If God wanted every soul to get to Heaven eventually, why did he create Earth in the first place?

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Is there a proper theological answer to this question?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 11:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

So people could pee in the sink and have anal sex, presumably.

edwardo, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 11:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

yup that will be free will

Kiwi, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 11:50 (ten years ago) Permalink

Yes, they had to choose to join Him in Heaven.

Is that what you are choosing, Tuomas?

The Real Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 12:06 (ten years ago) Permalink

god created free will to fuk wit us. he didn't have to, you know. maybe heaven was overcrowding.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 12:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

What God wants and what God gets are two different things. As above, so below. He did get a pair of boss Nike Cortezes, which I think compensates for all the people who strayed from the straight & narrow path.

Abbott, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 15:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

But what does Earth have to do with free will? God could still give the souls a choice to choose him or not if they were all living in Heaven, why did he need to build up this extraordinarily complex system just to serve as a backdrop for this choice?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:09 (ten years ago) Permalink

Also, why did God give that freedom to people anyway, if there's still only one right thing to choose, and the wrong choice gets you punished for eternity? What kind of a freedom is that?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

lighten up man god doesn't exist.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

I know, but I've always kinda wondered how Christians answer all these questions? Surely they must've thought of them.

(x-post)

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:13 (ten years ago) Permalink

Maybe you should become a Christian and find out. I hear good things about the Trappists.

Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

Isn't that a beer or something?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:14 (ten years ago) Permalink

feminist studies meets a proscribed suppressing of womankind = just the situation for tuomas the inquisitive

Just got offed, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

punishment for the fall, then. original sin and all that.

apparently lucifer dropped a dirty bomb in heaven back when all was hunky dory and earth is the celestial equivalent of a wash cycle at 60 degrees.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

Trappists are a silent order, I think is what Noodle means. Naughty Noodle.

Pashmina, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:16 (ten years ago) Permalink

http://i10.tinypic.com/2mo42uo.jpg

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:16 (ten years ago) Permalink

punishment for the fall, then. original sin and all that.

But hadn't Earth been created already before the Fall?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:17 (ten years ago) Permalink

in the gnostic cosmology, the earth is a profane creation of the demiurge

bell_labs, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:18 (ten years ago) Permalink

WELL, in the Mormon church, they talked about how there was a pre-existence. Jesus agreed w/his big man Daddy-O Godb, and said, 'hells yeah, u-mans need free will; I'll dies for their sins and all so those who want to, which really should be everyone, can get back here." And Lucifer, who was God's oldest son, was like, "Yo I have seniority here; everyone else should be able to get back here. Free will would stop them from doing that, let's just make 'em all automatons." So how they settles this was by having a big old war. A third of the people agreed with Satan, and fought on his side, which ultimately lost. SO in bitterness, they're all bodiless and tempting the shit out of us in some passive-aggressive manner. Mormon church has some huge emphasis on 'bodies are good,' God has a corporeal body & all.

They have little subset bylaws explaining the further whys & wherefores. I don't know about all this, but there's one explanation.

Abbott, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

WAR is the answer.

Abbott, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

i keep getting it mixed up with the silmarillion, tuomas, to be honest.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

I think if I seriously wanted answers to these questions I might google a bit or perhaps go to a library and check out some of the millions of books of theology that have been written since the year of our Lord. But that's just me.

Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

Yes I have understood it the way The Real Dirty Vicar and Abbott explained it.

Christians say He wants us to want Him. God is all powerful but He created mankind to be special in just this way. He loved mankind and so he set us free.

felicity, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:21 (ten years ago) Permalink

Dude is wacky!

Abbott, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:22 (ten years ago) Permalink

god hates chimps, they really piss him off. so he just invented us to make them look bad. but it backfired.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:22 (ten years ago) Permalink

At least he made anteaters.

Abbott, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:23 (ten years ago) Permalink

FTW!

felicity, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

After, like, two days of this, 'The Church' will have gotten boring despite all of Abbott's talents and charm. Short-termism in the extreme from the mods.

Just got offed, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

how does religion explain the existence of emos?

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

soory, obviously should be a separate board

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

fusk, honest freudian slip, promise i meant thread. promise.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:25 (ten years ago) Permalink

I think the way Abbott explained it, Satan was right. If it means we all get to Heaven, which is like the best place ever, and if God wants us all to get there, why should be given a choice about it? What inherent worth does freedom of choice have if there's only one correct choice?

Tuomas, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

emus?

Upt0eleven, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

GWB meet thomas

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:26 (ten years ago) Permalink

someone should explain the existence of emus.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

why not god? looking around the place, he's obviously not doing much with his time lately

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

Just got offed, I think you are underestimating the potential of THREAD OF DARK CONFESSIONS AND ATONEMENT.

felicity, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:29 (ten years ago) Permalink

yeah a pennance thread would be a very good idea i think

deeznuts, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:31 (ten years ago) Permalink

if they start that economics thread, you'll soon have a sneak preview of what purgatory is like i'd say.

darraghmac, Wednesday, 18 June 2008 16:32 (ten years ago) Permalink

"if God wants us all to get there, why should be given a choice about it? What inherent worth does freedom of choice have if there's only one correct choice?"

Tumoans in short because God values freedom over salvation, at least that was my understanding of the Catholic tradition. God ,part person, out of love wanted other creatures to share in what it means to be a person, to taste exisitence,being,freedom etc--to share in the richness of his own life, even at the cost of making the "wrong choice".

The ideas may sound abusrdly quaint and outmoded but the value of theology to me isnt really about knowing God stuff, its about understanding the part *the church* played in the formation of western culture and thought and by default perhaps the formation of ourselves.

Kiwi, Thursday, 19 June 2008 10:04 (ten years ago) Permalink

Why couldn't God just make us think we had free will? Wait a sec...

Michael White, Thursday, 19 June 2008 18:48 (ten years ago) Permalink

i feel sick

Surmounter, Thursday, 19 June 2008 18:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

tuomas asks way too many question to get into heaven, if i understood sister philomena correctly back in 1987.

darraghmac, Saturday, 21 June 2008 22:15 (ten years ago) Permalink

Why couldn't God just make us think we had free will? Wait a sec...

:) a xtian might ask you to explain exactly what this physical process is and how it works at which point youd say I DONT HAVE A CLUE, but my hearts not in it and I think youre right-- although in a practical sense given the complexity of the biological processes involved and sheer volume of potential stimuli ( right word?) "free will" will always exisit

Kiwi, Monday, 23 June 2008 11:14 (ten years ago) Permalink


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