― My name is Kenny, Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:10 (twenty years ago) link
― Nick A., Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:14 (twenty years ago) link
― blueski, Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:16 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:19 (twenty years ago) link
― Matt C., Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:35 (twenty years ago) link
hip-hop people reviewing bionix all saidit sucked. indie rock type people reviewingit said it was another classic from dela soul. those are the only people whoreviewed it.
― DK, Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:46 (twenty years ago) link
is STILL a really nice listen. if you take that song for face value away from the rest of the album, shows a real weird foreshadow of things Mo Wax/Beastie/Beck (mostly things I never cared too much for), but that weird international downtempo weird sample... it seemed to preface all that Cibo Matto/Stereolab/Stereototal (slow) modern rock-hop.
Not too big on De La Soul though; however, check this song out again if you haven't recently.
― gygax!, Thursday, 22 August 2002 19:59 (twenty years ago) link
― fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 22 August 2002 21:04 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 22 August 2002 21:25 (twenty years ago) link
― Nate Patrin, Friday, 23 August 2002 01:32 (twenty years ago) link
― B:Rad, Friday, 23 August 2002 02:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 23 August 2002 08:33 (twenty years ago) link
― matt riedl (veal), Friday, 23 August 2002 14:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Friday, 23 August 2002 14:26 (twenty years ago) link
I played "Tryin'" before my brother's wedding a couple months ago, just to calm my nerves on a stressful day, and I damn near started to weep. The song is about being ready for the rest of your life, by guys obviously not ready for the rest of their lives.
All the records are great, but De La is greater than ever.
― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 23 August 2002 19:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 August 2002 19:22 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 August 2002 19:28 (twenty years ago) link
― blueski, Friday, 23 August 2002 19:31 (twenty years ago) link
― Vinnie (vprabhu), Friday, 23 August 2002 20:09 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 24 August 2002 21:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 August 2002 22:21 (twenty years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 24 August 2002 22:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Josh (Josh), Saturday, 24 August 2002 23:40 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 25 August 2002 12:12 (twenty years ago) link
The Twin Cities hereby cast all their votes for "classic."
― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Sunday, 25 August 2002 13:56 (twenty years ago) link
I'd swear there's a thread around here about mature hip-hop that I might have even started but I can't find it.
― Josh (Josh), Sunday, 25 August 2002 14:17 (twenty years ago) link
― Keith Harris (kharris1128), Sunday, 25 August 2002 14:20 (twenty years ago) link
notions, soothed the mood
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 17:29 (fourteen years ago) link
the first album kicks the 2nd's ass 8 ways to tuesday
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 17:31 (fourteen years ago) link
"'De La Soul is Dead' is a better album than '3 Feet High...'" is the worst CHALLENGING OPINION in music criti
― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 17:34 (fourteen years ago) link
three feet high and rising was the first hip-hop album i ever bought. buhloone mind state was the second. it would be cool to say bionix was the last one. but it wasn't. it was good, though. the slick rick one. 'held down.' 'bionix.' those other ones.
hip-hop people reviewing bionix all said it sucked. indie rock type people reviewing it said it was another classic from de la soul. those are the only people who reviewed it.
-- DK, Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:46 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Link
o.O
― and what, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:16 (fourteen years ago) link
i had a thing for making paper since papier-mache
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:16 (fourteen years ago) link
dude you were the one that told me 3 Ft High was dylan's first rap album
― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:17 (fourteen years ago) link
I heard De La Soul Is Dead in its entirety before I heard Three Feet High and Rising in its entirety, which is part of the reason why I hold this allegedly controversial CHALLENGING OPINION.
― HI DERE, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:20 (fourteen years ago) link
its totally not a challenging opinion wtf people - but buhloone mind state is better than both of them anyway
i say this as someone who has listed to those three albums more than anyone on this board im sure
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:26 (fourteen years ago) link
production on Buhloone is less unique than on 1st 2. They're all great. 2nd>>>1st>>>3rd.
― Granny Dainger, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:28 (fourteen years ago) link
buhloone mind state remains my pick too
― PappaWheelie V, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:29 (fourteen years ago) link
3>2>1
but theyre all great obv
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:31 (fourteen years ago) link
1st > 3rd > 2nd
this is what I assume of anyone who holds same
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:34 (fourteen years ago) link
lol no i had 3 feet around when it cam out it kinda marked my devolution from someone who just listened to the radio and had a few albums to a music obsessive. i remember seeing the video for me myself and i on bet at a friends house and being all wtf is this must have! then dead was the last tape i had before i got a cd player. i taped ringringring off the radio before the album came out and was all wtf at the new sound but it grew on me fast. then when buhloon came out it was just <3<3<3
3 feet is nice but they got sooo much better at everything
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:55 (fourteen years ago) link
I pretty much agree with this.
― HI DERE, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 18:59 (fourteen years ago) link
so do I. 1st and 2nd are both more "fun" (having guru guest on a track will do that, though har har). 3rd I guess a lil TOO good ie refined.
― Granny Dainger, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link
(tho i guess having biz guest cancels out guru)
― Granny Dainger, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:06 (fourteen years ago) link
omglol i am watching de la videos on youtube omg!
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:11 (fourteen years ago) link
http://static1.videosift.com/thumbs/d/el/De_La_Soul_Me_Myself_And_I.jpg
this hair whaaaa!
― jhøshea, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:13 (fourteen years ago) link
2>4>1=3
― jaxon, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:14 (fourteen years ago) link
For a long time I wrote off the AOI Bionix lps, but on repeat listen I think they are tight. I saw them perform at DEMF in 01 and they were great.
― U-Haul, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:15 (fourteen years ago) link
they got better at smooth jazz soul jams. but the 1st album is alive in a way those that follow are not and it's got the best wordplay by far. also, i like hippies and the color yellow.
― gabbneb, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:16 (fourteen years ago) link
Buhloone Mind State is better than the first two. It's like desert island material.
― Euler, Wednesday, 16 April 2008 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link
I remember the take being “Didn’t these guys used to be funny? This album’s kinda depressing…”
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:28 (one month ago) link
You refer to is Dead, right?
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:29 (one month ago) link
Yes.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:30 (one month ago) link
Yeah, I remember the reviews being, like, “why are they such boring sourpusses now”, which seems like a mystifying take on a record as full of wonder and complexity as DLSID
Buhloone is also one of my favourites of all time but I still wish Three Days Later and Ego Trip went on a bit longer!
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:33 (one month ago) link
Mercy!
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:34 (one month ago) link
Unrelatedly and dorkishly, my IRL name is Paul and I had “Paul’s Revenge” as my answering machine message for perhaps much longer than I should have (‘whatever you say, I agree”)
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:38 (one month ago) link
I was curious about the negative reviews - here are two FWIW:
Bill Wyman in the Chicago Reader for Buhloone Mindstate (which placed at #8 for that year's Pazz & Jop poll)https://chicagoreader.com/arts-culture/de-la-soul-a-tribe-called-quest/
"It’s another exposition of pulverized pop, but with side trips into drones, weird jazz, and other sorts of less-than-compelling sonic dreamscapes. It also contains a lyrical universe that’s beyond this willing listener’s ken, which is a nice way of saying I haven’t the faintest idea what the fuck they’re talking about."
And in Trouser Press's guide, written by David Sheridan and/or Steven Mirkin:
https://trouserpress.com/reviews/de-la-soul/
On De La Soul Is Dead, as on the Beastie Boys’ Paul’s Boutique, the band’s ambition outstrips its ideas. The feeble, forced skits that dot the album fall flat, and many of the songs can be heard as a reaction to criticism that De La Soul was soft. Unlike “Do as De La Does” (from 3 Feet High and Rising), where the group puts itself in a leadership position, songs like “Afro Connections at a Hi 5 (In the Eyes of the Hoodlum)” and “Millie Pulled a Pistol on Santa” hew closer to rap convention, with harder-edged lyrics and sound. The album’s not bad, but it lacks some of the qualities that made the debut unique.
Superficially, Buhlööne Mind State is a return to form. While it does resemble the first album, there’s a pro forma air to the proceedings that even guests like Fred Wesley and Maceo Parker can’t allay; the sound is in the house, but the trio’s once-profound inspiration has fled.
― birdistheword, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:52 (one month ago) link
It also contains a lyrical universe that’s beyond this willing listener’s ken, which is a nice way of saying I haven’t the faintest idea what the fuck they’re talking about."
oh like Wyman knew what Elvis Costello was talking about
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 19:57 (one month ago) link
no specific shade to any listed critics but i always took the in-its-time reaction to de la's mature work as condescending and at least racist-adjacent.i mean, everyone loved paul's boutique...
― “Cheeky cheeky!” she trills, nearly demolishing a roadside post (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 20:09 (one month ago) link
Buhloone's their most profound record imo. Not hard, complicated. The Native Tongues were falling apart and this is the record where they say that out loud.
― his cartoon heart expands, then he relaxes by smoking crack (stevie), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 20:12 (one month ago) link
Did everyone love PB on release?
i mean, everyone loved paul's boutique...
Not so sure about this. I loved it, was more of a fan than I had been of Licensed to Ill, but I don't remember reading many super-positive reviews.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 20:17 (one month ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul%27s_Boutique#Critical_reception
― “Cheeky cheeky!” she trills, nearly demolishing a roadside post (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 20:25 (one month ago) link
I recall the chapter entitled "Steely Dan: Understood as the Redemption of the White Negro - a conversation between Greg Tate and Vernon Reid" in Tate's Everything But the Burden features a digression about why critics didn't accept the change of direction on De La Soul Is Dead, though I don't remember the details.
― Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 20:28 (one month ago) link
Critics were pretty terrible about most early 90s rap classics.
― The Beatles were the first to popularize wokeism (President Keyes), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 20:45 (one month ago) link
De La Soul is dead got 5 mics in The Source the only review that mattered
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 20:46 (one month ago) link
I recall Paul's Boutique being savaged in rap reviews at the time. I know it's hardly the gold standard of rap criticism, but I remember a review in Yo! or Word Up! or one of those other glossy newsstand-type mags that said something to the effect of "even the title is wack"
― Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 22:13 (one month ago) link
Scrolling down fast I thought this was a lyric bc it started out like a brag
yeah, i grabbed all of the downloads at the time.just checked : they are all encoded at 320.
― omar little, Wednesday, 4 January 2023 22:24 (one month ago) link
*sample from Peg*
― his cartoon heart expands, then he relaxes by smoking crack (stevie), Wednesday, 4 January 2023 22:42 (one month ago) link
The PB wiki linked above:
"Contemporary reviews of Paul's Boutique were uniformly positive, with the production singled out for praise. ... Since Paul's Boutique was first released, its critical standing has improved significantly."
lol
It did sell disappointingly compared to Licensed to Ill (still now 5x more sold)
― maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:08 (one month ago) link
yeah iirc it was a critical fave but didn't shift those crazy teenage numbers like LTI
def remember my slightly older friend who worked at a record store and didn't like the first one RAVING about how amazing PB was
― sleeve, Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:10 (one month ago) link
I love PB yet remember the splat "Hey Ladies made as first single
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:20 (one month ago) link
IIRC there weren't many shows in support of Paul's Boutique - I'm sure that didn't help (and it's a shame because the live stuff that's available is great).
Also during their book tour, they made it clear that Capitol didn't give the album much promotion, preferring to pour their marketing dollars into Donny Osmond's new record. (They also mocked the record's video, with Ad-Rock calling it a "sexy funeral.")
― birdistheword, Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:22 (one month ago) link
"Shake Yr Rump" is one of the all-time great opening tracks, how did it not get released as a single
― Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:27 (one month ago) link
^^^
― sleeve, Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:27 (one month ago) link
It did weirdy lead off the Hey Ladies single and it had a video, so it kinda was?
https://www.discogs.com/release/1061910-Beastie-Boys-Love-American-Style-EP
― maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:29 (one month ago) link
PB was the end of them being part of the rap scene, moving towards their alt phase
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:35 (one month ago) link
I had the cassette version of that EP; it was sold as a cassingle (the last two tracks are instrumental versions of "Shake Your Rump" and "Hey Ladies").
― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 5 January 2023 00:50 (one month ago) link
There was some animus over the Beasties leaving Def Jam. I remember Chuck D dissing Paul’s Boutique.
― Motion to adjourn to enjoy a footling (President Keyes), Thursday, 5 January 2023 01:29 (one month ago) link
Chuck D even said, ‘The dirty secret among the Black hip hop community at the time of the release was that Paul’s Boutique had the best beats.”
― maf you one two (maffew12), Thursday, 5 January 2023 01:44 (one month ago) link
i do kinda remember rap people feeling a bit betrayed by PB but the rock critics fuckin loved it
― “Cheeky cheeky!” she trills, nearly demolishing a roadside post (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 5 January 2023 02:33 (one month ago) link
The 33 1/3 book is solid.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 5 January 2023 03:14 (one month ago) link
The version of The Magic Number that is now streaming is missing the Eddie Murphy sample. From the version on Spotify at least. Few people seem to have spotted it so far if Twitter is anything to go by.
― piscesx, Monday, 16 January 2023 04:31 (three weeks ago) link
it definitely sounds different than what i remember. the narrative for so long was "tommy boy is screwing them!" i never considered there would still be sample clearance issues. i mean that stuff was in print forever. hrmph.
still thrilled to see it actually happening.
― kiss me while the world decays (Austin), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:25 (two weeks ago) link
the narrative for so long was "tommy boy is screwing them!" i never considered there would still be sample clearance issues
two things are true in this case
i do believe that the language in some deals was related to the specific formats at the time (lp, cassette, etc) and that you may have to re-clear stuff for streaming, but i'm no lawyer
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 16:28 (two weeks ago) link
As someone who worked in clearance (albeit not in music) I can say that one of the major hangups for a lot of late 80s/early 90s agreements was how understandably there was no anticipation of the possibility of digital and online usage, and how some documents didn’t include the all-encompassing part where they cited any and all future media usage as being covered.
― omar little, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:15 (two weeks ago) link
Yeah, like why they had to remove or re-clear the music used in MTV shows, etc.
― Vexatious litigant (morrisp), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:25 (two weeks ago) link
I had to license a song for a video my school produced for a faculty member - my first exposure to licensing - and the guy I dealt with was nice enough to walk me through it. IIRC he said you typically want "all world" (every territory and country) and most importantly "all media" and I think that became the standard term in the digital age in anticipation of downloads, streaming and everything else.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:26 (two weeks ago) link
I think you actually want something like "all media, whether now known or hereafter devised"...
― Vexatious litigant (morrisp), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:33 (two weeks ago) link
Just listened on youtube, and yep, no one asks if anyone in the audience ever got hit by a car. I don't know the intricacies of sample clearance -- specifically, why some artists are easier to clear than others -- but it's a little surprising that they were able to clear Zeppelin but not Eddie Murphy. And if this missing bit is representative of the rest of the album, I assume "Cool Breeze On The Rocks" will sound a LOT different.
I believe it was a late '90s Mojo piece about this album where I read that Tommy Boy had repeatedly assured the band and Prince Paul (who kept meticulous notes on the samples) that all the samples were cleared. Some were -- I think Hall & Oates and a handful of others -- but most weren't. So they were blindsided by the Turtles lawsuit.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:37 (two weeks ago) link
oh yeah I remember reading that - in general I've never heard anything good about Tommy Boy
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:43 (two weeks ago) link
It can be ridiculous. There was some show Carol Burnett was in where she needed to clear a Stephen Sondheim song, and she (and Sondheim) thought it would be easy because they were good friends. However it was something Sondheim co-wrote with a now deceased person, and when Sondheim contacted the publisher, they apparently just said "you only own half the rights, we need to talk to the estate of the other writer" etc. Forgot what happened afterwards but long story short, the more approvals you need, the more it sucks.
There was an article on Dylan licensing his music to films (before he sold his catalog) and it was easy - Dylan gets the proposal and either he likes it or doesn't, and he wouldn't price the license out of the film's budget which is why some films with less-than-huge budgets got to use Dylan songs. He was the only guy who had to sign off.
― birdistheword, Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:55 (two weeks ago) link
Weird that the lyric video got the Syl Johnson sample wrong, 'shang-a-lang'? With an accent maybe, idk.
― MaresNest, Thursday, 19 January 2023 18:17 (two weeks ago) link
sadly the chances that we'll ever see the De La Soul on WKRP in Cincinnati episode are almost nil
― POLIZISTEN VERSINKEN IM SCHLAMM (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 19 January 2023 18:43 (two weeks ago) link
I always heard it as "shang a lang" but I never heard the original source until moments ago despite it being sampled to death.
In the video it says "a tri-camaro system is now set", which is kind of amazing, but it made me realize that I don't know what the actual original lyric is. All the online lyrics sites have something like "A tri-camera rolls since our music's now set" listed, but for the last 34 years I thought they were saying "a tricameral system", like three governing bodies.
― joygoat, Thursday, 19 January 2023 19:20 (two weeks ago) link
Re: birdistheword
I thought licensing songs to films was primarily under the purview of most artists themselves and not their publishers. The Beastie Boys were infamous for being very particular about what films they allowed to utilize their songs. David Bowie wanted very large sums of money. He was probably one of the first artists to ask for six figures or more. Kate Bush, conversely, let Keith Gordon use “Running Up That Hill” for $1500 or so for The Chocolate War (1988), and it’s amazingly remained there on every home video release
― beamish13, Thursday, 19 January 2023 19:48 (two weeks ago) link
I thought licensing songs to films was primarily under the purview of most artists themselves and not their publishers.
I think it depends on a few things including, but not limited to, the relationship of the artist to their publisher, and whether or not the artist actually owns and controls their own publishing, and who controls the masters.
In 2011 a TV show wanted to use "Who Are You," but Universal wanted $150,000 -- totaling $300,000, because the same amount has to be paid to both the artist (for the song publishing) and Universal (for rights to the master). But if the show's producers went to Townshend directly, whatever price Townshend set determined the cost. In this instance, Pete watched some episodes of the show, read a synopsis of the episode, and said "How about $7500?" So the show got "Who Are You" for $15,000 which is apparently dirt cheap.
And based on Joe Pera Reads The Church Announcements, I assume a similar deal was struck between that show's producers and Townshend/Universal, because I doubt Joe Pera had a budget approaching six figures for an entire season.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 19 January 2023 20:37 (two weeks ago) link
Was that Louis CK's Louie? Terrible man, but that scene was hilarious.
― his cartoon heart expands, then he relaxes by smoking crack (stevie), Thursday, 19 January 2023 22:29 (two weeks ago) link
De La Soul Is Dead reissues (cd, 2lp, cassette) drop April 7.
I only see black vinyl for now, unlike the 5 variations for 3 Feet.
― ⓓⓡ (Johnny Fever), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:10 (four days ago) link
sucks it took so long to get "The Magic Number" up on streaming. It was played over the closing credits of the Spiderman movie in 2021 and those Marvel movies are big awareness drivers for older songs.
― INDEPENDENTS DAY BY STEVEN SPILBERG (President Keyes), Friday, 3 February 2023 16:27 (four days ago) link