Liebezeit vs Baker vs Bruford vs ____________________

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Give the drummer some

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Liebezeit 25
Bruford 13
_____________ (write in candidate) 4
Baker 2


I can't keep up, I can't keep up, I can't keep up (calstars), Monday, 25 November 2013 12:44 (five years ago) link

drummers

international mons day (wins), Monday, 25 November 2013 12:46 (five years ago) link

jk

jaki I reckon

malapopism (wins), Monday, 25 November 2013 12:48 (five years ago) link

Cutler?

Stevolende, Monday, 25 November 2013 12:57 (five years ago) link

McCarroll

Master of Treacle, Monday, 25 November 2013 13:50 (five years ago) link

Tony Allen, Spencer Dryden, Elvin Jones, Steve Shelley, Ted Parsons, Dave Mattacks, Terry Graham, Clyde Stubblefield, Art Blakey, Max Roach, Uncle Tom Cobbley.

Stevolende, Monday, 25 November 2013 14:21 (five years ago) link

Lindy Morrison.

Funny, I had just been thinking Clare Moore but maybe that was too diddleyesque

Stevolende, Monday, 25 November 2013 14:40 (five years ago) link

baker feels way different to bruford and liebezeit to me, who both have that minimalist, metronomic thing going on.

Crackle Box, Monday, 25 November 2013 14:51 (five years ago) link

jaki is the best for jaki-like drumming

sweat pea (La Lechera), Monday, 25 November 2013 14:55 (five years ago) link

jaki = heart, bruford = brain, paul thompson = soul. and yes, lindy morrison is a force of nature; love her!

nerve_pylon, Monday, 25 November 2013 15:13 (five years ago) link

What is Thompson's finest moment?

I can't keep up, I can't keep up, I can't keep up (calstars), Tuesday, 26 November 2013 00:34 (five years ago) link

john stanier?

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 26 November 2013 00:42 (five years ago) link

"Serenade"

xp

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 26 November 2013 00:44 (five years ago) link

bruford, he's the only one out of these that i listened to and studied a ton. love his metric modulation tricks, and every note he plays on Red.

festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 26 November 2013 00:45 (five years ago) link

and he did while wearing overalls

festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, 26 November 2013 00:47 (five years ago) link

Bruford TS: overalls vs yellow suit

"Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 26 November 2013 01:02 (five years ago) link

Wyatt

WilliamC, Tuesday, 26 November 2013 01:13 (five years ago) link

Liebezeit, as if there's a choice

nostormo, Tuesday, 26 November 2013 11:26 (five years ago) link

I'm penning in Steve Jansen as the 4th candidate for the tie-in.

Max Florian, Wednesday, 27 November 2013 10:15 (five years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 00:01 (five years ago) link

which one drummed in YES and KING CRIMSON?

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:09 (five years ago) link

weird poll

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:17 (five years ago) link

liebezeit seems like the hipper answer but bruford seems like the righter answer

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:17 (five years ago) link

there's really nothing like else like when "paper house" locks into that tribal groove but come on, "heart of the sunrise"? "starless"?

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:21 (five years ago) link

I like Bruford all around but Halleluwah

I can't keep up, I can't keep up, I can't keep up (calstars), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:24 (five years ago) link

"halleluhwah" is amazing but "close to the edge"

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:31 (five years ago) link

i mean liebezeit is great as a pure groove drummer, but i'd still put him behind clyde and jabo, and probably tony allen too.

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:34 (five years ago) link

Nobody putting it down for Baker? Is it because of all the interminable solos?

voodoo chili, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:44 (five years ago) link

I find Baker to be kind of awful. Really thuddy and not fun.

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:46 (five years ago) link

i hear that (especially in the baker gurvitz army stuff) but the live album ginger did with fela kuti is pretty awesome for realziz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6awYn56IWQ

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:48 (five years ago) link

yeah I kind of enjoy that record, but isn't he playing alongside tony allen there? He really didn't have great feel on his own. I find his drumming very halting and awkward.

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 02:50 (five years ago) link

check out Blakey blatantly aping Baker starting around 4:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qghrsBfSbgk

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 03:08 (five years ago) link

Bruford is a real master of the drumset and I don't know if I'd say either of the others are. Granted that a lot of "masters" of the drumset are more boring to listen to than some drummers that just groove really hard, I just don't think that's the case here.

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 03:12 (five years ago) link

sometimes i feel i enjoy the liebezeit copycats more than jaki himself. bruford all time obv, but strangely there ain't that many modern drummers successfully cloning his style. idk, i hear a bit of brudford in greg saunier, mostly in terms of accents and overall unpredictability but that's about it.

cock chirea, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 03:49 (five years ago) link

i feel i enjoy the liebezeit copycats

por ejemplo...?

sweat pea (La Lechera), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:00 (five years ago) link

yeah also wondering

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:02 (five years ago) link

mmmmmm

mig from moonshake, david turner from long fin killie, jerry fuchs from turing machine, dude from pram (their first drummer, can't recall his name) etc.

cock chirea, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:06 (five years ago) link

sorry to have to say it, but who from what? i don't know anything about any of those bands! is there some secret island where all the jaki-worshipping drummers live?

sweat pea (La Lechera), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:11 (five years ago) link

my favorite liebezeit song is nookie

Mordy , Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:13 (five years ago) link

well Jerry Fuchs (RIP) also played with LCD Soundsystem and The Juan MacLean among others, LL, so you probably have heard him. The other two I don't know from Adam.

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:14 (five years ago) link

er other three

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:14 (five years ago) link

also I kind of think of Neu! as more progenitors of that style than Can

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:15 (five years ago) link

i'd say this guy was def a fan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Young_(drummer)

sweat pea (La Lechera), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:18 (five years ago) link

sorry to have to say it, but who from what? i don't know anything about any of those bands! is there some secret island where all the jaki-worshipping drummers live?

haven't you listened to moonshake's eva luna??? man, you're in for a threat. 1st two LFK records and pram's helium also essential listening for the krautisms and the jaki aping in particular (i swear i'm not making this up, those guys were super into liebezeit)

cock chirea, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:21 (five years ago) link

fun, takes patience, steve gadd imo

http://youtu.be/Ln6b_nBM-V8?t=2m46s

CANONICAL artists, etc., etc. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:30 (five years ago) link

^ thanks to my brother for the link

CANONICAL artists, etc., etc. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:31 (five years ago) link

i love the way gadd moves when he plays -- he loves drumming more than most drummers imo

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:33 (five years ago) link

yeah, plus just beating the hell out of shit

the other two aren't my thing (weckl & colaiuta)

CANONICAL artists, etc., etc. (contenderizer), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:34 (five years ago) link

he crushes weckl and colaiuta on that imo, they're just all like "duggaduggaduggadugaaduggaduggadugga PSH PSH PSH PSHHHHH duggaduggadugga pshhh" while he's grooving the shit out of everything

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 04:35 (five years ago) link

re: Gadd et al, there's this weird slick oily film all over everything they do that really puts me off. But more than that, I don't hear any tension or drive or excitement or depth in their playing. fwiw.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 19:58 (five years ago) link

I can see saying that about Weckyl, but not Gadd

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:00 (five years ago) link

Weckl, sry, keep putting in the y

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:01 (five years ago) link

For tension, drive, and excitement from Gadd, I think "Aja" is a great example. Pretty much my go-to song for him.

Ornate Coleman (Moodles), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:03 (five years ago) link

I will say there are records I love that Gadd's on where he doesn't bug/distract me (Aja, except for his solo bit, and some Paul Simon things). But there's a commonality in approach that I hear where they're both laying back in the same kind of way; not necessarily playing behind the beat, but playing very, I dunno, relaxed, but in a way that (probably irrationally) strikes me as smug.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:15 (five years ago) link

I will say that I don't always love his sound -- it can be on the dry and dead side for my tastes.

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:17 (five years ago) link

Pram has a singer?

sweat pea (La Lechera), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:40 (five years ago) link

Yes, Rosie! Its p much 'her' band iirc? Listen to 'chrysalis' on ye spotify!

yes, i have seen the documentary (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:52 (five years ago) link

Don't hold Weckyl's '80s hair against him.

Gadd looks smug because he is a survivor. Aaaaample drugs.

Also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-2ylOmIkzU

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:54 (five years ago) link

Grrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-2ylOmIkzU

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 20:57 (five years ago) link

I've been following this thread for 2 weeks and just noticed Baker's name. There's absolutely no way that Ginger rates with either of the other two, that's just silly.

"Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 22:49 (five years ago) link

ginger baker is a dude who like ever since I have been playing drums I have heard people rating highly and then I would check him out, and even when I was a beginner I was kind of scratching my head, like maybe there was something I didn't get about the nuance of his drumming

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 23:17 (five years ago) link

There is no nuance in his drumming, that's the point. Like Elvin Jones said, "This guy plays like he has delusions of grandeur".

"Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 23:21 (five years ago) link

there are only two drummers who've done work that I insist on making people listen to (as in "you gotta check out the drumming on this track"). Jaki and Jim White. Bruford is amazing but it's like he's not even human, I dunno.

sleeve, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 23:28 (five years ago) link

nb: I am not a drummer

sleeve, Wednesday, 4 December 2013 23:28 (five years ago) link

I think Mitch Mitchell is a drummer from the same era who wears "jazz influence" way better than Baker and gets a lot less credit. I love Mitch Mitchell's drumming.

signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 23:33 (five years ago) link

Mitchell! Spanish Castle Magic...those triplet fills!

I can't keep up, I can't keep up, I can't keep up (calstars), Wednesday, 4 December 2013 23:51 (five years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Thursday, 5 December 2013 00:01 (five years ago) link

I think I had such a tough time with this I ended up not voting. But on balance my love for KC pushes it to Bruford.

"Turkey In The Straw" coming from someplace in the clouds (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 5 December 2013 00:04 (five years ago) link

five months pass...

ooooooommmmmmmmggggggg
i don't know how i avoided knowing this before, but i just learned that Jaki's bday is the same as three of my best friends (5/26 -- happy belated birthday!)

also he was born in 1938 so he's getting pretty old! he's still in good health right?

La Lechera, Tuesday, 3 June 2014 13:13 (five years ago) link

how is his ticker

j., Thursday, 5 June 2014 02:40 (five years ago) link

Reliable iirc

La Lechera, Thursday, 5 June 2014 03:10 (five years ago) link

eight months pass...

i finally got around to buying secret rhythms -- i got #3 -- are the rest of them as good as #3?
what is he doing these days? i know he was interviewed for the tago mago 33 1/3 book but i haven't read it.

groundless round (La Lechera), Tuesday, 24 February 2015 14:35 (four years ago) link

three months pass...

happy 77th bday to Jaki!!

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Tuesday, 26 May 2015 18:57 (four years ago) link

HB JL!!!

I defer to him as the ne plus ultra of JLs

Just ordered the tago mago book last week actually

demonic mnevice (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 26 May 2015 19:02 (four years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Shook the great man's hand last night, no photo evidence unfortunately. He seems a bit deaf (he is 77 after all) so didn't try to engage him in conversation.

The Manner of Crawly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 09:11 (four years ago) link

More info pls! Did you see him play?

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 11:34 (four years ago) link

Yeah he was playing with Hans-Joachim Irmler of Faust. Playing a tiny drumkit which barely came up to his knees, no bass drum. Irmler was playing his original homemade organ from early Faust days, which I made sure I had a good look at, it really is homemade!

The Manner of Crawly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 11:42 (four years ago) link

What kind of stuff did Jaki play? What else is he doing these days? I saw that Ginger Baker is playing here (Chicago) and turned up my nose but I would elbow people out of the way to see Jaki.

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 13:36 (four years ago) link

I am supporting them tonight. *shitting it shitting it shitting it*

emil.y, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 13:40 (four years ago) link

omg shut up
really?!

do you have a plan? have you rehearsed the plan? will you at least promise to report back in florid detail?

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 13:42 (four years ago) link

Yep really. Supported Irmler before (he's REALLY NICE) but Liebezeit is making me wobble. I don't know if I will be able to even say hello. Particularly because my new band is ridiculous and they really might hate it.

emil.y, Wednesday, 17 June 2015 13:46 (four years ago) link

I doubt it, and anyway you can't think like that -- what would you do in the best case scenario?
What a dream.

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 13:52 (four years ago) link

Playing a tiny drumkit which barely came up to his knees, no bass drum

huh, had to look up his setup after reading this, i like it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBiYWjAfCDE

lil urbane (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 14:11 (four years ago) link

Jaki seemed like a wonderful old fellow, really enjoying himself and delighted with sheer love being beamed at him by the audience... I'm sure H-J didn't mind, he's Jaki Liebezeit after all.

The Manner of Crawly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 14:17 (four years ago) link

(xp) There was an interview and Q&A after the gig and Jaki explained why he'd abandoned the traditional jazz/rock kit, he called the hi-hat, the "Charleston Machine ", because he said it was added to the drumkit at the time of the Charleston craze... don't know if that's true but it's a good story!

The Manner of Crawly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 14:21 (four years ago) link

going to miss Jaki tonight because of various things, but good luck emil.y!

feargal czukay (NickB), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 16:18 (four years ago) link

emil.y please wear a vest (chain mail optional) and then think about irmin s in this video
you could also pull some of those dance moves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4nHr44vE9I

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 16:24 (four years ago) link

This will mean nothing to American ILXors and very little to UK ILXors either, but this guy was at the gig last night, goin' apeshit.

The Manner of Crawly (Tom D.), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 16:29 (four years ago) link

but Liebezeit is making me wobble

i see what u did there

demonic mnevice (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 17 June 2015 16:31 (four years ago) link

Jaki was very much shy/not speaking much English, but Jochen is so so nice. But even just being around for the soundcheck, where drum tests are always the worst part, and I just thought... this is not the worst, it's the fucking drummer from Can. Holy crap. I am a ridiculous human, mind you.

emil.y, Thursday, 18 June 2015 03:05 (four years ago) link

Also we were trying to take sneaky photos backstage but then they took photos of us. <3 <3 <3

emil.y, Thursday, 18 June 2015 03:07 (four years ago) link

Wow!

the discreet charm of the georgeoisie (Drugs A. Money), Thursday, 18 June 2015 20:05 (four years ago) link

I'm glad it was a positive experience!! I want him to live forever if possible.

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Thursday, 18 June 2015 20:19 (four years ago) link

Unless he wants to retire his human half and carry on as a machine. That'd be ok.

Florianne Fracke (La Lechera), Thursday, 18 June 2015 20:20 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

Picked up Cyclopean at the store today, Irmin Schmidt is on it too -- reminds me a lot of the Secret Rhythms stuff (Burnt Friedman is on it too)
It's really short and sounds like one long song. I like it.

La Lechera, Saturday, 15 August 2015 22:46 (four years ago) link

four years pass...

The Baker family are sad to announce that Ginger is critically ill in hospital. Please keep him in your prayers tonight

— Ginger Baker (@GingerBDrums) September 25, 2019

flopsy bird (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 25 September 2019 20:47 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncs2pjrau4

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 18:27 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1nw-G4_bVk

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 19:25 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vNcgL9Fi4w

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 20:03 (two weeks ago) link


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