-=[THE SYNTH ZONE]=-

Synths, synths, synths, let us talk about all the synthesizers

They're great instruments.

SYNTH FACT OF THE DAY: Despite performing what is called "photosynthesis", plants are in fact NOT synthesizers.

do you a favorite synthesizer?

Are you an old school analog synth fetishist?

Fave synth, that's a hard question. I like synths where every function has a knob you can twist, so let's go with that. The Yamaha CS-80 is my dream machine, though. The recent Dave Smith synths like Prophet 12 are good contenders for My Fave Synth as well.

Analog synths do sound great (I own a Microbrute) but some of the analog-fetishism (or rather digital hatred) can seem ridiculous for some. After all, it's the player that makes an instrument sound good, not the other way around.

Speaking of analog and fav synths, if I owned this synth I would be happy for the rest of my life:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imuCQ3Do6lk

I am interested in what envelopes and VCAs sound like, usually the first thing I do when I check out a synth is how "snappy" the envelopes can get, how nicely the VCAs and filters respond to it, the percussive qualities. Buchlas sound like "pk" then "pup" then "plup". ARP 2600s sounds like "clk" then "cluck". Rolands and new DSIs do not have any percussive qualities that are as useful as those synths.

I love the sound of FM synth + analog filters these days and have been tooling around with a couple of Mutable Instruments objects that are very interesting. Switchable tuning! turn a knob and it's real, it's Pythagorean, pretty cool stuff.

FM synthesis definitely needs a comeback

My first encounter with FM synth (outside of pre-pubescent .cmf programming, and I didn't really get what was happening) (ditto a DX7 in high school) was with a Nord Wave, where it was suddenly like oh! I don't need to artificially create an overtone series? I really love the pairing of FM oscillators and analog filters, the Mutable stuff has been super fun. A friend of mine has a... Wave, PPG? what is it. Something like that. The big one. I played around with it but again the envelopes were mushy, it was all tone and no snap.

A studio I worked in had a CS-80 and it's not all that. When it came time for futuristic polysynth it was always the Jupiter 8-- which at this point has an equally ridiculous price tag

I know the CS-80 is mostly associated with Vangelis sounds although it is capable of more and may be not that great after all... but just look at that design! It seems like no other synth that came before and after the CS series has the same looks/design influences. As far as reliability goes.. at least it's not the PolyMoog.

Actually, now that I think about it, the Polymoog DOES share some design similarities with the CS-80

The CS-80 is surprisingly difficult to get into "dialling in" a sound, its interface isn't as intuitive later synths. Also tbrr I need MIDI or CV/gate connectivity, have the computer play the line while I work with the sound, and I don't know if that's a possibility for CS-80s (or if any owner would go for it if it was)

I don't have much use for MIDI to be honest, sitting at a computer and programming notes, I am unable to work like that (and I tried). It just doesn't give me the same kind of joy that touching a keyboard while twisting knobs does. But it's helpful when I need to synchronize several synthesizers.

You can also buy a MIDI kit for your CS-80 at a bargain price of 470 £!

Hmm, I get you. My process is this: typically I dial in a sound, record the take simultaneously as MIDI info and as audio, then save the patch (if applicable). When the song develops and suddenly I realize the synth is too glassy or too dark or whatever, or just wrong, I just feed the already-recorded MIDI info back into the synth and fix the patch in realtime. Not so fastidious, just an easy way to make changes.

A side note to this is that I've gotten so enamoured of my ARP 2600 that I rarely use any analog poly synths, I typically track each voice monophonically using MIDI-to-CV. The signal-to-noise on the ARP is so ridiculously low that you can track 10+ tracks of it and still have silence (provided you keep the spring muted). I love my ARP. I bought it with the money from a soul-destroying film gig several years ago, best decision ever-- though I'm told the Cwejman 2600alike is just as good/better (and cheaper and easier to service)

I usually dial in a sound, play along to the track and slightly change the settings until it fits in well, record (often with a metronome) and hope for a good take or two. Sounds risky and not as professional as your method, but personally I don't like having all these "safety nets" while working on creative stuff. Having this slight tenseness helps me concentrate and evaluate certain synth sounds, mixes and parts more. Like, every part you record could be the last one of your life.

The ARP 2600 is awesome and I wish I could own one. In fact, I wish I could own every classic monosynth. I'm more of a poly guy anyway, although in our multi-tracking DAW age monophonic synthesizers work just as well for me.

Speaking of awesome monosynths, Soviet synthesizers are rarely talked about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IMpElp0a_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rceP4hDkXi4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYEYzPW6mes

i was digital only for a few years but i'm getting into using analog synths more and more. it's baby steps, but i've been using a Microbrute (running straight audio) and i just got the Korg Volca Keys (controlled via MIDI).

i know a lot of dudes who are more into messing around with old gear and than they are into making records and i never want to be that, so i'm just getting hardware when i'm having a specific sound that i'm not satisfied with the digital version of.

speaking of, i really do think they both have their place...soft synths can sometimes cut through a mix much more easily.

haven't messed around with FM synthesis yet but i really want to, probably going to get NI FM8 to learn on.

"Always appreciate all kinds of synths and syntheses." - Synthfucius

Speaking of digital synths and new purchases - I'm about to get a Yamaha AN1x for 250 €. Way underrated VA synth in my opinion. And even if I don't need its sounds I can use it as a MIDI controller with velocity and aftertouch and whatnot.

Jordan, I agree with you re: creating music vs. farting around, but making bloopy shit can be fun and even cathartic sometimes.

Anyone get a Microbrute? Looks pretty sweet, especially for the price.

I use a Prodigy that someone in our practice space owns, and I love it, but the newer Moog stuff is $$.

I also just bought Korg Gadget for my iPad mini, which is pretty neat. I cannot find a software synth that comes close to sounding as good as the Prodigy, though.

Whoops just saw your post Jordan. What do you think of the Microbrute? Can you get big, squelchy sounds out of it?

i loooove it, and yes. mostly i've been using it for thick saw basslines and square-ish leads, and lfo chaos. it's very intuitive imo.

Awesome. I think I'm gonna get one. I wish it had another octave, and full-size keys, but other than that it looks sweet.

Unfortunately my main keyboard (Nord Electro) does not have pitch/mod wheels.

Also, I got to play a Jupiter 8 on our latest record, and DAMN that is fun to play.

Does anybody want to recommended sites or tutorials for gaining a practical understanding of synthesis? All I do is play with free VST synths at this point and I get the basics but I want to have a better handle on it.

Also own a Microbrute - it's brilliant. The minikeys aren't as shitty as on the MicroKorg, allowing you play quite smoothly. And it can do anything from exquisite to big and squelchy.

St3ve, check out the Synth Secrets series, should teach you a bit (start from the bottom): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Oh yeah, I had started in on those Synth Secrets articles but gotten sidetracked, thanks for reminding me.

i've had the most luck looking on youtube for either the VST i'm working with or general synthesis tutorials.

what are your favorite synths for bass sounds? that's the #1 thing I'm lacking right now. I've got an Oberheim Matrix 6 (I finally got it fixed!) which makes some really lovely & mellow sounds, and I also recently bought an MS-20 Mini but haven't done anything too ambitious with it yet.

the Matrix isn't very good for heavy tweaking on the fly though

read that as heavy twerking on the fly

uhm, I think your MS-20 mini should be able to produce some great bass sounds, although I personally don't like the KORG Sound, it's just too.. "crispy" and "defined" for my taste.

The MS-20 is a fabulous bass synth, probably the best currently-available combo going, in that regard? I always forget about it! So great.

yay for fixed matrix!

my fave bass machines are juno 60 & pro one

i'm in a snit with vintage machines at the moment though since my really fucking expensive prophet 5 hasn't worked at all since i got midi installed

Vintage synths can be so uncompromising, that's why I like them

Well, until they stop working of course.

ha. it wouldn't hurt so much if it didn't sound so incredible when it's working

Speaking of vintage synths, I just realized how much 70's and 80's library music has this sci-fi synth soundscape thing going on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di_HMqlO28E

So many broken synthesizers. ;_;

Green Day - Boulevard of Broken Synths

Actually I'm wondering: Has anyone here played a Synclavier?

no, but if i did i would make it say jammin on the one

I am fascinated/curious about what makes people say this or that synth is good for particular applications, or how to to understand the different character of different synths besides the dry technical details about oscillators and such. e.g. electricsound says he likes the Juno 60 for bass sounds but for whatever reason I associate Juno 60s more with string pads and like mini Moogs or Korg SH101s with bass sounds? Maybe those are just more obvious cliches?

Yeah, it's interesting since I always thought synths to be sonic all-rounders, even with their various configurations and designs. But maybe some people like the sonic capabilites of, let's say, an ARP Odyssey more than the capabilites of a Minimoog in terms of bass/lead/pad?/... sounds.

personally when i say the 60 is good for bass it is because it has nice snappy envelopes and very tight but not wooly low end. it can do string pads well too though, it it a p amazing machine tbh. i appreciate it even more now after five years than i did in my initial rushes of excitement when i first got it

also i have never played a minimoog or sh101

i need to step up my pad game

One day I'll type out my synth adventures but not today. I own a lot of synths. Maybe I will type it. Here we go.

Juno-106 - great entry level synth. Start here and end here if you plan to own house or children. Only issue is that the oscillators like to burn out, and replacing them involves ordering chips and soldering.

Juno-Alpha - teeny tiny, the B is velocity sensitive, super light, super durable, mine got the shit kicked out of it and it still works. There is a cool fifth- and sixth-stage on the envelopes, it's like an ADADSR, so you can make stuttery sounds. It is a pain to program. I bought a PG-300 (the programmer) from a guy who was looking at me like I was a sucker and then I sold it to somebody and understood what a sucker looks like. This takes a little effort to program properly but it's easier than a DX-7. It's good if you're somebody who needs to travel light.

Juno-60 - I think it's this one that has the miracle arpeggiator. Any time I want to do something arpeggiated I borrow one of these guys. I have never owned one but I use them a tonne. It receives clock in so you can send it pulses from Logic using beat mapper to live drum takes and have the arpeggiation stay in time. It also has CV-out so you can double it up with an ARP or a Minimoog. The "ensemble" function is famous and it sounds good, I never felt comfortable using it because any time I turn it on it's like "oh, that sound". This is a great synth and I'd own one except that I own a Jupiter 8.

Jupiter-8 - a weird synth. It's hella expensive, I bought it with a film score budget for a sci-fi movie. It is heavy (a two-person lift, really) and runs hot. The envelopes are too mushy to be really useful for percussion but they are good for bass and pads. I was working on a film where the director hated synthesizers, and he came by the house and kept asking for any noodles to be removed, he just wanted lame-ass indie piano/ukelele plunky-plunks. The Jupiter was the one exception, he loved the Jupiter. It does sound otherworldly, like The Best Synth Ever! But its arpeggiator sucks, it can't be controlled without MIDIfying it (and the kits are poorly reviewed so I haven't done it), it's not particularly routable, and it's too heavy and expensive to really be useful in any home studio. Mine is out on semi-permanent loan to a friend's studio until I get my own space for it, which will probably never happen. I don't know what to do with it, it's kind of like having a convertible in the garage.

Nords - they sound bad. There is something in that frequency spectrum that drives me crazy. Their pianos and organs sound "realistic" without sounding good, and they never sound good in a band. Nord synths are slightly better but still bad-sounding. All that said, I travel with and play a Nord Wave because it's light, it samples, the FM synths sound good, it's got built-in delay and reverb. You have to wrestle hard with these synths to make them sound good but the lightness, durability and usability makes it work it.

Nord Modular - especially these ones. Capable of sounding unbearably good. This is a DSP-run synth where you built a virtual modular on your PC and upload it into the hardware. Like, you drag and drop your modules on to an environment and connect them with patch cords. Super steep learning curve and, like other Nords, sounds terrible 99% of the time, but it worth it for that 1%. I am a thief, not a programmer, I download other people's architectures and tweak them. I have a Memorymoog clone on mine that is so precise in its emulation that it's uncanny. My Nord Modular is my DX-7 and my drum machine, what a great synth. Any time I need to do a shitty film score real quick I turn it on and the score is done.

ARP 2600 - my favourite synth ever, and the only one I use on recordings that I want to be proud of. It never sounds bad. The envelopes are enormously flexible, the CV modulation is amazing, you can build anything and get absolutely lost in creating self-generating patches. Sometimes if I have a houseguest I make a seagull + seashore patch and put it in their room. The spring is noisy but is fun to route sound through it and then back into other things. I am sending mine in to a synth spa in Savannah to get the ring modulator repaired and the connections tricked out. There is no HPF so you have to figure that out if you want to make hi-hats. There is no MIDI, but I use a lightpipe-to-CV converter; the added control of the Silent Way plug-ins is miraculous. I wish I was at home playing with this synth right now. Todd Terje says that the Cwejman S1 is just as good, better in other ways, and less expensive and that he's been using that these days instead of his ARP.

Mutable Instruments - I have a Shruthi and an Ambika. They are both totally awesome but I haven't found a use for either of them just yet.

I have a modular, too. I've lost a week of my life into creating beautiful, useless music with it, but haven't cracked it yet, made it feel like an instrument. I'll type about it another time.

the 106 is weird, i can't stand the results i get from playing one, but other people seem to be able to coax really nice things out of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0_q8XLiW7U

I ended up getting an Intellijel Plonk to go with Elements and a second Mutable Instruments Yarns to sequence both via my Digitakt.

I simply don’t have any room for non-modular gear atm but Novation have some good discounts:

https://store.focusrite.com/en-gb/categories/black-friday-2019

https://i.postimg.cc/Qxyr1m8P/419-BC452-3-F79-4986-87-C8-683-B741-DB2-BD.png

My current setup, and unlikely to change for a while - though there is space to expand.

what all modules are you using?

https://i.postimg.cc/zvY6bszS/4-EDD00-BD-BF05-4-D0-D-926-A-9-D4-FC5494346.jpg

^ though the Polivoks filter is from ELTA rather than Malekko.

Lots of Mutable Instruments, as I love their whole approach, and a bunch of Doepfer.

so fancy, but what does it sound like?

Anything you want it to! I’ll have to put something on Soundcloud.

Are eurorack modules all meant for monophonic stuff, or are there polyphonic modules?

Anything you want it to! I’ll have to put something on Soundcloud.

New board description (for "I Love Modular")

(sorry couldn't resist, it's just the stereotype of constantly generating but not finishing anything...your setup is really impressive, I'm just always looking for the practical application when it comes to gear)

Ha! No, that’s absolutely correct. I’m terrible at finishing stuff anyway so can’t blame the synth.

Xps, most Eurorack stuff is monophonic, though you can get some poly modules, like the new Doepfer stuff here:

https://www.gearnews.com/need-polyphony-in-your-rack-doepfer-polyphonic-eurorack-modules-now-available/

You can also do chords from a single trigger with some.

I wound up buying a few modules used (a Batumi, a Pamela's New Workout and a Music Thing Radio Music) but almost immediately shelved the idea when I started contemplating the all-in cost with the modules I planned out on modulargrid. Maybe someday it will be feasible but currently not so much.

Enjoying VCV Rack more since I decided to start completely ignoring anything with a bad GUI/small knobs no matter what it does.

i'm really fixated on the idea of doing a 32hp dirty little monosynth modular rig; leave the effects and other fanciness to pedals

I was kind of looking at the opposite - the effects are where modular is interesting to me, Make Noise stuff like the Mimeophon, Erbe-Verb and Morphagene go places that pedals can't.

(The Make Noise shared system is only, uh, $4500...)

that's a cool approach too!

I got an Ensoniq EPS-16+ off OfferUp for $100- shockingly everything works, menus are understandable and the built-in '80s delay & reverb is surprisingly good.

Came with one disk with a super cheesy Steinway sample and a "Hipness" drum kit that does not appear to have a kick.

Does that one have polyphonic AT?

I think so. Keyboard is really nice - pretty light and not quiet at all but it feels way better than the sub-$500 MIDI controllers at Guitar Center.

My first synth/workstation (in high school) was an ESQ-1, so I have a soft spot for Ensoniq gear. I had a KS-32 for a while but lent it to a friend a while back and never got it back from him.

I finally got a Volca Fm, and I'm happily using the presets while messing with the velocity and algorithms (while just as happily not learning anything about fm synthesis).

So the Microfreak is fun for easy & quick modulations, especially getting pitch-bending sounds, but it just doesn't sound great in a mix? I feel like I have to either add a pile of effects to make it plausible, or I end up replacing it with samples or a different synth. Not universally true, but it can have a quality that's a little aggressive and brittle/thin.

With the Volca FM, on the other hand, I almost feel bad that I'm barely doing any processing to the sound. It just sounds great raw.

you can get some wild sounds once you mess with the EG settings, but i usually just play mildly tweaked presets through fx

The latest Behringer clone is unexpectedly the Octave CAT

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/12/31/behringer-cat-synthesizer-clone-first-look/

just got my brand new benjolin in from derek holzer, hoping this will provide motivation to actually set up my studio space in the apartment i moved into like six months ago.

good iPad synth things lately:
AudioDamage Quanta - the only granular synth where I can get what it's doing rather than just turn every sample into noise or an atmospheric pad
ApeSoft Sparkle - resynthesizes two samples so that one takes on the qualities of the other

behringer is just shitting out synths like week-old sushi

Arp (Korg) teasing something that comes in a big box and has patch cables. Rumors of a Karp 2600 as per Jean Michael Jarre? Will probably cost less than what I paid to get my vintage one fixed last year.

always teasing something that comes in a big box

i feel like all that chinese sweatshop-built behringer mass-produced crap will break within a year

If the build quality is like their guitar pedals, then yes.

The construction of the Model D and Neutron seem perfectly fine, the DeepMind has been out for several years now.
Behringer has some shitty business practices but it's not like all the current Korgs and Rolands aren't being built in the same sweatshop factories.

does anyone make an affordable tactile sampler a la the dr. sample anymore

Roland still makes an updated version afaik (SP404).

fun. what about the maschine/maschine mikro? has anyone here used those? i don't really want to be tethered to a computer and the mikro looks hard to use without having it plugged into a laptop

yeah looks like those and the elektron model:samples require using a DAW to edit samples or sequence effectively

i had a volca sample for a while, it was kind of a nightmare to load samples into (via iphone app) but once that's done it's pretty self contained

The Elektron:Samples feels super crappy for the price - the buttons are squishy and the knobs aren't very responsive.
The Maschines are completely unusable without a computer I think.

Maybe a MPC 1000? I see them pop up locally for $400ish sometimes, they're usually listed for more online.

the roland sp seems like the best bet, i might just save up for a digitakt though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa3STYcrFAc
lol suck it Behringer

That thing is a beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8NVBHmQfRw

yeah it looks amazing

so i am a guitar caveman but had a chance to mess around with the Jupiter-Xm at CES and holy shit... i had no making music could be so EASY. i think i've been turned out lol. price of entry is a bit steep but between that and the wavestate i feel like i might be selling a guitar in the near future

New MPC One looks pretty slick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzM38LNaBQU

Behringer is going into modular with System 55 and System 100 clones at under $100 a module. Idk if I particularly want any of them. The System 100 phase shifter might be cool.

i'm not that interested but the meltdowns across the Modular Internet have been entertaining

(i have sold everything except for a macumbista benjolin which i run through a gauntlet of cheapo behringer pedals)

it's gonna be a bloodbath when behringer starts cloning mutable instruments modules

Have any of the Behringer synths been out long enough to see if they're reliable in the long term? I'm often tempted to buy one of the desktop units (Crave in particular piques my interest), but I don't want to plunk even modest dollars down on a synth that will crap out in five years.

So the Microfreak is fun for easy & quick modulations, especially getting pitch-bending sounds, but it just doesn't sound great in a mix? I feel like I have to either add a pile of effects to make it plausible, or I end up replacing it with samples or a different synth. Not universally true, but it can have a quality that's a little aggressive and brittle/thin.

With the Volca FM, on the other hand, I almost feel bad that I'm barely doing any processing to the sound. It just sounds great raw.

This has become increasingly true, to the point where I've made multiple keeper tracks based on the Volca FM, and will probably sell the Microfreak (RIP).

I'd like to replace it with another desktop synth to complement the Volca, maybe that Modal Skulpt? Any other ideas? Or maybe I'll just pull out the ol' Volca Keys.

I downloaded the demo of U-he Repro 1 and now I want one of the Behringer Pro-1 copies.

https://www.dreadbox-fx.com/chromatic-modules/

$100 a pop, curious as to how they sound. i bought the filter (looks like a MS-20 style make yr own bandpass thing) and the attenuverter/mixer/lfo, awaiting delivery