Every huge artist has their "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

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from the Lady Gaga ARTPOP thread:

i have a theory that every super popular artist has a "New Jersey" - like Bon Jovi's album New Jersey -- where it's still super popular and even more popular than the albums that preceded it but there's some sense that the gig is up.

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:21 AM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^
that'd be a nice thread (if it doesn't already exist)!

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:24 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

btw dudes i was like a kid when New Jersey came out...but even me as just a fan, i kinda *wanted* to like New Jersey as much, and there was some sense that it was a "big deal" and i should like it and i bought the cassette but i think we all could sense it just wasn't *as good*...i'm not sure what critics thought but i bet they did, i didn't read reviews or have access to them.

so i wasn't talking critically.

but anyway like as time goes by you'll find that people going to gaga show would be way more jazzed about like "bad romance" than "edge of glory"...

like I'm trying to think of another example....Graduation is Kanye's New Jersey.....that's another example....

― Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:40 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You're black, white, beige, POLLa descent: Lady Gaga - Born This Way (poll)

― lex pretend, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:46 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and people get on me about MY poll titles!

(j/k, i am curious to see how this one turns out...)

― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:49 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Graduation is Kanye's New Jersey.....that's another example....

I think it's a stronger case to say 808s was his New Jersey

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:50 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think of a band's New Jersey as their bigger but hollower victory lap album so def Graduation not 808s

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:54 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"bigger" meaning bombast not necessarily sales

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:55 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NJ had five top tens including two #1's and except for "Bad Medicine" they've all vanished from the face of the earth

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:55 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fuck that noise "I'll Be There For You" will always be there for me

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:56 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Born To Be My Baby" and "Lay Your Hands On Me" are definitely arena filler though

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:56 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

all i remember about "living in sin" is that the video seemed risque when i last saw it in elementary school

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

omg I had completely blocked "Living In Sin" from my memory

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

parents got upset when "Living in Sin" showed two mulleted youths defying society and good fashion taste and I think MTV banned it from playing during daylight hours or something

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:57 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

seriously mad at all of you right now, gah

you are ruining my JAMC because all I can hear over "Catchfire" is the chorus to "Living In Sin"

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:58 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

To be a New Jersey:
- follow-up to a huge, (possibly) defining record
- has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)

Sound about right?

I'll go ahead and nominate 'Here's to Future Days.'

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

then I nominate Huey Lewis and the News' Fore!.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:01 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^ SO otm

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:01 PM (38 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Did Around the World in a Day feel that way in '85?

― Eric H., Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:02 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:04 (nine years ago) link

Fore! is the fourth album by American rock band Huey Lewis and the News, released in 1986 (see 1986 in music). The album hit number one on the Billboard 200 album chart and contained five top-ten Billboard Hot 100 singles, including the number-one hits: "Stuck with You" and "Jacob's Ladder."

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:04 (nine years ago) link

this is American Life in a nutshell

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:05 (nine years ago) link

or wait, is it Music? I think actually Music is the album that qualifies

I'm so bad at this

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:06 (nine years ago) link

ZZ TOP - Afterburner

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:07 (nine years ago) link

are we conflating "victory lap" albums with Huge Event Albums That Ultimately Feel Shallow?

cuz Music feels like both!

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:07 (nine years ago) link

Cher - Heart of Stone

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:09 (nine years ago) link

how i phrased it in the other thread:

it's just an album that survived mostly on zeitgeist and professionalism that in hindsight served as a stopgap before a major drop or left turn

not everyone has one!

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (nine years ago) link

This would technically have to be an album that really DID mark the end of an artist's era, right? Like, we're talking artists that only ascended to the apex once and then fell almost just as fast? If so, Madonna probably doesn't exactly qualify.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (nine years ago) link

ZZ TOP - Afterburner

― mr.raffles, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:07 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^bingo

Dan, for most people Madonna is an 80s artists or an early 90s artists at the very latest....she wasn't huge in pop culture by then, you could make a case for Erotica but i don't think she has a New Jersey.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (nine years ago) link

but either way madonna was no where near her zeitgiest or sales peak on ray of light, which is what i think dan is suggesting?

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:10 (nine years ago) link

R.E.M. - Monster

From Wikipedia:
Monster debuted #1 in the US and UK charts. "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?" and "Bang and Blame" were the band's last American Top 40 hits. Their following album New Adventures in Hi-Fi debuted at number two in the US and number one in the UK. The five million copies of the album sold were a reversal of the group's commercial fortunes of the previous five years.

Moka, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (nine years ago) link

Mj's "bad"

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (nine years ago) link

Music doesn't count cuz "Don't Tell Me" is like one of her biggest late era hits and people love that album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (nine years ago) link

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (nine years ago) link

An element of buyer's remorse also factors in. The "I realized one album too late that he/she/they were never all that."

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:11 (nine years ago) link

it's funny....Watch the Throne ISN'T one of these because of where it fits in their careers, but man does it FEEL like one.

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (nine years ago) link

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness.

― skip, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:11 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^great example

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (nine years ago) link

xpost I mean, that's the pulse reading everyone's giving Born This Way now.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:12 (nine years ago) link

Melon Collie has too many fans to count. Plus "1979"!

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:13 (nine years ago) link

Smashing Pumpkins fans aren't saying "oh man I can't even remember those Melon Collie singles"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:13 (nine years ago) link

interesting though how some bands react to this: so I'd say Rattle & Hum is U2's New Jersey but their best albums came afterward; or am I f'ing this up?

Euler, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:14 (nine years ago) link

Monster is probably a much better mid 90s example of this though... Mellon Collie certainly has its "hollow" moments but "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" is probably the real beginning of the end for SP.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:15 (nine years ago) link

This would technically have to be an album that really DID mark the end of an artist's era, right? Like, we're talking artists that only ascended to the apex once and then fell almost just as fast? If so, Madonna probably doesn't exactly qualify.

well, the thing about being the end of Bon Jovi's era is that it was the end of the era where they got automatic radio play; they still sell out practically every venue they play and every album they've released since Slippery When Wet has hit the top ten, most often #1

so, I feel a lot of this is based on perception rather than actual performance; Ray of Light has sold more copies than Like A Prayer, for example

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (nine years ago) link

I don't want to admit Monster counts cuz I love it but the sheer number of copies sold back probably defines "buyer's remorse"

Rattle & Hum probably counts in that it was definitely followed by a left turn and people today would be like "um, Angel In Harlem was a top 20 hit? Really?"

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (nine years ago) link

I get the sense artists don't recover from their New Jersey.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:16 (nine years ago) link

Dancing on the Ceiling - Lionel Richie

mr.raffles, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (nine years ago) link

xpost - Monster is, in many ways, the iconic Used CD.

on an indie rock level:

The Shins - Chutes too Narrow

interesting though how some bands react to this: so I'd say Rattle & Hum is U2's New Jersey but their best albums came afterward; or am I f'ing this up?

― Euler, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:14 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah but Rattle & Hum is a New Jersey...U2 just did the trick of pulling a Kid A after a New Jersey

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (nine years ago) link

haha raffles is good at this

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (nine years ago) link

Bon Jovi has certainly had a ton of hits and made a ton of cash since but it was definitely a game changer. Madonna doesn't quite work because basically she was Queen Shit and aging gracefully (with a mild mis-step around Erotica) and then made American Life.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:18 (nine years ago) link

Human touch/Lucky town

Listen to this, dad (President Keyes), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (nine years ago) link

well, the thing about being the end of Bon Jovi's era is that it was the end of the era where they got automatic radio play; they still sell out practically every venue they play and every album they've released since Slippery When Wet has hit the top ten, most often #1

Maybe then it's less a signpost of "career decline" and more a mass discovery of career limits that didn't previously seem obvious/relevant.

Eric H., Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (nine years ago) link

Mj's "bad"

I would say it's probably Dangerous, that was MJ's first CD-length album and clearly was meant to be the start of a new era, free from QJ, on to a different sound, etc. etc. And there were a ton of singles from it but compared to Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad, only maybe one of them is still ubiquitous today (and that one is one of his most routinely mocked).

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:19 (nine years ago) link

Even less-huge artists have this. e.g., Replacements and Don't Tell a Soul.

something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (nine years ago) link

Genesis - I Can't Dance (in re: the career of Phil Collins)

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (nine years ago) link

Don Henley - The End of the Innocence

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:20 (nine years ago) link

that album still has a lot of respect for a Don Henley album - in Don's career I'd argue Eagles' Hell Freezes Over

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:21 (nine years ago) link

Wait a sec, what about NIN - The Fragile

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:21 (nine years ago) link

nice one frogbs

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:22 (nine years ago) link

yeah but i don't think a New Jersey is necessarily terrible or even critical reviled, it can be good and popular etc but there's this inexpressible sense that the era of this artist is slipping away even as they are super popular at the moment.

Wait a sec, what about NIN - The Fragile

― frogbs, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:21 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^this would be a great pick but Trent lets too much time go in between albums, it was a different era when he reemerged, but if it were like a year or two after the downward spiral i'd be totally on board

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:23 (nine years ago) link

thing is, an album like End Of The Innocence or Melon Collie isn't loaded with the sense of somebody slipping away, it's just the last album they made before it happened.

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:24 (nine years ago) link

and with the pumpkins it's more like Madonna where they had to go and push the envelope too far on the next album

da croupier, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (nine years ago) link

Mellencamp "Lonesome Jubilee"

chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (nine years ago) link

ultimately i am not the world's foremost don henley expert....so i will defer.

melon collie DID have some hits, and at least one (1979) that's beloved, but man even at the time that was a fucking SLOG

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:25 (nine years ago) link

I hate myself for writing this but... Wild Mood Swings

keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (nine years ago) link

INXS - Welcome to Wherever You Are

A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (nine years ago) link

Mellencamp "Lonesome Jubilee"

― chr1sb3singer, Tuesday, August 7, 2012 12:25 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^good one

Elrond Hubbard (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (nine years ago) link

I hate myself for writing this but... Wild Mood Swings

― keeping things contextual (DJP), Tuesday, August 7, 2012 1:26 PM (10 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wouldnt wish be a better examp

Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (nine years ago) link

I wish Weezer's Make Believe had been one of these but they are just as popular as ever.

skip, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:26 (nine years ago) link

this would be a great pick but Trent lets too much time go in between albums, it was a different era when he reemerged, but if it were like a year or two after the downward spiral i'd be totally on board

I see what you mean, this is why I didn't really want to mention Human After All because the follow-up to Discovery would have been huge had it came out in 2003. But The Fragile still sold boatloads.

frogbs, Tuesday, 7 August 2012 17:27 (nine years ago) link

alfred totally I was more responding to deflatormouse (also Kool G Rap doesn't really have an old school flow, despite age he had more in common with Lox than Beasties), plus that song had Lateef and Lyrics Born so I think it was being current not retro)

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 July 2021 00:08 (two months ago) link

Amidst this deeper look at the Beasties, we should examine the possibilities of their “Together Forever” tourmates Run-D.M.C having what may be the first rap New Jersey with 1988’s Tougher Than Leather. I know, we agreed on triple-platinum albums with multiple Top 10 hits, a requirement that this album unfortunately does not meet.

However, when you look deeper at the qualifications, we, much like the first track on NJ, will realize that “right now the rules we made are meant for breaking”

A counter to the arguments against Tougher Than Leather:

1. Only 1x platinum, following an album (Raising Hell) that only went 3x platinum

Considering how little attention was paid to rap/hip-hop by the mainstream music establishment, and the lack of interest in seeing any real changes in said establishment, one has to believe that if we were not in the pre-SoundScan/Yo! MTV Raps-era, both of these albums would have been certified at around triple these figures.

2. Raising Hell, the Slippery When Wet in this scenario, spawned only 1 Top 10 hit (“Walk This Way”), 1 other Top 30 (“You Be Illin’”), and 1 other Top 60 (“It’s Tricky”).

While the chart listings might say otherwise, Raising Hell definitely met “the one everybody loves” status. To somehow chart 3 singles during an era when Top 40 radio was doing damn near everything it could to avoid playing any rap (anecdote != data, but when I lived in Lexington/Louisville/Cincinnati metro area in 1988, several radio stations openly advertised themselves as playing “absolutely NO rap!”), if you force a radio format to re-invent itself – even temporarily - this should be automatic Slippery status.

3. “Tougher Than Leather” did not follow the trad NJ phenomenon where the 1st single (“Run’s House”) seemed so much like an extension of the previous album to where it ends up being as big – if not more - of a hit as those singles. Is it not a Fairweather Johnson?

No. The radio landscape in ’88 for rap was still extremely unwelcoming, and the emerging pop-rap scene was getting most of the (still miniscule) airplay. Tougher Than Leather’s singles were less-poppy than Raising Hell’s (as were Paul’s Boutique’s vs License To Ill’s). Radio made a slight movement towards rap - just not their rap. Still, “Mary, Mary” hit 75 on the Billboard Hot 100, and the album hit #9, which was a massive deal in that era.

Fortunately, the case gets better:

1. Event: Unless I am missing a major ad campaign pushing Paid In Full or Crushin’, it appears that Tougher Than Leather was the first major event rap album in the MTV era – the “World Premiere Video”, the cardboard cutouts at the shopping-mall record stores, and most notably, the accompanying movie.

2. I also want to point out how similarly the careers of Bon Jovi and Run-D.M.C. parallel each other through their respective NJs:

a. Both groups had 2 albums before their commercial breakthrough, slowly building their fanbases with minor hits that remained in their live playlists up through their respective NJs

Bon Jovi:
Bon Jovi (1984) – featuring their first video to get MTV airplay (“Runaway”)
7800 Fahrenheit (1985)
Slippery When Wet (their Slippery When Wet, of course, 1986)
New Jersey (their - you're getting good at this - New Jersey, 1988)
Obligatory Greatest Hits Album (1991)
Keep the Faith (their Keep The Faith, 1992)
Crush (2000) – their first album with a Max Martin appearance
Bounce (2002) – their first album named after a commercial product

Run-D.M.C.:
Run-D.M.C. (1984) – first video to get MTV airplay (“Rock Box”)
King of Rock (1985)
Raising Hell (their Slippery When Wet, 1986)
Tougher Than Leather (their New Jersey, 1988)
Back From Hell (their Keep The Faith, 1990)
Obligatory Greatest Hits Album (1991)
Crown Royal (2001) – their first album named after a commercial product, and with a Fred Durst appearance

3. The “feeling”: By the time both bands released their 3rd singles from their respective New Jerseys, you could sense the change in which artists were going to be dominating the center of their respective genres. MTV’s “Hard 30” and “Yo!” exposed fans of both groups to heavier and poppier alternatives, while radio added more artists from both genres to their playlists, leaving less space for later singles from TTL & NJ’s album cycles. You could feel the ground shifting - while they were still successful, there was a strong sense that their time in the cultural center was coming to an end. Since it was happening to both bands at the same time, that just adds to the wildness.

Front-loaded albums are musical gerrymandering (Prefecture), Thursday, 8 July 2021 00:34 (two months ago) link

I mentioned the unkle album b/c it was criticized for assimilating everything that happened to be fashionable at that moment. xp

Deflatormouse, Thursday, 8 July 2021 00:52 (two months ago) link

ahhh sorry gotcha

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 July 2021 01:30 (two months ago) link

Has anyone in this thread ever mentioned Vitalogy?

KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 8 July 2021 02:10 (two months ago) link

I doubt anyone thought the album was hollow and augured a downturn.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 July 2021 02:11 (two months ago) link

Pearl Jam have no NJ

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 02:16 (two months ago) link

Maybe it's not a New Jersey by definition, but Riot Act sure is a fucking drag.

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Thursday, 8 July 2021 03:51 (two months ago) link

Tougher Than Leather definitely feels like a New Jersey especially being caught up in the passage of an era

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 8 July 2021 04:02 (two months ago) link

Good run dmc post

ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 8 July 2021 06:31 (two months ago) link

Bon Jovi: These Days (their These Days, kicks off w/a song called "Hey God")

Run-DMC: Down With The King (their These Days, all about God)

blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 8 July 2021 06:45 (two months ago) link

Good post, I'm buying it: Tougher Than Leather is a NJ. I'm also on board with Hello Nasty. Pearl Jam had a very different career arc where they had an absolute smash debut with almost overnight huge mainstream superstardom, and their whole subsequent career was a managed decline where they successfully cultivated their (slowly) diminishing/ageing flock of devoted fans.

Siegbran, Thursday, 8 July 2021 10:18 (two months ago) link

Prefecture's argument for Tougher Than Leather is excellent. Hats off for putting all that together.

Bobo Honk, real name, no gimmicks (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 8 July 2021 13:08 (two months ago) link

Rowdy! I thank you and the thread for giving me the vocabulary to explain this phenomenon.

Front-loaded albums are musical gerrymandering (Prefecture), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:25 (two months ago) link

I doubt anyone thought the album was hollow and augured a downturn.


I don’t know, as a college student at the time at a midwestern school (so absolutely the target audience) it was an undeniable event upon release, but ultimately had fewer hits/memorable songs than VS. and it had “Bugs”, which may be you all’s fave track but, again, not in the overwhelmingly white midwestern college milieu I was in. Although looking at the charts I see No code debuted at #1 and the fell off very quickly.

KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:31 (two months ago) link

It didn't debut at #55, though: it debuted near the bottom of the Billboard 200 on the basis of vinyl sales, then catapulted to #1 the following week, still the biggest leap in history.

"Better Man" and "Corduroy" were on album rock radio for yeeaaaars.

I'd feel better about No Code, but, again, the band deliberately experimented and deliberately wanted their fan base shorn. Not quite the same as a Fore! or Spellbound offering exactly the same as their predecessors.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:35 (two months ago) link

uh correction:

It didn't debut at #1, though: it debuted at #55 on the basis of vinyl sales

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:35 (two months ago) link

"Better Man" is a concert favorite still, as is "Corduroy" and "Nothingman". lots of fans (me included) adore that album.

the 'hits' weren't as big, but the main difference is that Pearl Jam sort of intentionally sought to go a less commercial direction after Ten, so the hits were always going to be smaller in stature. Vs kind of hedged its bets in that regard, but Vitalogy definitely moved them further into less commercial territory.

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:35 (two months ago) link

I don’t know, as a college student at the time at a midwestern school (so absolutely the target audience) it was an undeniable event upon release, but ultimately had fewer hits/memorable songs than VS. and it had “Bugs”, which may be you all’s fave track but, again, not in the overwhelmingly white midwestern college milieu I was in. Although looking at the charts I see No code debuted at #1 and the fell off very quickly.

I mean, I was also a college sophomore at the time in a midwest state school and even though people clowned on "Bugs" and "Stupid Mop", I can assure you that none of my PJ worshipping friends found that album hollow. It was inescapable and I would argue that it spawned more "classic" PJ anthems than even Vs.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:38 (two months ago) link

OTM. Their best album imo.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:39 (two months ago) link

For the Biggest Rock Band in the World to release "Bugs" on a hotly anticipated album is some Bowie-level shit.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:39 (two months ago) link

I can't remember if it was the week before or after the release of Vitalogy, but some enterprising pranksters chalked all over campus that PJ was playing at our basketball arena and that tickets would be on sale at 10:00 a.m. that Friday. I think the official count given was around 450 people in line before someone from the ticketing office finally got hipped to what happened and came out to disappoint the throngs. Miss those pre-internet gags sometimes.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:44 (two months ago) link

haha college kids always used to do shit like that.

the one at my school was "we are paying people $50 to do a in-person study with one of our psychologists" and direct us to the middle of the student union where obviously nobody would show up other than the people who pranked us to laugh at us.

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 14:55 (two months ago) link

Vitalogy is way too singular to be a New Jersey.

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:02 (two months ago) link

Ok if “hollowness” is meant to be more a creative bankruptcy rather than “a feeling on the part of the listener that the hitmaking days are over“ (which is more how I had it) then I will readily admit Vitalogy is not a New Jersey.

KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:04 (two months ago) link

"we are paying people $50 to do a in-person study with one of our psychologists"

I hope it was “Sexual Dysfunction Study” or something like that!

r u rolling pop 2021 (morrisp), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:07 (two months ago) link

I mean Pearl Jam stayed in pretty regular rotation on rock radio through Yield though, "Given to Fly" and "Wishlist" were all over the place. after that point is where even that started to dry up. and from Merkin Ball, "I Got Id" was a HUGE song on rock radio.

it's hard to argue a New Jersey when the band itself is intentionally trying to make themselves less accessible, which Bon Jovi was decidedly not trying to do.

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:08 (two months ago) link

I feel like maybe if Pearl Jam's trajectory was Vitalogy-Vs-Ten-No Code, then maybe you'd have an argument for No Code.

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:09 (two months ago) link

or _Spellbound_ offering _exactly_ the same as their predecessors.


The Paula Abdul album?

KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:10 (two months ago) link

hmm apparently I had a somewhat diff opinion in 2019:

Didn't Pearl Jam kind of intentionally seek a lower profile after VS by writing less commercial music? And attacking Ticketmaster so they couldn't tour and not building on momentum?

It's a NJ in that the mainstream definitely recoiled a bit from Vitalogy. people loved "Better Man", but despite being nominated for a Grammy, I didn't know anybody who gaf about "Spin the Black Circle" or "Tremor Christ" more than a month after release. Or anybody who is a mega PJ fan who cares about them now.

Buuut critics and the devoted PJ fans were definitely warmer to Vitalogy. Lots of setlist staples from that one. Some say it's their fav!

I guess it fits though, as far as hype goes, it definitely felt like the last PJ album mainstream rock fans anticipated, and you could feel the "who cares" vibe when MTV was trying to help promote No Code.

― master of nuggets (Neanderthal), Tuesday, December 10, 2019 7:00 PM bookmarkflaglink

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:10 (two months ago) link

Ok if “hollowness” is meant to be more a creative bankruptcy rather than “a feeling on the part of the listener that the hitmaking days are over“ (which is more how I had it) then I will readily admit Vitalogy is not a New Jersey.

I'm not going to argue with your personal response to the record, but "a feeling on the part of the listener that the hitmaking days are over" is so far removed from my experience with that record and how others I knew at the time responded. Between "Better Man", "Corduroy", "Immortality", "Not For You", "Spin the Black Circle" and "Nothingman" getting massive amounts of airplay on alt-rock radio, it really felt like a band at their peak, who could do no wrong. It was still true the following summer when I saw them at Soldier Field and Chicago was lousy with Q101 "Not For You" billboards.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:11 (two months ago) link

he Paula Abdul album?
― KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland)

pree-cise-ly

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:12 (two months ago) link

Spin the Black Circle actually *won* a Grammy

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:13 (two months ago) link

"I don't know what this means. I don't think it means anything."

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:13 (two months ago) link

I forgot about "Immortality", yeah, that one was big on modern rock radio at the time. my friend, who like me was just learning guitar, kept playing it when I'd play alongside him.

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:14 (two months ago) link

lol I forgot about "Black Circle" winning the Grammy... of all the songs on that album too...

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 8 July 2021 15:19 (two months ago) link

I'm also on board with Hello Nasty.

How???

ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Friday, 9 July 2021 08:10 (two months ago) link

Don't you tell him to stop!

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Friday, 9 July 2021 11:22 (two months ago) link

Hindsight is 20/20 and, in retrospect, Bang! Pow! Boom! was the Insane Clown Posse's very own New Jersey.

pomenitul, Friday, 9 July 2021 11:27 (two months ago) link

surprised Insane Clown Posse has never been mentioned in this thread tbh

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 9 July 2021 14:15 (two months ago) link

I hear their fans are called "Juggalos"

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 9 July 2021 14:20 (two months ago) link

Every huge artist has "Juggalos"

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 9 July 2021 14:26 (two months ago) link

a fanbase that is its own subculture but ultimately feels a bit hollow? i think i can see it

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 9 July 2021 14:30 (two months ago) link

not hollow - filled with faygo

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Friday, 9 July 2021 14:30 (two months ago) link

For real, they were a beloved underground unit, one of the horrorcore scene's best kept secrets, and when 'Miracles' dropped, a lot of people hailed their open embrace of pop rap as a quantum leap forward, but thinking back on it now, I think it's pretty obvious that the ensuing memes were a harbinger of the decline.

pomenitul, Friday, 9 July 2021 14:35 (two months ago) link

fucking New Jerseys, how do they work

not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Friday, 9 July 2021 14:40 (two months ago) link

Cat person? Is that a New Jersey?

KEEP HONKING -- I'M BOBOING (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 9 July 2021 15:10 (two months ago) link

I think there's a case to be made for Carrie Underwood's Carnival Ride as a New Jersey. It's hard to imagine, but her debut Some Hearts was the biggest selling album of 2006 in the U.S.--ten million copies sold worldwide and 8x Platinum in the Death-of-the-CD era. And it wasn't due just to American Idol visibility but the megahit "Before He Cheats." She seemed poised not to just be a country star but a crossover pop star.

So in 2008 there was a lot of industry anticipation for her follow-up. And it did...just fine. #1 debut. 4 million sold. A few #1 country hits that made a showing on the pop charts. But it was pretty a standard 2008 Nashville album aimed at country radio and felt pretty much like a retread of the debut, just not quite as good. A lot of pop fans peeled off and each of her successive albums sold about a million less than the last.

Only one of the singles is even in her Spotify top ten (All American Girl, #6) "Last Name" was a bad attempt to duplicate the badass vibe of "Before He Cheats."

But as a career move it was probably a success, as it cemented her as a country performer, not someone who would go pop (like Taylor) and she's still one of the biggest stars in the genre.

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Friday, 9 July 2021 15:59 (two months ago) link

two months pass...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrolli/2021/09/07/drakes-certified-lover-boy-smashes-spotify-records-as-it-heads-for-biggest-debut-of-2021/?sh=4733b23f508f

After listening to it a few times he may finally have reached his New Jersey !

AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 9 September 2021 12:08 (two weeks ago) link

Was going to say, I think I've incorrectly called the new Drake a New Jersey like 3 times in this thread, but if this isn't one then he's never going to have one

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 September 2021 12:58 (two weeks ago) link


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