What Does ILM Think of Daniel Lanois?

Forgot one, guitarist Mason Ruffner: https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/the-real-dylan-revealed-tell-tale-signs-special-part-11-37874/

Pretty short, but it's another good eyewitness POV on how those sessions rolled. Dylan even paid him a generous compliment:

One thing that sticks with me, I kind of got a wow-factor from Bob this one time. I played this little guitar solo on the end of this song “Disease Of Conceit”, he kind of gave me the wow-factor with that. He wrote me a letter after the session, saying that he’d played that recording for Eric Clapton, and Clapton was wondering if it was Mark Knopfler playing. I guess he was feeding me a compliment – I wasn’t sure – but I know he liked that.

It's a beautiful guitar part, but it's also too bad it's a crap song, lyrically speaking - should've been a B-side at best.

I think if Clapton thinks you're Knoplfer, yeah, that's a compliment.

Howard and Burn are both Lanois acolytes, iirc.

Yup, they worked on a lot of his stuff. Last I heard Howard was fighting cancer and I think there was even a fundraiser to help pay the bills, but I think he's bounced back.

Howard was also on Sound Opinions before he got sick and told a key story to Dylan - if you're working with him, it's easy to have a normal conversation like we're having right now, but as soon as, say, a guest or an outsider drops by, Dylan suddenly turns on the weird Dylan act. He uses Billy Bob Thornton as an example, because he did pay a visit just to see Dylan - Thornton tried to shake his hand and Dylan shook his pinky. It reminds me of stories I hear about Lou Reed, but it's like there's a public persona he puts on, partly to shield himself, but when it's just him and someone he knows, he relaxes and just acts like a regular guy.

The whole thing about dropping in on somebody working---I'd never do that, unless I was working too (like an in-person interview, ugh), *and* of course if I had an appointment, but even then it would feel weird, and what if things weren't going well when I got there, or were just too intense for shifting gears/distractions---ughhhh And if it's Famous Person having lunch etc., no way gonna go over there and "Hey Man" fuck that

If it's "I'm a famous Billy Bob too, and a fan I am!" still ng

(Of course bothering Dylan would have anecdotal/interview value.}

Since were talking Lanois and Dylan, here’s another excuse to share the version of “With God On Our Side” he produced for the Nevilles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_6qdk8zAE

The story he told Maron about using the Roland TR-808 drum machine to do the demos for Oh Mercy was awesome. Do any of those exist?

I prefer YM to TOOM.

Me too. Yellow Moon also has that beautiful version of "A Change is Gonna Come" (with Eno on backing vox).

Fun fact: "The Maker" (probably the best know Lanois solo song?) is built around a leftover track from the "Yellow Moon" sessions.

Speaking of Time Out of Mind, I just checked out the Lanois production discography, and it's been a super weird run since that Dylan album, as if he was specifically trying to get out of his comfort zone. The first odd credit is actually Luscious Jackson, which he worked on right before Time Out of Mind, but since then it's been odd. A lot of work for his band mates and buddies that no one else cares about, like Rocco Deluca and Mother Superior/Jim Wilson. I've seen him do some odd shows here, like one backed by half of Tortoise (bad fit) and his group Black Dub (Lanois on guitar, Brian Blade on drums, and Daryl Johnson on bass, plus Trixie Whitley), which is awesome on paper but was dull in practice.

Yeah, I mention upthread that in the Here Is What Is documentary, Lanois has this kind of staged conversation with Brian Blade for the cameras where he explains how he wants Blad to play over Willie Green's drum track for "The Maker" again for a new version of "Where Will I Be?" Sort of a dubious interaction but prolly my favorite thing by him.

Fake edit -- here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCnBIdOR8_U

I could listen to Brian Blade play drums all day.

For that matter, I love Lanois's guitar playing (and he usually uses the same guitar, pickups and amp as Neil Young, I think: old Goldtop with Firebird and P90 pickups in it through a Fender Bassman). I got to see him and Blade as a duo a few times, just incredible.

Blade's "Nobel Peace Prize! NO-BEL PEACE PRIZE!" thing is such prototypical inscrutable weird jazz dude humor.

Since Time Out of Mind, the only Lanois albums I'm really familiar with are Teatro, All That You Can't Leave Behind, No Line on the Horizon and Le Noise. Teatro is okay, I actually like ATYCLB and most of NLotH (though it has some really awful shit on it), and Le Noise is probably my favorite Neil Young album post-'90s though the competition there isn't great.

Agree with most of that, particularly NLOTH which has two of my favorite U2 songs. I wasn’t in love with Teatro, but Le Noise is a great sounding record. “Hitchhiker” lives up to the legend, and “Someone’s Gonna Rescue You” is classic Neil.

Goodbye to Language is soooooooo good

"Le Noise" is great, a perfect use of Lanois. "No Line ..." ... I've tried, and I mostly *like* U2, but whenever I go back to it there's just not much I get out of it. I can practically hear the band losing the courage of its convictions in real time, which I suppose makes sense, given the album was supposed to be weird and adventurous but the band wimped out. I remember being bummed out, because I think it's the first U2 album where Eno and Lanois share a lot writing credits - or get credit - but it just fails to live up to its potential.

All of Lanois' solo albums are pretty good to great, iirc. He's a great singer/songwriter, but also super when it's just him and a lap steel.

Down the rabbit hole, it's Lanois interviewed by Pharrell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihcPhJF3wyg

And here he is toying with a Lexington Prime Time delay processor in a band setting, very dub-minded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I31pLAZQf0c

"No Line ..." ... I've tried, and I mostly *like* U2, but whenever I go back to it there's just not much I get out of it. I can practically hear the band losing the courage of its convictions in real time, which I suppose makes sense, given the album was supposed to be weird and adventurous but the band wimped out. I remember being bummed out, because I think it's the first U2 album where Eno and Lanois share a lot writing credits - or get credit - but it just fails to live up to its potential.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wasn't expecting anything miraculous, but I did like the idea of the band taking some real chances again. When I first played it, I thought "hey, this may be a good album," but then it's like the band went into a panic and we get "I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight" wedged in there, followed by "Get On Your Boots" (not just a shitty single, they made it the LEAD single for crissakes) and "Stand Up Comedy" which were too awful for the album to make a full recovery. A shame because the rest is good.

A bit later, I noticed some U2 fans re-editing the album, slicing out "I'll Go Crazy," "Get On Your Boots" and "Stand Up Comedy," slotting in "Winter" (the version from the Linear DVD which apparently WAS intended for the album but cut at the last minute) and opening with the brief "Soon" which had ended up as a B-side. Someone uploaded it to Soundcloud somewhere and IMHO it's a big improvement - a solid, commendable album from start-to-finish. I'd probably throw in "Every Breaking Wave" too if the original version ever leaks out. Disappointing that it was ultimately compromised, but I think the material is there for what would have been their last good album.

I think the band was somewhat chastened by the failed Moroccan sessions and likely facing some pressure from the label. It’s a shame because I agree the good material on that record is probably some of their best work with Eno and Lanois.

That Pharrell interview is great, tho the naked lady serving them water is 👀.

Yeah, I assume that was Pharrell trying to be cute, since it happens when he's talking about the important of spontaneity in the studio.

With "No Line ...", I think it really *was* the band chickening out. First it followed the aborted sessions with Rick Rubin. Then the band got cold feet about being too experimental. There are some telling quotes in the wiki (which actually pull-quotes an interview with Eno I did!):

The band scaled back these experimental pursuits, however; Mullen noted: "at a certain stage, reality hits, and you go, 'What are we gonna do with this stuff?' Are we going to release this sort of meandering experimentation, or are we gonna knock some songs out of this?"

Then later, after the album failed to make much of an impression:

The Edge concurred, admitting that the group erred by "starting out experimental and then trying to bring it into something that was more accessible". He added, "I think probably we should have said, 'It's an experimental work. That's what it is.' "Mullen refers to the album as "No Craic on the Horizon" and said, "It was pretty fucking miserable. It turns out that we're not as good as we thought we were and things got in the way." He attributed the release of "Get On Your Boots" as the album's lead single as "the beginning of the end," as the album would not recover from the song's negative reception.

Hah, nice! And I just learned a new word today: craic.

U2 seemed to be okay with low-key releases in the past (Zooropa being a particular favorite), but beginning with Pop, they've gotten really panicky, and I think this was BEFORE Pop came out too, not after - to my understanding, they had the world tour booked and rushed work on it (particularly the lead single, "Discothèque") so they could release it in time for marketing to build the momentum needed for a big summer single. Since then, everything's been so calculated to the point where U2 became more of a corporation than a band. As much as I liked ATYCLB, it was more of a case where sound artistic intent fortunately lined up with their long-term business strategy, which had nothing to do with breaking ground and all about rebuilding their commercial fortunes. It's a far cry from a band that hired Eno against the initial objections of label head Chris Blackwell.

(Should clarify, Pop overall was an attempt to try something new, but it still had the first real troubling sign of business goals compromising their work.)

Damn, who's the drummer on that KEXP session??

Blade.

As for U2 and NLOTH, don’t discount the acrimony over the Passengers project either. It is kind of telling they haven’t worked with Eno or Lanois since this one.

He's a great singer/songwriter, but also super when it's just him and a lap steel.

No, that's not Blade (in the last video that Josh posted)

Touring commitments compromised Pop from the start.

Also, the band saved their worst, most conventional songs rejected from AB andZooropa ("Wake Up Dead Man") for Pop.

Yeah, don't know who that drummer is, but it's not Blade.

With U2, I seem to recall a claim their tours didn't really generate huge profits until after Pop, and for as long as they've been rock stars, I don't think it's been until the All That You Can't Leave Behind album and beyond that their tours have really started raking in the big bucks. Clearly their accountants took a lay of the land and the band took whatever advice they got to heart.

Ok the drummer is Kyle Crane, whose claim to fame is being the drum double in Whiplash (ie any time it cuts to the hands and actually looks like the hands of a good drummer)

My bad, I was thinking of his Tiny Desk concert.

(Willie Nelson sounds like a guest on his own Teatro)

heh this might be my second favorite Willie record since his Outlaw heyday came to a close (Spirit is better)
but tbf he's released a LOT in the last 40 years and I've heard very few.

(Willie Nelson sounds like a guest on his own Teatro)

I didn't see this (I need to start reading thread starters). LMAO. This sounds like a common complaint with Lanois albums - as much as I like Emmylou Harris's Wrecking Ball, it could've been credited as a Daniel Lanois album with guest vocalist Emmylou Harris, and I wouldn't have questioned it. With Willie, he's made a ton of albums loaded with guest stars and a ton that's basically shared with someone else, so Teatro kind of fits into that tradition except this time he's sharing top-billing with a producer rather than a performer.

Willie's output since the whole IRS thing has been impressive as hell. Right after he settled his tax problems, he recorded one last album for Columbia before they dropped him, and on of that he turned 60, yet he's been ridiculously prolific. I have a real soft spot for that last Columbia album, Across the Borderline. Even if it seems fairly calculated, who cares? He still hits every target. Spirit is easily my favorite, hands down his greatest album since his '70s classics. Even his last few albums have been consistently good too. Teatro is a commendable album, and Lanois's production certainly distinguishes it, but it's not one of my favorites from either Willie or Lanois.

*on top of that he turned 60

yeah i can't say i've knowingly heard Across the Borderline but it looks like it could be interesting.

I gave a listen to Band of Brother(i think that's what it's called?) a while back, which as i understand it all new self-penned compositions, maybe his first like that this century? it was pleasant enough but I can't remember much sticking with me

I think Teatro is an album that on paper seems like it would be a good fit for Lanois, but really isn't. Emmylou I disagree with, though. She specifically approached it as a reinvention of sorts, and all of her solo albums since then have hewed closer to it than to any of her formative works, Lanois or no. Plus, I think the setting and band suits her super well, from song selection to sonics. I don't think she ever sounds less than the star and central focus. Even if it often feels collaborative, I also consider it a perfect pairing of performer and producer. A case in point could be "Where Will I Be," which is a beautiful (Lanois) song sung perfectly by Emmy, vs. "The Maker," another beautiful Lanois song, which is not done justice by Willie on his record.

I did get to see Willie and Lanois doing stuff from that album at Farm Aid in 1998 though! Which also featured the Neil Young/Phish collaboration no one ever asked for. Oh, and a good Brian Wilson performance, iirc!

I love Teatro. Agree Spirit is excellent but don’t hear a thing in Teatro worth complaining about. Willie’s playing is so loose, the roomy sound of the drums is perfect.

I checked Teatro out of the library two weeks ago and gave up after a few plays.

Agree with the praise for Spirit.

but I dig a few Willie shlock-a-rama albums from the mid '80s, so ymmmv

Didn’t know Lanois was there with Nelson at Farm Aid 1998. I was there too!

Yeah, I think he had the two Cuban drummers from the album with him, too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jh5_4o0TCs

There was a sense with Teatro—what with moderately esoteric song choices, the Wim Wenders documentary, and the ramshackle recording setting—that Lanois and Willie were both kind of treading water a bit. It’s fine – but as Josh alludes to, there’s nothing about his version of “The Maker” that the original doesn’t do better. Which is saying something because Willie is arguably one of the dozen or so best singers of the 20th century.

I’ve always had mixed feelings about Wrecking Ball no matter how much I try. There are a ton of surface pleasures for me with this record, the material with Neil Young, Larry Mullen on drums. “Goin’ Back to Harlan” is pretty much perfection and “Sweet Old World” is almost as good. But it has this air of pretension that kind of leaves me cold and it marks the beginning of Emmylou’s transformation from transcendent country harmonist to creaky alt country emoter.

It's heretical, I guess, but when Harris sings solo she bores me; she's a genius on backup.

There's a track Lanois did on Syd Straw's debut album that epitomizes a producer applying their signature sound in the most rote, unimaginative way possible (not that the song would have been very notable with a better approach).

I think the last track, "Golden Dreams," is the only one actually produced by Lanois. For Eno completists like me, it features, well, Eno. Incredible number of amazing musicians on that album, though. Everyone from Pino Palladino and Jim Keltner to Marc Ribot and Michael Stipe. Probably leftover connections and goodwill from her Golden Palominos experience.

A good example of what a different producer can do is that first Ron Sexsmith album, which is mostly produced by Froom but which features one song twice, the second time produced by Lanois. Here's the Froom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsEZPvipd2U

And here's the Lanois:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxxulc82lN4

Froom was a better match, at least imo.

The first Chris Whitley album (produced by Malcolm Burn at Lanois's studio) is a good example of Lanois, once-removed. Similarly, maybe, is "Fuse" by Joe Henry, which sounds super cool and was produced by T Bone Burnett but I think mixed by Lanois. (Incidentally, Lanois used to be managed by Melanie Ciccone, Henry's wife and Madonna's sister.)

I looked at the credits on the Syd Straw album, which I have, but never realized the Lanois/Eno involvement. They produced that last track together, he was involved in the production of another, and mixed a third.

"Golden Dreams" is perfectly wonderful. Nothing rote about it.

This is an amusing comparison because Froom is absolutely another producer who increasingly brought a bag of tricks to most of the artists he produced. And usually that bag was carrying a trash can lid and a Chamberlain.

I actually thought of "There's a Rhythm" as another example of Lanois-by-numbers when I made my post.

Honestly, I find the whole Syd Straw album overly fussy except for "Future Forties".

I think the Syd Straw album is kind of fussy and underdeveloped at the same time, but it's been a while. The Sexsmith, I agree that is *totally* Lanois by numbers. I posted it because I think Ron made the right choice by going with the trashcan lid guy.

It's funny, one of the most famous Lanois (solo) productions is "So," but that album lacks many if not most of the characteristics that he's famous for. As opposed to "Us," which is a lot more airy and muddy.

Got distracted just now and finally followed up on this vague credit he gets for working on the "Last of the Mohicans" soundtrack. I never realized even that was subject to Michael Mann's whims.

Director Michael Mann initially asked Trevor Jones to provide an electronic score for the film, but late in production, it was decided an orchestral score would be more appropriate for this historic epic. Jones hurried to re-fashion the score for orchestra in the limited time left, while the constant re-cutting of the film meant music cues sometimes had to be rewritten several times to keep up with the new timings. Finally, with the release date looming, composer Randy Edelman was called in to score some minor scenes which Jones did not have time to do. Jones and Edelman received co-credit on the film (thus making the score ineligible for Oscar consideration). The main theme of the movie is "Promontory", an orchestration of the tune "The Gael" by Scottish singer-songwriter Dougie MacLean from his 1990 album The Search. The score was re-recorded and re-released in 2000 to address some perceived problems with its original incarnation. The tracks were reordered into their onscreen chronology (the original album separated the Jones material from that composed by Edelman), some additional cues were added, and Clannad's "I Will Find You" was no longer included.

Anyway, that was a secondary distraction, because there is the matter of Lanois. It looks like he gets writing credit for this pretty soundtrack gem, which originated as an as a Lanois track called "Orchestral Mohicans":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cM1aVESfYk

I forgot he also produced the soundtrack to Red Dead Redemption 2, including songs with Willie, D'Angelo and this sentimental ballad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Rhe5BrYpI

Interesting process talk here:

How different was working on Red Dead from working on, say, a movie soundtrack?

The person playing the game is directing the character, either to walk into a saloon or walk down by the riverbed, let’s say—and depending on the choice you make, you’ll hear a certain part of a given song. We call that a stem. So I have to mix the melodic stem separately from the rest of the song. It makes me put all my mixing energy into those few components at that moment. When I listened back to these stems—these little sub-mixes—they really had a lot of vibe to them, because I was devoting all of my skills to one small aspect of a bigger production. Then we’d move on to the bassline, and then the drums and percussion. So maybe there’d be six or seven choices gotten to by moving the character in the game. And then at some point all those sounds come together.

I thought that was fascinating. It reminded me a little bit of this multiple-speaker thing that I had going with Eno for a while. We’d have maybe a dozen different speakers spread all over the studio, or around the house, and we’d send different sounds through different speakers. I thought that was just fabulous, because you were walking through a forest of sounds that changed largely by distance. Moving into this mixing for the game touched on that nerve—something that I had already fallen in love with a long time ago.

Goodbye to Language is soooooooo good

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, January 22, 2021 9:27 PM (three days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Speaking of D'Angelo, I bet Lanois was knocked on his butt when he heard "Voodoo."