Gay prog - does it exist?

opened this thread to say that if you're counting 00s stuff then Extra Life is kinda prog and has lyrics which are at least sexually ambiguous, but apparently the thread starter didn't actually want that, so I'm just going to stand in the corner humming "White Music" by Crack The Sky

I know I've mentioned Orchestra Luna in a dozen or more threads, one of my favorite bands ever. I don't know if they were exactly prog, but there was certainly a gay sensibility at work. They got me into showtunes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emP_DxA1KzE

Why does black people never want to get all yessed out?

Larry Heard, Marshall Jefferson were/are big YES fans.

If this thread ventures to say that "prog band ____" is gay because of romantic themes, stage costumes and a aong that mentions a rainbow then I'm out of here.

That's why the only question should be about whether any prog musicians are gay. And so far we got a Mexican prog band that I've never heard of and maybe a prog-metal band but obviously it would be the metal bringing in teh gay

so it's not fair to bring up camp sensibility?

Kodwo Eshun is a huge Yes fan iirc. xxxp

Can't believe I forgot about King's X...

Also, this myth about right wing prog musicians, I know about nobody who is a prog musician and right wing, and who hasn't been a member of either Strawbs or Rush.

(well, OK, Phil Collins, but that entire story was apparently based upon a misinterpretation)

Still waiting for Matt to spill the beans on RJG.

(xxpost) I had to stop reading Geoff Downes' Twitter. Some of his Tweets smelled of RW tendencies.

Not really sure if I count Geoff Downes as prog even though he used to be a member of Yes. (I don't count Asia as prog even though Prog magazine does). Didn't know he was right wing, but even though few artists are, some will be of course.

I wouldn't say he's "right wing", just that some of his Tweets were kind of jingoistic. Still love the dude.

Ahh - here he is blogging during the current Yes tour. Not sure if this is the right thread but I'll post here anyway. He's definitely patriotic (no crime) and addresses said "jingoism"

http://yesworld.com/blog/

Yikes, what a shithead

Also, this myth about right wing prog musicians, I know about nobody who is a prog musician and right wing, and who hasn't been a member of either Strawbs or Rush.

uh, Magma

this seems kinda close (to gay prog):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1j-6vRykFs

There are plenty of female-fronted prog bands. For centre-left (or even just left) prog, see Henry Cow.

― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Monday, 18 July 2011 17:46 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Oooh, cheers for that (emil.y, I saw your counterpoint)

The thread was over the first time someone mentioned Queen, right? Also, I didn't know that there was even a 'myth' about prog musicians being right-wing. (And I would think Yes and Pink Floyd were kind of centre-left?) I don't know anything about Magma's politics, though.

xpost!

Wakeman's a tory.

I mean I know that doesn't mean every prog musician's a tory but

Ah, so he is. I guess Zappa was a libertarian, right? Obv Wyatt and the whole RIO movement were/are hard-left.

Rush have been kind of centre-left since 81 or so, haven't they? Actually, there was a VH-1 interview where Peart not only acknowledged that he was being a bit naive about global capitalism when he wrote "2112" but that he was inspired to make that statement out of frustration with all the pressure from the record company to make more accessible music after Career of Steel, of feeling like his individualism was being repressed by big business. All I could do was go "Uh..."

Can Styx be gay prog if Styx themselves are not gay?

yes!

I don't know anything about Magma's politics, though.

Vander has been pretty convincingly outed as a Nazi

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64446&PN=1

This smells like some huge bullsh*t.

whatever. I didn't want to believe it, but the evidence is pretty damning.

Nazis are generally big into jazz, yeah.

I always think of Throbbing Gristle as a sort of malfunctioning prog band—in a way the Last Prog Band—so I dunno, by extension I consider Coil a prog band too.

"Astral Disaster" is pretty proggy in vibe!

Nazis are generally big into jazz, yeah.

yeah, and non-nazis generally put swastikas, albert speer buildings and Goebbels quotes on their album artwork?

I mean, Vander is clearly a weird, conflicted guy. His wife is Jewish as were various band members. But I think it's also pretty clear that he has a unhealthy fascination with Hitler that goes beyond the simple "ooh we're so dark" punk rock shock tactics that I originally thought Magma was all about.

I don't really see anything at that link that goes beyond hearsay, mostly from one disgruntled ex-band member.

I don't really see why the guy would lie. And it's been a while since I read all of the comments and everything, but I think there were stories from a couple of former band members, and fans who had interactions with Vander. Plus I kind of trust that Daevid Allen isn't lying about Vander having nazi flags and hitler pictures up in his apartment.

And then there's the swastikas on the cover of the first album, and the picture of the Speer stadium design on this cover http://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_covers/646/cover_42117992009.jpg

And this rough translation from an interview in 1970 "It is really inconceivable that on one side we have evolved and they have remained like primates requesting for funds to eat, just like the black Africans. We tried to help by building everything they needed, sent doctors, industrialists, in short EVERYTHING, and now they refuse civilization."

Here's the full quote

"SW: And what do you think of hippies?
CV: Nothing good because they did not create. These are primitives who unfortunately contribute nothing to world and its evolution. I prefer the scientists, people who research, construct. It's even fun that there are people who think that India is the most advanced people of our planet, so advanced that they all die of hunger there ... They are forced to ask the money to survive, now that´s really an advanced people for me, there is no problem ...

SW: Yes, and people continue to place this civilization over all others without a second of thinking about their problems.
CV: They are wise, so wise that they lie in the street because they are tired and weak and they are starving ... for me that is really a nation of degenerated people which has contributed nothing to science, and deteriorate more and more until one day, sick and dying, they will disappear from the surface of the Earth. It is really inconceivable that on one side we have evolved and they have remained like primates requesting for funds to eat, just like the black Africans. We tried to help by building everything they needed, sent doctors, industrialists, in short EVERYTHING, and now they refuse civilization."

Wakeman's a tory.

Apparently is, but I think the entire Straws were, more or less.

(in spite of making a song about being in trade unions and all)

Excuse me, I had a beer and I did not read this thread. But. I was just at a bar that was playing a New York Dolls film and they looked kind of queerish to me. And that's not prog is it? I thought they were punk but it seemed pretty glam also. What gives?

it's the old mistake of thinking that yr experience of art lies solely inside the art instead of hanging somewhere between you and what you listen to - queerness, any interpretation, isn't about deciphering what's out there; it's a way of listening/perceiving.

(promising myself that's the last time i will state the obvious)

ok, yeah that is pretty obv but what i want to know is if they were queer or not. them, not me. me, i'm not so sure.

And then there's the swastikas on the cover of the first album

um, yes. but this swastika is also being crushed by a giant dinosaur creature.

Plus I kind of trust that Daevid Allen isn't lying about Vander having nazi flags and hitler pictures up in his apartment

Must have led to some awkward conversations when Stella's parents came over for tea

what about Gong? Gentle Giant? Some of the German Bands like Amon Duul 2 and Can started getting more glammed out in the late '70s and doing disco-y stuff.

Which albums/moments of theirs are most glammed/discoed out?

And yes, Queen absolutely count. And duh, of course, Roxy Music. Totally forgot about them.

Off to city hall to legally change my middle name to "Romantic Themes."

*restrains self from correcting Hongro*

Which albums/moments of theirs are most glammed/discoed out?

Well, Can had a disco hit "I Want More", plus the reprise ".........And More" on their album Flow Motion. Their album Landed has a vaguely Roxy Music feel to it too. The songs Sunday Jam and Aspectacle are pretty disco-y as well.

But then disco itself has pretty strong roots in progressive rock. David Mancuso was basically a hippie dude who played a lot of progressive rock and fusion types of records at the Loft (like Henri Texier, Babe Ruth, etc)

And lots of the later 70s ADII albums had kind of a roxy music or disco influence.

plus if you're counting glam and roxy music, then there's a whole huge crossover between prog and glam. Wizzard, Eno solo, some Todd Rundgren (plus the Hall and Oates album he produced), etc

hmmmm....the magma/vander nazi stuff itt is bumming me out

wrt to Peart:

in Roadshow With Drums, his recent book, he definitely goes out of his way to criticize fox news and the bush administration