Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream poll

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Inspired by the winner of this thread last week: best Butch Vig-produced album.

http://www.rigmarole.de/smashingpumpkins/jpeg_cover/siamesedream/big/tsp_SiameseDreamCleanVersion_CD.jpg

Poll Results

OptionVotes
9. Mayonaise 24
1. Cherub Rock 14
7. Soma 11
8. Geek U.S.A. 10
3. Today 7
5. Rocket 6
4. Hummer 4
11. Silverfuck 4
6. Disarm 3
12. Sweet Sweet 1
10. Spaceboy 1
2. Quiet 1
13. Luna 0


Bee OK, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 01:35 (nine years ago) link

forever and always: "Mayonaise."

Bee OK, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 01:36 (nine years ago) link

"Hummer"

The first half is a 90s rock classic. The second half SUCKS.

Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 01:53 (nine years ago) link

ehh kinda...definitely is half-expendable that's for sure

I'm gonna vote Mayonaise

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 02:02 (nine years ago) link

The first half is a 90s rock classic. The second half SUCKS.

So wrong.

Perfect album. Voting "Mayonaise," which should win. "Today" is a close second - what an amazing song!

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 02:05 (nine years ago) link

siamese dream & purple rain in the same week.... too many brainbusters

billstevejim, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 04:19 (nine years ago) link

sticking w/ basics: Cherub Rock

Welcome to the Geirordome (Pillbox), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 04:32 (nine years ago) link

Geek USA. tracks 7/8/9 make for an epic run.

Simon H. Shit (Simon H.), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 06:39 (nine years ago) link

Disarm narrowly over Mayonaise, but it's close.

Best thing about Butch Vig's work on this was that he managed to reduce Corgan's voice to a wisp for most of it - made it easier to enjoy the good things about the band without the appallingly obnoxious one constantly getting in the way.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 07:10 (nine years ago) link

Not the classic SP album it's made out to be. I'd actually rate Gish, Mellon Collie and maybe even Adore above this one. That said, Soma is an amazing song.

Evil Eau (dog latin), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:44 (nine years ago) link

"Soma" kicks my ass every time. definitely my vote.

c'est cheese and die (absolutely clean glasses), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:47 (nine years ago) link

^

Really won't trust ilm anymore if the top two is not 1. Soma 2. Mayonaise

kkvgz, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:51 (nine years ago) link

Not that I've had any respect for you fruits since you voted for the Smiths over the Cure, but whatever.

kkvgz, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:53 (nine years ago) link

The second half SUCKS.

Waht fresh madness is this?

Everything a contender except Quiet, Rocket, Luna. Hummer loses points for only becoming transcendent in the last couple of minutes. But really... Mayonaise no question.

standing on the shoulders of pissants (ledge), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 09:15 (nine years ago) link

I rank 'em:

1. soma
2. geek u.s.a.
3. rocket
4. silverfuck
5. quiet
6. hummer
7. sweet sweet
8. cherub rock
9. mayonaise
10. today
11. disarm
12. luna
13. spaceboy

c'est cheese and die (absolutely clean glasses), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 09:43 (nine years ago) link

and I love all of them

c'est cheese and die (absolutely clean glasses), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 09:43 (nine years ago) link

I played my 17-year-old copy of this, shittily copied onto a shit tape, on a shitawful car stereo a few weeks ago, and was filled with a shitawfully shameful sense of nostalgia

it ruled but 'Geek USA' is the song that I still have various parts of running through my head as a result, so I voted that

Frank-Lampard-backing-anti-semitism-campaign.html (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 10:11 (nine years ago) link

def need to dig this out again soon. I have a real soft spot for Sweet Sweet and Luna - ideas they'd protract on the last part of the follow up record.

Evil Eau (dog latin), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 10:29 (nine years ago) link

I haven't listened to this album in way too long and would like to vote for a deep cut (especially since "Hummer" was one of the few highlights of the show I saw last year), but I gotta go with "Rocket," which I am still kind of bitter wasn't as big a hit as the other singles.

barbaric ya'll (some dude), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 14:45 (nine years ago) link

I'm kinda curious which is Ned's favorite.

Voted MAYO

wewetyourpants.com (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 14:52 (nine years ago) link

Voting "Mayonaise", but man Mr. Snrub could not be more wrong about the second half being made of SUCK. "Mayo" and "Silverfuck" are among two of the best songs from this era. I think this is probably my most listened to album ever.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 16:27 (nine years ago) link

imo this is only 2nd to Superunknown as the best of the big '90s alt-rock blockbusters

barbaric ya'll (some dude), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:16 (nine years ago) link

Nah, this is marginally better than Superunknown, but I'm with you on these two being the tops.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:17 (nine years ago) link

mayonaise
soma
rocket
today
quiet
hummer
sweet sweet
cherub rock
disarm
spaceboy
geek usa
luna
silverfuck

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:44 (nine years ago) link

"Silverfuck" way too low.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:46 (nine years ago) link

more like stupidfuck

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 18:07 (nine years ago) link

lol zing

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 18:10 (nine years ago) link

"Soma" or "Hummer". I guess I lean a little towards the former...

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 18:10 (nine years ago) link

Between "Quiet" and "Mayonaise" for me.

Duane Barry, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 21:14 (nine years ago) link

Mayonaise. Although I'm not a big fan of these guys in general.

kornrulez6969, Thursday, 28 April 2011 00:52 (nine years ago) link

i hope i never stumble upon a lyric sheet for this album, it almost killed my love of "Cherub Rock" when i realized what the words to the chorus are and that they're even worse than "life's a bummer when you're a hummer"

barbaric ya'll (some dude), Thursday, 28 April 2011 00:53 (nine years ago) link

Ha, OTM.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, 28 April 2011 02:50 (nine years ago) link

i love this whole album, don't care what anyone sez

shamefully blowable (latebloomer), Thursday, 28 April 2011 02:53 (nine years ago) link

Kudos to Alan Moulder, for mixing this like a pop My Bloody Valentine album.

My mom is all about capital gains tax butthurtedness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 April 2011 02:55 (nine years ago) link

Hummer in all its shining glory. One of my all-time favourite tracks for sure.

I think this must be the album I played most in my life, and seeing that I will never equal that kind of lol-teenage compulsive listening again, it will forever live on as the album I played most.

My Life with the Thrill Kill Nult (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 28 April 2011 11:25 (nine years ago) link

I have very strong memories of being on a summer tour with my college choir when this came out, listening to it on my buddy's Discman. Because of first impressions, I'm voting "Silverfuck".

Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 13:26 (nine years ago) link

"Silverfuck" is probably the greatest encapsulation of what the Pumpkins were doing at the time.

terl you know it's grue (absolutely clean glasses), Thursday, 28 April 2011 15:43 (nine years ago) link

...or it's a big loud dumb mashup of better songs from this album. Compared to almost every other 7+ Pumpkins song* it comes off as incredibly weak and obvious.

*I can't say for any of the Machinas' songs. I haven't listened to either one...

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:15 (nine years ago) link

7+ minute

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:17 (nine years ago) link

or it's a big loud dumb mashup of better songs from this album

thank you for succinctly describing why this song is awesome

Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:28 (nine years ago) link

LOL @ DJP

on second thought,Silverfuck & Geek USA could probably switch places on my little rundown upthread...Silverfuck is a longer, gaucher Geek USA, but that "you lie to yourself" part (the only dece part of the song) goes on for a couple of minutes, whereas the "in a dream we are connected" break in Geek USA is too short...I actually don't like this album that much, and a big part of that is bcz I think most of the Billy's nods to 'metal' on here are kind of trite...exception here is Quiet, which is an absolute fucking monster of a song...

Mayonaise is better, though: SD's 1979, Billy hitting a good feeling & riding it out, not at all calling attention to the numerous songwriting left-turns he employs, each one keeping the vibe going while at the same time subtly raising the stakes, building tension to the climax: "I JUST WANNNA BEEEE...MEEEE....!" Prindle goes on about that little "SKREE!" bit of distortion, which is a great hook, and used really well in the song, while at the same time implying the emotional turbulence that "Silverfuck" rather clunkily tries to embody

Song is a pop masterpiece; likely the best thing Billy ever did.

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:54 (nine years ago) link

I'm kinda curious which is Ned's favorite.

Don't think I have one. I stand by all this.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 29 April 2011 14:00 (nine years ago) link

i listened to this album this week, it was fantastic with all those memories come flowing through. it has held up really, really well to be honest. i remember at the time thinking that this album would be the best ever and would be hard to top. not sure if the Pumpkins released a better album, though i did like a bunch of their later songs.

Bee OK, Saturday, 30 April 2011 02:50 (nine years ago) link

just putting this on now in honor of the poll here. will report back soon

wtf:
'happiness will make you wonder will i feel ok'

i must give a shout-out to those strange photographs what with the lyrics all scribbled on them in the booklet.

There is half an album's worth of gold. Most of the 2nd half is garbage.

Be surprised if Soma doesn't win.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 30 April 2011 11:01 (nine years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Saturday, 30 April 2011 23:01 (nine years ago) link

soma has that guitar solo so

Gukbe, Saturday, 30 April 2011 23:35 (nine years ago) link

^^

voted geek USA, though. Soaring epic followed by bludgeoning epic

blank, Sunday, 1 May 2011 02:34 (nine years ago) link

album is also a feat of mixing cf. the layered guitar nonsense all over but for instance cf. the layered guitar nonsense at the end of "today"

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2020 17:33 (four months ago) link

amazing the drums don't sound like cardboard

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2020 17:36 (four months ago) link

also i realize billy corgan's voice is objectively horrible but that gentle high-whisper thing he often does floats over the guitar crunch really nicely and his voice is genuinely pleasing to my ear on parts of "hummer" "soma" and "mayo" and especially the verses of "rocket" (caveat i actually really love billy's studio singing up to a point and that point is machina/zwan; his live singing... mostly regrettable)

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2020 17:43 (four months ago) link

yes yes yes (re high whisper)

brimstead, Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:00 (four months ago) link

Yeah - I have no problem with his voice on these early records.

Can Butch Vig not do "dynamimcs"? (morrisp), Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:05 (four months ago) link

nice to see the enthusiasm for this record. as a teen i listened to it a lot but i never really burned for it. i just listened to the first half and beyond being surprised that i have it all mostly memorized, it really does nothing for me now - sort of nice to confirm that i'm just not into this band at all through going back to what everyone seems to agree is their best record. though weirdly i like reading all of these threads about them.

Give me a Chad Smith-type feel (map), Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:19 (four months ago) link

also i just wanted to say that the drums on "geek usa" are insane

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:42 (four months ago) link

jimmy chamberlin has secret octopus arms

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:45 (four months ago) link

Corgan has that kind of voice where you wonder how he ever decided he could/should be a singer. It's an objectively bad noise a lot of the time and he must have a stupid amount of self-confidence/delusion to force it upon the world (I realise lacking confidence isn't something of which you could accuse Corgan).

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:55 (four months ago) link

Ftr, I love his voice on Siamese Dream (and fell gradually out of love with it).

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 10 September 2020 18:56 (four months ago) link

My guess is Corgan knows he’s a bad singer but still wants to record his own songs. Singing is hard!

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:13 (four months ago) link

I would probably enjoy them less if they had a “good” singer tbh

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:13 (four months ago) link

just imagine someone singing “my boredom has outshined the sun” straight

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:16 (four months ago) link

Do bands still release B-sides compilations? Or is that just not a thing any more? Thinking about the great B-sides comps of the nineties - Incesticide, Pisces Iscariot etc, this is a bit of shame

Seems like these comps happen over on BandCamp or as special Spotify "Streaming Only" releases. These days mostly stray stuff gets saved for Deluxe Editions of albums.

The Wilco box set from awhile back was an amazing unintentional epitaph for these kinds of collections: 4 discs of previously released material taken from B-Sides, soundtracks, tribute albums, radio samplers, benefit albums, and perhaps fittingly, one of the last songs was the flip to an RSD exclusive 45.

"...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:31 (four months ago) link

i've posted this before but i never have any idea what people have in mind when they think billy corgan's singing is bad on these records. like, what kind of voice would slide better into these layers of sound? or better express that frail and bedazzled child at the heart of the maelstrom? are we imagining michael bolton or what?

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:50 (four months ago) link

He sounds like Mick Jagger sometimes.

brimstead, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:50 (four months ago) link

i admit i could be won over by The Smashing Pumpkins feat. Brad Delp

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:51 (four months ago) link

His voice is this weak, mewling thing and it fits perfectly - particularly on Siamese Dream. I'm happy with both of these things being true.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:01 (four months ago) link

I don't have a working cassette deck to play the 1989 demo tape that comes in the Pisces Iscariot box, but of course I found it on YouTube... some real Cure influence happening back then, huh?

Can Butch Vig not do "dynamimcs"? (morrisp), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:24 (four months ago) link

It's not that he isn't James LaBrie, it's that sometimes he sounds like he's recreating a scene from Deliverance.

His voice can be unpleasant as hell to listen to. I like SP but I don't begrudge someone who can't get past his voice.

I mean, Kurt Cobain wasn't exactly Mario Lanza and generally people like his vocals.

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:29 (four months ago) link

should have gotten the guy from Smash Mouth if he really wanted to sell to the masses

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:34 (four months ago) link

We've talked about it a lot but in the context of the music, I really like what he did pre-95. After that point, his voice got really unpleasant for me and was also foregrounded in the mix a lot more.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:35 (four months ago) link

I mean, I probably would like Kurt Cobain or Chris Cornell better on "Tonight Tonight".

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:40 (four months ago) link

iirc the mcis vocal takes are all flood egging billy on and getting this deliberately raw and in your face and ott performance but i still think moments like "galapogos" are really lovely (and moments like "in the arms of sleep" are.... very rough)

adore has his best vocals but ofc they're not always cushioned by guitar noise and they are really mixed upfront

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:48 (four months ago) link

Kurt doing "Tonight Tonight" is extremely funny when I play it out in my brain

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:51 (four months ago) link

I mean, it was off the top of my head and Cornell might have been a better example but I don't really think his ballad voice would have been more ridiculous than what's actually on the record.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:54 (four months ago) link

"And they all want you to change..." ;)

Can Butch Vig not do "dynamimcs"? (morrisp), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:00 (four months ago) link

Kurt doing "Tonight, Tonight" would probably involve him screaming part of it an octave higher for no reason at one random point

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:16 (four months ago) link

Replace "an octave higher" with "out of tune" and that's what it sounds like to me rn.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:33 (four months ago) link

I’m having a hard time picturing anybody else who could sing the lyrics of “tonight tonight” convincingly... maybe Neil diamond?

brimstead, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:39 (four months ago) link

Prince maybe

brimstead, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:39 (four months ago) link

I want to hear Julien Baker sing of crucifying the insincere, and she'd kill those long held notes.

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:41 (four months ago) link

Cracklin' Bullet (with butterfly wings)

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:47 (four months ago) link

Phil Collins could do "Tonight, Tonight" just to add to his Tonight collection

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:48 (four months ago) link

This might have been Neil Diamond-informed, actually: https://youtu.be/7iosnvKSBIo

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:54 (four months ago) link

what kind of voice would slide better into these layers of sound?

I get exactly the style of vocal he's aiming for and it one that would fit very well with the music, and most of his instincts regarding vocal phrasing and dynamics are very good ones - but he just doesn't have the skill to pull it off, and always somehow sounds like he's simultaneously making too much and not enough effort.

chap, Friday, 11 September 2020 09:13 (four months ago) link

It's an odd voice. It's like an angry late teen and a scared 8 year old in the same body.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 11 September 2020 09:35 (four months ago) link

agreed, it's so perfect

Doctor Casino, Friday, 11 September 2020 12:36 (four months ago) link

corroded Gordon Gano

Chris L, Friday, 11 September 2020 13:17 (four months ago) link

e only sd-era b-side i'd want on the album is "whir," and god knows it doesn't fit and is perfect where it is on pisces iscariot

"Whir" really is a gem.

Sam Weller, Friday, 11 September 2020 13:28 (four months ago) link

That makes sense about Flood btw, Brad.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Friday, 11 September 2020 13:37 (four months ago) link

tried to post this yesterday but got shut out by my "you're wasting too much time on fun stuff" browser plugin ---- i do agree there's a point after which billy's voice stops being an asset. for me it's noticeable on some of Adore and a huge problem on the less "lush" tracks of Machina. as some of you have already touched on (and which i think we got into in detail on one of the ballot poll threads?), it's a combination of a changed singing style, a different way of mixing his vocals, and the changing sound of the band overall. for whatever reason it doesn't bother me on the MCIS tracks where this greater prominence is already happening, but maybe it's also that i've sort of phased out listening to the most abrasive tracks on that album anyway.

Doctor Casino, Friday, 11 September 2020 15:18 (four months ago) link

Corgan’s vox are awesome on “Frail & Bedazzled”—his voice is given that flat, dry treatment and slid into the middle of the mix (also great when everything else drops out, leaving just his vocal).

Helps that it’s a kick-a$$ song!

Can Butch Vig not do "dynamimcs"? (morrisp), Friday, 11 September 2020 23:45 (four months ago) link

you could maybe cut idk one song from SD, if you had to, but more than that and it'd be diminished in grandeur no matter what the songs were.

This gets at the core at what makes this album so mercurial and distinctive, while at the same time imho only decent & not-great: it's an album with, like, eight beating hearts

more haim than good (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 12 September 2020 23:16 (four months ago) link

The Core, The Eight-Beating Hearts Music...

"...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 12 September 2020 23:18 (four months ago) link

been thinking about this and can’t help but believing J. Mascis would crush the vox dept

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, 13 September 2020 06:03 (four months ago) link

two months pass...

I'm a bit of a Butch Vig sceptic but I'm listening to Mayonaise on a different setup (ftr: laptop/my boys' flash new speaker) and goddamn I can really hear just how fucking awesome Jimmy Chamberlin's drums sound.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 13 November 2020 20:44 (two months ago) link

three weeks pass...

"Sliverfuck" 100% rules

DJP, Wednesday, 9 December 2020 20:47 (one month ago) link

Yup. And the insane/insanely longer live versions even more so.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 9 December 2020 20:55 (one month ago) link

I love how “Mogwai Fear Satan” is kinda like a drawn out “Silverfuck” jam. Better guitar/drum sounds on SD, tho.

brimstead, Wednesday, 9 December 2020 21:22 (one month ago) link


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