The "bad guy" in the band: who are the other Mike Loves in music?

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I just read Peter Bagge's great defense of Mike Love. I don't buy it all, but definitely a good read: http://www.mbird.com/2012/05/beach-boys-101-peter-bagges-in-defense-of-and-praise-for-mike-love/

I'm wondering if there are others you can think of who fits the Mike Love role in the Beach Boys narrative that Bagge disputes. There's some villainy in Johnny Ramone's story, though he doesn't get the "untalented" rap Mike Love has (for good reason). Jagger seems like a bit of a dick, but doesn't quite fit the Mike Love role, I think.

What Mike Love, Johnny Ramone, and Mick Jagger do seem to share is their roles as the businessmen of their groups: the ones who got shit done and kept things together while their drug addict/mentally unstable/genius partners derailed things endlessly but still got the glory. The organization man is not a loved figure in rock n roll. McCartney gets a bit of this hate from some quarters too maybe.

And the keeping-shit-together skill isn't always a virtue - it could be argued that these three were the ones who pushed their bands into pumping out increasingly pedestrian work past their prime, and the Beach Boys, Ramones and Stones would have all been better off packing it in.

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brio, Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:21 (three years ago) Permalink

damn - how could I forget Robbie? it's right in the thread title

brio, Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:29 (three years ago) Permalink

I don't know if this fits, but I like the story of Roger Daltry in the early days of The Who threatening to leave if the other guys didn't scale back their speed intake, escalation of volume and distortion, and destruction of equipment, and their response was basically "Dude, you need us more than we need you."

nitro-burning funny car (Moodles), Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:30 (three years ago) Permalink

Axl

how's life, Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:35 (three years ago) Permalink

was just about to say Axl

ςὖτ ιτ Οὖτ (some dude), Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:40 (three years ago) Permalink

Robbie Robertson, Gene Simmons, Eddie Van Halen

ςὖτ ιτ Οὖτ (some dude), Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:42 (three years ago) Permalink

Feel like James Williamson had this rep in the Stooges for a long time, but has turned out to be/turned into a very likeable guy.

brio, Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:43 (three years ago) Permalink

Fogerty

Master of Treacle, Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:43 (three years ago) Permalink

wrt Daltrey, he was actually kicked out of the Who for a few weeks in 1965. He dumped a box of Moon's amphetamines down a toilet and punched him out, pissed that the performances were suffering. He didn't mind the destruction and feedback -- if anything, he encouraged it -- but couldn't bear what he saw as overall sloppiness in the shows. After he was kicked out he realized, "shit, it's either sing with the Who, or go back to sheet-metal work." So he went back to them and promised to stop starting fights; his transformation impressed the rest of the band, who quickly got their shit back together.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:44 (three years ago) Permalink

Roger Waters obv

goth colouring book (anagram), Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:50 (three years ago) Permalink

Is Lindsay Buckingham the bad guy in Fleetwood Mac?

brio, Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:55 (three years ago) Permalink

Jon Anderson

めんどくさい (Matt #2), Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:58 (three years ago) Permalink

Bun E. Carlos, apparently.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 May 2014 14:59 (three years ago) Permalink

Seriously? I thought Cheap Trick were chill dudes.

brio, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:00 (three years ago) Permalink

feel like there's mike love in a combination of bono and clayton

the glimmer man (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:09 (three years ago) Permalink

or maybe U2 is just mike love: the band

the glimmer man (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:09 (three years ago) Permalink

Robbie Robertson, Gene Simmons, Eddie Van Halen

there's an interesting KISS article in a recent Rolling Stone in which Ace & Peter suggest Paul is the actual evil mastermind in Kiss ala Dick Cheney.

Darin, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:09 (three years ago) Permalink

a la Keyser Soze, the limp being his guitar playing

めんどくさい (Matt #2), Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:11 (three years ago) Permalink

wow, would take some doing to secretly be a bigger dick than gene simmons.

brio, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:12 (three years ago) Permalink

RZA, according to Raekwon, but to me it goes both ways.

voodoo chili, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:18 (three years ago) Permalink

George Clinton, kinda - self-professed non musician, ringleader, notorious business manager. altho he seems way more lovable and fun than Mike Love and actually had great ideas.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:27 (three years ago) Permalink

I can see how maybe Paul Stanley is only a dick within the band, whereas Simmons is a dick throughout the rest of the world.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:28 (three years ago) Permalink

Fogerty

don't think this is right, given that he wrote literally all the music

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:28 (three years ago) Permalink

xps: Were Bootsy Collins and Maceo Parker all like, "I can't believe how badly George screwed up the band"?

how's life, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:29 (three years ago) Permalink

I really don't know much about PFunk history.

how's life, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:30 (three years ago) Permalink

It's the bullying of more fragile members that sets Mike Love and Johnny Ramone apart. Really vile behaviour.

lol at the suggestion that John Fogerty was a cold-hearted businessman. If only.

What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:32 (three years ago) Permalink

iirc, Stu and Doug had been hounding Fogerty about having more creative input. So Fogerty called their bluff and said, fine, each of you write a third of the new album. They complained about being forced to do that, the songs sucked, and that was the end of CCR.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:33 (three years ago) Permalink

re: Bootsy and Maceo - there were definitely serious fights about money and credits and publishing, not so much creatively I don't think.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:34 (three years ago) Permalink

yup Tarfumes is right. end of CCR is so sad.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:35 (three years ago) Permalink

http://www.depeche-mode.ru/media/photos/depechemode_010.jpg

piscesx, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:37 (three years ago) Permalink

Wayne Coyne

Kitchen Person, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:38 (three years ago) Permalink

Btw, I recommend reading Johnny Ramone's memoir Commando if you want some insight into the mind of a total shit. The lack of self-awareness is so complete that he doesn't cover up any of his awful behaviour. He's proud of it.

What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:39 (three years ago) Permalink

the only non-JF post-CCR song i enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-pbsXBe24

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd488/sallylu1/harrisonband.png

scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:49 (three years ago) Permalink

and it ain't that great...

scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:50 (three years ago) Permalink

fyi: this is not a good album.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Doug-clifford-solo-album-cover.jpg

scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2014 15:52 (three years ago) Permalink

Lars Ulrich.

Toni Braxton-Hicks (Turrican), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:12 (three years ago) Permalink

Doesn't everybody seem to hate on Bob Weir in the G.Dead threads?

Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:14 (three years ago) Permalink

bob is good cuz he is arguably the least talented member and he had a lot of the input and was the vocal presence on so much. a la mike.

scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:19 (three years ago) Permalink

but he seems like a nice enough guy?

scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:19 (three years ago) Permalink

I dont think Weir was one of the "keeping it together" guys, in fact he got canned a couple times in the early days for pinheaded behavior. He wrote some great songs, but he wasnt any kind of leader of that crew.

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:20 (three years ago) Permalink

Most hated person by far in Deadhead fan circles is Donna.

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:22 (three years ago) Permalink

Crosby owns this thread. Along with Robertson.

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:22 (three years ago) Permalink

Btw, I recommend reading Johnny Ramone's memoir Commando if you want some insight into the mind of a total shit. The lack of self-awareness is so complete that he doesn't cover up any of his awful behaviour. He's proud of it.

― What is wrong with songs? Absolutely nothing. Songs are great. (DL), Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:39 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dee Dee didn't really represent himself very well in his books either.

Immediate Follower (NA), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:24 (three years ago) Permalink

both johnny and deedee's books come across, at least partly, as schtick.

fit and working again, Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:28 (three years ago) Permalink

i only have a problem with mike love when i have to see pictures/video footage of him. and all the latter-day awful live cheerleading he did with john friggin' stamos or whoever. he just LOOKS like such a jerk. but he has never lessened my enjoyment of the beach boys. i don't really pay too close attention to who does what on their albums. or even who is singing. bob weir has definitely lessened my enjoyment of the dead. i like some of his songs but most of them are nowhere near as good as hunter/garcia stuff and his voice has always been really annoying/not great. but, like i said, he seems like an okay guy. jerry always thought he was a great "original" rhythm guitarist but i think they could have almost any good guitarist playing with them and if anything they would have sounded better if someone else had been playing. i definitely think bob was the sloppy x factor.

scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:30 (three years ago) Permalink

that woman in bardo pond is kinda my donna & bob rolled up into one hippie with a flute. can't listen to that band because of her and i really like them otherwise! she ruins the experience for me. they totally would have been one of my favorite jam bands if she wasn't in the band. sad, i know. or mean. she's probably really nice. that violin though....ugh...

scott seward, Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:39 (three years ago) Permalink

DON: A lot of critics, they think Glenn and I are "bad guys" *makes scare quoes with fingers*. But really if a band is a car, two guys gotta sit in the front. Those two guys in the Eagles are Glenn and myself. It would've have worked any other way.

GLENN: If two chicks had sat in the front seat, I an think of several ways we could work it.

DON: Well, yeah.

guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 May 2014 16:45 (three years ago) Permalink

gotta be the breadhead of the band with a name like banks amirite?

plp will eat itself (NickB), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:53 (two months ago) Permalink

His solo project was called Bankstatement!

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:55 (two months ago) Permalink

That pic must have been taken during the filming of the Genesis documentary that came out a couple years back. Safe to say judging by body language, Tony Banks and Peter Gabriel do not exchange Christmas cards.

kornrulez6969, Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:01 (two months ago) Permalink

Man, all Banks did in that documentary was complain. It was like Noel Redding being bitter that people paid more attention to Hendrix than to him.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:08 (two months ago) Permalink

Yes, he came across a total dick in what was all most certainly the most boring rockumentary of all time.

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:48 (two months ago) Permalink

Banks was talking shit about everyone while they were sitting there and they were looking at each other like "WTF" it's so great it's up there with Some Kind of Monster for me

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:49 (two months ago) Permalink

love peter gabriel's look these days

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/1a/ee/911aeeb253fab87272590b0124ee4e59.jpg

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:50 (two months ago) Permalink

How about Dave Rowntree who played drums in Blur?

There’s a couple of videos and stories of him being obnoxious to everyone.

Here he is bullying my man Nardwuar:

https://youtu.be/AkNvk2MgiCc

✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 12 October 2017 21:11 (two months ago) Permalink

jfc how much of a dick do you have to be to hate on nardwuar

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 21:17 (two months ago) Permalink

Actually Nardwuar seems like a good litmus test to see which band members are cool and which ones are dicks.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 12 October 2017 21:29 (two months ago) Permalink

first few times i saw Nardwuar he was so intensely positive that it seemed ironic. soon i realized he is just incredibly sincere and it made me love it all the more but i could see someone not knowing and walking into that and thinking he is pulling something over on you.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 October 2017 21:39 (two months ago) Permalink

"The keyboard player and bassist in Soul Coughing, if M Doughty is to believed."

Mark Degli Antoni or Steinberg or both?

Antoni did a great solo album at some point which I think is arguably more interesting than anything SC or Doughty ever did.

akm, Thursday, 12 October 2017 23:44 (two months ago) Permalink

"if M Doughty is to be believed" is the part where i'd start asking questions tbh

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 12 October 2017 23:48 (two months ago) Permalink

Well, he wrote this book much of which was devoted to detailing how generally awful all of his colleagues in SC treated him, the keys and bass guys came off worse.

How true it is of course possibly nobody can truthfully answer.

MaresNest, Friday, 13 October 2017 00:33 (one month ago) Permalink

jfc how much of a dick do you have to be to hate on nardwuar

i don't understand the shtick and i think he's a fucking dick and can only imagine he's enjoyed by dicks and Blur still come off worse in that video

pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Friday, 13 October 2017 01:15 (one month ago) Permalink

he just exists in a world of what the fuck is wrong with you people? to me and still comes off as a reasonable human being compared to Blur

pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Friday, 13 October 2017 01:16 (one month ago) Permalink

jfc how much of a dick do you have to be to hate on nardwuar

― Οὖτις, Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:17 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not that this excuses his behavior at all, but dude was up all night the night before doing so much blow & was coming down hard when Nard came in. again it is completely unacceptable to be anything but deferential to Nardwuar no matter the circumstances. at least Thurston & Lee atoned in 2002.

flappy bird, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:48 (one month ago) Permalink

i don't understand the shtick and i think he's a fucking dick and can only imagine he's enjoyed by dicks

the second part of this statement is especially insane

flappy bird, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:48 (one month ago) Permalink

Soul Coughing is an interesting example. Steinberg and De Gli Antoni both come off pretty poorly in the book, but the not-so-hidden subtext there is that all four of them were assholes. To some extent Doughty would be good candidate for this thread, if not for the fact that he never really got his way in the band. For all the complaining he does in the book, if you read it and then listen to his CD of Soul Coughing "covers" (idk if they count as covers if he wrote them in the first place) you could make an argument that Doughty would've single-handedly ruined the band and torpedoed their chance at commercial success if he had full reigns over the band. Not to mention the fact that he was (by his own admission) fucked up all the time, was often late to the studio, and half-assed pretty much everything as the band went on.

frogbs, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:01 (one month ago) Permalink

someone mentioned Spiral Stairs way upthread and there was no discussion but i think he has a lot of the qualities. maybe not all, but definitely a few.

alpine static, Friday, 13 October 2017 08:22 (one month ago) Permalink

SM is such a cock though

rip van wanko, Friday, 13 October 2017 09:44 (one month ago) Permalink

Dave Grohl in ways

rip van wanko, Friday, 13 October 2017 09:46 (one month ago) Permalink

Phill Judd

PaulTMA, Friday, 13 October 2017 11:47 (one month ago) Permalink

Matt Sharp

PaulTMA, Friday, 13 October 2017 11:48 (one month ago) Permalink

Bev Bevan

PaulTMA, Friday, 13 October 2017 11:51 (one month ago) Permalink

Brian Ritchie

PaulTMA, Friday, 13 October 2017 11:53 (one month ago) Permalink

Stewart Copeland?

looser than lucinda (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 13 October 2017 12:47 (one month ago) Permalink

would be hard to be worse than Sting tbh

plp will eat itself (NickB), Friday, 13 October 2017 12:56 (one month ago) Permalink

yea I don't see how Copeland fits here. Sting doesn't really either, he wrote like 80% of the band's material and 100% of their hits.

frogbs, Friday, 13 October 2017 13:06 (one month ago) Permalink

well he wrote the lyrics and claimed the credits and then you get him absolutely coining it in when puff samples the EBYT riff and andy doesn't even get a whiff of the royalties

plp will eat itself (NickB), Friday, 13 October 2017 13:21 (one month ago) Permalink

i don't understand the shtick and i think he's a fucking dick and can only imagine he's enjoyed by dicks

the second part of this statement is especially insane

we may need to consider that NV is ILX's Mike Love

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 13 October 2017 13:25 (one month ago) Permalink

Copeland only gets credit for like 2-4 songs per album. I didn't think he wrote all that many lyrics.

Summers getting screwed out of the Pupp Daddy money is definitely pretty egregious though. IDK how much of that was on Stew though

frogbs, Friday, 13 October 2017 13:38 (one month ago) Permalink

Bear in mind I generally like Copeland as a musician, songwriter, composer, etc.

But in any interview, any documentary or video where he gets to talk, and in his fluffy-as-fuck memoir, he absolutely cannot ever shut up. He tries to come off as a genial goofball, but he keeps changing the subject to himself, and also never shuts up. On the "Certifiable" reunion tour DVD, he keeps talking and talking and you can see the other guys just rolling their eyes. "Oh, god, there he goes again." He makes Sting - STING - seem reserved and modest and shy.

They did this little faux-nonchalant Whisky appearance and they were like, "what should we play?" and Sting turns to Andy and says, "Do you know 'Message in a Bottle'?" So they start playing, and it sounds great. But Stewart doesn't realize the joke is over, and he's still pretending that they don't really know the song. So he is - get this - AUDIBLY CALLING OUT THE CHORD CHANGES, including the inversions/extensions and bass notes.

They were taking questions from a mainly-press audience and Questlove happened to be there, and Stewart gets all goofy about it, while clearly not knowing who Questlove is.

I mean, this guy is responsible for some of the purest joy I've ever felt, but whenever he opens his mouth it just sounds like the most show-offy class clown in the whole 8th grade. Andy's pretty cool, and Sting is... Sting. But Stewart always wants more of the spotlight than he's earned. Which makes him a Mike Love in my book.

looser than lucinda (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 13 October 2017 16:25 (one month ago) Permalink

I've always thought all of that band were dicks tbh.

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Friday, 13 October 2017 17:13 (one month ago) Permalink

Very compelling case, YMP. But Copeland's musicianship cannot be questioned. This is crucial in being a Mike Love.

flappy bird, Friday, 13 October 2017 17:17 (one month ago) Permalink

tbf you could probably gather all that about him just by listening to his music. I think the big difference here is that Copeland contributed a ton to the band, in fact if you listen to his Klark Kent record next to Sting's solo stuff, you can make a pretty good argument that Copeland architected the whole sound in a way.

frogbs, Friday, 13 October 2017 17:49 (one month ago) Permalink

I believe Copeland wrote "Does Everyone Stare" and "On Any Other Day"; a few others that I can't call to mind right now. I see where you're going, flappy. If being an unquestionably good musician means you're not a Mike Love, I will defer to the hive-mind wisdom.

looser than lucinda (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 13 October 2017 19:21 (one month ago) Permalink

Mike Love's not really a good musician but he is a good songwriter

Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 19:24 (one month ago) Permalink

Mike Love's voice is his instrument!

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Friday, 13 October 2017 19:28 (one month ago) Permalink

it is not that great

Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 19:29 (one month ago) Permalink

tho I do think he made the most of it

Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 19:30 (one month ago) Permalink

Aruba, Jamaica, ooo I wanna take ya; Bermuda, Bahama, come on pretty mama

looser than lucinda (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 13 October 2017 19:32 (one month ago) Permalink

https://media.giphy.com/media/NzRf8Kx3AsrXa/giphy.gif

Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 19:35 (one month ago) Permalink

Hah. Left to right: L: Mike Love; R: Mike Love.

looser than lucinda (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 13 October 2017 19:36 (one month ago) Permalink

He sits behind his microphone: Johnny Carson
He speaks in such a manly tone: Johnny Carson

Ed McMahon comes on and says "Here's Johnny"
Every night at 11:30 he's so funny

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Friday, 13 October 2017 19:55 (one month ago) Permalink

^^^possibly the best song on "Love You" (not written by Mike tho)

Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 19:56 (one month ago) Permalink

So. In the movie "Frank," Domhnall Gleeson's character joins an existing band led by a reclusive visionary genius.

He proceeds to push the band in a more popular, less obscurantist direction, alienating the other band members.

Guess who else joined an existing band led by a reclusive visionary genius, then proceeded to push the band in a more popular, less obscurantist direction, alienating the other band members?

looser than lucinda (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 14 October 2017 01:04 (one month ago) Permalink

Anyone care to opine on who was the Mike Love of the New York Dolls?

rip van wanko, Saturday, 14 October 2017 01:19 (one month ago) Permalink

John Stamos? (xp)

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 07:04 (one month ago) Permalink


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