the WAYNE SHORTER thread

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Been jamming a lot of Schizophrenia lately, and have always wanted to check out Super Nova. Don't know much else. Let's call this a S&D thread, shall we?

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Thursday, 21 October 2010 23:09 (nine years ago) link

Super Nova is GREAT.

Katy Lied, Lady Died (Hurting 2), Thursday, 21 October 2010 23:10 (nine years ago) link

the all seeing eye!

not everything is a campfire (ian), Thursday, 21 October 2010 23:10 (nine years ago) link

I mean the classic Blue Note shit is great -- esp JuJu and Speak No Evil

If you can stomach a slight touch of smooth jazz, Native Dancer has amazing moments

Of course there's also Weather Report, all the records he did with the 60s Miles Quintet, etc.

Katy Lied, Lady Died (Hurting 2), Thursday, 21 October 2010 23:13 (nine years ago) link

As an aside, I always loved that in most record store jazz sections it went:

Bobby Short
Wayne Shorter

Katy Lied, Lady Died (Hurting 2), Friday, 22 October 2010 00:33 (nine years ago) link

I'm not a huge fan, but I've tried to do some in-depth listening in the past year or two. The All Seeing Eye is a great one, and his last two on Verve - Alegria and Footprints Live - are really pretty terrific; much more abstract than you might expect from a dude his age.

Born In A Test Tube, Raised In A Cage (unperson), Friday, 22 October 2010 01:15 (nine years ago) link

Also his solo on "Aja"!

dr. phil, Friday, 22 October 2010 02:33 (nine years ago) link

Super Nova is astounding. Everyone I've played it for says the exact same thing: "THAT'S Wayne Shorter?!" Same thing with the Miles' It's About That Time Fillmore East set.

Sterling-Kinney (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 22 October 2010 03:43 (nine years ago) link

super nova is totally astonishing, get it asap

some droopy HOOS in makeup (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 22 October 2010 03:55 (nine years ago) link

Just bought it - found it cheap on Amazon - thanks!

If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Friday, 22 October 2010 04:43 (nine years ago) link

pretty much everything this guy did in the 60s is essential, from the the jazz messengers to the solo blue note stuff to the miles quintet. not sure how he found the time to do all of that, and keep it at such a high level of quality. i still haven't entirely fallen for weather report, etc., but i imagine it'll click with me one day.

tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 14:58 (nine years ago) link

He didn't really do much of that concurrently; he left the Messengers to go with Miles, and there were several long stretches of inactivity in Miles' group. Williams and Hancock put out a bunch of Blue Notes around the same time (and Williams' Spring and Life Time are sick).

Son of Sisyphus of Reaganing (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 22 October 2010 16:58 (nine years ago) link

hey, i am really fucking stoked for this thread, assholes.

i know all the miles stuff and a lot of the weather report stuff, and i too have been wearing out my copy of schizophrenia, the only WS solo record i have. cant wait to check out more from these recommendations.

69, Friday, 22 October 2010 17:05 (nine years ago) link

FWIW I never cared that much about his stuff with the Messengers. I think it was probably a good training ground but not really the right vehicle for his more contemplative and bittersweet style.

Bobby Short, Wayne Shorter (Hurting 2), Friday, 22 October 2010 17:07 (nine years ago) link

xpost, yeah, he wasn't doing all that stuff at the same time, just saying he had a busy, supremely creative decade!

tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 17:07 (nine years ago) link

re: the messengers, some of that stuff is great -- mosaic, free for all, in partic.

tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 17:07 (nine years ago) link

night dreamer is a really great album

S Beez Wit the Remedy (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 October 2010 17:09 (nine years ago) link

I think he might be the most underrated jazz composer in a way -- I mean not literally, b/c there's probably someone much less known who's more underrated as a composer, but among the giants you always hear people talk about the compositions of Miles, Mingus, Coltrane, Monk. Shorter belongs in the same breath, I think.

Bobby Short, Wayne Shorter (Hurting 2), Friday, 22 October 2010 17:13 (nine years ago) link

hey, i am really fucking stoked for this thread, assholes.

Please! Douchebags, if you don't mind.

Unfrozen Caveman Board-Lawyer (WmC), Friday, 22 October 2010 17:15 (nine years ago) link

xpost, yeah, he wasn't doing all that stuff at the same time, just saying he had a busy, supremely creative decade!

― tylerw, Friday, October 22, 2010 1:07 PM (32 minutes ago)

re: the messengers, some of that stuff is great -- mosaic, free for all, in partic.

― tylerw, Friday, October 22, 2010 1:07 PM (31 minutes ago)

Ah, got it...he was active, but with a minimum of juggling (mental image of Wayne juggling on stage behind Miles soloing) and a ridiculous level of consistent brilliance. Never actually heard his work with the Messengers...must check out.

Son of Sisyphus of Reaganing (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 22 October 2010 17:47 (nine years ago) link

yeah -- i mean, a lot of jazz dudes played a lot of sessions/gigs in the 60s, but Shorter was writing the bulk of the original compositions for blakey, miles, his solo stuff, and a lot of those songs are pretty classic.

tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 17:51 (nine years ago) link

Definitely. I think Wayne contributed more compositions to Miles studio work during that time than any other composer...it's a shame more of those weren't played live, though (save "Footprints" and "Masqualero").

Son of Sisyphus of Reaganing (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 22 October 2010 17:56 (nine years ago) link

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/arts/music/24shor.html
Small and cheery, dressed in I'm-not-going-outside-today clothes and bedroom slippers, Mr. Shorter struggled to set up his Krell home-theater pre-amp to play a CD. I was forming a suspicion that he didn't often listen to music. "Hey, man, the Krell: you ever see the movie 'Forbidden Planet'?" he asked. "There was this planet full of people called the Krells. The explorers from Earth didn't see anybody when they arrived. But they all went to sleep one night in their spacecraft, and you hear the first sound of special effects that really came to the fore in movies - this Chrrmmm! Chroooom! And you see the ground that's been depressed by huge footprints. ..."
i like this interview

tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 17:56 (nine years ago) link

yeah sort of seems like a lot of those tunes on the miles records were only played once -- during the recording session!

tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 17:57 (nine years ago) link

I don't think I've ever heard a bad Art Blakey album. But I've never listened to anything after Shorter left the group; all the discs I have are from the mid '50s to the mid '60s. It's very possible they became ordinary/pedestrian in the '70s and '80s.

Born In A Test Tube, Raised In A Cage (unperson), Friday, 22 October 2010 18:28 (nine years ago) link

yeah, you can rarely go wrong w/ blakey - though, yeah, i haven't heard much past 1966 or so. the latest one that was knocking me out was Ugetsu.

tylerw, Friday, 22 October 2010 18:37 (nine years ago) link

seven months pass...

Finally getting around to Alegria and Beyond the Sound Barrier -- really good! He does an amazing job of not retreading old ground for a musician at such a point in such a career.

When I was a senior in high school the school jazz band got to "open" for Wayne once, and that same night his wife and niece were killed in a plane crash -- it's a really strange and horrible memory/association. He also had a daughter who died of a seizure in the 80s. I think about that a lot when I listen to his later music.

mississippi delta law grad (Hurting 2), Saturday, 18 June 2011 01:54 (eight years ago) link

one year passes...

Wow, "Introducing Wayne Shorter" is kind of an overlooked gem, no?

Also it's helping me complete my quest to identify all of the jazz that leonard lopate uses as tag music.

click here if you want to load them all (Hurting 2), Monday, 9 July 2012 21:33 (seven years ago) link

haven't heard "introducing," guess i should check it out!

tylerw, Monday, 9 July 2012 21:36 (seven years ago) link

You add up the Blue Note records that Wayne Shorter, Tony Williams and Herbie Hancock did during the time they were playing with Miles - that has to be one of the more productive periods for any band in any genre.

What's killer about Wayne Shorter's records is that you pretty much just swap parts in Coltrane's quartet on them. Speak No Evil, Juju and Night Dreamer are all amazing ESPECIALLY Speak No Evil, which is as good an any of those jazz records.

I love the 2nd quintet Miles Davis records, but I think Speak No Evil (and really also Maiden Voyage) are just as good as the best stuff that group did.

I'm also a fan of Weather Report although Wayne Shorter did less and less writing in that group deferring to Joe Zawinal as it went on as a composer.

earlnash, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 03:51 (seven years ago) link

xp It's really nice stuff -- Lee Morgan, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers and Jimmy Cobb. Very much a standard hard-bop record in sound but with Shorter's compositional nuances and distinct phrasing. Recorded the same year as Kind of Blue. Overall the band showcases Shorter much better than the Jazz Messengers did -- I always thought he was too introspective and that band called for a bigger, more brash tenor player, but I guess Blakey knew talent.

click here if you want to load them all (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 03:58 (seven years ago) link

What's killer about Wayne Shorter's records is that you pretty much just swap parts in Coltrane's quartet on them. Speak No Evil, Juju and Night Dreamer are all amazing ESPECIALLY Speak No Evil, which is as good an any of those jazz records.

That's true, and his tunes interestingly get a fairly different sound and feel out of the same band. Like you can't picture coltrane on those tunes, it's really Wayne's band on those records.

click here if you want to load them all (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 04:01 (seven years ago) link

one year passes...

Native Dancer is such a dope record

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Friday, 16 August 2013 15:08 (six years ago) link

favorite record of all time material

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Friday, 16 August 2013 15:35 (six years ago) link

What did you guys think of Without a Net? I've been enjoying it this year. I feel like I'm still getting into it but that it's because there's a lot there.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 16 August 2013 16:52 (six years ago) link

there's a lot there yeah but oh man the quality of those performances

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Friday, 16 August 2013 16:59 (six years ago) link

i've never listened to native dancer, which is shameful. i'll fix that.

tylerw, Friday, 16 August 2013 17:00 (six years ago) link

Without a Net and all of the recent quartet stuff is good but heavy listening. I think it's the kind of thing where I'd really like to see it live and just let myself enter the music fully, which is hard for me to do at home these days.

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Friday, 16 August 2013 17:04 (six years ago) link

i've never listened to native dancer, which is shameful. i'll fix that.

welcome to the cool island steely dan record you never knew you needed

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Friday, 16 August 2013 17:07 (six years ago) link

otm

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Friday, 16 August 2013 17:08 (six years ago) link

plus it's a great gateway to milton nascimiento, so for day 2 on cool island you can check out Clube Da Esquina

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Friday, 16 August 2013 17:10 (six years ago) link

yeah, i mean, i love both nascimiento and shorter, just never got to this one. music is magic.

tylerw, Friday, 16 August 2013 17:11 (six years ago) link

I just finished Michelle Mercer's Footprints: The Life and Work of Wayne Shorter, which is a good quick read ... he comes across as kind of a spaceman, but a super nice guy

in addition to his Blue Note and Weather Report albums, Footprints prompted me to play some of the Jazz Messenger records, which are awesome

High Life from 1995 was another discovery ... the compositions are not as striking as his earlier work, but I love the orchestral arrangements

Brad C., Friday, 16 August 2013 17:56 (six years ago) link

The AMG description of Native Dancer sounds great. Definitely sounds different from Without a Net (which I also find to be 'heavy listening')!

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 16 August 2013 18:06 (six years ago) link

(I'm playing dumb a little btw. I know and love some Weather Report and earlier Shorter like Speak No Evil and obv the electric Miles stuff.)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 16 August 2013 18:07 (six years ago) link

Native Dancer is definitely a go-to summer album

Brad C., Friday, 16 August 2013 18:08 (six years ago) link

The Without a Net quartet stuff -- it's not that it's hard to listen to in the sense of being gratingly dissonant, it's more like it has this elaborate, challenging to follow narrative that requires a lot of attention.

#fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Friday, 16 August 2013 18:12 (six years ago) link

Having seen that band live, and listened to all the 2000s-era live and studio albums (Footprints Live, Alegría, Beyond the Sound Barrier, Without a Net), I can safely say that any "narrative" is entirely listener-imposed. Those guys are wandering. The fact that they make it compelling speaks to the amazing collective talent onstage, but that is one of the free-est, most up-for-grabs bands in jazz right now, and I don't think any one of 'em knows where any of the other three (especially Shorter) may decide to take the music a minute into the future.

誤訳侮辱, Friday, 16 August 2013 18:15 (six years ago) link

Ha, wow, is Native Dancer ever a different ballgame. Probably what I'll need while packing today.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Friday, 16 August 2013 18:19 (six years ago) link

eight months pass...

man, you know what's great? motto grosso feio is great

emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Sunday, 11 May 2014 04:46 (five years ago) link

three years pass...

^^^^Been on a shorter kick over the last few days, listening to it for the first time now. Can concur that it’s wonderful.

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 01:47 (one year ago) link

There’s something almost cosmic for me about the fact that he’s a common thread between the Miles Davis quintet, my favorite Steely Dan récord, Joni Mitchell and Milton Nascimento, not to mention art Blakey and Brian blade.

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 01:56 (one year ago) link

Timely thread--just finished his biography. What a weirdo / genius / original. I recommend the book to anyone with even a passing interest in the guy. It's an authorized bio, so not a lot of "dirt" and occasionally borders on hagiography, but if anyone deserves sainthood it's Wayne so it didn't bother me much

Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 03:00 (one year ago) link

what's it called? I'd love to give it a read

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 05:04 (one year ago) link

Footprints: The Life & Work of Wayne Shorter, by Michelle Mercer. Hope you enjoy it!

favorite part: learning that, as a kid, Wayne created his own sci-fi comic book (there are a few pics of this too!)

Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 11:10 (one year ago) link

any revive that inspires me to dig out Adam's Apple is a good 'un.

calzino, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 11:21 (one year ago) link

xp to PP thanks, will give it a read, for sure

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 17 March 2018 16:14 (one year ago) link

two weeks pass...

I'm still deep in a Shorter bender, and finding 'etc.' an incredibly strong album, easily as good as any other of his BN releases of the time.

To my ears it's the most Coltrane-like record he ever cut, with a very lean quartet and some Trane-inspired sounds on stuff like the title cut and 'Indian Song'.

It's another testament to the embarrassment of riches that Blue Note amassed that they could leave it in the can for over a decade before it was released and more or less forgotten about until the digital era.

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 5 April 2018 18:29 (one year ago) link

TY for getting me to dig out my copy of Etcetera... and Adam's Apple, which I remembered as also being a leanish traneish quartet rec - and indeed, virtually the same group - Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Joe Chambers, and either Cecil McBee (Etc) or Reggie Workman (AA) on bass. Chambers is a really interesting drummer I think, and his separateness from Elvin Jones does distinguish these albs, or help make them v. much their own good thing.

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 5 April 2018 19:10 (one year ago) link

Thanks, I just happened to listen to Juju, Speak No Evil (still my favorite by far), and the Soothsayer yesterday. Never heard Etcetera until now.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2018 20:40 (one year ago) link

What’s the story of him and his favorite movies again, that he’s watched The Red Shoes about 100 times?

Rudy’s Mood For Dub (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 April 2018 21:48 (one year ago) link

The drumming on the title cut of Et Cetera has a hell of a lot more to do with Spanish Key than Elvin Jones - it's kind of amazing that way- very propulsive but with a light touch. I've listened to it over and over in the last few days alone...

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 5 April 2018 22:20 (one year ago) link

'Barracudas' is great, I love Joe Chambers' playing. Speaking of which, The Almoravid is on Spotify, so that's my next stop. Such a crazy record. The first track sounds like M'Boom meets Steve Reich, which basically means it sounds like Tortoise. Breaking 4/4 down into all kinds of 7s and 9s in a really cool way.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 5 April 2018 22:29 (one year ago) link

oh man, thanks for the Chambers tip, I'll be playing this in short order.

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 5 April 2018 23:51 (one year ago) link

ok want to give many thanks to you Jordan for the Chambers album. so very, very good.

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 6 April 2018 18:02 (one year ago) link

Cool! It really is a special one.

Fun to hear Richard Davis on electric bass too.

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 6 April 2018 18:44 (one year ago) link

five months pass...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/12/arts/music/wayne-shorter-emanon.html

You’re fond of talking about eternity, and the need to recognize how fleeting and comparatively inconsequential our current moment is. How do you use music to connect with what’s beyond the moment?

To me, a song is not finished. To me, there’s no such thing as a finished anything. All of Beethoven’s nine symphonies, to me, are one. I think of it as having no beginning and no end. Do you know that it took Beethoven eight years to get the first several notes of the second movement of his Fifth Symphony together? So it was no deity that went through him and said, “O.K., genius!” You’ve got to challenge inspiration not yet begun to come out. There’s all kinds of closets, you know.

You hear about people saying, “You gotta get things fast because you only live once.” I think that’s a misnomer right there. Words like “only,” “never,” and all that, they’re crutches. We have to have people who are willing to — I don’t want to say it like this but — go down with the ship. Don’t worry about wealth and fame and all that stuff. It’s up to the person who’s being creative to find ways to emerge and shake up the world of wealth. And we have to do it ourselves. Want to change this stuff? Let’s change it ourselves. It’s like Miles Davis said: “Don’t you ask nobody for nothin’.”

j., Saturday, 15 September 2018 05:23 (one year ago) link

I'm not really interested in the accompanying graphic novel/concept stuff, but his new epic treble album is sounding pretty great on first listen.

calzino, Saturday, 15 September 2018 09:42 (one year ago) link

The 4 part suite for quartet and chamber orchestra bit of this album has grown on me a lot, haven't even got around to the other 2 discs yet. But the band includes Danilo Perez, so that should be good.

calzino, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 08:32 (one year ago) link

"As an aside, I always loved that in most record store jazz sections it went:

Bobby Short
Wayne Shorter"

hah!

calzino, Saturday, 22 September 2018 10:27 (one year ago) link

LOL

Of course, a REALLY good jazz rec shop would go

Bobby Short
Alan Shorter

Ward Fowler, Saturday, 22 September 2018 10:59 (one year ago) link

Poor Alan had to live in the shadow of a ridiculously talented younger sibling and then died relatively young.

calzino, Saturday, 22 September 2018 12:35 (one year ago) link

Both of Alan's albums, Orgasm and Tes Esat, are really good and worth hearing - and they're both on Spotify.

grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 22 September 2018 13:17 (one year ago) link

five months pass...

When @milesdavis and I talked, he would ask me a question. 'Hey Wayne -- do you ever get tired of playing music that sounds like music?' Before I answered him, he said, 'I know what you mean.' Like, he's answering his own question. 🕵️‍♀️👣💫

— Wayne Shorter (@Wayne_Shorter) March 13, 2019

omar little, Thursday, 14 March 2019 00:49 (eleven months ago) link

ten months pass...

Shorter's quartet may be one of the most extraordinary units I've ever heard. I truly cannot get enough of this music.

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 10 February 2020 23:21 (two weeks ago) link

absolute unit

j., Monday, 10 February 2020 23:37 (two weeks ago) link

As I said upthread, they really are one of the free-est bands in current jazz. They can and will go anywhere.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 10 February 2020 23:53 (two weeks ago) link

Has Shorter ever been on a bad record? Later Weather Report stuff maybe? I haven't heard anything I didn't like.

Brad C., Tuesday, 11 February 2020 00:05 (one week ago) link

I <3 Wayne Shorter so much

brimstead, Tuesday, 11 February 2020 00:09 (one week ago) link

Def one of the great bands of the early 21st century.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:57 (one week ago) link

Looking at his wiki discography, this was my guess for the worst record he's been on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swing_of_Delight

But now I'm listening, and it's kind of sick (Carlos Santana playing fantasy camp with Miles Davis' second classic quintet)

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 16:05 (one week ago) link

Is Brian Blade still in the band?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 February 2020 16:56 (one week ago) link

Supernova seems to be the one I go back to a lot, gorgeous album.

calzino, Tuesday, 11 February 2020 16:58 (one week ago) link

OMG I am a longtime STAN of Supernova. I wrote a thing about it for my college paper.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 17:06 (one week ago) link

Is Brian Blade still in the band?

Is Shorter even still playing? I know his health has been not great - he's much older than I thought he was- but last I heard he was working on a big composition project that seemed less to do with playing it himself. That said, the Blue Note movie where he and Herbie lead the band through Masqualero had him still sounding strong. Not sure when that was recorded. 4 years ago?

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 18:06 (one week ago) link

He played here last year, I think ...

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 February 2020 18:08 (one week ago) link

four years ago is when i last saw him, at that year's jazzfest, and he still sounded great. it was just him and herbie onstage, and they played an entirely improvised single-"song" set, it was astonishing and bent my mind permanently

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 18:10 (one week ago) link

i have spent the last four years hoping someone recorded in in its entirety but no dice. however i did just find this clip of it on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3agp0ejoGs

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 18:11 (one week ago) link

i was so depressed that weekend bc i was still reeling from a bad breakup the previous year and prince had just died and that set absolutely confirmed for me that music is the healing force of the universe

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 18:19 (one week ago) link

that was amazing

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 19:55 (one week ago) link


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