HOT STOVE LEAGUE 2K4/2K5

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (522 of them)
haha

i had no idea minaya was w/ the mets!?!?

John (jdahlem), Friday, 29 October 2004 20:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Mets going after Sammy Sosa is like George Foster 2004, who they made the highest paid player in the game back in the day. Foster was not the same hitter without those Big Red Machine lumber surrounding him.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 30 October 2004 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link

tengo mucho miedo. if the o's paid 7 mill a year for ponson, what will they pay for one of this year's crop of better than average pitchers?

yikes.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Friday, 5 November 2004 14:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Mets' 1B shopping list (now that Piazza heads back to catching) is apparently topped by Sexson -- splendid. Alternatives include Olerud (no, not full-time) and Tino (DISASTER).

George Foster's problem was that he was OLD by the time the Mets signed him. Don't forget, he was released in mid-'86 after complaining that he lost playing time to racism (much of which went to... Kevin Mitchell and Mookie Wilson).

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 5 November 2004 14:42 (nineteen years ago) link

didn't the d-backs give up like half their team for sexson? and they got all of two months out of him? nice!

bnw (bnw), Friday, 5 November 2004 15:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Maura pointed this out to me yesterday - Boras wants a TEN YEAR CONTRACT for Carlos Beltran. TEN YEARS.

TEN!

YEARS!

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 5 November 2004 16:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Then he should at least pretend he's 23 like pujols.

bnw (bnw), Friday, 5 November 2004 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link

As for Anglo-Sexson - getting him was a salary dump anyway, wasn't it (Counsell, ? Or, at the very least, a way to get The Kids (Hairston, Tracy) up & playing. I would be surprised if the D-Backs didn't try to sign him, and I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to disregard 'Zona & go to a team that wins more than 1/3rd of the time.

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 5 November 2004 18:49 (nineteen years ago) link

So with the Dbacks completely at the annihilated level, do they wise up and deal The Unit to a contender before the season starts?

Looks like Beltran's agent is trying to get a contract in total cash on in the A-Rod realm, which no matter how good Carlos may be is crazy thinking. Beltran is a great all around player and probably has not yet peaked, but he hasn't hit like A-Rod did in Seattle.

After such a big injury, I would figure that Sexton might go to a team on a short one year deal, just to prove that he is ok.

The team that I am really curious to see what moves the make are the Cleveland Indians. Their lineup is definitely ready to make a run at winning the central, but they need a whole lot of help in the bullpen and probably one or two starting pitchers. Are their finances improved? They used to be a money bags team and then started from scratch in rebuilding.


Earl Nash (earlnash), Friday, 5 November 2004 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

sox made a lowball offer to pedro, who'll prolly end up w/ the angels (speculation mine)

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=fanball-redsoxoffermadetoped&prov=fanball&type=lgns

John (jdahlem), Saturday, 6 November 2004 17:08 (nineteen years ago) link

The annual salary is market value, and I wouldn't want to risk more than a two-year deal either. Pedro wants like a four-year deal, right?

Come to think of it, is Pedro the first guy who signed his last contract during the Inflated Contract Era to come up for free agency? That is, is he the first of the guys who signed multi-year deals at $15-$20mil/year who will have to take a BIG paycut because of the subsequent market correction?

Delgado is in the same boat right now.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 6 November 2004 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link

wow!

apparently a sosa for shawn green deal is in the works and the chisox have offered konerko, jon garland and prospects for the large unit.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Sunday, 7 November 2004 16:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Sosa for Shawn Green, I like the idea of that trade a whole lot more than going after the injury prone Cliff Floyd. That might be workable and could work out OK for both teams at least in the short run. I bet LA would want the Cubbies to eat a whole lot of Sammy's salary. Sosa and Green both only have one season left on their current contract. Green would be a bonus as he is a left handed hitter, which outside of Patterson, the Cubs greatly lack.

If the Sox have offered Konerko and Garland for the Unit, no matter how good the prospects are the DBacks should bite. Konerko could be in the prime of his career next season and Garland might be the kind of pitcher that does better in the NL and he will be only 25 next season. The Unit will be 41 next season and he might be just as good or his body could fall apart in May, you never know on these things.

Getting rid of Konerko for the Sox is quite a gamble. If Magglio leaves and Thomas is still hurt next season, that team will have a serious hole in the middle of the lineup. Carlos Lee would really have to deliver and other people would have to step up.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Monday, 8 November 2004 00:17 (nineteen years ago) link

The word from Boston (via Can't Stop the Bleeding): Varitek wants 5 years for $50 million. LET HIM WALK THEO!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 16:57 (nineteen years ago) link

also word around boston is Troy "wheelchair" Glaus.

Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

That works! I heard those rumors, too, but figured the resigning of Mueller killed them. However, if they can get Glaus, too (perhaps to play 1st?) (or perhaps to flip Mueller to someone else), that'd be fantastic.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link

word around town is move bellhorn out of town, move mueller to 2nd and glaus to 3rd.

Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 11 November 2004 14:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Mets said to be shopping Piazza (for Green?), Floyd, Reyes...

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spmets114038017nov11,0,3885182.story


REYES?? He'll be healed and Cooperstown-bound if they deal him for Soriano, aka Juan Samuel II.

Braves wisely trying to trade Andruw at the peak of his overratedness.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 November 2004 15:51 (nineteen years ago) link

hey velveeta bingo, my sister sent some pictures and video from the parade, what the hell was butch hobson doing there? and how did he disable his house arrest ankle bracelet?

it was good to see the can though, looking a little rough, but that's the can.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Fucking hell, I like Bellhorn, even if he's a bit of a boot around the bag. Strikeouts are sooooooooo overrated.

Minaya hasn't impressed me so far.

What the heck is the ChiSox farm system like that they can consider giving up Konerko? Or are they going to simultaneously make a play for Delgado or some other 1B freebie?

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I was wondering what Hobby was doing there. Probably scoring some tootski rootski from the Can. And Gedman, I mean really of all the Sox catchers why Gedman. Fisk couldn't have shown up?

Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 11 November 2004 17:07 (nineteen years ago) link

>Minaya hasn't impressed me so far.

What's he done besides hire Randolph?

Geez, Mo Rivera got 24 third-place Cy votes -- is all that Wisdom of Gammons-influenced? What crap. Ben Sheets got ONE third-place vote in the NL.

Speaking of Pistol Pete, his latest column sez the Unit doesn't want the Chisox:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1920544

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Morb, I'm being pre-emptive with my disapproval.

David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 11 November 2004 19:40 (nineteen years ago) link

"Then they will look around to try to move Kevin Brown (if the Braves would do Brown-Andruw Jones, it would free up $24.8 million and perhaps allow Atlanta to sign Drew and a pitcher), perhaps shop at second and go for another big pitcher. They certainly will be in the Randy Johnson sweepstakes."

I can't see any way the Braves would deal Andruw Jones for Kevin Brown, especially considering Brown is around age 40 and played like a duffer last season and during the playoffs.

"Soriano, aka Juan Samuel II"

Interesting and apt comparison.

Boras is smoking rope on some of these deals he is fishing out there.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:22 (nineteen years ago) link

AP:
Free agent shortstop Omar Vizquel has agreed to terms on a $12.25 million, three-year contract with the San Francisco Giants, a person close to the negotiations told The Associated Press on Sunday on condition of anonymity.

maura (maura), Sunday, 14 November 2004 20:20 (nineteen years ago) link

!!!

gygax! (gygax!), Sunday, 14 November 2004 21:18 (nineteen years ago) link

???

John (jdahlem), Monday, 15 November 2004 03:21 (nineteen years ago) link

...

Riot Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 15 November 2004 04:37 (nineteen years ago) link

~~~

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 15 November 2004 05:03 (nineteen years ago) link

$$$

(aka Renteria's wallet)

bnw (bnw), Monday, 15 November 2004 19:35 (nineteen years ago) link

The Washington-bound Expos were busy Tuesday, agreeing to terms with third baseman Vinny Castilla on a two-year, $6.2 million deal and shortstop Cristian Guzman on a four-year, $16.8 million deal.

maura (maura), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link

also, pedro met with the boss today.

maura (maura), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:09 (nineteen years ago) link

whoa! link pls

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:17 (nineteen years ago) link

http://tinyurl.com/7yfc3

maura (maura), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:46 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not sure he's worth 2y/27mil.
... although, it looks like the market is on an upswing, judging from 3y/12mil+ going to a 37-year old SS and 4y/16.8mil going to a SS with about a .310 lifetime OBP.

MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:12 (nineteen years ago) link

i would be v happy if the yankees got him for 3/39.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:13 (nineteen years ago) link

(which they won't, but)

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Have fun w/ him, John. Feel free to send Mr. Lieber and / or Mr. Pavano on over to Yawkey Way where they can be seduced by 2K4 World Series bling and the Remdawg.

Jim Bowden = ???? Didn't anyone tell him that both Vinny & Guzman are the bottom of the barrel at their respective positions this free agent season, and that he could probably get equal production from cheaper folk and / or sign those two for less money after everyone else filled their left infield needs? You'd think his many months working for ESPN would've taught him SOMETHING.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:38 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah i've heard pavano to bosux is likely, and that ain't cool - esp if pedro stays

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 04:41 (nineteen years ago) link

pavano is gonna suck if he goes to the a.l. i dunno why folks ain't seeing this.

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:27 (nineteen years ago) link

re: castilla: maybe selig told bowden the 'spos would be playing games in colorado instead of puerto rico??

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:28 (nineteen years ago) link

MEANWHILE R KELLY HAD A THREESOME WITH SHEFFIELD'S WIFE!!!!!!!!

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/20702.htm

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Why's Pavano going to suck? 2.80 K/BB ratio, around 1 hit per inning the last 2 years, a GB/F ratio above 1 during the same period (though I'm not sure what the standard is) (& I'm not sure how Pro Player plays re: being a hitter's or pitcher's park). He's not overpowering, but I don't see that being a problem if he's working the sinker / slurve angle (cf. Bronson Arroyo) (&, hey, Pavano's & Arroyo's lines from last year aren't too dissimilar).

xpost - did R. Kelly sleep with his ex-chef, though?

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:04 (nineteen years ago) link

How is RFK supposed to "play" as a park? Have they set the dimensions?

Yeah, why would Pavano suck in the AL, Yanc? (Pro Player has been a strong pitcher park; Pavano was still one of the 4-5 best in the NL last year, neutrally speaking.)

Mrs Sheff's adventures with R predated her trophy-wifery.

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:11 (nineteen years ago) link

pavano isn't going to suck, but no i don't think he'll be an ace or anything. i'd take him as a #3 if i had to, though.

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:14 (nineteen years ago) link

to be honest i think at least a third of my pavano wariness comes from having him on fantasy baseball teams almost every year except this past one. but the rest comes from this: his raw numbers between 2003 and 2004 are almost identical outside of ERs, giving him a 4.30 ERA in 2003 but a 3.00 ERA in 2004. so the question becomes, was he unlucky in 2003 or lucky in 2004?? there really isn't enough data to discern that for certain (about the only thing we can learn is that as he has gotten older he has become much more of a strikeout pitcher), but my own prejudices as well as the difficulties for pitchers in moving from the nl to the al (i'm sure morbius will pull out a stat showing me that's bs conventional wisdom which, if so, i will happily accept) suggests to me that pavano will be no better than a third starter next season (aka a rangers ace).

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:36 (nineteen years ago) link

so obviously "suck" is an exagerration, but still.

as for kelly/sheff -- i don't care if it happened long after i was dead, i would not want a tape of my wife grooving on kelly's no-cry-shampoo scented cock. talk about being shamed!

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

kelly's no-cry-shampoo scented cock

She is 28 years old and the incident happened "more than 10 years ago".

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link

Is there a way to check how relievers helped / hurt Pavano these last two years - his counting stats are so similar that I can't help but think there's something amiss, aside from good old fashioned luck playing a part. (Hello Voros McCracken!) A quick scan he had the same number of walks the last 2 years (49 BBs), but pitched more innings this year (20.2 more) and only gave up 8 more hits (including 3 less homers). Could that really account for a 19 run discrepancy (99 runs in 2003, 80 in 2004)?

Also note - he's only 28! (I just did a quick PECOTA check, & hoped to find Tom Glavine's name on his list, but no dice. HOWEVER, 1998's Jon Lieber (link!) is #3 on his list of comparables.)

They better make RFK into Shibe Park or the Polo Grounds. With a water-slide in the field of play. And mascots (filibusters!) running onto the field at random times to interfere with balls in play.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 16:52 (nineteen years ago) link

it can't be too hard to figure out how lucky he was in 2003, what was his PERA in the baseball prospectus?

i'd guess the nl-to-al thing is 90% conventional wisdom, but i'll leave that to morbius.

chances are his era will be closer to 4.30 than 3.00, but in b/w the two, agreed?

John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The Chicago Cubs today acquired pitcher Roberto Novoa, infielder Scott Moore and outfielder Clarence “Bo” Flowers from the Detroit Tigers in exchange for pitcher Kyle Farnsworth and a player to be named later.

It's Bo b/c he plays both baseball and football, I take it. He's a Bermanism waiting to happen.

bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Tom Meagher slams the Ordonez deal.

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Thank you Thermo! I totally whiffed on Halladay & Hudson!

Also, if you REALLY want to push things, there's that would-be phenom SS currently on the Reds that's supposedly "washed up" at the ripe old age of 25. (Is his name Felipe Lopez?)

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 18:47 (nineteen years ago) link

there's that would-be phenom SS currently on the Reds that's supposedly "washed up" at the ripe old age of

Rich Aurilia?

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Detroit's assembling a real gas can of a team.

mattbot (mattbot), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 20:01 (nineteen years ago) link

there's that would-be phenom SS currently on the Reds that's supposedly "washed up" at the ripe old age of 25. (Is his name Felipe Lopez?)

Ha ha! Lopez, forgot about him. If we're going to be reaching into the bargan bin why not mention Mr. Cesar Izturis!

Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 20:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Ewww, let's not.

I guess now my question is (re: the Jays) - who were their shit-hot prospects from the 80s & 90s?

70s / 80s: (I'm really not sure on any of these)
Tony Fernandez
Tom Henke
Dave Steib
Jesse Barfield (?)
Kelly Gruber (woo!)
Garth Iorg (?)

90s / early 00s:
Carlos Delgado
Shannon Stewart
Jeff Kent
Pat Hentgen (for a brief while)
Mike Timlin
Ed Sprague (woo woo!)

From what I can recall, the meat of their championship teams (Robbie Alomar / Joe Carter / Devon White / David Cone) (& Mitch Williams -ha!) came from other organizations.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Other Jays not mentioned, including many of the big ones. The Blue Jays were also good at trading for talent, as also got Tom Henke and Duane Ward after they had very little MLB experience.

Pat Borders
David Wells
Mark Whiten
George Bell (drafted by Phillies, came up as a Blue Jay)
Fred McGriff (drafted by Yanks, came up as a Blue Jay)
Juan Guzman (drafted by Dodgers, came up as a Blue Jay)
Jimmy Key
Todd Stottlemyre
John Olerud (came pretty much straight out of college)

Add in some of the players listed above and that is pretty good for a 8 to 10 year run (like 85 to 92) of player development.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:35 (nineteen years ago) link

didn't key start out in the yanks' system, too?

as for 90s & aughts, don't forget...jay gibbons!

okay, you can forget him.

jonathan quayle higgins (j.q. higgins), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:52 (nineteen years ago) link

George Bell (drafted by Phillies, came up as a Blue Jay)
Fred McGriff (drafted by Yanks, came up as a Blue Jay)
Juan Guzman (drafted by Dodgers, came up as a Blue Jay)
Jimmy Key (according to jqh)

STRICKEN FROM THE RECORD (if we're talking strictly about players drafted by the Jays, which I was). Not that I'm knocking the front office's knack for recognizing talented players in other orgs and/or fleecing the Yankee farm system (which, in the '80s, was required by the Collective Bargaining Agreement).

But, yeah, I think the Jays' farm system now is comparable to what it was - the only problem is the guys they acquire from outside of their system (either through trade or through free-agent signage). And the lack of developed starting pitchers. And having to play in a division w/ the two most lucrative franchises in all of baseball, if not all of American professional sports. And Skydome doing double duty as a vacant lot between April & October. And the team's inability to stick w/ a uniform design & logo for more than 2 years before coming up w/ a worse design. Otherwise, thumbs up, Canada!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 21:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Key was drafted by the Blue Jays according to Baseball Reference.

I would still give the Jays credit for getting that talent out of the other teams minor leagues as there are bunches of players traded around that never do much at all. Whatever they were doing in late 80s early 90s worked, they were a perennial contender and won two championships. Some teams seem to develop one or two positions pretty well but the Jays came up with players all over the diamond.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 22:08 (nineteen years ago) link

The Chicago Cubs today acquired pitcher Roberto Novoa, infielder Scott Moore and outfielder Clarence “Bo” Flowers from the Detroit Tigers in exchange for pitcher Kyle Farnsworth and a player to be named later.
It's Bo b/c he plays both baseball and football, I take it. He's a Bermanism waiting to happen.

bo was the chicago sun-times high school athlete of the year a few years ago, he seems pumped at the opportunity to play for the cubs.

otto midnight (otto midnight), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:43 (nineteen years ago) link

So as the Hot Stove cools down, it is that time of the year...

Pitchers and Catchers report today for about 1/3 of MLB (Astros, Braves, Devil Rays, Giants, Indians, Marlins, Phillies, Pirates, Redsox, Rockies and Tigers).

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 17 February 2005 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.