guitar NEWB thread

My wife, completely out of the blue, bought me a guitar for Christmas that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay nicer than anything I would have considered as a starter instrument. I have a Hal Leonard "teach yrself guitar!" book/DVD that I have started looking at (it is really frustrating, btw, to be good at singing and then attempt to learn to play an instrument; the advantage of having your instrument being hardwired into your brain cannot be overemphasized). Anyway, I am two strings into the self-teaching lessons and some thoughts occurred to me that I figured I would throw out at y'all.

fun!

xp YOU ARE ONE OF US NOW!

I already know a good amount of music theory; I can read treble clef and chord nomenclature and feel like I'm maybe an afternoon's study away from saying with confidence that I can read guitar tab (obv playing it is another thing entirely). I also already knew the notes on the guitar strings. As a result, a lot of the beginner lessons are really aggravating and slow to me; I think I skipped like 4 chapters to get to the mechanics of actually playing the instrument.

- I am considering lessons. Given my musical background and that I'm primarily looking to play stuff that would fall into the rock/pop/indie buckets moreso than anything blues/jazz/classical, what would you recommend I look for in a teacher?

- As a beginner, how often would you recommend practicing? I don't want to cripple myself attempting to toughen up and strengthen my fingers, but I also don't want to slack off to the point where I never make any progress.

- At what point should I go back and actually learn what the various parts of the guitar are called? When does that matter?

learning the parts of the guitar only matters when you need to work on it--lets say when you need to change strings for the first time.

i don't think you need to worry about crippling yourself in the early stages--i mean just respond to your body i.e. if your fingertips are killing you don't play and let them heal a bit.

I'd recommend practicing every single day, for an hour each day. It's better to do that than practice only once or twice a week. Also you might want to use something like a Gripmaster to build up strength.

based on your background i'm not sure how much utility lessons are gonna have for you. if you do go forward you prob just need someone to help you play along with songs, learn some of the common tricks and shortcuts and how ppl actually put chords together, etc.

if i may grossly generalize lessons tend to most benefit ppl who want to *shred* and i don't know how interested you are in learning what we'll call "lead guitar."

lol yeah, I'm not super interested in shredding, and I was thinking that most teachers would either point that way or towards classical guitar, which I'm also not interested in

mostly I was looking at lessons in terms of having someone to call me out on how I am holding the thing and finger placement on the frets etc; I'm also slightly concerned that my short, stubby fingers are going to make this whole thing a fool's errand but I'm not going to let that stop me

ok, yeah, a lot of that type of stuff you'll pick up naturally over time but if you wanted to shortcut the process a bit you could go find someone and be like "i am an experienced musician who is new to guitar" and see how that goes.

not sure what type of learner you are but one thing that always helped me was just having the guitar in my hands even if i was not focusing on practicing something or playing something (like while watching a movie or some other passive activity). just kind of playing mindlessly to get used to chord shapes and transitions and stuff like that.

this is also a great way to annoy people around you and is easier on electric (not plugged in, obv). what kind of guitar did you get?

lol that is an excellent question that I don't want to answer until I am back home with the guitar in my sight

it is some variant of Gibson Epiphone, I can tell you that with certainty

I'm going to say that finger size/geometry isn't going to make a lot of difference. The thing to remember is that the suggested finger placements for chords are not set in stone, and they can be changed around to make it easier for your particular finger length/width.

(if it's unclear, it's an electric; I also got a small Fender amp to go with it, and lol a Monster Cable, thanks honey)

lol monster cable!

i will actually semi-defend their guitar cables at least as an alternative to cheap crackly cables that i threw out.

anyway that's actually perfect because unplugged electric is the best way to practice guitar without annoying your loved ones.

I will be testing that tonight!

hahah

Annoying guitar practice story: one of the people I shared a house with at university was learning to play the guitar. Every night from his room we'd hear the same series of notes over and over again, but I could never work out what tune he was trying to play. Anyway, one night I walked in while he was playing and there was a guitar book open on top of his amp that was open at 'Purple Haze'.

lol

classical guitar, which I'm also not interested in

aw don't cry, I might change my mind

the only song I've tried to play is "Faith" by The Cure, and that is only because I taught it to myself 20+ years ago on my brother's guitar

hmm some stray thoughts here

you already know basic music theory which puts you ahead of 99% of people who pick up a guitar. like, just knowing the concepts of chords and scales and how they fit together modularly is enough to get the handle on what is happening in 99% of pop songs, but that's not news probably

two things to remember tho are that guitars are polyphonic, so you get into stuff dealing with chords that many other instruments never touch as part of their pedagogy. also because of the nature of the neck and the nature of a lot of pop music guitar instruction is big into modes where as in more doctrinaire classical training those are kind of a historical afterthought. i came at guitar from a childhood of violin so those two things stuck out to me.

the other thing to remember is that the physical nature of the standard tuning, the frets, and the human hand is responsible for how a lot of rock music ends up sounding. for ex the ringing/droney/arpeggiated folk stuff to keith richards to chuck berry is just dumb simple stuff to your hands but makes unique-sounding harmonies. the whole corpus of blues-rock licks is almost a physical vocabulary as much as a musical one. idk if that makes sense.

as far as looking for a teacher i'd say find someone who is on your level theoretically so you can communicate that way if need be but is willing to walk you through the traditional guitar stuff, which is all very non-traditional classically

i'm probably underselling the complexity of chuck berry there; his playing sounds simple to us out of repetition but the guy could fucking shred, his scale runs have a lot more color than just pentatonic, the double stop runs are lightning fast but totally clean, he's still amazing and i can't play any of his classic solos for shit.

I am thinking the three years of piano I took as a kid and the rudimentary exposure it gave me to polyphonic music on one instrument are going to be helpful

dude absolutely positively get lessons and do it sooner rather than later

protip: as a dude in boston, you should def make sure that yer guitar instructor has at least a formal real deal BA in guitar performance.

as a trained violin dude who didnt take any guitar lessons at all i am sad to think of the years (literal) i wasted by not learning stuff correctly in the beginning. and tbf i still play guitar "wrong" even now in a lot of ways.

dude absolutely positively get lessons and do it sooner rather than later

protip: as a dude in boston, you should def make sure that yer guitar instructor has at least a formal real deal BA in guitar performance.

Don't think there is any stigma in getting a teacher. Based on anecdotal first hand observation in NYC, jazz guitar players are constantly taking lessons from each other, playing duets together and just generally hanging out with one another being guitar dudes

I must admit I am envious - learning to use the guitar as an interface to produce music, when you already know some stuff about how music works, sounds idyllic to me.

As DJP and goole already noted, a huge amount of early guitar instruction is stuff like: this is what a note is, this is what a scale is, this is what a chord is, this is what I and IV and V mean, this is what minor and major mean. Not having to wrap your brain around that stuff when you're also wrapping your fingers around the guitar must make a huge difference.

I am not a particularly good guitar player but I really enjoy the peculiarity of the guitar-as-interface. The layout is both so bizarre (compared to a linear keyboard) and so friendly (in terms of giving you immediate feedback about what you're doing) it can't help but affect the music you make and don't make.

The guitar makes suggestions to you. When you're fingering a particular chord shape, there will be other notes that are more or less easy to reach; you can choose to accept those suggestions or resist them. Sometimes the result is cliche; sometimes it's great. Guitars like some keys more than others; you can choose to go along with that tendency or work to subvert it.

Um, anyway good luck and godspeed

jjusten totally totally OTM and yes you live in the one city other than LA where super-competent gtr instructors like fall out of trees.

ime the first few months are tough and then as your fingers get stronger and smarter everything just opens up and it's beautiful

Dan, the first thing you should get your new teacher to show you is what a Power Chord is.

first off- congrats on the guitar!

second- ditto on lessons, between your personal contacts and craigslist there should be no problem finding somebody you vibe with.

finally- i'd start off learning some basic open chords: a, am, c, d, dm, e, em, f, g, g7... you'll find you can play a ton of different songs with basic open chords, and they are a good first dance for your fingers to learn

oh almost forgot the most important advice: Do Not Keep The Guitar In A Case. get a stand, put it on the stand near where you spend lots of time (couch, computer area, etc.) so it is in reach & readily available.

-'case kryptonite' is real, i started playing way more once i started keeping my guitar out.

case kryptonite totally real. also, that is good advice to not fuck with b chords...yet.

...or you could drop your low E to D and proceed directly to Soundgarden 'Outshined'.

edit: "between your personal contacts and craigslist there should be no problem finding somebody you vibe/DIE with."

sidebar- anybody ever skype guitar lessons?

lol, the guitar is on a stand already but is currently in the back bedroom; I am working up the courage to move it to the living room where I expect my wife will lovingly notice that the wonderful gift she gave me is totally in the fucking way and is going to get knocked over plus it just causes clutter and why do I have to play all the time while she's trying to watch TV, anyway

or maybe I'm just inventing all of that

I did some cursory guitar teacher research and there's something undeniably off-putting about seeing a guitar school with a 20-year-old on their teaching staff, no matter how impressive her performance bio appears to be

I mean, maybe this is totally ageist of me but I do not want to take lessons from someone the age of a hypothetical child I could have had assuming my life had taken a slightly different turn

'case kryptonite' - never heard it called that before, but yes, have the guitar and amp set up so that you can pick it up and strum away for ten minutes (which will quickly become two hours but that's another thing).

is it wrong that I want to tune the entire guitar a half-step down so I have an instrument that matches my preferred singing range, before I've even learned how to play it

you know who tuned a half step down? weezer.

Eb tuning, very 90s :)

yeah the more i think about it like every fucking alt rock band used that tuning. it was really annoying.

http://www.wfu.edu/~breckers/howtoplayguitar.htm

DJP you can learn the songs of metallica's "load"

yeah the more i think about it like every fucking alt rock band used that tuning

that's because every fucking alt rock band in the 90s was fronted by a yelpy baritone

you should just capo the 11th fret instead

Then cut the neck off immediately behind the capo.

I'm sure your new teacher, Mick Goodrick, author of The Advancing Guitarist will be very impressed with this instrument

Eb = Hendrix tuning. Eddie Van Halen too. Stevie Ray too, I think...

Slash

Have you practiced yet this weekend yet, Dan?

haha have I practiced yet

I spent 90 minutes Saturday afternoon playing simple songs from my lesson book on strings 1 and 2, including "Jingle Bells" and "Ode To Joy" (which btw was annoying me because the version in the book was super simple and all in half and quarter notes and without the drop down a fourth at the end of the third line, so I started playing it "right" and using the third string as well).

Then, I started playing the C scale during the 2nd half of the Saints game and kept playing it and random songs until the end of SNL.

Then I started working on really incorporating string 3 yesterday for about an hour but my evening shenanigans really did a number on my fingertips and shoulder.

Need to pick a teacher this week.

It's a good thing to learn, because then when you play chords you can throw in little basslines/licks/fills and it gives you a nice little stylistic edge since a lot of people don't play that way today (whereas in the 60s it was pretty common)

Do you ever take a melody and just strum in the rests? Like you could do "Oh when the saints" (strumy strummy strummy strum) "go marchin in" (strummmmmm a strummy strum) etc. -- it's a good exercise

I can tell you that back in jr. high school when I was taking lessons I probably made it 1/4 way through the Hal Leonard Guitar Method 1 book. I did't want to practice Au Claire de la Lune or Greensleeves.

xp: Yes! that's another thing that I'm doing too, going back and forth between the melody and the chord or root.

I moved this summer and my guitar is now in a room with a computer so I've been playing a lot more - watching videos on youtube and figuring out how to sort of play Ziggy Stardust, Karma Police, Can You Get To That, Mr. Brownstone, etc.

But playing along is still all I do, and I am still totally stupid about scales, positions, keys, and any music theory stuff. I have no idea where to get started and it feels like I will have to force myself to do this and it stops being fun. Which sucks, as this is how it's been for the last 15 years.

Well yeah getting beyond that is going to require some vegetables-eating, just like you don't get much better at basketball if all you ever do is randomly chuck up shots. But don't make it so huge for yourself, just pick one thing and learn it gradually -- how to play a major scale in a few keys (off a few different chords) or something like that. A lot of this stuff builds on itself so once you get a certain amount of base knowledge it gets easier to learn more.

I think it's more that I need to find some specific list of things to work at on a daily basis that progress and build on previous knowledge but am overwhelmed by the options.

I got really good at cooking because I had to eat everyday so I practiced fundamental things over and over. My guitar playing is more like ordering takeout all the time.

The key is to make a very small, manageable list. It won't be "complete." You won't come up with the perfect practice routine. Doing something is better than doing nothing.

Do you workout? It's not that different than with working out -- unless you're a fitness nut you can drive yourself crazy trying to figure out exactly what to do and how to cover all bases and you wind up not going to the gym at all in the end. Better to just do something. That 20 minutes you wind up spending upgrade walking on the treadmill is at least exercise, whereas wringing your hands about what workout to do is not really.

just keep stumbling through satin doll until you can play it perfectly in 20 years

It's something that sort of fascinates me about the human mind and learning process tbh -- how you can keep doing an activity for years but actually not get better at it unless you take specific concerted steps -- the fact that there are just walls that you hit if you don't consciously direct yourself over them.

Hurting otm throughout, painfully so.

i just want a basic but not-trash electric guitar because i'm in my 30s and filled w regret and want to try learning again

what do i get

or should i just get a ukulele

Are you still in town? Because I know a guy

i am not 8[

but you are just the guy i was hoping would show up

Gimme a price range.

fwiw u live in a golden age of affordable electric guitars

big fan of the squier classic vibe tele custom fwiw but: trust in jjj

range would be sub five hundo but ideally sub three

I really like my G&L Tribute ASAT. You can pick them up (and many of the other Tribute models) for under $500.

G&l tribute fallout is amazing, hagstrom ultra swede, several Eastwood models come to mind as well.

Through a weird series of events I wound up with a Johnson Solara -- under $300 and great imo.

Curious if you agree jjj

oh that ultra swede looks v nice

Agree with jjj on the fallout. At least from the demos I've heard it sounds like a super versatile guitar. Would love to get my hands on one someday.

btw Rocksmith original version is on sale at Steam at the moment, just bought it cos it has loads of songs I like on DLC that I can't play in Rocksmith 2014 without owning the original game.

is it a bad idea to buy a used guitar that suffered damage to the neck that was then repaired by a luthier?

In my experience, once the neck broke it was always a weak spot. I had a Les Paul that fell and had its headstock shorn off. I had it repaired once and it broke again a few years later. had it repaired a second time and it broke again a few years later, so I sold it off as a "project" guitar.

per the listing (it's an ebay ish) it did not break all the way through

Terrible, terrible idea. The problem is not that it will break in the same spot, but that the wood fibers on either side of the neck have been greatly compromised. One more drop or fall could be unrepairable.

good to know, thx jjj!

so i got an ebay ultra swede

should i take it into the local shop to get "set up" is that what you're supposed to do

iirc you are supposed to play cliffs of dover

hahaha oh man i str8 up thought that song was the fucking coolest

dan meme4 months ago

So good. I thought it was Joe Satriani for the longest time. This is one of the few songs without vocals that give me a lump in my throat. Emotional, progressive, futuristic, past ,present and heavy all rolled into one. This one of those songs you want played after a lifetime accomplishment with your hand raised in triumph.

lol that is otm

I loved cliffs of dover during the time of my life when I'd read the sweetwater catalog in the bathroom and dream of being rich enough to buy my friend Roland V-Drums so we could really show up the rival high school band by playing cliffs of dover at a pep rally or something.

so i got an ebay ultra swede

Uh.

I did have 3 of these new and one used fyi.

I want to ask how much you paid, it might soothe my wounded soul

i'm going out on a limb and saying 279.95

oh no!!! sorry jj, i figured this would be the cheapest -- i didn't realize you had used

No worries dude, if you paid $280 I would have only saved you $25 and I'm so stupid busy that not having one more thing to ship is probably best for me anyway.

Re: setup, check this out and act accordingly:

Public service announcement: how to set up your own guitar/bass and not pay for others to do it...

ah, cool post. thanks for that.

my fingers hurt

went through a bunch of this guy's youtubes, too, the website is v organized: www.justinguitar.com

Came across that website whilst looking for something else. Seems like it might be useful.

you know, I never got a teacher

I should change that, especially since I picked the guitar back up this week after a LOOOOOOOOONG hiatus

btw I'm learning the lead guitar part to "Ana" by the Pixies, which is fun

I can recommend a couple of good teachers who Zoom. They’re west coast based but that may not be a bad thing if you’re looking for post-work hours.

As a crap player who has settled comfortably into the “friend’s older brother who used to play a little” skill level i’m also happy to hop on Zoom 4 u

ooh I am interested