Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream poll

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Inspired by the winner of this thread last week: best Butch Vig-produced album.

http://www.rigmarole.de/smashingpumpkins/jpeg_cover/siamesedream/big/tsp_SiameseDreamCleanVersion_CD.jpg

Poll Results

OptionVotes
9. Mayonaise 24
1. Cherub Rock 14
7. Soma 11
8. Geek U.S.A. 10
3. Today 7
5. Rocket 6
4. Hummer 4
11. Silverfuck 4
6. Disarm 3
12. Sweet Sweet 1
10. Spaceboy 1
2. Quiet 1
13. Luna 0


Bee OK, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 01:35 (eleven years ago) link

forever and always: "Mayonaise."

Bee OK, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 01:36 (eleven years ago) link

"Hummer"

The first half is a 90s rock classic. The second half SUCKS.

Mr. Snrub, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 01:53 (eleven years ago) link

ehh kinda...definitely is half-expendable that's for sure

I'm gonna vote Mayonaise

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 02:02 (eleven years ago) link

The first half is a 90s rock classic. The second half SUCKS.

So wrong.

Perfect album. Voting "Mayonaise," which should win. "Today" is a close second - what an amazing song!

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 02:05 (eleven years ago) link

siamese dream & purple rain in the same week.... too many brainbusters

billstevejim, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 04:19 (eleven years ago) link

sticking w/ basics: Cherub Rock

Welcome to the Geirordome (Pillbox), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 04:32 (eleven years ago) link

Geek USA. tracks 7/8/9 make for an epic run.

Simon H. Shit (Simon H.), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 06:39 (eleven years ago) link

Disarm narrowly over Mayonaise, but it's close.

Best thing about Butch Vig's work on this was that he managed to reduce Corgan's voice to a wisp for most of it - made it easier to enjoy the good things about the band without the appallingly obnoxious one constantly getting in the way.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 07:10 (eleven years ago) link

Not the classic SP album it's made out to be. I'd actually rate Gish, Mellon Collie and maybe even Adore above this one. That said, Soma is an amazing song.

Evil Eau (dog latin), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:44 (eleven years ago) link

"Soma" kicks my ass every time. definitely my vote.

c'est cheese and die (absolutely clean glasses), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:47 (eleven years ago) link

^

Really won't trust ilm anymore if the top two is not 1. Soma 2. Mayonaise

kkvgz, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:51 (eleven years ago) link

Not that I've had any respect for you fruits since you voted for the Smiths over the Cure, but whatever.

kkvgz, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 08:53 (eleven years ago) link

The second half SUCKS.

Waht fresh madness is this?

Everything a contender except Quiet, Rocket, Luna. Hummer loses points for only becoming transcendent in the last couple of minutes. But really... Mayonaise no question.

standing on the shoulders of pissants (ledge), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 09:15 (eleven years ago) link

I rank 'em:

1. soma
2. geek u.s.a.
3. rocket
4. silverfuck
5. quiet
6. hummer
7. sweet sweet
8. cherub rock
9. mayonaise
10. today
11. disarm
12. luna
13. spaceboy

c'est cheese and die (absolutely clean glasses), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 09:43 (eleven years ago) link

and I love all of them

c'est cheese and die (absolutely clean glasses), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 09:43 (eleven years ago) link

I played my 17-year-old copy of this, shittily copied onto a shit tape, on a shitawful car stereo a few weeks ago, and was filled with a shitawfully shameful sense of nostalgia

it ruled but 'Geek USA' is the song that I still have various parts of running through my head as a result, so I voted that

Frank-Lampard-backing-anti-semitism-campaign.html (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 10:11 (eleven years ago) link

def need to dig this out again soon. I have a real soft spot for Sweet Sweet and Luna - ideas they'd protract on the last part of the follow up record.

Evil Eau (dog latin), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 10:29 (eleven years ago) link

I haven't listened to this album in way too long and would like to vote for a deep cut (especially since "Hummer" was one of the few highlights of the show I saw last year), but I gotta go with "Rocket," which I am still kind of bitter wasn't as big a hit as the other singles.

barbaric ya'll (some dude), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 14:45 (eleven years ago) link

I'm kinda curious which is Ned's favorite.

Voted MAYO

wewetyourpants.com (rip van wanko), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 14:52 (eleven years ago) link

Voting "Mayonaise", but man Mr. Snrub could not be more wrong about the second half being made of SUCK. "Mayo" and "Silverfuck" are among two of the best songs from this era. I think this is probably my most listened to album ever.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 16:27 (eleven years ago) link

imo this is only 2nd to Superunknown as the best of the big '90s alt-rock blockbusters

barbaric ya'll (some dude), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:16 (eleven years ago) link

Nah, this is marginally better than Superunknown, but I'm with you on these two being the tops.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:17 (eleven years ago) link

mayonaise
soma
rocket
today
quiet
hummer
sweet sweet
cherub rock
disarm
spaceboy
geek usa
luna
silverfuck

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:44 (eleven years ago) link

"Silverfuck" way too low.

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 17:46 (eleven years ago) link

more like stupidfuck

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 18:07 (eleven years ago) link

lol zing

'what are you, the Hymen Protection League of America?' (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 18:10 (eleven years ago) link

"Soma" or "Hummer". I guess I lean a little towards the former...

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 27 April 2011 18:10 (eleven years ago) link

Between "Quiet" and "Mayonaise" for me.

Duane Barry, Wednesday, 27 April 2011 21:14 (eleven years ago) link

Mayonaise. Although I'm not a big fan of these guys in general.

kornrulez6969, Thursday, 28 April 2011 00:52 (eleven years ago) link

i hope i never stumble upon a lyric sheet for this album, it almost killed my love of "Cherub Rock" when i realized what the words to the chorus are and that they're even worse than "life's a bummer when you're a hummer"

barbaric ya'll (some dude), Thursday, 28 April 2011 00:53 (eleven years ago) link

Ha, OTM.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Thursday, 28 April 2011 02:50 (eleven years ago) link

i love this whole album, don't care what anyone sez

shamefully blowable (latebloomer), Thursday, 28 April 2011 02:53 (eleven years ago) link

Kudos to Alan Moulder, for mixing this like a pop My Bloody Valentine album.

My mom is all about capital gains tax butthurtedness (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 28 April 2011 02:55 (eleven years ago) link

Hummer in all its shining glory. One of my all-time favourite tracks for sure.

I think this must be the album I played most in my life, and seeing that I will never equal that kind of lol-teenage compulsive listening again, it will forever live on as the album I played most.

My Life with the Thrill Kill Nult (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 28 April 2011 11:25 (eleven years ago) link

I have very strong memories of being on a summer tour with my college choir when this came out, listening to it on my buddy's Discman. Because of first impressions, I'm voting "Silverfuck".

Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Thursday, 28 April 2011 13:26 (eleven years ago) link

"Silverfuck" is probably the greatest encapsulation of what the Pumpkins were doing at the time.

terl you know it's grue (absolutely clean glasses), Thursday, 28 April 2011 15:43 (eleven years ago) link

...or it's a big loud dumb mashup of better songs from this album. Compared to almost every other 7+ Pumpkins song* it comes off as incredibly weak and obvious.

*I can't say for any of the Machinas' songs. I haven't listened to either one...

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:15 (eleven years ago) link

7+ minute

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:17 (eleven years ago) link

or it's a big loud dumb mashup of better songs from this album

thank you for succinctly describing why this song is awesome

Dreaded Burrito Gang (DJP), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:28 (eleven years ago) link

LOL @ DJP

on second thought,Silverfuck & Geek USA could probably switch places on my little rundown upthread...Silverfuck is a longer, gaucher Geek USA, but that "you lie to yourself" part (the only dece part of the song) goes on for a couple of minutes, whereas the "in a dream we are connected" break in Geek USA is too short...I actually don't like this album that much, and a big part of that is bcz I think most of the Billy's nods to 'metal' on here are kind of trite...exception here is Quiet, which is an absolute fucking monster of a song...

Mayonaise is better, though: SD's 1979, Billy hitting a good feeling & riding it out, not at all calling attention to the numerous songwriting left-turns he employs, each one keeping the vibe going while at the same time subtly raising the stakes, building tension to the climax: "I JUST WANNNA BEEEE...MEEEE....!" Prindle goes on about that little "SKREE!" bit of distortion, which is a great hook, and used really well in the song, while at the same time implying the emotional turbulence that "Silverfuck" rather clunkily tries to embody

Song is a pop masterpiece; likely the best thing Billy ever did.

Dr. Suggestban, or How I Learned to Stop etc. (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 29 April 2011 13:54 (eleven years ago) link

I'm kinda curious which is Ned's favorite.

Don't think I have one. I stand by all this.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 29 April 2011 14:00 (eleven years ago) link

i listened to this album this week, it was fantastic with all those memories come flowing through. it has held up really, really well to be honest. i remember at the time thinking that this album would be the best ever and would be hard to top. not sure if the Pumpkins released a better album, though i did like a bunch of their later songs.

Bee OK, Saturday, 30 April 2011 02:50 (eleven years ago) link

just putting this on now in honor of the poll here. will report back soon

the arching beast limb vulva singing upside down and backwards (jdchurchill), Saturday, 30 April 2011 03:20 (eleven years ago) link

wtf:
'happiness will make you wonder will i feel ok'

the arching beast limb vulva singing upside down and backwards (jdchurchill), Saturday, 30 April 2011 03:35 (eleven years ago) link

i must give a shout-out to those strange photographs what with the lyrics all scribbled on them in the booklet.

the arching beast limb vulva singing upside down and backwards (jdchurchill), Saturday, 30 April 2011 03:37 (eleven years ago) link

There is half an album's worth of gold. Most of the 2nd half is garbage.

Be surprised if Soma doesn't win.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 30 April 2011 11:01 (eleven years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Saturday, 30 April 2011 23:01 (eleven years ago) link

soma has that guitar solo so

Gukbe, Saturday, 30 April 2011 23:35 (eleven years ago) link

^^

voted geek USA, though. Soaring epic followed by bludgeoning epic

blank, Sunday, 1 May 2011 02:34 (eleven years ago) link

i've posted this before but i never have any idea what people have in mind when they think billy corgan's singing is bad on these records. like, what kind of voice would slide better into these layers of sound? or better express that frail and bedazzled child at the heart of the maelstrom? are we imagining michael bolton or what?

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:50 (one year ago) link

He sounds like Mick Jagger sometimes.

brimstead, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:50 (one year ago) link

i admit i could be won over by The Smashing Pumpkins feat. Brad Delp

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 10 September 2020 19:51 (one year ago) link

His voice is this weak, mewling thing and it fits perfectly - particularly on Siamese Dream. I'm happy with both of these things being true.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:01 (one year ago) link

I don't have a working cassette deck to play the 1989 demo tape that comes in the Pisces Iscariot box, but of course I found it on YouTube... some real Cure influence happening back then, huh?

Can Butch Vig not do "dynamimcs"? (morrisp), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:24 (one year ago) link

It's not that he isn't James LaBrie, it's that sometimes he sounds like he's recreating a scene from Deliverance.

His voice can be unpleasant as hell to listen to. I like SP but I don't begrudge someone who can't get past his voice.

I mean, Kurt Cobain wasn't exactly Mario Lanza and generally people like his vocals.

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:29 (one year ago) link

should have gotten the guy from Smash Mouth if he really wanted to sell to the masses

Doctor Casino, Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:34 (one year ago) link

We've talked about it a lot but in the context of the music, I really like what he did pre-95. After that point, his voice got really unpleasant for me and was also foregrounded in the mix a lot more.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:35 (one year ago) link

I mean, I probably would like Kurt Cobain or Chris Cornell better on "Tonight Tonight".

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:40 (one year ago) link

iirc the mcis vocal takes are all flood egging billy on and getting this deliberately raw and in your face and ott performance but i still think moments like "galapogos" are really lovely (and moments like "in the arms of sleep" are.... very rough)

adore has his best vocals but ofc they're not always cushioned by guitar noise and they are really mixed upfront

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:48 (one year ago) link

Kurt doing "Tonight Tonight" is extremely funny when I play it out in my brain

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:51 (one year ago) link

I mean, it was off the top of my head and Cornell might have been a better example but I don't really think his ballad voice would have been more ridiculous than what's actually on the record.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 20:54 (one year ago) link

"And they all want you to change..." ;)

Can Butch Vig not do "dynamimcs"? (morrisp), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:00 (one year ago) link

Kurt doing "Tonight, Tonight" would probably involve him screaming part of it an octave higher for no reason at one random point

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:16 (one year ago) link

Replace "an octave higher" with "out of tune" and that's what it sounds like to me rn.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:33 (one year ago) link

I’m having a hard time picturing anybody else who could sing the lyrics of “tonight tonight” convincingly... maybe Neil diamond?

brimstead, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:39 (one year ago) link

Prince maybe

brimstead, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:39 (one year ago) link

I want to hear Julien Baker sing of crucifying the insincere, and she'd kill those long held notes.

unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:41 (one year ago) link

Cracklin' Bullet (with butterfly wings)

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:47 (one year ago) link

Phil Collins could do "Tonight, Tonight" just to add to his Tonight collection

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:48 (one year ago) link

This might have been Neil Diamond-informed, actually: https://youtu.be/7iosnvKSBIo

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 10 September 2020 21:54 (one year ago) link

what kind of voice would slide better into these layers of sound?

I get exactly the style of vocal he's aiming for and it one that would fit very well with the music, and most of his instincts regarding vocal phrasing and dynamics are very good ones - but he just doesn't have the skill to pull it off, and always somehow sounds like he's simultaneously making too much and not enough effort.

chap, Friday, 11 September 2020 09:13 (one year ago) link

It's an odd voice. It's like an angry late teen and a scared 8 year old in the same body.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 11 September 2020 09:35 (one year ago) link

agreed, it's so perfect

Doctor Casino, Friday, 11 September 2020 12:36 (one year ago) link

corroded Gordon Gano

Chris L, Friday, 11 September 2020 13:17 (one year ago) link

e only sd-era b-side i'd want on the album is "whir," and god knows it doesn't fit and is perfect where it is on pisces iscariot

"Whir" really is a gem.

Sam Weller, Friday, 11 September 2020 13:28 (one year ago) link

That makes sense about Flood btw, Brad.

The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Friday, 11 September 2020 13:37 (one year ago) link

tried to post this yesterday but got shut out by my "you're wasting too much time on fun stuff" browser plugin ---- i do agree there's a point after which billy's voice stops being an asset. for me it's noticeable on some of Adore and a huge problem on the less "lush" tracks of Machina. as some of you have already touched on (and which i think we got into in detail on one of the ballot poll threads?), it's a combination of a changed singing style, a different way of mixing his vocals, and the changing sound of the band overall. for whatever reason it doesn't bother me on the MCIS tracks where this greater prominence is already happening, but maybe it's also that i've sort of phased out listening to the most abrasive tracks on that album anyway.

Doctor Casino, Friday, 11 September 2020 15:18 (one year ago) link

Corgan’s vox are awesome on “Frail & Bedazzled”—his voice is given that flat, dry treatment and slid into the middle of the mix (also great when everything else drops out, leaving just his vocal).

Helps that it’s a kick-a$$ song!

Can Butch Vig not do "dynamimcs"? (morrisp), Friday, 11 September 2020 23:45 (one year ago) link

you could maybe cut idk one song from SD, if you had to, but more than that and it'd be diminished in grandeur no matter what the songs were.

This gets at the core at what makes this album so mercurial and distinctive, while at the same time imho only decent & not-great: it's an album with, like, eight beating hearts

more haim than good (Drugs A. Money), Saturday, 12 September 2020 23:16 (one year ago) link

The Core, The Eight-Beating Hearts Music...

"...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 12 September 2020 23:18 (one year ago) link

been thinking about this and can’t help but believing J. Mascis would crush the vox dept

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, 13 September 2020 06:03 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

I'm a bit of a Butch Vig sceptic but I'm listening to Mayonaise on a different setup (ftr: laptop/my boys' flash new speaker) and goddamn I can really hear just how fucking awesome Jimmy Chamberlin's drums sound.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 13 November 2020 20:44 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

"Sliverfuck" 100% rules

DJP, Wednesday, 9 December 2020 20:47 (one year ago) link

Yup. And the insane/insanely longer live versions even more so.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 9 December 2020 20:55 (one year ago) link

I love how “Mogwai Fear Satan” is kinda like a drawn out “Silverfuck” jam. Better guitar/drum sounds on SD, tho.

brimstead, Wednesday, 9 December 2020 21:22 (one year ago) link

seven months pass...

File under 'things I did not expect'

https://fruit-bats.bandcamp.com/album/siamese-dream

Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 July 2021 04:25 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

Every so often, like now, I get into a mode where nothing else really sounds good to me except Siamese Dream, and I listen to it over & over. I can't really account for it -- I'm not much of a Pumpkins fan otherwise these days; I was lukewarm on this album for decades; I don't particularly vibe with the lyrics, or even many of the musical stylings; and I'm not generally into big rock albums that were Painstakingly Produced for Perfection and recorded over months (instead of weeks)... yet somehow it doesn't feel like that. It's like the band & Vig pulled off an impossible balance, making the album "just right" without it sounding too deliberate or overpolished... an impressively shiny & fearsome artifact that retains a human touch, real immediacy (and awesome drumming).

Somehow it's still "revealing itself" to me after all this time; or maybe it's just now clicking w/me because I've dropped aesthetic baggage of my own that was keeping me from appreciating it? (I dunno). Either way, it's quite a thing.

slide into my KMFDMs (morrisp), Sunday, 24 July 2022 05:05 (three weeks ago) link

It's funny--I *was* a super-fan up through (but cracks showing at) 'MCIS'. And yet I feel similarly about 'Siamese Dream' (and the b-sides collected on 'Pisces Iscariot' + "Drown"). It has no relationship to any music I like from before or sfter it, and is conceptually a type of album I'd disdain. But for all of the "fan" baggage that fell away hard a quarter century ago, it still sinks its hooks in me if I happen to hear it.

It somehow manages to be the album equivalent of some big CGI-laden self-serious action extravaganza starring some in-real-life repelant schmuck that nevertheless actually is thrilling and engrossing. It's totally uncool, and almost cool for it (accidentally).

Soundslike, Sunday, 24 July 2022 07:02 (three weeks ago) link

I think I agree with all this. I'm not really a Pumpkins fan either and basically own two albums (including MCIS) and a homemade "best of" CD-R covering 1991-2000. MCIS doesn't come close to sustaining it's enormous run time and I rapidly lose interest in the CD-R when it gets through the back half. Siamese Dream is really the only one I can enjoy all the way through.

birdistheword, Sunday, 24 July 2022 14:09 (three weeks ago) link

Siamese Dream is really the only one I can enjoy all the way through.

For me it's Gish, but though consistent, it doesn't have any of their really great songs.
If brevity was all that was needed to make a great Pumpkins record, Shiny and Oh So Bright, Vol. 1 / LP: No Past. No Future. No Sun would be their masterpiece, but it's the worst.

Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 24 July 2022 15:39 (three weeks ago) link

This bump seems like a good excuse to play one of my favorites from this decade again.

the future is now, Monday, 25 July 2022 00:31 (three weeks ago) link

The one I can enjoy all the way through is Adore - I've not entirely been able to work out why that is. It goes on an age (mind you so do the two around it) and has a lot of slow stuff which I don't quite think is them (or Billy at least) playing to their strengths but unlike their other 91-00 albums I'm generally unlikely to want to skip anything.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 25 July 2022 19:25 (three weeks ago) link

I don't think it's odd that Adore is well regarded by many Pumpkins fans. It's my favourite too, it has a serene vibe that they never had reached before or since.

braised cod, Monday, 25 July 2022 20:29 (three weeks ago) link

I wouldn't identify as a Pumpkins fan, though. An Adore fan and a fan of certain songs from (or whole parts of) other albums, though.

you can see me from westbury white horse, Monday, 25 July 2022 20:49 (three weeks ago) link

A chin-stroking observation (after going back & forth a few times btw. the orig CD and the remaster): "Geek USA" is an even more interesting/complex song than "Silverfuck" - even though I think conventional wisdom would hold the opposite(?)

HIPPO violation (morrisp), Friday, 29 July 2022 17:04 (two weeks ago) link

Silverfuck has always been my least favourite SD-track. Too long, and just not a good as most of the other rockers on the album. Shares some weaknesses with Fuck You from MC.

Mule, Friday, 29 July 2022 19:10 (two weeks ago) link

Only makes sense as a live “indulgence song” really

assert (matttkkkk), Friday, 29 July 2022 20:00 (two weeks ago) link

They played it when I saw them in Oct. ‘91(?), before I had even heard Gish… I didn’t know the song, of course, but I remember Billy singing “I feel no pain…” over the bassline.

HIPPO violation (morrisp), Friday, 29 July 2022 20:48 (two weeks ago) link

One thing I’ll add is that when SD first came out, those are the two songs I least enjoyed… “Geek” sounded too tryhard-aggro and hookless to me, and “Silver” too much like, idk, Jane’s Addiction or something.

So I think learning to like/appreciate those songs was key, in terms of the whole album clicking with me… no more “second half, time to skip” syndrome.

HIPPO violation (morrisp), Saturday, 30 July 2022 16:45 (two weeks ago) link


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