How do you define sex?

In other words, does oral count? I have sort of a selfish reason for wanting to say it does, because I was sexually active for like six or seven years before I ever fucked anyone, and I want to be able to count that as "sex" when it comes up in conversation. Like, for instance, on that "shortest interval between two partners" thread? In neither case was there intercourse. But you know, for the purposes of a thread like that, it's pretty much the same thing, I think. And then not to get all Dworkin about it, but there is something phallocentric about claiming penetration as the distinguishing feature of sex, especially since for lesbian couples, for instance, penetration can only be accomplished through external means, and no one's going to claim that that's not actually sex.

At the same time, I think for a lot of people the word "sex" does imply "intercourse," end of story. So let's define our terms here.

Sex is direct interaction of genitalia, but there are permissible substitutes, where it becomes a grey area. Generally, I'd say rectal penetration = sex, oral isn't, but that's yer Western "third base" stigma for ya.

Sure, a beej is sex, but dude, 7 years????

Oral was definitely after direct interaction of genitalia for me.

Louis, there is so many things wrong with your post! Lol!

Yeah, kind of hard to fit gay sex into that def'n, eh?

Loujag in obtuse intellectual shocka.

Well, sex is a whole grey area, like, generally.

The "definition of sex" issue is much like the "definition of marriage" issue.

Yeah, sorry, I would define oral as sex. I mean, it's called oral sex, isn't it?

YOU"VE GOT A POINT

imo sex sex is anal/vaginal

Yeah, kind of hard to fit gay sex into that def'n, eh?

― Tetragram for Holding Back (libcrypt), Friday, 3 October 2008 23:27 (Yesterday) Bookmark

rectal penetration

Sex is direct interaction of genitalia,

So two guys slapping their dicks together are having sex?

Do not penetrate someone's rectum.

I should have stipulated that some sort of sensual pleasure has to occur, maybe the dick-slapping does that, who knows

rectal penetration

Sorry dude, I'll have to pass. I've heard what those loujag sex parties are like.

I agree that in theory oral should count esp in terms of defining lesbian sex etc. but usually when I think sex I think penetration. Also if someone were to ask how many people I'd had sex with I'd def count intercourse only. For my own definitions it wouldn't even occur to me to count oral. Not saying that's right but it's just the way it is.

My own definition includes oral.

LJ, do lesbians have sex?

man chill the fuck out lib

we all know what he meant

i cosign enbb

If they interact their genitalia, then yes (scissoring). Or if an adequate genital substitute is found (strap-on, double-ender etc).

Wut? I'm not being righteous. I'm just riding the jags. Common ILX sport, y'know. (xp)

Take it to Chatz! :D

No, it's just such a masculine-centrist heterosexist definition of sex that I can't accept it.

The definition of sex as "as penis going into an orifice" only makes sense if you hold that the penis is the definer of sex. And I'm sorry, it just isn't the only definer of sex.

I'd definitely count oral sex as sex, especially since for many people it's easier to get an orgasm with oral sex than with penetration. If another person gives you an orgasm via physical contact, surely that automatically counts as sex? (Though of course you can have sex without orgasms too.)

according to the dudes on this thread lesbians aren't capable of having sex

imo a working definition for having sex would be something along the lines of "physical activity intended for mutual sexual gratification," not "here's the chart if you didn't do the one at the top then you're not 'really having sex'" or other grade-school quasi-lawyer weirdness

I did suggest scissoring for lesbians. That falls within the bounds. Ditto use of a sex-aid that involves both participants' genitalia. Mere oral is an act that only physically gratifies one person sexually, no matter how much the other party is turned on by doing it. Maybe for lesbians, 69'ing counts as full sex. But the actions are distinct.

each time i read about 'scissoring' i make an efficient little snipping gesture with my fingers and then i feel less glum.

sorry :(

i didn't really mean it, you know.

well in that case, no holds barred: how do you define sex?

Anything Mrs V would kick me in the nuts for if she caught me doing it with somebody else.

So in that case, buying a cup of coffee for another lady would be defined as having sex?

I don't know what kind of relationship you're in, buster.

If another person gives you an orgasm via physical contact, surely that automatically counts as sex?

So then handjobs and manual clitoral stimulation count as sex? I can understand what you're getting at but as I said upthread for my own personal definitions I wouldn't count that.

I guess for me the vastly different ways that differently oriented couples are intimate with one another makes an across the board singular definition of sex nearly impossible.

Anything Mrs V would kick me in the nuts for if she caught me doing it with somebody else.

― Poll Wall (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 4 October 2008 13:50 (3 hours ago)

This, except Mrs P not Mrs V in my case.

This top-down notion of definition is so obviously Western and patriarchal and hegemonical I don't know why it's even in the title of the thread come on people definition is empirical and descriptive for one and for another why don't you let the people being described empower themselves by defining sex however they like?

This works for me:

"physical activity intended for mutual sexual gratification,"

Bearing in mind also that things that may be providing gratification "only for one person" may certainly be performed serially rather than in parallel and still fit this definition. Things do not have to happen at the same time for sex to occur.

I mean, otherwise, WTF? You can get into a hypothetical situation whereby a woman receives cunnilingus from her partner, she orgasms, the partner doesn't (at that particular session) - so what, the woman getting the orgasm has had sex but the partner hasn't?

Mere oral is an act that only physically gratifies one person sexually, no matter how much the other party is turned on by doing it.

Now, you've never actually had sexual contact with another person - right?

When I was stroking that guy's dick, certainly didn't feel all that gratifying to me.

uh

Ladies and gentlemen and G00gle, l0u1s jagg3r.

I mean, otherwise, WTF? You can get into a hypothetical situation whereby a woman receives cunnilingus from her partner, she orgasms, the partner doesn't [...]

― Cat Concern Charity Shop (Masonic Boom), Saturday, October 4, 2008 2:20 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah this happens

any act of physical union of the genitalia or anus of 1 person with the mouth, anus or genitalia of another person. It occurs upon any penetration, however slight. Ejaculation is not required.

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penetration, however slight, of the labia majora by a penis

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vaginal intercourse, anal intercourse, fellatio or cunnilingus between persons regardless of sex. Its meaning is limited to persons not married to each other. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient to complete vaginal intercourse, anal intercourse or fellatio and does not require emission of semen. Penetration may be committed by an object manipulated by the actor into the genital or anal opening of the victim's body.

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a joining of the sexual organs of a male and female human being in which the penis of the male is inserted into the vagina of the female or the penetration of the sexual organs of a male or female human being in which the penis or an object is inserted into the genitals, anus or perineum of a male or female.

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vulvar penetration as well as cunnilingus, fellatio or anal intercourse between persons or any other intrusion, however slight, of any part of a person's body or of any object into the genital or anal opening either by the defendant or upon the defendant's instruction. The emission of semen is not required.

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any act between persons married to each other involving penetration, however slight, of the female sex organ by the male sex organ or involving contact between the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of his or her spouse

Sure, a beej is sex, but dude, 7 years????

The short answer to this question is the girls I was with during this time weren't ready for it, and since I didn't know any different, it didn't bother me. I know now that intercourse is awesome, but back then just seeing someone naked and experiencing some degree of sexual pleasure with them was enough (sometimes it still is).

if oral sex was sex it would just be called sex like sex is just called sex duh

By that definition only penis-to-vagina intercourse is sex though, everything else has those labels. So gays and lesbians aren't really having sex, they just think they do.

well anal sex is only really called anal when youre talking about boys w/ girls, otherwise its just called sex, right? i dont know about girls <3 girls. is a woman who has only ever been with other women still a virgin? technically, yes. what makes you lose your virginity? this is pretty basic shit tuomas

So anal sex is sex only between gay men, but not between a straight couple? And if a lesbian couple only has oral sex or handjobs, they're not having sex? So they can only have proper sex with a dildo or a strap-on?

thats like the complete opposite of what i said, T.

Mere oral is an act that only physically gratifies one person sexually, no matter how much the other party is turned on by doing it.

I wonder whether Louis has yet encountered the concept of the "fake orgasm".

JOhn D, otm

lol @ ppl getting huffy about other ppl's definitions of sex

^^^ yes, keep it up, so to speak

Redefinition of marriage debate to thread.

"i believe marriage is meant to be a sacred institution between two unwilling teenagers"

how do you define sex

Sex before marriage when I was 'ligious: oral didn't really count as sex

Sex after: oral wicked counts as sex

according to the dudes on this thread lesbians aren't capable of having sex

Pauline Kael basically said this in a film review about 40 years ago (The Fox, I think).

Anyway, as Scott Thompson of TKITH said, if oral doesn't count, I'm a virgin.
(not ME, Dr M)

thank u 4 clarifying

that was just for jaymc's dossier.

how is sex formed

INformed. amirite?!