Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

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from the Lady Gaga ARTPOP thread:

i have a theory that every super popular artist has a "New Jersey" - like Bon Jovi's album New Jersey -- where it's still super popular and even more popular than the albums that preceded it but there's some sense that the gig is up.

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:21 AM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^
that'd be a nice thread (if it doesn't already exist)!

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:24 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw dudes i was like a kid when New Jersey came out...but even me as just a fan, i kinda *wanted* to like New Jersey as much, and there was some sense that it was a "big deal" and i should like it and i bought the cassette but i think we all could sense it just wasn't *as good*...i'm not sure what critics thought but i bet they did, i didn't read reviews or have access to them.

so i wasn't talking critically.

but anyway like as time goes by you'll find that people going to gaga show would be way more jazzed about like "bad romance" than "edge of glory"...

like I'm trying to think of another example....Graduation is Kanye's New Jersey.....that's another example....

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:40 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You're black, white, beige, POLLa descent: Lady Gaga - Born This Way (poll)

― lex pretend, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:46 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and people get on me about MY poll titles!

(j/k, i am curious to see how this one turns out...)

― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:49 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Graduation is Kanye's New Jersey.....that's another example....

I think it's a stronger case to say 808s was his New Jersey

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:50 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think of a band's New Jersey as their bigger but hollower victory lap album so def Graduation not 808s

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:54 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"bigger" meaning bombast not necessarily sales

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:55 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NJ had five top tens including two #1's and except for "Bad Medicine" they've all vanished from the face of the earth

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:55 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck that noise "I'll Be There For You" will always be there for me

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:56 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Born To Be My Baby" and "Lay Your Hands On Me" are definitely arena filler though

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:56 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

all i remember about "living in sin" is that the video seemed risque when i last saw it in elementary school

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

omg I had completely blocked "Living In Sin" from my memory

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

parents got upset when "Living in Sin" showed two mulleted youths defying society and good fashion taste and I think MTV banned it from playing during daylight hours or something

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seriously mad at all of you right now, gah

you are ruining my JAMC because all I can hear over "Catchfire" is the chorus to "Living In Sin"

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:58 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

To be a New Jersey:
- follow-up to a huge, (possibly) defining record
- has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)

Sound about right?

I'll go ahead and nominate 'Here's to Future Days.'

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

then I nominate Huey Lewis and the News' Fore!.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^ SO otm

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:01 PM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Did Around the World in a Day feel that way in '85?

― Eric H., Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:02 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:04 (four years ago) Permalink

Fore! is the fourth album by American rock band Huey Lewis and the News, released in 1986 (see 1986 in music). The album hit number one on the Billboard 200 album chart and contained five top-ten Billboard Hot 100 singles, including the number-one hits: "Stuck with You" and "Jacob's Ladder."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:04 (four years ago) Permalink

this is American Life in a nutshell

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:05 (four years ago) Permalink

or wait, is it Music? I think actually Music is the album that qualifies

I'm so bad at this

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:06 (four years ago) Permalink

ZZ TOP - Afterburner

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:07 (four years ago) Permalink

are we conflating "victory lap" albums with Huge Event Albums That Ultimately Feel Shallow?

cuz Music feels like both!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:07 (four years ago) Permalink

Cher - Heart of Stone

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:09 (four years ago) Permalink

how i phrased it in the other thread:

it's just an album that survived mostly on zeitgeist and professionalism that in hindsight served as a stopgap before a major drop or left turn

not everyone has one!

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (four years ago) Permalink

This would technically have to be an album that really DID mark the end of an artist's era, right? Like, we're talking artists that only ascended to the apex once and then fell almost just as fast? If so, Madonna probably doesn't exactly qualify.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (four years ago) Permalink

ZZ TOP - Afterburner

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:07 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^bingo

Dan, for most people Madonna is an 80s artists or an early 90s artists at the very latest....she wasn't huge in pop culture by then, you could make a case for Erotica but i don't think she has a New Jersey.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (four years ago) Permalink

but either way madonna was no where near her zeitgiest or sales peak on ray of light, which is what i think dan is suggesting?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (four years ago) Permalink

R.E.M. - Monster

From Wikipedia:
Monster debuted #1 in the US and UK charts. "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" and "Bang and Blame" were the band's last American Top 40 hits. Their following album New Adventures in Hi-Fi debuted at number two in the US and number one in the UK. The five million copies of the album sold were a reversal of the group's commercial fortunes of the previous five years.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (four years ago) Permalink

Mj's "bad"

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (four years ago) Permalink

Music doesn't count cuz "Don't Tell Me" is like one of her biggest late era hits and people love that album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (four years ago) Permalink

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (four years ago) Permalink

An element of buyer's remorse also factors in. The "I realized one album too late that he/she/they were never all that."

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (four years ago) Permalink

it's funny....Watch the Throne ISN'T one of these because of where it fits in their careers, but man does it FEEL like one.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (four years ago) Permalink

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

― skip, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:11 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^great example

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (four years ago) Permalink

xpost I mean, that's the pulse reading everyone's giving Born This Way now.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (four years ago) Permalink

Melon Collie has too many fans to count. Plus "1979"!

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:13 (four years ago) Permalink

Smashing Pumpkins fans aren't saying "oh man I can't even remember those Melon Collie singles"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:13 (four years ago) Permalink

interesting though how some bands react to this: so I'd say Rattle & Hum is U2's New Jersey but their best albums came afterward; or am I f'ing this up?

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:14 (four years ago) Permalink

Monster is probably a much better mid 90s example of this though... Mellon Collie certainly has its "hollow" moments but "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" is probably the real beginning of the end for SP.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:15 (four years ago) Permalink

This would technically have to be an album that really DID mark the end of an artist's era, right? Like, we're talking artists that only ascended to the apex once and then fell almost just as fast? If so, Madonna probably doesn't exactly qualify.

well, the thing about being the end of Bon Jovi's era is that it was the end of the era where they got automatic radio play; they still sell out practically every venue they play and every album they've released since Slippery When Wet has hit the top ten, most often #1

so, I feel a lot of this is based on perception rather than actual performance; Ray of Light has sold more copies than Like A Prayer, for example

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (four years ago) Permalink

I don't want to admit Monster counts cuz I love it but the sheer number of copies sold back probably defines "buyer's remorse"

Rattle & Hum probably counts in that it was definitely followed by a left turn and people today would be like "um, Angel In Harlem was a top 20 hit? Really?"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (four years ago) Permalink

I get the sense artists don't recover from their New Jersey.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (four years ago) Permalink

Dancing on the Ceiling - Lionel Richie

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (four years ago) Permalink

xpost - Monster is, in many ways, the iconic Used CD.

on an indie rock level:

The Shins - Chutes too Narrow

interesting though how some bands react to this: so I'd say Rattle & Hum is U2's New Jersey but their best albums came afterward; or am I f'ing this up?

― Euler, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah but Rattle & Hum is a New Jersey...U2 just did the trick of pulling a Kid A after a New Jersey

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (four years ago) Permalink

haha raffles is good at this

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (four years ago) Permalink

Bon Jovi has certainly had a ton of hits and made a ton of cash since but it was definitely a game changer. Madonna doesn't quite work because basically she was Queen Shit and aging gracefully (with a mild mis-step around Erotica) and then made American Life.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (four years ago) Permalink

Human touch/Lucky town

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (four years ago) Permalink

well, the thing about being the end of Bon Jovi's era is that it was the end of the era where they got automatic radio play; they still sell out practically every venue they play and every album they've released since Slippery When Wet has hit the top ten, most often #1

Maybe then it's less a signpost of "career decline" and more a mass discovery of career limits that didn't previously seem obvious/relevant.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (four years ago) Permalink

Mj's "bad"

I would say it's probably Dangerous, that was MJ's first CD-length album and clearly was meant to be the start of a new era, free from QJ, on to a different sound, etc. etc. And there were a ton of singles from it but compared to Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad, only maybe one of them is still ubiquitous today (and that one is one of his most routinely mocked).

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (four years ago) Permalink

Even less-huge artists have this. e.g., Replacements and Don't Tell a Soul.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (four years ago) Permalink

Genesis - I Can't Dance (in re: the career of Phil Collins)

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (four years ago) Permalink

Don Henley - The End of the Innocence

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (four years ago) Permalink

that album still has a lot of respect for a Don Henley album - in Don's career I'd argue Eagles' Hell Freezes Over

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:21 (four years ago) Permalink

Wait a sec, what about NIN - The Fragile

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:21 (four years ago) Permalink

nice one frogbs

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:22 (four years ago) Permalink

yeah but i don't think a New Jersey is necessarily terrible or even critical reviled, it can be good and popular etc but there's this inexpressible sense that the era of this artist is slipping away even as they are super popular at the moment.

Wait a sec, what about NIN - The Fragile

― frogbs, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:21 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^this would be a great pick but Trent lets too much time go in between albums, it was a different era when he reemerged, but if it were like a year or two after the downward spiral i'd be totally on board

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:23 (four years ago) Permalink

thing is, an album like End Of The Innocence or Melon Collie isn't loaded with the sense of somebody slipping away, it's just the last album they made before it happened.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:24 (four years ago) Permalink

and with the pumpkins it's more like Madonna where they had to go and push the envelope too far on the next album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (four years ago) Permalink

Mellencamp "Lonesome Jubilee"

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (four years ago) Permalink

ultimately i am not the world's foremost don henley expert....so i will defer.

melon collie DID have some hits, and at least one (1979) that's beloved, but man even at the time that was a fucking SLOG

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (four years ago) Permalink

I hate myself for writing this but... Wild Mood Swings

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (four years ago) Permalink

INXS - Welcome to Wherever You Are

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (four years ago) Permalink

Mellencamp "Lonesome Jubilee"

― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:25 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^good one

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (four years ago) Permalink

I hate myself for writing this but... Wild Mood Swings

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 1:26 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wouldnt wish be a better examp

Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (four years ago) Permalink

I wish Weezer's Make Believe had been one of these but they are just as popular as ever.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (four years ago) Permalink

this would be a great pick but Trent lets too much time go in between albums, it was a different era when he reemerged, but if it were like a year or two after the downward spiral i'd be totally on board

I see what you mean, this is why I didn't really want to mention Human After All because the follow-up to Discovery would have been huge had it came out in 2003. But The Fragile still sold boatloads.

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:27 (four years ago) Permalink

I feel like Christina Aguilera's decline came more from being unable to keep up with changing pop landscape that occurred between the two albums, where artists that were huge in 2006 were no longer to be found in 2010. Like she teased a shift to a more electronic based sound with "Keeps Gettin Better" from her Greatest Hits album in the fall of 2008, but by the time she was ready to release her 2010 album the world had already embraced Lady Gaga and the like, and thus seemed to be lagging behind everyone else.

MarkoP, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 14:45 (two months ago) Permalink

It seems weird, when you have a case study like Aguilara, why acts are still taking 3 or 4 years between albums

duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 14:53 (two months ago) Permalink

God now I'm remembering Bionic... that album was an atrocity

Back to Basics was released before Back to Black somehow, and seemed on the pulse of something new. (Has anybody ever explored the connection between these two albums? Kinda weird that two similarly-mused blockbusters with similar titles came out within months of each other).

Bionic was her post Gaga/Kesha album, and seemed to arrive shrouded in defeat. Better to do your own thing than to play catch up, I guess.

Evan R, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 14:53 (two months ago) Permalink

Had she capitalized on the momentum of Keeps Gettin' Better, which was was a top ten hit and released just before Gaga got super big, things might have turned out differently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkPxgUshpec

I feel like this song is mostly forgotten.

MarkoP, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 15:00 (two months ago) Permalink

I think the problem with post-2008 Aguilera was less market positioning or timing or w/e and simply the fact that all of her songs sucked

Evan R, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 15:02 (two months ago) Permalink

That's probably true as well.

I've also found it interesting it wasn't until 2012 that she finally did a song that was co-written by Max Martin.

MarkoP, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 15:04 (two months ago) Permalink

To some extent I think she just had the right thing, wrong time, though maybe sounded a couple of just slightly sour notes with the general public. Like I feel like with both "Dirrrty" and later "Not Myself Tonight" she was rocking different kinds of uncompromising sexuality that were kinda not what the world wanted or was ready to get on board with, one too hot and the other too cold. But both really confident and strong and interesting - realer, but more icy and intimidating than, say, Gaga or Rihanna tapping into the same S&M tropes as the "Not Myself Tonight" videos. Those two made the material seem more fun and more safe (or at least just part of palette of funky quirky artsiness). Put another way, Xtina reads to me as proudly performing her own fantasies and fuck you if you it doesn't get you off, where obviously she would have sold better if she'd spun it more into cheesecake for the young straight male audience. (Even "Candyman" actually feels more like being in drag as a cheesecake pinup than any attempt to become a present-day object of late-night longing.) I mean:

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/web05/2012/8/21/17/enhanced-buzz-20820-1345584924-10.jpg

^^^ this is totally awesome to me but also totally not "commercial." Stronger songs might have certainly helped - even as I'm writing this, I admire the moves more than I want to listen to those tracks - but I think at this point Aguilera was sort of a star without an audience really interested in what she was doing. Probably, she was also saddled with the long-term narrative (three albums on!) of "woah, watch out! The teen idol is shedding her old image and getting S-E-X-Y!" which obscured what was specifically going on with the music, the lyrics or the videos. So if you weren't on board with any of the above, it was easy to write it off as "declining star trying to shock people and get attention with sex" which ties into lots of gendered stuff that I probably don't even need to parse out re: which people get defined as skanky, desperate, etc. etc.

I was going to also say that she seemed to be actually aping Gaga, specifically the "Alejandro" video, but I looked it up and the "Not Myself Tonight" clip actually dropped a couple months earlier! Huh.

✓ (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 16:00 (two months ago) Permalink

there was basically no momentum to speak of with "keeps gettin' better" -- it was technically a top ten 'hit' on the strength of first-week download sales (i.e. her diehard fans), but it tumbled off the charts shortly after. i barely heard it on the radio at the time and naturally have never heard it since then. it is indeed mostly forgotten.

bionic really was a disaster. it had been talked up so much as being somewhat boundary-pushing for a mainstream pop album, and then it just... wasn't. and the songs really weren't there save for a couple that were perplexingly made bonus tracks. lotus was very nearly irredeemable.

dyl, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 16:39 (two months ago) Permalink

It seems weird, when you have a case study like Aguilara, why acts are still taking 3 or 4 years between albums

― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Tuesday, May 9, 2017 10:53 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so many reasons for this with pop stars - legal limbo, getting producers, getting songs, planning the album campaign - like she can't just pop into the studio and cut a record in two weeks

flappy bird, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 17:18 (two months ago) Permalink

but more than anything it's label politics and bullshit - reminds me of Sky Ferreira's label taking the budget for her followup record and giving it to Halsey.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 17:19 (two months ago) Permalink

capitol must be a mess right now. their flagship pop artist katy perry is currently in the midst of the steepest commercial decline recent years have seen and their next big hope halsey is just starting to scrape the top 40 with a "needed me" ripoff. like how out of touch are they

dyl, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 18:02 (two months ago) Permalink

i find myself wishing stars like Christina would just say "fuck it" and ditch the whole circus and go make a terrific record on the cheap somewhere. what are some examples - if any exist - of a star that big doing something like that?

or is it basically impossible because many at that level *need* the "getting producers, getting songs" part of the process to actually create something, and that part of the process costs lots of money?

like, i have no idea if you all are gonna say "nobody's done that" OR "here are 20 good examples"

alpine static, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 19:46 (two months ago) Permalink

definitely depends how many instruments they can play / if they can be their own producer. like i imagine Lady Gaga could make a solo piano record in a week if she wanted or needed to. amy winehouse could've. britney spears definitely couldn't

flappy bird, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 19:51 (two months ago) Permalink

I would assume most major artists' contracts preclude them from ditching the whole circus and making a terrific record on the cheap somewhere

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:21 (two months ago) Permalink

idk that Miley record with the Flaming Lips?

duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:23 (two months ago) Permalink

charli xcx's number 1 angel, maybe

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:26 (two months ago) Permalink

(if you buy that it was recorded behind the label's back, which I kinda don't)

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:26 (two months ago) Permalink

going back there's Nebraska

Nashville seems to let its stars do low-key vanity albums every once in awhile-- your bluegrass, gospel, Americana-like, instrumental guitar records etc

duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:27 (two months ago) Permalink

Pink kinda did that on her third album - she got together with Tim Armstrong from Rancid and wrote 10 songs in a week, then padded the album out with a couple of Linda Perry leftovers and a song with Peaches. Everyone hates it, but it's my favorite of her albums.

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:30 (two months ago) Permalink

I would assume most major artists' contracts preclude them from ditching the whole circus and making a terrific record on the cheap somewhere

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, May 9, 2017 4:21 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well yeah, but what are those contracts like? 3-4 record deal? by the time an artist reaches this theoretical point, they would've presumably already run out their contract.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:32 (two months ago) Permalink

360 deals, surely

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:35 (two months ago) Permalink

xxxp alpine static it may not have been done on the cheap but ANTI is the all-time 'Fuck it' album by a pop star ever.

piscesx, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:38 (two months ago) Permalink

in what universe does an album that hones in on the most successful part of its all-over-the-place predecessor ("Pour It Up"), has well-curated features including fucking Drake, and generally hews to sonic trends qualify as a "fuck it" album

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:40 (two months ago) Permalink

like I know that's the marketing but come on

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:40 (two months ago) Permalink

when did 360 deals become the norm?

flappy bird, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:52 (two months ago) Permalink

that's a great point, i didn't think about that - those deals are insane. touring? merch????

flappy bird, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:53 (two months ago) Permalink

are they 10 year contracts or something

flappy bird, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 20:53 (two months ago) Permalink

^^ When Ticketmaster became LiveNation.

to pimp a barfly (Eazy), Tuesday, 9 May 2017 21:07 (two months ago) Permalink

I would assume most major artists' contracts preclude them from ditching the whole circus and making a terrific record on the cheap somewhere

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Tuesday, May 9, 2017 1:21 PM (two hours ago)

indeed, i would assume this, too; as flappy bird said, i meant "when they end a contract / have an opportunity legally" but didn't say it!

fun responses ... i probably should've started a thread

alpine static, Tuesday, 9 May 2017 22:56 (two months ago) Permalink

I was going to also say that she seemed to be actually aping Gaga, specifically the "Alejandro" video, but I looked it up and the "Not Myself Tonight" clip actually dropped a couple months earlier! Huh.

It was pretty obvious (and intentional I'm sure) that she was aping the "Express Yourself", "Human Nature", "Like A Prayer", and "Freedom 90" videos, but with a 10th of the budget.

Gaga was aping "Express Yourself" and "Vogue" for "Alejandro", hence the similarities.

LeRooLeRoo, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 00:15 (two months ago) Permalink

360 deals became the norm when album sales fell off a cliff. paramore was one of the first bands to be famous for signing one; u2 and madonna were trumpeted to have signed them with live nation although they didn't fully close because LN was lacking in label infrastructure.

i love this song from LOTUS. it's very similar in feel to charli xcx's semi contemporaneous "superlove"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TeHR0IrTDcI

there's a dearth of female pop personalities on the radio right now and the struggles gaga and KP have been having are a symptom of that. rihanna is the exception that proves the rule

maura, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 01:53 (two months ago) Permalink

but this week the only woman in the top 10 is selena gomez, who's on a kygo song. the other women on radio right now all have bland names (mostly mononymic) and sound like they're on the verge of sneezing fits - daya, etc. even halsey was sanded down into the chainsmokers dink's mirror image for her big chart topper. the better to fit into a chainsmokers or louis the child track i guess but it sure makes everything sound boring.

maura, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 01:56 (two months ago) Permalink

the other women on radio right now all have bland names (mostly mononymic) and sound like they're on the verge of sneezing fits

lolol love U

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 02:01 (two months ago) Permalink

i find myself wishing stars like Christina would just say "fuck it" and ditch the whole circus and go make a terrific record on the cheap somewhere. what are some examples - if any exist - of a star that big doing something like that?

I guess Kid A and to a much lesser extent Yankee Hotel Foxtrot are the paradigms of that.

attention vampire (MatthewK), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 02:35 (two months ago) Permalink

What is Radiohead's "What a Girl Wants"

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 02:37 (two months ago) Permalink

yea this only applies to popstars mired in bad contracts and label politics

flappy bird, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 02:52 (two months ago) Permalink

oh man i hope this thread can become the seedbed for ANOTHER topic where people endlessly propose acts and situations that don't even remotely fit the premise

✓ (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 03:21 (two months ago) Permalink

(<3 you all but really)

✓ (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 03:23 (two months ago) Permalink

nelly furtado sort of put out a record like that this year

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 03:42 (two months ago) Permalink

i find myself wishing stars like Christina would just say "fuck it" and ditch the whole circus and go make a terrific record on the cheap somewhere. what are some examples - if any exist - of a star that big doing something like that?

how important is the cheap part? feel like Frank Ocean did something like this but Blonde cost a couple million iirc

niels, Wednesday, 10 May 2017 06:13 (two months ago) Permalink

yes, how dare people stray from the laser-focused premise of "super popular and even more popular than the albums that preceded it but there's some sense that the gig is up"

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 06:52 (two months ago) Permalink

ok lol but tbf there was a lot of hashing out of nuance from there, and the thread does describe something specific enough that it got really silly when people started trying to submit things like the eighth Boredoms album or whatever. like there's probably a thread where it would be very fun to talk about niche acts and their respective arcs, but submitting them here was like saying "i haven't read anything in the thread and only half the words in the title but how about this one folks?"

✓ (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 11:27 (two months ago) Permalink

Feel like with all the clowning on Drake nowadays it's increasingly clear Views was a New Jersey

I got da Midas touch as you fucking were LG x (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 May 2017 13:27 (two months ago) Permalink

Somehow skipped this thread for four years... just spent like 3 hours reading the whole thing.

Laughed at this

all rap new jerseys are actually called new jeruz

Some rap New Jeruz that haven't been mentioned I don't think:

Master P - MA da Last Don
actually his highest selling album (4 mill) but clearly the end of the line for him. and no memorable songs.

Wyclef - The Ecleftic: 2 Sides II a Book
sold quite a bit based off the success of the carnival, had that one song w the rock. 911 still a jam tho.

LL Cool J - 14 Shots to the Dome & GOAT think he had two .

Luda - Release Therapy

DMX - The Great Depression

Ice Cube - War n Peace

Spottie, Saturday, 13 May 2017 08:26 (two months ago) Permalink

four weeks pass...

Witness.

piscesx, Saturday, 10 June 2017 13:51 (one month ago) Permalink

Nelly - Sweat/Suit

flappy bird, Saturday, 10 June 2017 16:19 (one month ago) Permalink

people keep forgetting this part: where it's still super popular and even more popular than the albums that preceded it but there's some sense that the gig is up.

i.e. witness would not be a New Jersey, but Prism might

sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Saturday, 10 June 2017 21:13 (one month ago) Permalink

Yeah I thought we had already decided that Prism was a NJ

President Keyes, Sunday, 11 June 2017 00:34 (one month ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

surely Bee Gees 'Spirits Having Flown' is one of these? it featured 3 US number 1s, shifted 16 million copies. the follow up Living Eyes sold 750,000.

piscesx, Sunday, 2 July 2017 19:32 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Got discussed way back in the early days of the thread iirc! I agree with you.

﴿→ ☺ (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 2 July 2017 20:02 (three weeks ago) Permalink


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