see if it would fall and it didn’t fall. We could even hit it out in batting practice.
“I know you guys are saying, ‘Oh, hell, he didn’t do all this stuff. Oh yes I did.’’

What was your farthest home run?
“I never worried about that! You just get it over the fence! You don’t care how far it went.’’

What effect did race have back when you played?
“We went to some towns and I couldn’t stay in the same hotel. I remember once in Hagerstown, they dropped me off on the other side of the tracks. You guys from the South, you know what the other side of the track is. So they drop me off and I’m in a hotel, and at 2 o’clock in the morning two or three guys come through the window and sleep the rest of the night on my floor, and then at 6 a.m. they get up and go back out the window. They did the same thing the next night, watching out for me. Nothing was ever said.

“My father told me no matter what anybody said, never to fight. Turn the other cheek. I’d call him up and he’d ask, “Did you fight today?’ Back then, you had to make sure you were bigger than those people who called you names. They called you all kinds of names. But I knew for me to get ahead, I had to take all that kind of stuff. Every time somebody called me a name, I hit the ball.’’

What did you do in a slump?
“A slump is going to happen to everybody in some way. For me, a slump was 0-for-10. Everyone has a different way of getting out of a slump. I’d get out by swinging inside-out and getting a hit that way.’’

Throughout Mays’ talk, the young guys snapped photos with their cell phone, leaning close, recording forever their moment with the greatest player who ever stepped on a baseball field.

I have a great Willie Mays story involving a collector friend of mine.

My friend's a hardcore collector, so he wants things signed a precise way: certain kind of Sharpie, certain spot, perfectly legible, etc. He was at a show to get Mays' signature--having paid a pretty good amount, I'm sure--and when he got up to the table, Mays wouldn't use the Sharpie my friend offered him. So my friend said something like "Okay, fine; I'm going to go and get a refund." He starts to walk away, and Mays call him back. With great disdain, he takes my friend's Sharpie and half-heartedly signs whatever it was my friend had brought along (not a card; probably a photo). I can't remember if my friend was satisfied or not, but he took his item and went and stood by a wall. Mays, who had continued signing, spotted my friend and stopped everything.

"I'm not signing anything more until that guy"--points at my friend--"leaves."

That's as much as I remember; there was no great drama at the end, so I assume my friend just left, content with the autograph and the story he could tell for the rest of his life.

I really can’t understand that mentality. You’re meeting a living legend and you complain about the marker. Would personally never tell that story.

I would never pay for an autography myself (though I regret just a little not getting Thomson/Branca to sign together in one of the two Cooperstown trips I made), but that's a whole different world. Mays and players of his stature are getting paid extremely well; my friend is entitled to get a clear autograph for his money. I mean, that's the basic agreement.

I mean literally implying the guy won’t sign his name right? I’d be insulted too.

Don't get me wrong, I revere Mays. And I'm much more open to players from the '50s and '60s--especially African-American players--making good money at these signings; they were criminally underpaid throughout their careers. But with that stipulated, it's still a transaction where both parties should be happy.

I'm not sure what you mean...my friend doesn't imply that Mays wouldn't sign; it's that he wanted to sign with just a regular pen, which is just not what an autograph collector wants for his (guessing, and I'm not sure how far back this was) ~$100 or $150.

"autography"--I invented a new word. It's like an autograph, but more fun.

If you have 150-200 to spend on someone’s signature… maybe just take the L and don’t be a dick to Willie Mays ffs

Sorry 100-150!

I think where your buddy went wrong was in saying he was gonna get a refund. Makes him sound like a prima donna.

So if you can afford something, it's okay to not get what you thought you were paying for? What should my friend have done: said, "That's fine, sign with whatever you want--crayon will be fine"? If he doesn't get a clear signature, it's of no value to him--that's what a collector wants, even though such a mindset might not make sense to me or you.

If you read the post I made right before yours, Mays speaks pretty plainly about the things he went through as a black player to the point his teammates felt the need to sleep in his room to protect him. I think living through shit like that would make anyone pretty intolerant of lots of petty nonsense. Your friend was entitled to his autograph, he wasn’t entitled to tsk tsk a guy who’s probably gone through more shit then he’ll ever live through in his life because he preferred to use a biro.

What should my friend have done: said, "That's fine, sign with whatever you want--crayon will be fine"?

Yes.

We're going to have to disagree--a first, I know. My friend knows Mays's background very well, I assure you; he knows all about Willie Mays, that's why he wants his autograph. (His favourite player ever is Clemente.) But older players, black and white, make a lot of money signing autographs. People who watched them growing up go to those shows to get their autographs. And if the autograph is to have value--display value, investment value, whatever--something that's not going to last, or is illegible, isn't good enough. That's the understood transaction that's taking place.

Jimbeaux, I think I'd love to do business with you.

Funny thing is, gyac, my friend got under my skin once by saying something I could easily imagine you saying: told me that he loves the game for the art, and I love it for numbers. I told him that he was being really sanctimonious, and that he was missing a fundamental truth that there is art in baseball numbers.

That's the understood transaction that's taking place.

I am guessing he was using something that was fit for the purpose anyway. Your friend was just being an ass.

He quite likely wanted sign with a ballpoint pen. Which are terrible for autographs.

"I don't move as well as I used to."

https://i.postimg.cc/Jz7ydJdB/mays.jpg

Posting too much, I know...They did kind of artfully not mention Gibson in #10 here:

https://www.mlb.com/news/willie-mays-best-stats-and-accomplishments

Love all these stories and memories. The game tomorrow is going to be intense.

I was Zooming last night with an internet friend (we've never met) from San Francisco who saw Mays all through his prime, going back to 1958, when he was five.

I think I have a 60s WM baseball card

Posnanski's Mays post went up today. It's less about Mays than trying to decide who is now the Greatest Living Player. I guess he wrote so much about Mays in The Baseball 100--Mays was #1--he didn't want to repeat himself.

He starts with the idea that Bonds is obviously the GLP, but eventually, and circuitously, settles on Griffey, which will no doubt raise the ire of many.

Gleaned one interesting thing from a quick skim. In '69, when the writers chose their greatest all-time and greatest living players lists, they moved Mays to RF so they could get him onto the living list:

RHP: Walter Johnson (All-Time); Bob Feller (Living--died in 2010)
LHP: Lefty Grove (All-Time); Lefty Grove (Living--died in 1975)
C: Mickey Cochrane (All-Time); Bill Dickey (Living--died in 1993)
1B: George Sisler (All-Time); George Sisler and Stan Musial (Living)
2B: Rogers Hornsby (All-Time); Charlie Gehringer (Living--died in 1993)
3B: Pie Traynor (All-Time); Pie Traynor (Living--died in 1972)
SS: Honus Wagner (All-Time); Joe Cronin (Living--died in 1984)
LF: Ty Cobb (All-Time); Ted Williams (Living--died in 2002)
CF Joe DiMaggio (All-Time); Joe DiMaggio (Living--died in 1999)
RF: Babe Ruth (All-Time); Willie Mays (Living--died in 2024)

"There’s a little bit to unpack here, particularly the fact that the writers put Willie Mays in rightfield to get him on the living team, which, you know, on the one hand, I get it, because having an all-time living baseball team without Willie Mays would have been ridiculous. On the other hand, listing Willie Mays as a rightfielder is like listing Leonardo Da Vinci as an auto mechanic. I’m sure he’d have been able to do one helluva tuneup, but it entirely misses the point."

Thinking about Jerry West and the NBA logo, this is a great idea.

https://www.tsn.ca/video/buster-olney-willie-mays-absolutely-should-be-new-mlb-logo~2943148

Haven't won since Mays passing. Down to 2 starters. This year's team just isn't any good, mediocre.

I need something else to do.

Wrong thread

from the old tyme baseball photos thread, h/t gyac

I follow former SI photographer Walter Iooss on IG (you should too) and he posted this pic he took of Willie Mays the other day on Mays’s 90th bday. Pull this picture out every time someone says “they didn’t have athletes then like we have now.” pic.twitter.com/y6buSb1o54

— Harry Arnett (@harryarnett) May 7, 2021

no idea what that last line of my post is doing there

Greil Marcus, of all people--he is from the Bay Area--got a long "Ask Greil" about Willie Mays that he responded to today. I'll only include the last bit of the question; I like his answer.

I'm sure as a Bay Area native, you have fond memories of Willie Mays, as do all baseball fans for his talents were wonderous, but whatever his civil rights battles were, they were mostly private, sad to say. —JAMES R STACHO

I imagine that in some part of his being, every day Willie Mays said to himself, not in these words, but in his own, I am my own revolution. How did he feel that night in 1963 when in the bottom of the 16-inning scoreless tie with Warren Spahn and Juan Marichal on the mound for every pitch he ended it with a home run? Oh, I feel so fine, I am so lucky to be allowed to play this wonderful game? Or was it, Take that, you fuckers. Go back down in the ground, you Klan killers. You’ll never catch me.

A lot of people saw that. A lot of people felt that. There’s no way to measure to what degree Willie Mays might have inspired the people at the Cleveland Summit to do what they did even if he didn’t do it, even if he thought, I had to do my service, go on and do yours--which I doubt.

(The Cleveland Summit being the famous gathering of Black athletes in 1967 to support Ali--not attended by Mays or anybody else from MLB.)

He may well have thought that. I was reading about how Henry “Hank” Aaron* and Jackie Robinson were angry that Mays never spoke out over the racism he and they faced. There’s this interview I always think of, from 2009, totally casual talk to young Giants players:

“My father told me no matter what anybody said, never to fight. Turn the other cheek. I’d call him up and he’d ask, “Did you fight today?’ Back then, you had to make sure you were bigger than those people who called you names. They called you all kinds of names. But I knew for me to get ahead, I had to take all that kind of stuff. Every time somebody called me a name, I hit the ball.’’

Finally watched the Reggie interview earlier today--fantastic. (I had to laugh at a couple of side issues: when Reggie included A-Rod on his list of all-time greats, wondered if Jeter did a slow burn; and when Ortiz brought up the HOF, wondered the same about A-Rod.)

"I am my own revolution"--love that.

Any Black player pre-'68 or so had a second overriding fact to deal with aside from society in general: baseball was far more conservative than basketball or football.

Re the Reggie interview: knowing how much all the A's hated Charlie Finley when it came to anything related to money, I thought it was gracious of Jackson to mention Finley walking the team out when his country club wouldn't let Jackson attend a ceremony (they relented).

I haven’t finished this yet but very good piece regarding Mays, Robinson and their respective politics:

https://frontofficesports.com/willie-mays-humility-key-to-his-genius/

Will read that for sure.

I came across this in the days after but didn't want to post it so soon.

https://www.villagevoice.com/hank-aaron-and-willie-mays-new-revelations-on-just-how-much-they-hated-each-other/

Do I believe the piece? Yes--Allen Barra is an excellent baseball writer.

Does it make me think any less of Mays? Not in the least--if he did have some resentment towards Aaron, I think that would be unfortunate but very human. 1) Mays spent most of his career as the guy who was going to pass Babe Ruth--first him and Mantle, then just him. To see his body break down while Aaron kept going, I'm sure that stung. 2) I could be wrong here, but Mays in the '50s might have led something of a double life. The overwhelming reality was life as a Black player, and all the garbage that went along with that. But maybe he also saw himself as part of New York baseball royalty, along with Mantle and Robinson and Berra and DiMaggio and everyone else. Which, for millions, he was. To see this guy in Milwaukee--and later, playing for a team in the deep South--come along and surpass him, maybe that stung too.

A friend - in his 80s, and a lifelong baseball nut - says: “ I don't think the article got the facts about Henry Aaron right. I always understood that he was outspoken and felt obligated to continue Jackie Robinson's approach.”

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2-GettyImages-81418934-scaled.jpg

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/wp-GettyImages-480014359_master.jpg

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/may0-049-mays-U1067504.jpg

Lot goin on here...

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/may0-045-mays-BE030755.jpg

https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/may0-051-mays-U1196266INP.jpg

The first photo with Durocher was probably the one I saw second-most often in the days after. Weirdly, Mays had his back to the camera for the one I saw most often.

The two reporters in the locker room are absolutely killing me. These people existed! They weren’t just cartoons!

I was putting away some stuff today, including the NYT my friend bought for me the day after Mays died. Their front-page obit was written by helped-invent-rock-criticism Richard Goldstein.

Spring Training, '57--first photo I think I've seen of Mays' wife, Marguerite.

https://i.postimg.cc/dtwRMY50/mays.jpg

I extended a Crave subscription, so I watched the Nelson George documentary (Say Hey, Willie Mays) from a couple of years ago. It was okay--obviously interesting by default, but could have been much better (not as good as Reggie, I'd say). The section on Willie's reticence during the more militant consciousness of the late '60s was good. A lot of Barry Bonds--right at the end, the film (via a Mays speech) becomes advocacy for getting Bonds into the HOF. No mention of the Marichal-Roseboro incident, where Mays was central (in keeping some semblance of peace); only the briefest mention of Aaron, which felt like a major omission. Some good cutting-room stuff over the end credits; you find out that Mays met Ruth a couple of times, and--without saying so explicitly--that he didn't like him much!

When Mays and his wife Marguerite (above) went through a housing ordeal upon arriving in San Francisco--the all-white neighborhood where they wanted to buy a house didn't want to let them in--that eventually led to the dissolution of their marriage a few years later. (They did get the house with the help of an advocacy group.)

https://i.postimg.cc/6qHKj3C8/jerry.jpg

Willie: "What about the first few one-liners? Were they strong enough?"
Jerry: "Were they strong enough? If they were any stronger, you'd hurt yourself. They're marvelous, you daffy bastard."

from ilx user DJP on blueski:

A piece of family history that absolutely shocked me when I learned it is when my my dad was a young kid, he knew Willie Mays. Also, at least one, possibly two of my mom’s uncles played Negro League baseball with him.

(mays was born 95y ago today)