A thread for the ongoing saga of my new recording setup (and your advice).

2) Turn the buffer to a value of less than 1024 samples. You can also access this from the Reason preferences panel.

3) There should be a Control Panel app that installs with the Ozone drivers. Take a look at that & make sure that the Sync is set to Internal.

xpost

Cakewalk should also have its own preferences section where you can adjust the latency buffer. People are often freaked out by latency without realizing that it's almost always adjustable.

As far as things being "too adjustable" goes, this seriously shouldn't be a worry. A rule of thumb is to start at a setting of 256 samples. If you get digital glitching or "stuttering", crank it to 512, which will still you let play the MIDI keyboard with tolerable latency.

NEW PROBLEM: Even when set at medium latency, output through the ozone buzzes out and/or slows to half-speed every couple minutes. Installing ASIO4All seems to be cutting down on this, but it's still just totally horrible; not the hugest problem when it comes to recording MIDI, but I'm gonna get pretty pissed off if I get that in the middle of a vocal take, or something.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS: ??? -- Upping the latency would help, right, but I already feel like the timing is dodgy on audio recordings. Is there anything that could possibly help this, apart from better drivers?

- Echo Indigo I/O PCMCIA soundcard
- basic $99 M-Audio MIDI keyboard (larger range; it doesn't have the programmable knobs that the Ozone and Oxygen have, but that seems more useful for performing live and/or recording supercomplex Tangerine Dream style analog synth sweeps and burbles, neither of which I really do; I think I'll be content to automate any other knobs on-screen)

Either way, I've already (a) returned the Ozone, and (b) spent the next three hours running around town learning that nobody actually stocks the Indigo in-store. Hopefully I can find it somewhere, cause I kinda like having nearby return options if it doesn't actually get the latency down.

So yeah, hopefully the PCMCIA card will sort it out -- if only I can find one in the city. (Someone tried to sell me a $400 "substitute," which would have been half-tempting if I didn't still need to replace the keyboard.)

(By the way, many many thanks to everyone who's helped me out here!)

Yes, its about the capabilties of the hardware/driver not the interface, think about it USB is fine for requests to write/read data from a HDD, 1ms is practically a geological time period in comparison.

Latency only really counts when you are playing/adding effects live.

PS shows what you know, Pete, I looked in the phone book and there's no such thing as a jerk store!

Here's a short article on latency that reinforces my understanding:

http://soundwave.com/Htm/Articles/April/Audio_Latency.htm

If you're having problems because you are monitoring though the computer, I'd say a better buy would be a small mixing desk, removing the latency issue altogether.

Try some new hardware.

My question is simply: did replacing with another soundcard help? Is it a USB one? (This would mean that USB wasn't the problem, I'm hoping this is the case.)

(The upside to all this is I've spent about 16 hours mightily cleaning up inside my computer to see if this helped. It didn't, but.)

Man, I dream of the day when I can get a dedicated music computer, an interface, a legal version of Pro Tools or Ableton, and maybe 4 decent mics (not to mention a place to use it all), but that's looking at like three grand right there.

Oh, hello: I think I'm about to do this? I now do all my day-to-day computing on a little netbook anyway, so I'm thinking of putting together a good recording system and then ... well, not really needing anything new, computer-wise, for years and years.

Question 1: Does anyone have any experience with ADK Pro Audio? I'm pretty sure I'd get this box:
http://www.adkproaudio.com/systems/viewsystem.cfm?recordid=134

Question 2: Does anyone have any experience with this interface? I'm pretty sure I'd get it. (Or should I really move over from USB to Firewire?)
http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?product=15185

Those two things + new budget monitors (KRK 5) + PodXT + maybe even doing some crappy DIY room treatment -- I feel like this should be functional enough that it'd be hard to develop and major additional needs. Am I fooling myself? I don't work on anything particularly hi-fi, I don't do much room recording, I hardly ever get up to even 10 tracks in a song -- I feel like a set-up like this should be able to breeze through anything I do at top quality.

ADK pro audio have a pretty good rep, the main dude seems to know his shit, but i have no personal experience with them.

i used to have an E-MU card, a 1620 i think, but i wasn't a huge fan of it tbh. maybe the newer stuff is better? if you're only ever likely to record 2 tracks at once USB will be fine, i've never had any problem with stereo recording via USB, though firewire is usually recommended for anything more..

my tascam 4-track died recently and i'm trying to decide what to do about it:
1) pay to get it fixed or buy a "new" 4-track
2) invest in a better set-up for recording on my computer
3) buy a digital stand-alone multitrack, probably this: https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/digital-mixer-multi-track-recorders/multi-track-recorders/r20/

i already record 50/50 analog/digital - i do some stuff only on the computer (in reason), and even the stuff that starts on the 4-track, i usually end up adding more to it digitally once i bounce the tape recordings onto the computer. the rational move seems to be to abandon the 4-track and just focus on recording on the computer. however, i don't really enjoy recording on the computer as much as on the 4-track. it's more finicky and slower and has too many possibilities and it's more likely that something will go wrong that i'll have to invest time in trying to figure out how to fix, etc etc, ultimately i'm old and semi-stuck in my ways. which makes the digital multitrack idea an interesting middle ground - it's not as tied to dying tech but it's still a standalone option with physical faders and knobs etc. but maybe even that is trying to stay in some past that will probably disappear in the next few years?

I sympathize, NA. My Portastudio still works but it's honestly more trouble than it's worth these days. Because I know I'm just going to end up digitizing what goes into it, the only reason to record on cassettes is retro perversity.

For a long time I took the tape outs from an analog mixer into a cheap-ass USB interface. That worked fine, because I was doing one instrument at a time. Can't do a full band with meaningful separation, but then I rarely need to do that anyways.

Last year I broke down and got an Alesis mixer that has a USB out. It was really easy and I made a bunch of records with a bunch of people (pandemic energy).

So I'm still tracking in a world where microphones are pointed at bits of wood and metal and meat. But then I can manipulate the tracks in the computer so it's best of both worlds, maybe?

yeah if i was going to improve my digital setup it would probably involve buying a better interface that allows for live multitrack recording and boosting the memory on my old powerbook that i use for recording to try and speed it up some

i do think it's not just retro perversity that keeps me using the 4-track. i know how to get the sounds i want out of it and it keeps the recording process free from distraction/option overload.

I say stick with the analog 4-track! It's your instrument, if you like it and it's inspirational just embrace it imo.

that's a good point. i think part of the appeal of the digital multitrack is just being able to justify buying a new gadget. but my friend/drummer has offered to give me his 4-track that he never uses, so i should probably use the money i'm saving on that to upgrade my computer recording setup.

re: digital multitrack, have you checked out the Tascam mixer line? Model 12 is digital, 16 & 24 are analog mixers with digital recording capabilities. Very modern Portastudio.

those do look cool. for now i bought a USB mixer to use as a better interface and also a basic drum mixer for recording band stuff on the 4-track. i'm still thinking about upgrading my computer setup and/or eventually buying a standalone digital multitrack.

man i think i am going to eventually have to figure out a new setup for recording multitrack live. 4-track doesn't seem sustainable in 2022, which is a bummer, but it would also be nice to be able to have separate tracks for each of the drum mics and fiddle with the mix after recording.

am i correct that doing this requires investing in a more powerful mixer than my basic shitty behringer mixer?

Could you get, like, one of those Zoom multi-track recorders and daisy chain that into one of the channels of your four track?

I'm the last one to talk, since my current recording setup for drums is one mic (Audio Technica AT2035, which has become the best mic I own by far) > basic shitty Behringer mixer > going from the stereo out to my ancient Roland Edirol. Honestly it works great for a mobile recording setup without a laptop, although the Edirol eats batteries (never had a power supply for it) and the casing is becoming weirdly gummy and sticky.

NA, there are definitely mixers and interfaces out there that can provide a discrete track per channel. It is definitely a higher price point than straight to two-track though.

I have an Alesis Multimix that works very well for my purposes at $150ish. My workflow is peculiar though. I am either meticulously recording a few instruments at a time, or doing a pretty simple live thing. Separation isn't a high priority for me.

What you are asking for (having separate tracks for each mic, plus the ability to manipulate them digitally) is tougher. It can certainly be done - price of entry seems to be more like $500

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SLAR8c--presonus-studiolive-ar8c-mixer-and-audio-interface-with-effects

BUT (big BUT) two things:

1. If the noises are being made in one bleedy space, track separation will not help you much.

I sometimes play in a studio where my drums are all individually and lovingly mic'd... but ten feet away there's a wall of snarly guitar amps churning out the shredness.

If we wanted to move one snare hit that was a smidgen late, it wouldn't really work, because I'm in their mics and they are in mine.

So it's basically the same as my own cheap-ass two-track setup!

2. You can do a lot of trickery with fake multitracking. For example, I can record to two-track with hard panning (like, put the guitar hard left and the vocal hard right), and then separate the resulting stereo track. Boom. Multitrack.

I sometimes record a guide track that is guitar, vocal, hat, and snare. From there I have options: keep that and just overdub things until it sounds full, or just replace everything track-by-track and delete the guide track.

oh i'm not worried about bleed, everything i record is ultimately pretty lo-fi/trashy anyways, but it would be nice to have a modicum of control over the individual levels. right now when i'm recording with friends live, we don't usually have much time so it's just set up, make sure we're getting something usable, and go. but i'm hoping to someday have my own space where i can have a more permanent setup and finesse the sounds a little more, so i want to plan ahead for that too.

Ok. For garagey sounds I generally just go straight to two-track using whatever interface is handy.

As noted, something like the PreSonus USB mixer could give you your desired control over levels.

Moving a specific snare hit a micrometer to the left probably won't work - honestly I would rather just punch in and crossfade. Or record another complete take!

My songs last three minutes. If it would take an hour to edit, I'd rather just play it again and hope it goes better.

I'm the last one to talk, since my current recording setup for drums is one mic (Audio Technica AT2035, which has become the best mic I own by far) > basic shitty Behringer mixer > going from the stereo out to my ancient Roland Edirol.

Ok, now I'm debating about buying a Tascam DP-008EX so that I can get an additional mic (plus the built-in mics for some extra room sound I guess) for my basement drum recording. Anyone used one?

I won't try to dissuade you from that particular piece of equipment if it seems right for you workflow.

But, um, why? Like, I have used and loved several Portastudios. But I kinda feel like we've moved past them?

Hear me out: A USB mixer does everything a Portastudio does, and more. A Portastudio does not do everything a USB mixer (or dedicated interface) does.

Unless I am missing something.

Further, one mic is a bold move and can work, I guess (I have made some decidedly adequate recordings of drums with one or two or three mics).

But do consider something more like a Glyn Johns kinda thing if you want to record a full drum sound on a budget.

It's not about the mixer, I have a mixer (the classic shitty Behringer). Unless USB mixers can record digital multi-tracks these days. It's just about being able to record multiple mics to separate audio files without using a computer. And that's just because my drums are in a separate room from my computer + interface.

This would replace my cobbled together one-mic recording setup (where I could plug more than one mic into the mixer, but it would all go to one track on my old digital recorder). Honestly I got so deep into working with one mic for that sample pack I put together that an additional mic or two would be like an explosion of options (and I wouldn't more than that, for the kind of gritty, compressed sound I'm going for).

Jordan, USB mixers can definitely record multiple mics to separate audio files. But the intended destination is necessarily a computer in these setups. Sounds like you want a studio-in-a-box setup.

As you sound pretty committed to not using a computer, I will not try to dissuade you; best of luck working in the way that makes sense to you.

Jordan, USB mixers can definitely record multiple mics to separate audio files. But the intended destination is necessarily a computer in these setups. Sounds like you want a studio-in-a-box setup.

Yes that is the goal, no computer. My music computer is a desktop and the 8-channel interface is fiddly, the setup stays where it is (and the room is too small for a drum kit, and doesn't sound as good as the basement corner). There are some interesting mixer options out there (some of them can record to an SD card too), but those are all $400 - 1000 list. I'm trying to stay in the "make a profit on Bandcamp" zone. :)

Anyway a friend has the same Tascam, so I'm just going to borrow it and test it out on some recordings.

Finally got sick of limping along with Reaper and a 2011 MacBook.

Just got a 2020 Air with the M1 chip and am going go switch to Logic. Very excited. Reaper has been great and it was certainly a great way to get into home recording but everything is so goddamn hard to figure out sometimes. Like two nights ago I updated and it all of a sudden forgot all my plugins for no reason.

I still use a 2007 MAcbook with Garageband 09

https://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/547630/apple-garageband-09.html?page=10

I do miss being able to separate vocal and guitar tracks at once mixer-wise

I recorded a couple drum tracks for an album using that Tascam DP-008EX. After getting over the hump of figuring out the 90s-ass user interface (at one point I 'recorded' 20 min of takes that were not actually recorded), I ran into a weird problem where I couldn't get both of my mics working:

-Mic A wasn't working and Mic B was
-Swapping the inputs didn't matter
-Swapping Mic B's cable to Mic A DID matter, and then I got Mic A (the better mic) working instead of Mic B. This was weird, since the 'bad cable' is actually the nicer cable, and I've used it for recording into my computer/interface plenty of times recently.

So I decided to go ahead just using Mic A and the built-in stereo mics on the Tascam. Surprise! When I mixed the drums, the built-in mics sounded fantastic. Even better than my Audio Technica AT2035 mic, and they almost sounded like an overhead even though the thing was just sitting on a stool next to my hi-hat and snare. Crazy.

Anyway the tracks were totally usable, and the setup worked well for the kind of jazzy Low-style drumming I was doing (just snare drum, floor tom, and cymbals, lots of brushes and mallets). Adventures in home recording.

finishing up one last recording using our drummer's broken-ass cassette four-track is reiterating to me that i really need to come up with a new system for recording going forward. this thing (tascam dp-24sd) seems like a good option for me. kind of a half-measure between the old-school analog 4-track and recording on the computer, and seems like used/refurbished ones show up for pretty cheap fairly often. i really don't think i can go to a fully computer-based setup without upgrading my laptop and interface, which is a much more expensive proposition, and i don't really enjoy recording on the computer (though i do it as well).

i'm about to convert a 8x20 foot shed into a recording studio/office. any advice on soundproofing would be appreciated

Update to the above: turns out I do have a bad XLR cable, the monster cable just isn't working period. I'm sure it's a simple fix that I'm probably incapable of.

I have to do some brass band recording in my smaller upstairs studio where I actually have my computer and interface. That's pretty hilarious too, I don't like or trust the 'takes'/lanes thing where I can't see my previous take, so whenever I record a partial take and then punch in I'm creating cascades of new tracks to record on.

Heez, do you mean soundproofing inward, soundproofing outward, or both?

The standard advice is: you can acoustically treat a room so that it sounds good in the room. Reflections, bass traps, etc. Loads of foam thingies out there.

But if you are playing rock music with acoustic drums, it will leak. If you have neighbors, they will hear it.

If you want a really "soundproof" room - that is, nothing in or out - you need to construct a room within a room. Framing, insulation, etc. Thousands of dollars and months of project management. More of both if you want it to have ventilation, AC, heating.

yeah, the shed is on the back of our property so i'm trying to minimize the sound coming out for my neighbors sanity. and yes, acoustic drums, keyboards, guitars and stuff. it's actually a 16x20 foot space but we're splitting it down the middle and will have a framed room on one side with drywall, heat/ac, electric. someone mentioned using some putty between the studs and the drywall that reduces the noise going out, but i think it's gonna leak regardless

this is an insane deal if anyone is looking for a multitrack digital recorder

https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-H6-Portable-Microphones-Interface/dp/B086653VSH/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=zoom+h6&qid=1667929075&sprefix=zoom+h%2Caps%2C111&sr=8-5&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

Yoooo thanks for the heads up!

hmmm

I can't imagine the Zoom would be enough for you though, unless you just wanted to capture the tracks and mix in the computer? Perfect for my needs.

nah probably not what i'm looking for, though the price is tempting

Noooo

Hello Jordan,
We're writing to inform you that your order has been canceled. We're sorry for the inconvenience this has caused. In most cases, you pay for items when we ship them to you, so you won't be charged for items that are canceled.

Either they sold out, or it was a mistake/not real to begin with?

Ah: We wanted to inform you that the seller of your order is no longer active on Amazon.com and we have canceled your order.

About Seller
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If you want a really "soundproof" room - that is, nothing in or out - you need to construct a room within a room. Framing, insulation, etc. Thousands of dollars and months of project management. More of both if you want it to have ventilation, AC, heating

ok i'm doing this. think using green glue and mass loaded vinyl but if anyone has any advice i'd love to hear it

talked to some specialist in soundproofing and i think i'm going mass loaded vinyl on the studs and drywall on top of that

not as big a savings as the fake sale above obviously but sweetwater has the zoom h6 (and a lot of other zoom recorders) on sale for cyber monday

i'm tempted by this one: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/R20--zoom-r20-16-track-recorder-interface-controller-workstations. reviews make it sound like it would work well with my recording style (quick and dirty).

Thanks, I might pull the trigger on the H6 (again).

Weekend recording diary:
I spent all weekend recording drums for a brass band record in my upstairs studio, where my computer and audio interface is. I don't quite have room for a kit up there, but just enough room to record a bass drum and snare drum/cymbals separately. I dragged up the foam topper from the guest bedroom and a bunch of couch cushions to reduce the parallel walls boing, and used three mics for each drum.

It was somewhat intense recording loud drums in a small room for a long time, especially when I needed to crank up the headphones to hear the track properly in some sections, as well as engineering myself (stepping over to the computer constantly in-between takes). But I can't imagine this particular 9-minute medley getting done in any other way, I'm so glad no one else was there.

There were some hilarious home recording snafus along the way (realizing that one of my track groups had a wrong mic input setting, so I had to redo everything I recorded on that group), but it's done and I'm very satisfied with the results.