PONO - Where Music Lives

He also asked "Dan, have you ever been to a volcano?" semi-apropos of nothing

― chr1sb3singer, Friday, April 10, 2015 10:06 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he is the most amazing interview

they always play that clip of him saying "When you walk the streets of Houston, you gotta keep your gun belt tight"

Walton also compared Wisconsin coach Bo Ryan to Bob Dylan, Neil Young, and Jimmy Cliff

I would really like to hear more about this

Here's pono designer charlie hanson:

"a) Brickwall filtering creates massive time smear. b) The human ear/brain is already known to be exquisitely sensitive to time smear. c) DBT and AB/X are really only sensitive to differences in frequency response. Using these tools for anything to do with music is like pounding a nail with a screwdriver. Ain't gonna work.

Specifically, one of the massive benefits of a higher sampling rate is not extended bandwidth. Instead, it allows for gentler filters to be used. In the case of the Ayre QA-9 A/D converter, the anti-aliasing filters have zero ringing or time smear for double and quad sample rates. (Only one cycle of ringing for single rates -- something has to give somewhere...)"

as quoted here: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/pono-player-and-promises-fulfilled

there's also a brief mention of it here: http://www.audiostream.com/content/pono-player

and a heartfelt but not particularly helpful michael fremer rant here:
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/gizmodo-wont-post-my-comment-so-im-posting-them-here

i wish i had more. it intrigues me too.

thank you! very interesting.

food for thought:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=time%20smearing%20in%20digital%20audio

more from john atkinson on the media war against pono:

I realize now that, in my review, I did not say enough about the compelling nature of music played through the Pono. During the long flight out to the Northwest, and now as I write these words, my attention keeps being drawn to the music in a way that rarely happens with my iPod Classic. This happens not only with hi-rez PCM files (and DSD files, which, with the release of firmware v.1.0.5, the Pono can now play), but with CD rips and even MP3s. Perhaps the best way to characterize the Pono player is to say that for $399, you get a D/A processor almost as good as Ayre Acoustics' QB-9 ($3250), with a 128GB hi-rez media player thrown in for free.

So it was with not a little astonishment that, while writing about the Pono, I read negative reviews of this little gem in the mainstream press. David Pogue, late of the New York Times, wrote for Yahoo.com's Tech pages: "The Emperor Has No Clothes . . . Neil Young and the believers in high-res audio aren't fools, and their hearts are in the right place. But Pono's statement that 'Everyone who's ever heard PonoMusic will tell you that the difference is surprising and dramatic' is baloney" (footnote 1). "Neil Young's PonoPlayer sounds no better than an iPhone—no matter what the audiophiles say," wrote Seth Stevenson for Slate.

Do these writers really not grasp what Pono is about? And do they really hear no improvement in sound quality—not just with the Pono player in particular, but with high-resolution audio files in general?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/access-journalism-vs-accountability-journalism

During the long flight out to the Northwest...

Because there's no better place to appreciate high quality audio than on a plane. What, was he trying to duplicate how everything sounds to Neil?

yeah, the absurdity of using a portable music player on a plane.

he's obviously pointing out how hearing is degraded when in flight due to the ambient noise and the ear popping/etc

also wonder why Atkinson is silent on this article: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html, which is not the 2007 article that he claims is discredited.

though it *does* source the discredited paper. however, reading Atkinson's comments in the comment section, it seems by 'discredited' that he really meant 'discredited by him' and not...broadly.

atkinson was not reviewing pono on the plane, just enjoying it fer chrissakes. he'd already published his review.

that xiph thing follows pono around like a crazy uncle. the 2007 article at least was published/presented. the xiph thing is just viral internet crap. i suspect that's why he's "silent" on it.

atkin's comments in the comment section says that a later aes paper, which he links to, discredits the methodology used in the 2007 paper.

atkinson rather.

Does Pono have a micro sd lot or are you capped at 128gb?

(Can't believe I'm saying that)

Lot = slot

the kickstarter page says:

"The PonoPlayer ships with a total of 128GB. 64GB of memory is built into the player and another 64GB of memory on a removable microSD card. The expansion slot can accept microSD cards of up to 64GB or SDXC microSD cards of 128GB or higher."

so you can update the 64GB card to a 128GB card (£65 or so on amazon)

Not bad, so up to 192 gb at any one time.

I'm pretty sure I laundered my dragonfly and the motherfucker still works

solid piece of equipment imo

I always think this thread is about Hayao Miyazaki's "Ponyo".

Got a used x5 from b&h. Love it. Two 128 gb cards onboard of course but what really surprised me is the ability to jack a third one in via otg adaptor.

Man that's cool. Almost enough music...

Yeah it becomes abundantly clear how e'er-receding that horizon is

the xiph thing is just viral internet crap.

xiph.org invented the FLAC file format.

that's a good thing. but regardless, the paper on which the xiph piece is based has been discredited by the audio engineering society. who knows, maybe they're trying to perpetuate the viability of their format in the era of hi-res dsd downloads. but to the extent that they paint the seekers of better sound as a bunch of science deniers, they are just being trolls.

AES published the original Meyer and Moran study too. also really don't feel like that's a fair representation of the Xiph people as well, based on what I've read about them - they're passionate about sound.

I realize AES gave the Robert Stuart study a top award but from what I heard it was a convention paper that wasn't even peer reviewed (whereas Meyer and Moran was), and everybody worked for Meridian that was involved in the testing. So how can Xiph have an agenda and Meridian, who wish to sell audiophile equipment, not?

Not remotely saying I'm an expert, but even the supporters of the Stuart paper are hesitant to use the word "debunked".

yeah "discredited" might be too strong a word. still, this article, linked from the AES home page, sort of lays out where they're at right now:

http://www.aes.org/technical/documentDownloads.cfm?docID=507

it says:

The theoretical and practical influence of filters on sound has long been debated, and a
new test program initiated by Meridian Audio seeks to explore some of the audibility
questions. In an important first paper given at the AES 137th convention, Meridian
authors H.M. Jackson et.al. measured the audibility in double blind tests of
downsampling filters typical of those used in CD preparation when such filters were
applied to a higher resolution stream without decimation and played through a high
quality audio system. Their result disputes that from an earlier paper by E.B. Meyer and
D.R. Moran (J.A.E.S. 55: 775-779, 2007) and provides evidence and a likely mechanism
for an audible distinction between CD and higher resolutions.

so again, perpetuating the notion that redbook cds are as good as we're ever going to get, and that all these people buying high-res files are throwing their money away because they can't hear the difference, is getting old.

i think there was an even more recent paper that shows that trained listeners, i.e. folks who actually know what they're listening for, can reliably tell the difference between normal and high resolution files:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/simple-everything-appears-simple

none of the candidates for presidents - not even jill stein - is talking about this! wake up people!!!

Under Construction

One of our key infrastructure partners - Omnifone - has recently been acquired by a large company. An impact of this purchase is that all Omnifone’s supply relationships are being terminated, effectively immediately. Omnifone has been the exclusive content provider for PonoMusic.

In early anticipation of this change, some time ago we began, and subsequently concluded, negotiations to move our content provision to 7 Digital, the leading independent music content/services platform. This process of transition is now well underway, but not yet complete. Please rest assured that our contractual relationships with all the major music labels remain fully intact and will transition to our new platform.

During this transition, the ponomusic.com store will be under construction and not available. Our music library will be temporarily suspended for purchases effective July 20th. We ask that you please complete any music purchases you were considering, or wish to make, by Tuesday, July 19th.

Our PonoCommunity will continue as normal and we will keep everyone up to date with our progress.

With our partners at 7 Digital, we will determine the timeframe of this transition. Right now, we believe this transition process will take several weeks to achieve. In the meantime, please stay connected to the site and the community and keep listening to and enjoying the music you have. This transition is our highest priority and will remain so until we are live again and providing our customers with seamless access to music in the highest quality available.

On a positive note, this partnership brings fresh opportunities to improve our overall service. We look forward to having new titles to offer you.

Thank you for your understanding, patience, and support.
The Ponomusic Team.

#PonoInCrisis

#Pray4Pono

Never trust any company with "omni" in its name.

Omnifone totally sounds like a made up corporation from an 80s movie

http://www.omnifone.com/sites/default/files/Hero_3_content-choosing.png

huh ol' cd baby is still going

more like cd older now

it's no The Orchard or Tunecore

i've worked for omnifone since 2004 when it was 5 people. the office closes next week. 8(

Ah sorry that sucks :-(

Pono becoming Xstream (also the name of the streaming service on Empire, so that's promising)

But the pono devices have no network capabilities, how will they stream? Or are they not part of this?

Meanwhile, BBC radio 3 is currently available as a flac stream for lossless listening...

I was behind a Tesla with the license plate PONO today. Couldn't tell if it was Neil (tinted windows) due to lack of hat or sideburns. Maybe just a diehard fan.

http://www.nme.com/news/music/neil-young-record-labels-killed-pono-2243030

Does Tidal stream in CD quality? The pono folks may have just jumped to them.

Looking forward to a concept album about this

30 minute jam with "Save the downloads, save the downloads" as a chorus

The rest of the peddle-stuff-to-audiophiles industry seems to have no problems charging 2-3x higher prices.

so anybody get one

We had one at work - we supplied the files for them - and us going out of business is what caused their website to disappear, never to return 8(

damn!

(collapse is covered a few pages back, July 2016)

Tidal streams at CD quality and it sounds really good

What’s “Qobuz”?: https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/music/streaming/offers