Sources tell SI Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003

Your sarcasm underlines the reason for bringing it up in the first place; there are a ton of variables that have shifted over baseball's existence. There are cases where you can point out individuals who have done particular things that have given them gigantic advantages over other players. We have decided on a largely arbitrary level to call some of them "good" and others "bad".

I still think at this point in time, the impact of steroids on baseball is more of a cultural impact than a performance impact.

i dont know how you quantify that but the home run record smashing of the early 00s is certainly the perfect storm of both those aspects

on variables shifting, completely totally agree. this is why i think legacy, cross-era comparisons, "the sanctity of the HoF," and a lot of similar stuff is dumb.

so yeah, i'm not too concerned with "figuring out" how this affected past performance, which is a fool's errand anyway. i am concerned with making it so that, going forward, the game is as on the level as it can be regarding substances. and i think a big part of getting there is making those other 103 names public.

all records are broken in favorable environments

(ie Roger fucking Maris and the short RF porch in Yankee Stadium)

bill spaceman lee talked of getting shot up with all sorts of stuff after his starts in the late 60s, granted some of it may have been low-grade steroids like cortisone but still... red juice, bennies, greenies, whites, crosstops... these things were not of media interest back in the day so there's not as extensive coverage of it.

I mean even when McGwire got caught with the Andro in his locker... that was OTC at the time.

Removing Bonds from the all-time HR list???

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491644,00.html

should give the homerun crown to nomar imo

O_O

On Wednesday, news emerged that All-Star shortstop Miguel Tejada might be deported to the Dominican Republic after pleading guilty to lying to Congress about using steroids.

haaah ok it was fun for a while but this is really going just too far

MIGHT isn't the same as being on the next plane out of here.

I'm guessing one of the reasons he pled guilty was in the hopes that it would avoid getting the boot.

is this the funniest offseason ever?

It's pretty awesome. Unless you are a Phillies fan. Then it must suck, but hey you won the WS you can't complain too much.

Unless you are a Phillies fan.

Or Braves. But otherwise yeah, Desperate Housewives with jockstraps, A+++.

this is why i can never leave baseball behind 8)

I don't find this last week remotely funny. Must be the "Arrested Development" generation's funny.

If Beelzebud suspends A-Rod, MLBPA needs to slap his ass w/ immediate suit.

not so great for O's or J's fans either, guys.

xpost

What's crappy for the O's? Didn't they manage to lift a bunch of talent off the Cubs?

http://students.ithaca.edu/~bwolfe1/lab11/images/yankees.jpg, http://refrigeratorlogic.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/red_sox_logo111.gif & now somehow http://www.scottdecker.com/sports/tampa_bay_devil_rays_logo_2.jpg

but mainly the yankees - sorry didn't realize they were that big!

OIC

Yeah sucks to be in that division.

you do have a point tho. at least the O's have been making moves as opposed to the J's spending the off season collecting freaks and oddities.

who did the o's get from the cubs, haven't been following anything

f. pie

rich hill

and the Indians got derosa

TAMPA, Fla. -- Bud Selig says Alex Rodriguez has "shamed the game," though the baseball commissioner indicated no plans to punish the three-time AL MVP.

wooow selig telling someone else that they have 'shamed the game'....

narcissism of small differences there

just out of curiosity... what exactly could we be charged with if we tarred and feathered Selig?

fyi, Will Carroll sez The list of 104 includes positive tests for substances that were not on baseball’s banned list. There’s reason to believe now that this included THG, DMT, and other designer steroids.

By Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY

New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez might be suspended for admitting he used performance-enhancing drugs, Commissioner Bud Selig told USA TODAY on Wednesday.

Selig and Major League Baseball officials realize any attempt to suspend Rodriguez would be challenged by the players union since the penalty phase of the testing policy was not implemented until 2004. Yet Selig said he sent a memo banning steroids around 1997 and that it was illegal to possess them without a prescription.

"It was against the law, so I would have to think about that," Selig told USA TODAY's Christine Brennan in his first comments since Rodriguez's admission. "It's very hard. I've got to think about all that kind of stuff."

Either he's crazy (let's get not started on rewriting HR totals) or this is the dumbest trial ballooon in awhile.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2009-02-11-selig-rodriguez-suspension_N.htm

uhh... DMT is a psychedelic!

xpost

what next, taking away dock ellis's LSD no-hitter? where will it end

J.P. (JC): re: The record books. Wouldn't Bud have to reinstate Ruth as the career HR leader? Aaron used amphetamines...

SportsNation Keith Law: Ruth used booze. Reinstate Frank Baker!

(actually, Ruth broke Gavvy Cravath's record I think)

1 Barry Bonds 762 (juicer)
2 Hank Aaron 755 (tweaker)
3 Babe Ruth 714 (boozer)
4 Willie Mays 660 (tweaker)
5 Ken Griffey, Jr. (18) 611 (glum towards the end there, mood swings from roids maybe?)
6 Sammy Sosa 609 (juicer)
7 Frank Robinson 586 (not a good manager, probably a tweaker)
8 Mark McGwire 583 (lol)
9 Harmon Killebrew 573 (must have been a drunk)
10 Rafael Palmeiro 569 (loool)
11 Reggie Jackson 563 (works for the yankees, probably turned a blind eye to roids)
12 Alex Rodriguez (35) 553 (haha)
13 Mike Schmidt 548 (cocaine i bet)
14 Jim Thome (34) 541 (you know this guy was on something)
15 Mickey Mantle 536 (drunk)
16 Jimmie Foxx 534 (probably killed someone once)
17 Manny Ramírez (37) 527 (not nice to club staff, strange dude, smoked weed i guarantee)
18 Willie McCovey 521 (a lefty in that uniform is always suspicious)
Frank Thomas (8) 521 (volunteered to talk about steroid use, you think he's clean, but this was one of those "criminal shows up as witness to own crime" moments)
Ted Williams 521 (druggie)
21 Ernie Banks 512 (let's play two because i am HIGH AS A KITE)
Eddie Mathews 512 (drunk i'm sure)
23 Mel Ott 511 (this guy i'm sure just beat women all the time)
24 Eddie Murray 504 (dbag)
25 Gary Sheffield (19) 499 (juice)
26 Lou Gehrig 493 (he was on a shitload of drugs at the end there i bet)
Fred McGriff 493 (like he was clean)
28 Stan Musial 475 (heroin probably)
Willie Stargell 475 (cocaine)
30 Carlos Delgado (38) 469 (he was in toronto with clemens, do the math)
31 Dave Winfield 465 (meth)
32 José Canseco 462 (lol)
33 Carl Yastrzemski 452 (1970s = coke)
34 Jeff Bagwell 449 (a little roidy imo)
35 Dave Kingman 442 (cocaine, meth, everything i am sure)
36 Andre Dawson 438 (drugged up all the time because of the knees, fuck him)
37 Juan González 434 (like a balloon filled with roid juice)
38 Cal Ripken, Jr. 431 (that streak was completely thanks to meth)
39 Mike Piazza 427 (roids, weed, possibly gay?)
40 Billy Williams 426 <----your new home run king!

i endorse

21 Ernie Banks 512 (let's play two because i am HIGH AS A KITE)

lol

omg #26

*applauding furiously*

!

The Onion:

NEW YORK—After the records of players who used performance-enhancing drugs are carefully removed, statistics provided by the Elias Sports Bureau indicate that lifetime .255 hitter Craig Counsell was the best player of the past 15 years. "If you judge them on the basis of pure physical ability, you're left with Craig Counsell," said ESB representative Patrick Wondolowski, adding that Counsell's 35 career home runs narrowly beat out Quinton McCracken's 21 and pitcher Glendon Rusch's three. Upon hearing the news, broadcaster Bob Uecker lauded the Brewers utilityman as "one of the best I ever saw, if we're talking about those who I can say without a doubt never took steroids. He came this close to stealing a base off of Ivan Rodriguez, and I swear I heard him foul tip a Roger Clemens fastball. The kid could flat-out steroid-free play. One time he was playing third base and he caught a Rafael Palmeiro line drive—just caught it, right in his mitt." When asked about his Hall of Fame chances, Counsell dodged the question by asking if anyone had a few bucks so he could go buy a sandwich.

looooooooooooool omar

14 Jim Thome (34) 541 (you know this guy was on something)

Hahaha I always actually thought of Thome as more just kinda like

http://fruitfly.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/babyhuey.jpg

Also re: hilarious offseason, I can't believe there's been no talk of this bizarre Robbie Alomar AIDS lawsuit thing.

get thee to the hot stove thread for that

uh... check again.

xpost

New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez might be suspended for admitting he used performance-enhancing drugs, Commissioner Bud Selig told USA TODAY on Wednesday.

Andypettitehuggingjasongiambi.jpg

MASSIVE xp

no way he gets suspended

During the past week, BILL MAHER is the only person (out of dozens I've seen) who has made these points/arguments on television.

(Best ones in bold.)

MAHER: Who cares?

First of all, I think that there are so many variables in the game of baseball.

KING: Sure.

MAHER: That...

KING: It's a hard game to play.

MAHER: No, I mean, from era to era. That this idea that, oh, Alex Rodriguez's records and Roger Clemens and whoever else is guilty, we should wipe them out. Barry Bonds now can't be in the Hall of Fame. His records are suspect.

Well, yes, things were different because they took steroids. I don't think that's more than when we didn't have night games...

KING: (INAUDIBLE)

MAHER: Or when there we're not...

KING: It's just (INAUDIBLE) throwing spit balls.

MAHER: Spit balls.

How about that there weren't black people in the game?

KING: Yes.

MAHER: I think that changed things a little.

KING: Right.

MAHER: Or the fact that they used to wear little mittens. I mean it was called a baseball mitt because it was only fitting over your hand.

KING: Yes.

Little mittens, LOL.