Songs with the sus4-triad-sus2-triad Figure

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The Byrds - "Feel a Whole Lot Better"
The Beatles - "If I Needed Someone"
Led Zeppelin - "Stairway to Heaven"

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:07 (five years ago) Permalink

There have to be multiple REM examples, right? (Tim?)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:07 (five years ago) Permalink

(e.g. Dsus4 - D - Dsus2 - D or Asus4 - A - Asus2 - A)

It seems like the single most obvious thing to do on a D chord but I can't think of as many examples offhand as I expected to be able to.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:10 (five years ago) Permalink

Does the ending of 'Lazy Sunday' by Small Faces qualify for this? I'll have to give it another listen, but it sounds like one.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:21 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna guess "Substitute" has this, but I'm too far away from a guitar right now to be certain.

Esperanto, why don't you come to your senses? (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:25 (five years ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFvLNsrqrrA

MaresNest, Friday, 19 July 2013 22:25 (five years ago) Permalink

the verse of fleetwood mac's "go your own way"?

pass-ag caglia (get bent), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:25 (five years ago) Permalink

I've got my thinking cap on, but all the examples I seem to be thinking of are triad-sus2-sus4-triad(!)

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:27 (five years ago) Permalink

There have to be multiple REM examples, right? (Tim?)

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, July 19, 2013 3:07 PM (16 minutes ago)

"Pretty Persuasion" for sure.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:28 (five years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I think 'Pretty Persuasion' has one in the verses.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:30 (five years ago) Permalink

There's several songs by The Jam that feature a lot of this type of stuff, too.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:31 (five years ago) Permalink

the who "so sad about us" (speaking of the jam!)

fact checking cuz, Friday, 19 July 2013 22:33 (five years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna guess "Substitute" has this, but I'm too far away from a guitar right now to be certain.

― Esperanto, why don't you come to your senses? (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, July 19, 2013 10:25 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd expect there to be quite a few Who songs that do this (suspended chords kinda being one of Townshend's trademarks), although I'm really struggling to think of any examples at the mo!

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:34 (five years ago) Permalink

the who "so sad about us" (speaking of the jam!)

― fact checking cuz, Friday, July 19, 2013 10:33 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Bingo!

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:34 (five years ago) Permalink

probably a million tom petty songs, but like turrican i'm struggling to find one that has them in the specified order.

fact checking cuz, Friday, 19 July 2013 22:34 (five years ago) Permalink

probably a million '70s power pop songs (throw in a major 7th chord too)

pass-ag caglia (get bent), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:35 (five years ago) Permalink

...not to mention a million '80s, '90s, '00s and '10s power pop songs.

fact checking cuz, Friday, 19 July 2013 22:36 (five years ago) Permalink

xxxpost:

Weller even snuck a bit of the 'So Sad About Us' riff into 'It's Too Bad' (along with the 'break up'/'make up' rhyme), so there's that one as well.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:37 (five years ago) Permalink

The intro to 'Woman' by John Lennon?

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:40 (five years ago) Permalink

Some song about the "Best Ever Death Metal Band in Denton" iirc

triad-sus2-sus4-triad(!)

triad-sus2-sus4-sus2-triad-sus2 = Belly - "Gepetto"
(also iirc, long time since I touched a guitar, but that was where I learnt this 1 weird trick)

slippery kelp on the tide (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:45 (five years ago) Permalink

"Heyyyyy you've got to hiiiide your love awaayyyyy" - sus4-triad-sus2-triad

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:48 (five years ago) Permalink

Tom Petty - Free Fallin' (triad, sus4, sus4, triad, sus 2)

Cap'n Conserv-a-pedia (Hurting 2), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:52 (five years ago) Permalink

You'll usually find that unless they're using some kind of alt. tuning or using a capo, most of the guitar-written songs with this figure will either be on D or A.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:53 (five years ago) Permalink

The Kinks - A Long Way From Home

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 22:56 (five years ago) Permalink

The Byrds - "Feel a Whole Lot Better"
The Beatles - "If I Needed Someone"
Led Zeppelin - "Stairway to Heaven"

First one is the one I always think of. As far as the second one, I believe another Beatle George song, "I Need You" from Help! also has this.

Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 19 July 2013 23:06 (five years ago) Permalink

There must be some early U2 tracks that do this, Electric Co maybe?

MaresNest, Friday, 19 July 2013 23:16 (five years ago) Permalink

First one is the one I always think of. As far as the second one, I believe another Beatle George song, "I Need You" from Help! also has this.
― Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, July 19, 2013 11:06 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'I Need You' goes sus2-triad-sus4-triad

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 23:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Sorry, triad-sus2-sus4-triad, rather.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Friday, 19 July 2013 23:24 (five years ago) Permalink

Oh shit, now I know what that progression is! 99% sure the Who's "Pure and Easy" qualifies (per Turrican -- Townshend did use a shitload of suspended chords).

Esperanto, why don't you come to your senses? (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 19 July 2013 23:58 (five years ago) Permalink

Otm. "Pinball Wizard" has sus4 chord, I think, but don't think it has this exact lick. Yeah, wasn't sure about "I Need You," was posting on zing from subway.

Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 July 2013 00:15 (five years ago) Permalink

probably a million tom petty songs, but like turrican i'm struggling to find one that has them in the specified order.

― fact checking cuz, Friday, July 19, 2013 6:34 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Pretty sure even the first examples don't have them in the specified order. At least not The Byrds - that's triad-sus2-triad-sus4-triad-sus2-triad.

it itches like a porky pine sitting on your dick (Phil D.), Saturday, 20 July 2013 00:54 (five years ago) Permalink

I mean I guess if you're not taking the whole phrase into consideration, then it has it on the back half.

it itches like a porky pine sitting on your dick (Phil D.), Saturday, 20 July 2013 00:55 (five years ago) Permalink

Anyway, "Happy Xmas (War Is Over)" by John Lennon and "Allison Road" by Gin Blossoms.

it itches like a porky pine sitting on your dick (Phil D.), Saturday, 20 July 2013 01:08 (five years ago) Permalink

"Needles and Pins" except it's in A, not D. Same suspensions, though.

timellison, Saturday, 20 July 2013 01:50 (five years ago) Permalink

There's more than one answer to this question, pointing me in a crooked line. And the less I search my source for some definitive...

kornrulez6969, Saturday, 20 July 2013 01:52 (five years ago) Permalink

The only other R.E.M. one I'm thinking of is "7 Chinese Brothers," which has that whole D riff. Right before the change to the chorus, it goes triad-sus4-triad-sus2-triad.

timellison, Saturday, 20 July 2013 02:15 (five years ago) Permalink

Pretty sure even the first examples don't have them in the specified order. At least not The Byrds - that's triad-sus2-triad-sus4-triad-sus2-triad.

How does that not count as including this figure?? All three songs I listed contain these chords in this order, regardless of whatever other chords may also be present.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 02:38 (five years ago) Permalink

Those are perfect REM examples, thanks.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 02:41 (five years ago) Permalink

OK, wow, "So Sad About Us": that's textbook!

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 02:42 (five years ago) Permalink

"Woman" is interesting because: i) it's in Eb and ii) it does this but varies the melody a little by going ^4 -^3 -^2 -^1 -^2 -^3 instead of ^4 -^3 -^2-^3. It's also a case where he holds the chords, extending this into a 2-bar strumming pattern instead of strumming each chord once.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:01 (five years ago) Permalink

xxxp my initial understanding was that you were looking for songs where the whole phrase/hook was the pattern, not just chord progressions that contain it at some point. My mistake.

it itches like a porky pine sitting on your dick (Phil D.), Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:04 (five years ago) Permalink

"Carnival of Sorts" on A in the chorus, but I think he's just playing the notes (4-3-2-1).

timellison, Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:09 (five years ago) Permalink

It's all good. Maybe it was unclear.

A lot of great examples so far. I should look for art music antecedents. It seems like really straightforward neighbour-note motion but an example isn't jumping to mind immediately, probably because my head has not been in a classical place recently.

xpost

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:13 (five years ago) Permalink

I guess that's the thing: if one just looks for the neighbour-note pattern over the implied harmony (like in "Carnival of Sorts" - possibly my favourite REM song btw), it's probably there all over the place. However, "sus4-triad-sus2-triad" implies that a full chord is stated each time, as it is in most of these songs. And that's probably much rarer in common practice music.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Saturday, 20 July 2013 03:19 (five years ago) Permalink

I was sure I remembered Frank Zappa saying something about this in 'The Real Frank Zappa Book" and yes, I knew I could rely on some Zappa obsessive somewhere on the net to have quoted it, so I didn't have to go and dig the damn thing from the back of the bookcase...

"Musically, the northern bands had a little more country style. In L.A., it was folk-rock to death. Everything had that fucking D chord down at the bottom of the neck where you wiggle your finger around—like "Needles and Pins."

Bloody Snail, Saturday, 20 July 2013 21:52 (five years ago) Permalink

Ha. Although I also remember reading somewhere him saying that the ii-V7-I progression should be outlawed.

Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 20 July 2013 21:58 (five years ago) Permalink

That reminds me that some bands did this on "Hey Joe." The Love version, for example.

timellison, Sunday, 21 July 2013 04:41 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" does this, actually, although it goes Dsus4-D all the time. "Tangerine" is the one with this figure.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 13:46 (five years ago) Permalink

'Show Me The Way' by Small Faces?

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:00 (five years ago) Permalink

Although you have to wait until about 1:29 to hear it.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Sunday, 21 July 2013 14:02 (five years ago) Permalink

C#m/G#, that should be

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 16:24 (five years ago) Permalink

unless it's Amaj7/G#

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 16:24 (five years ago) Permalink

(Man, Plant's voice on II.)

(was still really powerful and full-bodied was what I meant, to digress. I wish he still sang like that when Page's end of things got really great on IV/HotH/PG.)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 17:32 (five years ago) Permalink

OK, back on track now

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 17:42 (five years ago) Permalink

Whoop, you're right about Adele. In my head I was confusing the piano intro with that of Jewel's "Foolish Games"

flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 17:54 (five years ago) Permalink

Funny, I have a little riff I made up with this a few years ago (in D) and I've been trying to figure out which song I stole it from. But I think it's not so much that I stole as it sounds like a lot of other things. It's for sure one of the easiest things a novice guitarist can do to sound like they know something.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Sunday, 21 July 2013 18:01 (five years ago) Permalink

Oh, that's the first example someone's given of this in a minor key!
xpost

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 18:06 (five years ago) Permalink

Hm, I was honestly just shooting the shit when I started this thread but I'm starting to wonder if there's a paper to be written here. ILX would get any due credit if I ever actually write something, obv.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 18:45 (five years ago) Permalink

Ha, I'm listening to Wilco and "One Sunday Morning (Song for Jane Smiley's Boyfriend)" does this in F with a ^4-^3-^2-^1 line in the highest voice (^2-^3-^4-^3-^2-^1 if you consider the whole riff).

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:21 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't know if that actually counts as suspended chords though because he's basically just playing that melodic line with the harmony being implied.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:30 (five years ago) Permalink

"wicked little town" from "hedwig and the angry inch"

(which makes two of these that the breeders covered, along with "so sad about us.")

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:30 (five years ago) Permalink

Probably too easy to just find examples ^4-^3-^2-^1 over the tonic in the bass, although there's no real functional difference.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:40 (five years ago) Permalink

the other one guitarist/songwriters like a lot is descending from the major triad, to major seventh to dominant seventh chord, e.g. the verse in strawberry fields forever or Something (which also features the rarer minor chord version)

Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:54 (five years ago) Permalink

the other one guitarist/songwriters like a lot is descending from the major triad, to major seventh to dominant seventh chord, e.g. the verse in strawberry fields forever or Something (which also features the rarer minor chord version)

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:54 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fucking hell, it's like you just read my mind... was just thinking this!

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:58 (five years ago) Permalink

I call it the 'Can't Take My Eyes Off You' progression because that's where I first remember hearing it.

I wanna live like C'MOWN! people (Turrican), Sunday, 21 July 2013 19:58 (five years ago) Permalink

I don't think "Stairway to Heaven" does this

No, but a sus2-triad-sus4 progression is used in the breakdown before the solo.

Vast Halo, Sunday, 21 July 2013 20:53 (five years ago) Permalink

"Here's Where You Belong" by The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band http://youtu.be/-AXjkHuYxXA

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Sunday, 21 July 2013 21:13 (five years ago) Permalink

Hmmmmm. I dunno, Sund4r, this is too common a musical device to really derive any interesting conclusions, imo.

flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 21 July 2013 21:29 (five years ago) Permalink

Tend to agree with with that. Sorry, Sund4r.

Orpheus in Hull (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 21 July 2013 21:31 (five years ago) Permalink

You're probably right. I like to feel like I'm not just wasting time though.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 July 2013 22:17 (five years ago) Permalink

Talking about wasting time, I once figured out how to play the So Sad About Us progression in G so I could put in the truck driver key change up to A

Dr X O'Skeleton, Monday, 22 July 2013 10:10 (five years ago) Permalink

Me I'm interested in songs that have changeable 4ths. #4 on the verses, then hit a solid IV-chord on the choruses. Most on-the-nose example is Grizzly Bear "Two Weeks". Or chorus of "This guy's in love with you", where the introduction of the #4 (as a secondary dominant) feels like the sun coming out. Or XTC "Travels in Nihilon", where it sounds like the end of the world.

flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 22 July 2013 11:07 (five years ago) Permalink

I think You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory by Johnny Thunders does this.

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Monday, 22 July 2013 11:12 (five years ago) Permalink

This being the thread title, not flamboyant goon tie included's example.

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Monday, 22 July 2013 11:12 (five years ago) Permalink

I was sure I remembered Frank Zappa saying something about this in 'The Real Frank Zappa Book" and yes, I knew I could rely on some Zappa obsessive somewhere on the net to have quoted it, so I didn't have to go and dig the damn thing from the back of the bookcase...

Doesn't he do it, as a poke at folk rock, on a song on "We're Only In It For the Money"? Possibly "Flower Punk"? I'd have to check, but the the inspiration might well be this:

That reminds me that some bands did this on "Hey Joe." The Love version, for example.

Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Monday, 22 July 2013 11:50 (five years ago) Permalink

the other one guitarist/songwriters like a lot is descending from the major triad, to major seventh to dominant seventh chord, e.g. the verse in strawberry fields forever or Something (which also features the rarer minor chord version)

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Sunday, July 21, 2013 7:54 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Fucking hell, it's like you just read my mind... was just thinking this!

Or a variation of that, Em - Em/M7 - Em7 - Em6, eg the "bossa nova" sections of the Beatles' "I Want You (She's So Heavy)." Aimee Mann uses this one a lot.

it itches like a porky pine sitting on your dick (Phil D.), Monday, 22 July 2013 12:10 (five years ago) Permalink

Brass in Pocket
All I want is you

29 facepalms, Monday, 22 July 2013 13:48 (five years ago) Permalink

"Brass in Pocket" is triad-sus2-sus4-triad.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 22 July 2013 14:50 (five years ago) Permalink

On one listen, I think the figure in "All I Want Is You" is more just vacillation between the triad and sus2 before the root itself changes.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Monday, 22 July 2013 14:57 (five years ago) Permalink

REM - "Half A World Away" (I think... might be triad-sus4-triad-sus2 though?)

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 24 July 2013 19:53 (five years ago) Permalink

Patience - GnR

More Than a Century With the Polaris Emblem (calstars), Wednesday, 24 July 2013 19:57 (five years ago) Permalink

John Lennon - "Woman" (the intro) first example that pops into my head. And yes, this chord pattern does seem more rare in songs from the last 15 years or so, at least in pop-oriented stuff.

Lee626, Wednesday, 24 July 2013 22:27 (five years ago) Permalink

"Carnival of Sorts" on A in the chorus, but I think he's just playing the notes (4-3-2-1).

ditto -- in a much more pronounced way -- on the A turnaround between the chorus and verse of "don't go back to rockville."

fact checking cuz, Wednesday, 24 July 2013 22:57 (five years ago) Permalink

"Money Changes Everything" has this, I believe. Also Beefheart's "Call On Me" and several songs by the Beau Brummels ("Sad Little Girl", "I Want You", "Don't Talk To Strangers", maybe more.)

Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Thursday, 25 July 2013 08:30 (five years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

The Beatles - "Anytime at All" (after the chorus)

timellison, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 21:41 (five years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

"American Pie"

timellison, Thursday, 17 October 2013 21:54 (five years ago) Permalink

four years pass...

The Doors "Love Street" in a little turn before it modulates at 2:08.

timellison, Monday, 5 March 2018 00:56 (nine months ago) Permalink

The "hold on" section of the bridge in "Ballad of El Goodo" is written around this, including the vocal melody. Nice to run into our old friend in an essential, rather than embellishing, role.

mick signals, Monday, 5 March 2018 01:34 (nine months ago) Permalink

Wire, "French Film Blurred"

Following the line, "On the day the vibrations will shake your bones".

Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Monday, 5 March 2018 10:28 (nine months ago) Permalink

opening day, that is

Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Monday, 5 March 2018 10:29 (nine months ago) Permalink

'VCR' by the XX does this around the C triad on all the verses.

campreverb, Monday, 5 March 2018 16:18 (nine months ago) Permalink

Velvet Underground, "I'm Set Free".

Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Monday, 5 March 2018 16:43 (nine months ago) Permalink

Surprised The Beatles - "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" hasn't been mentioned.

Also I think Pearl Jam - "Down" qualifies.

carrotless, turnip-pocketed (fionnland), Monday, 5 March 2018 21:36 (nine months ago) Permalink

sugar "if i can't change your mind" (on the C triad on intro and verses)

fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:07 (nine months ago) Permalink

It comes up in Taylor Swift's "I'm Only Me When I'm With You" here, which has to be one of the most recent appearances in a popular song.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:15 (nine months ago) Permalink

I'm surprised "Hide Your Love Away" didn't come up earlier too! "Love Street" and Sugar = good catches.

The "hold on" section of the bridge in "Ballad of El Goodo" is written around this, including the vocal melody. Nice to run into our old friend in an essential, rather than embellishing, role.

Wow, good one.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:41 (nine months ago) Permalink

I haven't listened to the third VU album in a long time. I forgot about this one.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 6 March 2018 02:51 (nine months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

We missed "Shaking Through" in the R.E.M. accounting!

timellison, Friday, 6 April 2018 19:20 (eight months ago) Permalink

David Bowie - "Kooks" almost does this but just D to Dsus4

Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 11 April 2018 22:36 (eight months ago) Permalink

Bruce Springsteen - Brilliant Disguise

Ρεμπετολογια, Wednesday, 11 April 2018 23:05 (eight months ago) Permalink


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