Producers, Recording Engineers and Studio Wizards: POLL RESULTS

yeah well I dunno what I could've done to get more ballots in - I tried to keep the nominations thread on the front page for a couple weeks. in the end we got 39 (including mine) which is slightly above average for polls

honestly don't know why you wouldn't consider Clinton a producer. he was behind the mixing desk on a lot of records.

yeah 40ish is a great total, i duno if the result would have looked much different if there were 80 voters

xp Among many, many other things, it was Clinton who transformed "Maggot Brain" from a guitar solo into a piece for solo guitar.

Any comments on Thom Bell's placement versus Gamble and Huff's non-placement?

Gamble & Huff got a couple votes, they were just outside the top 50

Well, again -- this isn't a criticism of you, Shakey. More a frustration and maybe a realization that there are fewer producers I really admire than I thought.

I think part of it is that I tend to subscribe to the producer-as-auteur theory -- folks with unique visions (and in that sense, Clinton would have counted obviously). But even there, I felt like great auteurs need to have registered some kind of larger, meaningful impact -- so a guy like Mutt Lange (whose music I largely detest) would at least qualify while someone like Manfred Eicher--who pioneered a gorgeous sound at ECM--wouldn't because I'm not really convinced changing the face of European jazz is all that big of a deal.

There's also a matter of intent. Despite worshipping his stuff w Miles, I didn't even vote for Teo Macero bc even tho he did some wild things with fx and tapes on those late-60s/70s records (panning switchboxes, putting melodies over different backing tracks, etc.), I've never been totally convinced he knew what he was doing with those things and that his far more important impact was providing shape and form to those pieces (forget "In a Silent Way"'s A-B-A edit; check Bob Belden's notes on the assembly of "Pharaoh's Dance" for evidence of how he would seamlessly loop two improvised bars in the middle of a 19 minute piece to add tension -- one or two got left off on the box set by accident). In retrospect, I probably should have voted for him -- but it might have been close. Fun fact: according to Wikipedia, Teo produced "Addicted to Love" by Robert Palmer!

Also, I've never felt that being associated with a lot of good records in and of itself makes a great producer. That's why, for me, Trevor Horn or Martin Hannett belong very high in this poll where, say, a Rudy Van Gelder or Chris Thomas might not, despite overseeing more great records.

Bottom line: most of these guys were just very capable craftsmen -- and generally you don't buy records because for their capable craftsmanship. You don't say, "Holy shit, this was produced by CHRIS FUCKING THOMAS. Honey, empty out your wallet -- I simply MUST have it." Unless, say, you're an engineer.

In that sense maybe I was always going to be frustrated by this poll.

Anyway, apologies for the screed. Carry on.

Thanks, SMC. My confused ballot:

1. David Briggs (Neil Young) – 40
2. Tom Wilson (Velvets, Dylan, Simon & Garfunkel, Mothers of Invention, Nico) – 36
3. George Martin (Beatles) – 33
4. Thom Bell (Spinners, Delfonics, Stylistics) – 30
5. Phil Spector (various) – 27
6. Roger Moutenot (Yo La Tengo) – 25
7. Gary Katz (Steely Dan) – 24
8. Burt Bacharach & Hal David (Dionne Warwick, B.J. Thomas) – 23
9. George Shadow Morton (Shangri-Las, New York Dolls) – 22
10. Todd Rundgren (Todd Rundgren, New York Dolls) – 21
11. Brian Wilson (Beach Boys, Spring) – 20
12. Al Schmitt (Jefferson Airplane, Neil Young, Jackson Browne) – 19
13. Rod Stewart (Rod Stewart, Faces) – 18
14. Joe Boyd (Incredible String Band, Fairport Convention, R.E.M.) – 17
15. Sly Stone (Sly & the Family Stone, Great Society, Beau Brummels) – 16
16. Mike Thorne (Wire) – 15
17. Dr. Dre (Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, 50 Cent) – 14
18. Norman Petty (Buddy Holly) – 13
19. Timbaland (Missy Elliott, Aaliyah, Timbaland & Magoo) – 12
20. Stephen Hague (Pet Shop Boys, New Order) – 11

I guess I'm one of the people who artificially propped up the likes of David Briggs and Gary Katz. I have no idea what either one ever contributed to the art of record production, if anything; I just happen to love Neil Young and Steely Dan. Gamble & Huff slipped my mind--I would have voted for them somewhere in there.

i needed sleep so had to skip out on the final rundown.

best man got the top spot.

my ballot

1. David Axelrod
2. Adrian Sherwood
3. Tony Visconti
4. Trevor Horn
5. Phil Spector
6. Brian Eno
7. Teo Macero
8. Lee Scratch Perry
9. Rudy Van Gelder
10. Giorgio Moroder
11. Willie Mitchell
12. Thomas Dolby
13. Martin Rushent
14. Stuart Price
15. Clive Langer and Alan Winstanley
16. John Leckie
17. Xenomania
18. Rick Rubin
19. Bomb Squad
20. Roy Thomas Baker

1. DJ Premier
2. RZA
3. Pete Rock
4. Just Blaze
5. The Bomb Squad
6. Easy Mo Bee
7. DJ Quik
8. Dr Dre
9. Timbaland
10. Neptunes
11. Diamond D
12. Jay Dilla
13. Madlib
14. Prince Paul
15. DJ Toomp
16. Large Professor
17. Swizz Beatz
18. ?uestlove
19. E-Swift
20. Psycho Les

oh, and thanks to shakey for the time-n-effort !

1. The Chic Organisation/Nile Rogers
2. Brian Eno
3. George Martin
4. Kate Bush
5. Trevor Horn
6. Phil Spector
7. Tony Visconti
8. Lindsey Buckingham
9. Chris Blackwell
10. Daft Punk
11. Dallas Austin
12. Harvey Fuqua
13.Chris Thomas
14. Andy Johns
15. Timbaland
16. The Dust Brothers
17. John Leckie
18. Arthur Baker
19. The Neptunes
20. Jimmy Miller

I hadn't expected you to go all the way to #1, Shakey, or I'd've hung around a bit longer last night. Anyway great idea, I've learned quite a lot, and thanks a bunch for doing it.

xp I don't see how this can be disappointing if you can't get to 20 yourself. I thought it was great. I mean, who are the raft of innovators who are missing out? Also, craftsmen totally belong - there are enough flat and muddy rock records around to see that Chris Thomas brings a lot to his.

Here's my ballot, bolded the ones that made it to the top 50:

1. Patrick Cowley
2. Larry Levan
3. Boris Blank
4. Juan Atkins
5. Shep Pettibone
6. Pole (aka Stefan Betke)
7. Arthur Baker
8. Giorgio Moroder
9. Meshell Ndegeocello
10. Carl Craig
11. Burnt Friedman
12. Roopek (aka Roope Kinnunen)
13. Marley Marl
14. Teo Macero
15. Prince
16. Creed Taylor
17. Swizz Beatz
18. Ben Liebrand
19. Da Beatminerz
20. 4 Hero

I voted solely based on personal taste, not historical importance... So I didn't include people like Spector, as I haven't heard that many of his productions, and on the ones I've heard, the sound hasn't really impressed me that much.

Was surprised that none of the OG disco producers/remixers (Levan, Moulton, Cowley, etc) made it to the top 50. What they did to recorded sound was just as revolutionary as what Spector, Tubby, Macero et al did. Okay, Moroder made it to the top 10, which is great, but his thing (minimizing dance music to a synth groove) was bit different from what Levan & Moulton & co did. They basically (alongside Jamaican dubsters, of course) invented the remix.

Another surprise was that Arthur Baker didn't make it! I thought producing "Planet Rock" alone (not to mention his other electro productions and remixes) would've guaranteed him a spot. As for 80s synth pop, I find it sad Boris Blanks isn't regarded as high as he should be. Stuff he did 25-30 years ago still sounds mad innovative today, and less dated than Trevor Horn's (who I also love) production. I guess the problem is that Blank never did much work outside Yello, and Yello was always too eccentric to make a big breakthrough.

unlike a lot (all?) of the other douchebags on here, Phil never made a bad-sounding record

Even Paul said his "Let it be" did not sound "bad", but he did hate the end product for the production 'result'...

My ballot:

1 Joe Meek
2 Lee Perry
3 Martin Hannett
4 Brian Eno
5 Steve Albini
6 Shadow Morton
7 Willie Mitchell
8 Kevin Shields
9 Chris Thomas
10 John Cale
11 Timbaland
12 Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards
13 Trevor Horn
14 Phil Spector
15 Sam Phillips
16 Dave Fridmann
17 Xenomania
18 Conny Plank
19 Dr Dre
20 Brian Wilson

My ballot:

1. Chic Organization
2. George Martin
3. Trevor Horn
4. Brian Eno
5. Joe Meek
6. Tony Visconti
7. Phil Spector
8. Timbaland
9. Giorgio Moroder
10. Lee 'Scratch' Perry
11. Martin Rushent
12. Martin Hannett
13. Chips Moman
14. Gamble and Huff
15. Chris Thomas
16. Rick Rubin
17. Arif Mardin
18. Bomb Squad
19. Vince Clarke
20. Sly and Robbie

Don't know how I managed to forget the RZA, should have squeezed him in somewhere. Still shaking my head at the dismissal of 'Slave to the Rythm', the pinnacle of Horn's fairlight era imo.

My ballot, slightly thrown together, and there are names I would perhaps include as a result of the rundown:

1. King Tubby
2. Martin Hannett
3. Arthur Baker
4. RZA
5. George Martin
6. Steve Albini
7. Dr Dre
8. Joe Meek
9. Rick Rubin
10. Phil Spector
11. Conny Plank
12. Lee Perry
13. Juan Atkins
14. Richard D. James
15. Brian Eno
16. Tony Visconti
17. Derrick May
18. Pete Rock
19. Bomb Squad
20. Quincy Jones

Has anybody lobbied for Mike Chapman?

I don't think I did, but I considered him for Rapture. That 'bell' sound is one of my favourite production tricks (see also Ain't No Mountain High Enough, Tears Dry On Their Own). What is it? A really loud xylophone?

I asked this just before the outage, was hoping for an explanation because I love those intros. I suspect it might be a 'rounded' Rhodes piano sound?

http://www.gipercussion.co.uk/Premier%20bells.jpg

miserable auteur in Archway

Oi! (Mid) Holloway Road! Fuck yer Archways!

Didn't vote in this, wish I had now. Perry vs. Plank for me... off the top of my head, it'd probably change if I thought more about it.

Actually Holger Czukay might have been my No. 1. Or Pierre Schaeffer.

oh shit how did i forget arthur baker?

Don Was

Producer credits: the B-52's, Iggy Pop, Paul Westerberg, Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne, Bob Dylan, Roy Orbison, Ziggy Marley, Brian Wilson, Ringo Starr, David Crosby, the Rolling Stones, Bob Seger, Garth Brooks, Lyle Lovett, Kris Kristofferson, Willie Nelson, Michelle Shocked, Lucinda Williams, others

Impressive CV for someone who seems not to have received even one vote!

roy thomas baker in only one ballot & no jon landau is kinda surprising

or bob thiele or george avakian

curtis mayfield, isaac hayes, I think those guys have legit claims to top 20 production styles

I didn't vote in this (I never do!), but these popular people would have got my votes if I had:

Steve Albini
George Martin
Brian Eno
Quincy Jones
Holger Czukay
Kate Bush
Timbaland
The Neptunes

I was surprised to see none of these mentioned at all:

Jim O’Rourke
James Murphy
Andrew Weatherall
Chas Chandler
Flood
Curtis Mayfield
Fela Kuti
John McIntyre

And I probably would have voted, or seriously considered voting for, several of these:

Mark Hollis / Tim Friese-Green / Phill Brown
Graham Sutton
Phil and Paul Hartnoll / Dan Snaith / Kieran Hebden / other electronic dudes who’ve never really produced anyone else
Ethan Johns
Jamie Watson (Long Fin Killie)
Brian Deck (Califone)
Guy Stevens

thanks for this Shakey. couldn't bring myself to vote, sorry - I'm sure I could name 20 favourite producers/engineers but ranking them is another story.

nonetheless really enjoyed the rundown. tie between Premier and Visconti the highlight for reasons I can't quite verbalise

complete absence of women from the list is pretty mad, not gonna blame the voters for that one tho

if you squint a bit, Eno at least looks like a woman in that pic

complete absence of women from the list is pretty mad, not gonna blame the voters for that one tho

yeah - this is a "man's world" type of profession, for the most part, and the deeply entrenched sexism of the industry has kept it that way for decades

I mean apart from Kate Bush (who received a couple votes) and Joan Jett I"m at a loss for big names

roy thomas baker in only one ballot & no jon landau is kinda surprising

or bob thiele or george avakian

Roy Thomas Baker was on 2 ballots. those other guys didn't get any votes.

suppose things might have been different if you had voted tho lol

Impressive CV for someone who seems not to have received even one vote!

all those people are great/have done great things, but none of those great things involved Don Was. I guess Cosmic Thing sounds pretty good...

my kinda strange, highly subjective ballot was:

Timbaland
The DFA (was I really the only one?)
The Neptunes
Yasutaka Nakata
Steve Albini
Noon
Jimmy Page
Maciej Cieślak
Daft Punk
Bloodshy & Avant
Autechre
Greg Kurstin
Dave Fridmann
Phil Spector
Phil Ek
Danja
Max Martin
Dr Luke
Todd Edwards
Don Zientara

I purposely tossed the historical importance to hell in favour of choosing at-the-moment personal favs.

Arthur Baker got 3 votes, 70 points

xp

>> Impressive CV for someone who seems not to have received even one vote!

> all those people are great/have done great things, but none of those great things involved Don Was. I guess Cosmic Thing sounds pretty good...

I was aware of that (of course!).... it looks far more impressive than it is, because everyone on that list was long past their prime (save for the B-52's and Bonnie Raitt), which is no doubt why he was ignored here. He's also another of those producers that intentionally stays out of the way and just records what the band plays, kind of like Albini except that he won't throw a fit if you call him a producer. But not having a signature production sound like that of, say, Trevor Horn makes it even easier to forget he's there at all.

suppose things might have been different if you had voted tho lol

I know, I like discussing these stuff but putting a ballot together is the sort of thing that's like I'm not against doing it but it would take me a couple years and if I threw one together just to be in the poll well that'd be exactly what I never liked about polls but that's not on the poll that's just me

so for you, participating in a poll is like voting for a Democrat

yes

except that I end up voting for the Democrat because what the fuck why not whereas putting together a list of who I actually feel are the best producers would be an exercise I'd take seriously

Shakey, got a full list of the voting for posting or linking?

Phil Spector 664
Brian Eno 562
Timbaland 493
George Martin 455
Lee Perry 355
RZA 348
Conny Plank 306
The Bomb Squad 287
Giorgio Moroder 278
Chic Organisation 275
Dr. Dre 254
Brian Wilson 248
Steve Albini 247
Martin Hannett 246
Joe Meek 245
Tony Visconti 242
DJ Premier 242
King Tubby 239
Trevor Horn 226
Teo Macero 207
Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis 180
rudy van gelder 176
The Neptunes 172
Rick Rubin 168
Holland/Dozier/Holland 165
Tom Dowd 141
Willie Mitchell 140
Jimmy Page 139
George Clinton 136
Martin Rushent 134
Thom Bell 131
Tom Wilson 124
Les Paul 122
Pete Rock 118
Chris Thomas 117
Prince 115
John Leckie 110
Geoff Emerick 109
Todd Rundgren 101
Joe Boyd 98
Marley Marl 96
Norman Whitfield 95
Jimmy Miller 95
Gary Katz 94
Xenomania 94
David Briggs 91
swizz beatz 89
The Dust Brothers 88
Glyn Johns 87
Prince Paul 86
Carl Craig 85
DJ Quik 83
mutt lange 82
Allen Toussaint 82
The Dream 77
Bloodshy & Avant 76
Kanye West 74
Daft Punk 73
Stephen Hague 71
Arthur Baker 70
Gamble and Huff 69
Shel Talmy 68
Max Martin 68
Mike Thorne 68
George "Shadow" Morton 67
Sam Phillips 67
Juan Atkins 65
Neptunes 64
Frankie Knuckles/Def Mix 63
Geoff Barrow 62
David Axelrod 62
Mannie Fresh 61
Lindsey Buckingham 59
Dr. Luke 58
Kate Bush 57
Danja 57
Nigel Godrich 53
John Cale 53
Eddie Kramer 52
Ricardo Villalobos 52
Basic Channel 51
Dave Fridmann 51
Andy Johns 50
Just Blaze 47
sly stone 46
Smokey Robinson 44
Norman Smith 43
Organized Noize 42
Creed Taylor 42
Jack Endino 41
Arthur Russell 41
Richard D. James 40
Daniel Lanois 40
Patrick Cowley 40
R. Kelly 40
Kevin Shields 39
Frank Zappa 38
The DFA 36
quincy jones 36
Jason Pierce 36
Larry Levan 36
Adrian Sherwood 36
Large Professor 35
Cosimo Matassa 33
derrick may 33
Nick Lowe 33
Masters at Work 33
Louis Barron 33
J Dilla 33
Babyface 33
Boris Blank 33
Phil Elverum 33
Mike Chapman 31
Steven Stapleton 30
Yasutaka Nakata 30
Tommy Wright III 30
Alan Lomax 30
Ted Templeman 30
Madlib 30
Leiber/Stoller 28
Clive Langer and Alan Winstanley 28
Don Zientara 27
Wiley 27
Andy Wallace 27
Shep Pettibone 27
Dj Skrew 27
Bumps Blackwell 25
Noon 25
Wolfgang Voight 25
Roger Moutenot 25
Easy Mo Bee 25
Terry Melcher 25
Pole (aka Stefan Betke) 25
Jean-Pierre Massiera 24
ewan pearson 24
Frank Wilson 24
KLC 24
Michael B. Tretow 24
The Beatnuts 23
Maciej Cieślak 23
Chaz Jankel 23
Psycho Les 23
Carl Davis 23
dave jerden 23
James Brown 23
Roy Thomas Baker 23
Chris Desjardins 23
Burt Bacharach & Hal David 23
Meshell Ndegeocello 22
Trent Reznor 22
Chris Blackwell 22
Andrew Loog Oldham 22
Tricky 21
Huey P. Meaux 21
Nesuhi Ertegun 21
Kurt Graupner 21
Hugh Jones 21
Gary Kellgren 21
Ant Banks 21
Jerry Wexler 20
Autechre 20
Leslie Kong 20
Rick Jarrard 20
tom middleton 20
Burnt Friedman 20
Dallas Austin 20
Diamond D 20
stock-aitken-waterman 20
Patrick Adams 19
Hugh Padgham 19
Thomas Dolby 19
Greg Kurstin 19
Richie Hawtin 19
Roopek (aka Roope Kinnunen) 19
Al Schmitt 19
Butch Vig 19
Teddy Riley 19
Sasu Ripatti 19
Harvey Fuqua 19
Wharton Tiers 18
Rod Stewart 18
Don Fleming 18
kevin saunderson 18
Chips Moman 18
Dennis Bovell 18
Mitch Easter 18
Stuart Price 17
stargate 17
rob playford 17
Mad Professor 17
Paul Savage 16
Phil Ek 16
Mitchell Froom 16
RedOne 16
Steve Lillywhite 16
Jeremy Harding 16
DJ Toomp 16
Steve Gurley 15
Dave Hassinger 15
Tony Visconti 15
Dan Lissvik 15
Isaac Hayes/David Porter 15
Owen Bradley 15
rodney jerkins 14
Frank Davis 14
Arif Mardin 14
maurizio 14
Chinn-Chapman 13
cajmere 13
Norman Petty 13
?uestlove 13
Jon Brion 13
Flood 13
Ben Liebrand 13
Daz Dillinger 13
Ryan Leslie 13
rich harrison 13
Vince Clarke 12
Joe Gibbs 12
Todd Edwards 12
Cowboy Jack Clement 12
Bangladesh 12
Da Beatminerz 12
E-Swift 12
Jim O'Rourke 12
she'kspere 12
Terror Danjah 11
Lil' Jon 11
4 Hero 11
Dangermouse 11
Giovanni Bonadrini 11
Sly and Robbie 11
lyndsey buckingham 11
Klaus Schulze 11

Tony Visconti seems to be there twice! So I guess he didn't tie with DJ Premier after all

hmmm you're right, that's weird

Allen Touissant just missed the cut! Injustice!

Toussaint, I mean

xxxpost
As is Lindsey Buckingham.

Before the results were even posted, I started to think there oughta be a follow-up poll excluding every name that made the top 50. I mean, every record producer ever is kind of too huge to be narrowed down to one canonical list, which only becomes more obvious when you see some of the names that fell short here.

Very cool poll, though. Thanks for doing this, Shakey.