Taking Sides: Avril Lavigne's "Sk8er Boi" vs. Any Ash Single of Your Choosing (e.g. "Kung Fu")

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nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 September 2002 15:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've never heard Ash but the AL song rules.

sundar subramanian, Friday, 20 September 2002 15:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

It does! It's terrific! But so was Ash's 1977, whatever the English are required to say about it.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 September 2002 15:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Something about AL's song title makes me want to blow up buildings.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 September 2002 15:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oops one last question-thingie: please consider "Girl from Mars" as the comparative Ash single.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 September 2002 15:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ash can credibly rock. Avril Lavigne couldn't grasp the concept of rock if her little shrill, squirelly life depended on it.

"Goldfinger" by Ash of 1977 singularly trounces anything Avril has done or *WILL EVER* do.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 September 2002 16:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

we've only heard "complicated" over here so far (for most of, I suppose there are some people who have heard sk8er boi). I like complicated.

jel -- (jel), Friday, 20 September 2002 16:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ah, Alex. Sometimes I think you & Ned should form a splinter board / cabal called EVERYTHING I LIKE IS INDISPUTABLE GODHEAD, AND EVERYTHING I DON'T LIKE IS REPREHENSIBLE VOMIT. Something like that.

I want to like "Sk8er Boi", and the music's fine & all, but I have severe problems w/ her little story (about the boi, and the super pretty / popular uptown girl that disses him, and good ol' hardcore Avril sweeping in and rockin' with the boi, who's now so famous, yeah, totally).

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 20 September 2002 16:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Me? Remember, I R subjectivist. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 September 2002 16:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

i want to pair her against...hmm, 'juxtaopsed with u'...that's fair...

mike (ro)bott, Friday, 20 September 2002 17:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

I agree, David, there is something disturbingly catty about the "haha don't you feel like an idiot now that I'm shagging the cool boy you passed on" (only in the mind of a teenager would the third party really care very much about this at all). But some days it seems sort of deliciously spiteful, because there's something entertaining about people launching into semi-psychotic ner-ner-ner screeds when really nobody else cares.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 September 2002 17:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Avril Lavinge really should be set on with hunting dogs.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 20 September 2002 17:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, what Triscuit said. I mean, if I were 10-15 years younger, I'd be all over this song like stink on dogbutt, simply because of the irrational come-uppance of it all (but it's not like the kewl girl lost out on anything because CLEARLY she wasn't meant to be w/ him because of their standings in society, and I doubt she's really upset over it, Avril) (and, Christ, this sort of nyeah-nyeah nonsense is why outcasts cannot actually BEAT the status quo - they either A) get swallowed up by the quo or B) buck the quo and make a big stink of beating the system when the quo couldn't give two phbbts).

I was thinking of this song more as a "stick to your guns / hip to be square" type of polemic, though, like "The Middle", or maybe "Bastards of Young".

David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 20 September 2002 18:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ned: Yes. We were asking for your subjective opinion.

I haven't heard "Sk8ter Boi" yet, but Ash rage.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 20 September 2002 22:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

Amazing.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 September 2002 22:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ash are rubbish so I can well imagine this song is better. The title is so-bad-its-good, in a non-ironic fashion.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 20 September 2002 22:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

From California it's pretty easily viewable as metaironic, believe me.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 September 2002 22:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

really really hated AL's tune first time round, but now it's scarily bearable...ash haven't been good since, uh, 1977, sadly.

Charlie (Charlie), Saturday, 21 September 2002 05:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

fuck that, whatever you think of Ash they're definitely better than Avril Levigne...altho they really should think about retiring now

blueski, Saturday, 21 September 2002 08:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

As ever Dom is a beacon of cynicism in a world gone mad with the fetishization of the twee.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 21 September 2002 09:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

As much as i cna hate Avril Lavigne, i like this shit, especially for the fun factor of having Boi in its title

vic (vicc13), Saturday, 21 September 2002 10:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

What Ronan said.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 21 September 2002 10:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't believe Ash have a greatest hits cd out already.

Andrew L (Andrew L), Saturday, 21 September 2002 10:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't actually compare the two because they're both so brain fryingly fucking awful. Ash are like some horrible fluke success story where those skate shoed unfunny dorks from school got a record deal and like are living the dream. And Avril Lavigne feels like the perfect artist to support Limp Bizkit, random loser rage for the boyz, and sensitive "my boyfriend acts different with his mates" for the girlz.

Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 21 September 2002 12:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't believe you are having a serious conversation about AL????

dsico (dsico), Saturday, 21 September 2002 12:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

i cant believe you're doing a bootleg of AL ;)

blueski, Saturday, 21 September 2002 13:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

I was waiting for someone to say that.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 21 September 2002 13:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

I thought everyone here would have heard "Sk8er Boi" already. Tom, it really does sound like an Ash tune. Only better, and with some faux stop-and-go metal transitions. But it's a chorus melody Tim Wheeler would cream over.

nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 21 September 2002 15:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Sk8er Boi" sounds practically INDISTINGUISHABLE from the chorus of "Grey Cell Green" by Ned's Atomic Dustbin

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 21 September 2002 18:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

i really can;t like AL at all. I just cant. it won't happen.

Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Saturday, 21 September 2002 19:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Complicated" sounds like everything a sane person would hate about "alternative" culture being assfucked by everything a sane person would hate about "mainstream" culture.

No, wait, that's "Why I Go To School" by Busted. AL's just Meredith Brookes' foetus.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 21 September 2002 19:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

That Busted song sounds grebt!

Tom (Groke), Saturday, 21 September 2002 19:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

does grebt mean shite? i hope so...its nearly as bad as that 'Its Just Porn Mum' song...and thats the 12 year old in me talking too

blueski, Saturday, 21 September 2002 19:36 (twenty-one years ago) link

After reading about it on Doms blog i only hope that they arent as awful as the band made up of 13 yo that got big here with some song about the mathematic of love. What the fuck is up with these bands? Twee-Punk?

vic (vicc13), Saturday, 21 September 2002 19:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

That'd be Dom's blog you can find here: http://www.iheldherinmyarms.blogspot.com.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 21 September 2002 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

Busted are terrifying, but I don't hate them, as the chorus is quite catchy really.

jel -- (jel), Saturday, 21 September 2002 21:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

catchy as ebola

blueski, Saturday, 21 September 2002 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

catchy as cebola

vic (vicc13), Saturday, 21 September 2002 21:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

dom it seems like anything which could be conceived of as an I quote 'assfuck' which is on mainstream radio is well uh hey

Josh (Josh), Saturday, 21 September 2002 22:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's probably important to note that assfucking can be in the context of a loving relationship assfucking can be enjoyable to both parties.

thom west (thom w), Sunday, 22 September 2002 00:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

uhm, that should be: "It's probably important to note that in the context of a loving relationship assfucking can be enjoyable to both parties. "

alternative post: "seeing how all the indie kids are theoretically bisexual anyway i fail to see how the assfucking poses a problem"

thom west (thom w), Sunday, 22 September 2002 00:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

we've only had "complicated" here too. i hate avril and i hate ash. they have something in common: both feature female musicians who want to be one of the boys, this is somehow supposed to mean they are more credible than say for example britney spears. but at least britney's music is good (though her image is every bit as offensive as the aforementioned).

di smith (lucylurex), Sunday, 22 September 2002 03:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

I have "punk boy" on a tape and it's wonderful so I've yet to see why all the ash hate. maybe the weezer parallels are part of it?

Josh (Josh), Sunday, 22 September 2002 03:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

I hate Ash because Tim Wheeler is the only man still alive that thinks wearing a leather jacket makes him look cool.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 22 September 2002 06:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

No, but seriously folks...

Why the Ash hatred... The way that they've coasted through on a career with the sum total of their achievements being two half decent choruses, the way that their brand of tedious power pop managed to win them a sodding Ivor Novello award, the punchability of all their members, the truly appalling "Jesus Says", and Charlotte Hatherley's legs.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 22 September 2002 07:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh complicated is so bad and the video is so bad! It cracks me up everytime I see it. I hope Sk8er Boi is just as terrible.

Elisabeth (Elisabeth), Sunday, 22 September 2002 09:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

ivor novello classic or dud!!

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 22 September 2002 09:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

so one grate chorus (punk boy) and two half decent ones? what are they, pray tell?

Josh (Josh), Sunday, 22 September 2002 13:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Oh Yeah" and "Burn Baby Burn". At least they're easy to dance to.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 22 September 2002 15:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

also dom (I am triangulating) what do you think of weezer?

Josh (Josh), Sunday, 22 September 2002 16:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Heh. The Weezer/Ash thing is a misnomer, to be honest. Tim Wheeler loves Weezer (his second favourite band behind Ween, if I recall as much), but there's no similarity in sounds. You could say that Ash fulfil the same roll over here that Weezer do in the States, but that's as far as you can go.

I like Weezer. Scratch that. I like pop Weezer, something like "Hash Pipe", "Buddy Holly", "Undone". I cannot sit through a Weezer album at all. If Rivers had a bubblegum heart, they'd be one of the best bands ever. As it stands, they're just an emo band that get lucky on a few occasions.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 22 September 2002 16:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like her bootleg Annie Hall tie.

JM, Monday, 23 September 2002 03:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ash's "one great chorus" (Punkboy) is actually one of Helen Love's many great choruses.

Avril has pretty eyes. Ash don't.

Wyndham Earl, Monday, 23 September 2002 04:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

I can't believe Ash have a greatest hits cd out already

they've been together 10 years. and it's not a greatest hits anyway, it's a warts-and-all singles compilation.

Ash roX0r totally. They're the best group of their kind, and I luv 'em.

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 23 September 2002 05:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

If I can figure out why I hate Sk8er Boi and love the Josie and the Pussycats soundtrack, I wil have found a crack in the fabric of reality which I can jimmy open to reveal a Secret of the Universe.

Ash all the way is the answer.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 23 September 2002 13:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't really like the song because of the lyrics.

sundar subramanian, Monday, 23 September 2002 18:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

one month passes...
I luv Sk8er Boi, lyrics and all. u just dont like it 'coz u dont understand it

Katypillar Ardvark, Friday, 25 October 2002 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

I was actually saying that I liked the song but that lyrics weren't a main reason why I did.

sundar subramanian, Friday, 25 October 2002 19:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Kung Fu is the greatest song of all time, suckas.

Ally, Saturday, 26 October 2002 02:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, Curtis Mayfield rules.

Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 26 October 2002 11:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

That wasn't funny.

Ally (mlescaut), Sunday, 27 October 2002 23:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

one month passes...
God I hate Avril so much. What's with all these little pre-teen kids running around singing sk8er boi (by the way can Avril not spell)? Before Avril sold out they were snubbing anyone who didn't wear the adidas and nike uniform and now suddenly they've changed their attitude because of one dumbass song.

Speaking of sk8er boi, it sucks. All that song is is a sad little untrue story which doesnt even make sense at the end. It's basically saying Avril is a man and is in love with herself (this could be true, I dont know). It makes he want to hurl.

Avril is POP not PUNK. Listen to some real punk like NOFX or Lit before you go around saying she is.

I hate her hyperactive personality. You don't have to be the center of attention ALL OF THE GODDAMN TIME. It's just plain annoying.

And Avril cannot sing live. I watched some awards ceromony (by the way it blew) and she performed. I actually felt embarresed for her. She should get some singing lessons, or, better still, go back to Canada and get off our television screens and take her pathetic little boy-band followers with her. Speaking of them they're probably only with her for the money.

Her best skateboarding trick is an ollie? You do not skate for nine years and your best trick is a n ollie. It just does not happen. I learnt to do and ollie in one night. One night, nine years. You do the math.

In conclusion, Avril Lavigne is nothing but some kid a record manager pulled off the street. They taught her to ollie, got her some cool clothes and told her to say she was a punk at every available oppertunity. They get money, so does she. Everyone's happy. Apart from the people that have to listen to her crappy pop music but who gives a shit about us?

By the way Inme rock

Lizzie The InMe Lover, Wednesday, 4 December 2002 20:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

NOFX aren't punk, Deaf Leopord are.

Ferg (Ferg), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 21:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

I only just heard Sk8ter the other day and now I think my initial impression of Avril might've been wrong. True, she can't really sing, can't really play and can't really write songs but this rocks.

Whether you like Ash depends on whether you believe a band that can't really sing, can't really play and can't really write songs can rock. If so, Ash are surely the best rock singles band of the last decade.

B.Rad (Brad), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 22:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

I get so weary of "band x have never made any records, in fact they don't exist"


"therefore, CLASSIC"


Nothing personal Brad!


Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 22:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

Listen to some real punk like NOFX or Lit

Lit?????

Speaking of sk8er boi, it sucks. All that song is is a sad little untrue story which doesnt even make sense at the end. It's basically saying Avril is a man and is in love with herself (this could be true, I dont know).

This is possibly the best record review I've ever read (factual inaccuracies aside).

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 4 December 2002 22:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

I WISH IT WASN'T FACTUALLY INACCURATE! That'd be the greatest song ever.

Ally (mlescaut), Thursday, 5 December 2002 03:24 (twenty-one years ago) link

one year passes...
Just for the record Avril, Ash actually play their instruments. Did anyone here notice that in the "Complicated" video, she has this brand new guitar, strums it like..3 times and then in the end, smashes it into smithereens?! What's the point in that?!?!

lu, Monday, 16 August 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link

If you have to ask...

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Sorry, Lu, Avril stopped posting here back in 02. There was this whole NU-ILX turnover, and she was all like "I'm Avril, I'm different, you can kiss my butt, stomp stomp SLAM."

nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:18 (nineteen years ago) link

(2004 Daniel_Rf takes no responsibility for 2002 Daniel_Rf's patent unfunnyness w/r/t that Ally exchange and obvious instance of missing-the-point w/r/t that Ned exchange.)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 16 August 2004 17:32 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think not playing their instruments is really much of a criticism. I'm sure a lot of good music has been made by people with computer mice, or trackballs or whatever.

yay randome g00l3rz, anyway.

In retrospect, I still like "sk8er boi" lots, though I think "complicated" was better really. I haven't heard anything else she's recorded. Ash were OK, I suppose.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 16 August 2004 18:21 (nineteen years ago) link


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