Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

how is he being manipulative in that out of context text message

Yeah, that came after the missing chunk, when the tone of the texts seemed to change.

I can't imagine Billy/William/Voldemort/whatever being too thrilled about having text messages leaked, so countdown until the inevitable interview where he once more comes across as a colossal prick over it all...

yeah that's exactly what i've been thinking, i fear it's inevitable

He's a dick that is friends with Alex Jones and it's ok to clown on him about wrestling.

i don't really care that much about this situation but fwiw when dudes have a history of being control freaks come in with a very defined self-serving agenda of what they want something to be, and you recognize that that's what they're doing (he wants BIG or nothing!) you can't really say they're being amenable or accommodating in the adjacent paragraph. he's predefined the situation around his needs and vision and shit, so how much wiggle/accommodation room does that actually leave for this creative or performing relationship? it is like the least surprising thing ever that somehow behind the scenes this would have fallen apart.

I think we've already established that he doesn't *need* her, he just (most cynically) knows her value. But she doesn't have much leverage in this battle, especially with, yeah, a known control freak and the band's visionary, as such.

but fwiw when dudes have a history of being control freaks come in with a very defined self-serving agenda of what they want something to be, and you recognize that that's what they're doing (he wants BIG or nothing!) you can't really say they're being amenable or accommodating in the adjacent paragraph.

Oh, please. the idea that Billy is somehow bullying D'arcy into getting together to practice and record for a worldwide arena rock tour and is being self-serving is just ridiculous. These are the terms that the four of them operated under when they were at their peak in the 90s. Given everything that has happened since 1999, and all the bad blood on both sides, his (private!) exchanges with D'arcy are amenable & accommodating. and keep in mind- we do not know the band's side of the story yet. there are huge texts of their exchanges missing.

To put it simply, I think Corgan is scared of failure and scared of becoming irrelevant, only that his definition of "irrelevance" isn't being consigned to small clubs, but rather anything which is less than what he perceives to be the "big leagues" ... This is why he clashed with the members of Zwan, this is why he revived the SP name at all costs, this is why he made Zeitgeist a "rock record" and why he tried to put together new line-ups that wouldn't question his vision. This is basically now also why D'arcy isn't reuniting with the Pumpkins - seems to me that while he recognises a tour with D'arcy would bring in quite a fair bit of revenue, he's also frightened that she'll fuck it up. The thing is, any line-up of the Pumpkins could probably play to numbers of people that would make plenty of unknown bands envious - but it seems Corgan just can't see it that way.

It's great to have Jimmy and Iha back in the line-up, but it still doesn't feel like a reunion, more a continuation of the Pumpkins' post-MACHINA phase. Melissa Auf Der Maur would have been a good choice as she was the bassist during the tail end of the Pumpkins' first run.

i didn't say he was bullying. my interpretation/best guess is that she, correctly, determined that his main priority was the gleaming dream in his own head of THE SMASHING PUMPKINS ARE BACK as the BIGGEST EVENT IN THE WORLD and that she was being invited in to serve that dream and not because he missed playing in a band with her or whatever, or was interested in what kind of version of the band she'd like to do or what kind of tour would be a good fit, it's all predetermined cause it's HIS band and he can set the terms and everyone else needs to either be down with them or they can walk. and that didn't appeal to her and she walked. this seems implausible?

maybe it happened completely differently than that but it's my occam's razor take and i don't personally need a special prosecutor to work on getting more txts or whatever. he has always sounded like a huge pain in the ass and so what needs extra explanation or more detail is when someone *does* agree to be in a band with him, imho.

Having said that - in close to two decades, D'arcy has been quite low profile - next to no public appearances, no music, no gigs... and to be fair, the news that has come through during that period has hardly been reassuring. Personally, I'd have reservations about whether she'd be up for doing an arena tour without at least having gone through a couple of weeks of rehearsals.

I have a hunch she was kinda a pain, too. Especially with drugs and other personal problems that could trouble a perfectionist. This is a guy that fired *Chamberlin*, who was far more essential.

Turrican completely otm

i didn't say he was bullying. my interpretation/best guess is that she, correctly, determined that his main priority was the gleaming dream in his own head of THE SMASHING PUMPKINS ARE BACK as the BIGGEST EVENT IN THE WORLD and that she was being invited in to serve that dream and not because he missed playing in a band with her or whatever, or was interested in what kind of version of the band she'd like to do or what kind of tour would be a good fit, it's all predetermined cause it's HIS band and he can set the terms and everyone else needs to either be down with them or they can walk. and that didn't appeal to her and she walked. this seems implausible?

Well, this isn't what happened. D'arcy has been posting on her (now inactive again facebook) and in comments on other sites and other peoples' threads how much she wanted to play with them and how much she wanted to be back in the band. there's no cunning strategy here, even though i agree with it & it's definitely something D'arcy might've done in the past. but whether or not that's true is irrelevant, D'arcy has been saying how disappointed she is. you don't need any more information than what she's already put out there.

cunning strategy? huh?

I don't think he ever wanted to fire Chamberlin, I think he just wanted to shock him into sobering up. As essential as he is to the classic Pumpkins sound, and as grounded as he is these days, in '93-'97 the guy was a fucking mess.

Another thing to keep in mind: the extent of D'arcy's mental health issues are unknown, and honestly I'd think far less of Billy if he roped her in purely out of cynicism knowing that she was not well-equipped enough to play live. so, again, Turrican otm

xp cunning strategy - D'arcy assessing the situation and going to the press before the announcement is even official

Like, the assessment that you think D'arcy made is smart & like I said probably correct. But I read all of the comments and things she posted and told BlastEcho & AlternativeNation. and she reiterated to fans multiple times how disappointed she was to be left out and how much she wanted to work with the band again.

As far as I'm aware, the band were issuing ultimatums to Chamberlin to sober up or fuck off as far back as the Siamese Dream sessions.

yeah Jimmy went missing during the recording of SD and the rest of the band actually got on the radio and issued a missing persons report on an alternative rock station. and then someone saw him at an R.E.M. gig.

anyway...

Working on transcribing the D'arcy interview, this is really something special!

— Alternative Nation (@AltNationNet) February 13, 2018

whoops, unintended question mark^

I don't think he ever wanted to fire Chamberlin, I think he just wanted to shock him into sobering up.

Well, yeah. They're the same thing. Seeing that Jonathan Melvoin *died* while shooting up heroin with Jimmy present, he didn't really have an alternative.

I do believe Billy genuinely wanted D'Arcy on board, not for revenue but to re-live the dream. It's ironic, or more very much in character of this band, that trying to arrange the reunion is going exactly as how things went before: with lots of frustration and pass-agg, nigh on impossible. It was ever thus.

It's all very unbecoming and ugly. That goes for Alternative Nation's role in this, too: dumping selected texts? Come on man.

This might be nagl, but: what happened to D'Arcy anyway? The photos accompanying these recent articles are... not good. Was she on drugs? Or has she been ill?

She started getting plastic surgery after Adore and was close to unrecognizable on the Arising tour in the spring of 1999. She quit/was fired later that year, then got arrested for trying buy crack in Chicago in early 2000, and has been in the woods since then. She called into Q101 in Chicago in 2009 and gave a rambling, barely coherent life update, said she "isn't healthy enough to be a musician," then a few years ago she was arrested for letting the horses on her farm escape. her mugshot was brutal. oh yeah and she's been on facebook for many years, I think I friended her in 2011 or something.

Thanks Flappy. The only thing I knew was that she'd become a farmer, or lived on a farm, whatever. I had drinks with the band (my first true love, musically) after a show in '96, and they were all really nice (it's on this forum somewhere idk). It comes across as if D'Arcy wants to be part of this reunion too, but she's two decades removed from the music world. I doubt it will gel between all them. The mudslinging is nagl though.

("Arrested for letting horses escape" sounds like some bizarro world shit though! How the hell is that an offence? Either make it an offence to keep horses, or make it an offence for horses to escape, in which case the horses should have been arrested for breaking free. But being arrested for not being able to confine horses? Makes u think)

they were roaming around the town and shit, causing a ruckus. idk it's some farmer law

Were the throwing tp rolls from trees? Trashing the 7-11? ;)

of course there's livestock laws, you can't just let your livestock run around wherever, how dense are smashing pumpkins fans?

fukkin coastal elites I tell ya

lmao

The D'arcy interview is up. Some clarity, some openness about drug problems, lots of dissembling and incoherent dodging, also lots of valid pointing at Corgan doing the same. I'm certain she's not well enough to do a tour, and especially that she and Billy ought not be in a working relationship with each other.

He just would throw tantrums and I would laugh at him. James would say, ‘Don’t laugh at Billy!’ Why not? Who died and made him God?

🙏🙏🙏

D'arcy rules so hard

I predict that if the original four of them start playing together that within months they'll be at each others throats again... and if they manage to make a record before dissolving in acrimony, in the afternath Billy will be all like "I did all the work, as usual. Me, me, memememememeeeeee!"

― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Monday, July 24, 2017 3:55 PM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, it didn't actually get as far as all four of 'em playing together, so... 'nuff said.

Far out, I did not know this existed. http://billycorgan.livejournal.com/tag/confessions

wow

i dunno why i'm surprised that billy corgan, perhaps the livejournaliest rock star of his generation, did indeed have a livejournal, but here we are

[ Tags | 1973, confessions, kicking ass, playing doctor, vagina, writing lines ]

i guess corgan was a big chelsey minnis fan...

The D’arcy interview inspired me to play a bunch of Smashing Pumpkins bass parts on Rocksmith (this game rules btw) yesterday. They are all pretty fun but certainly not complicated. I don’t understand why you would need a studio musician to tour with. Especially Peter Hook’s son (???). However, I suppose there’s a difference between playing in my living room and a stadium (or large theater ... or probably an “intimate” theater ... or whatever the Smashing Pumpkins can sellout in 2018).

Regardless, whatever bassist they have should get combat pay for sitting through the first half of Disarm.

If you’re curious, it’s enough time to finish a boss in the Dungeon Run mode of Hearthstone.

You guys haven’t read his confessions?? Oh my god... you thought the Kim thayil article was rich

Los Angeles, CA - FEBRUARY 15, 2018 - GRAMMY® Award-winning, acclaimed alternative rock pioneers The Smashing Pumpkins today announced the Shiny And Oh So Bright Tour, their first tour in nearly 20 years to feature founding members Billy Corgan, Jimmy Chamberlin, and James Iha. Produced by Live Nation, the 36-city tour will kick off in Glendale, AZ on July 12, 2018 and visit North American arenas throughout the summer. Tickets for the Shiny And Oh So Bright Tour will go on sale to the general public
starting next Friday, February 23 at 10:00am local time and be available at www.smashingpumpkins.com, LiveNation.com, and via the Live Nation App.

“Some 30 years ago, as The Smashing Pumpkins, James Iha and I began a musical journey in the cramped rear bedroom of my Father's house. And so it's magic to me that we're able to coalesce once more around the incredible Jimmy Chamberlin, to celebrate those songs we've made together,” shared Corgan.

The band broke news of the tour this morning with a dramatic video featuring original Siamese Dream album cover stars Ali Laenger and LySandra Roberts. Watch the clip HERE.

https://youtu.be/_Axm5b3i1gA

The monumental Shiny And Oh So Bright Tour, which coincides with the 30th anniversary of the band’s formation, will highlight music from the group’s inception through 2000, and will exclusively feature material from their groundbreaking debut Gish through Siamese Dream, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, Adore, and Machina. Longtime Smashing Pumpkins guitarist Jeff Schroeder will also take part, as the band moves to a three guitar lineup to better emulate the signature tones and textures of their albums.

“This show and staging will be unlike any we've ever done, and will feature a set unlike any we've ever played. For if this is a chance at a new beginning, we plan on ushering it in with a real bang,” added Corgan.

Unlike any we've ever done and a new beginning, says Corgan, as he reunites most of the band to tour the hits.

July 12 – Glendale, AZ @ Gila River Arena
July 14 – Oklahoma City, OK @ Chesapeake Energy Arena
July 16 – Austin, TX @ Frank Erwin Center
July 17 – Houston, TX @ Toyota Center
July 18 – Dallas, TX @ American Airlines Center
July 20 – Nashville, TN @ Bridgestone Arena
July 21 – Louisville, KY @ KFC Yum! Center
July 22 – Atlanta, GA @ Infinite Energy Aerna
July 24 – Miami, FL @ American Airlines Arena
July 25 – Tampa, FL @ Amalie Arena
July 27 – Baltimore, MD @ Royal Farms Arena
July 28 – Philadelphia, PA @ Wells Fargo Center
July 29 – Uncasville, CT @ Mohegan Sun Arena
July 31 – Boston, MA @ TD Garden
August 1 – New York City, NY @ Madison Square Garden
August 4 – Pittsburgh, PA @ PPG Paints Arena
August 5 – Detroit, MI @ Little Caesars Arena
August 7 – Montreal, QC @ Centre Bell
August 8 – Toronto, ON @ Air Canada Centre
August 11 – Columbus, OH @ Schottenstein Center
August 13 – Chicago, IL @ United Center
August 16 – Kansas City, MO @ Sprint Center
August 17 – Indianapolis, IN @ Bankers Life Fieldhouse
August 19 – St. Paul, MN @ Xcel Energy Center
August 20 – Omaha, NE @ CenturyLink Center
August 21 – Sioux Falls, SD @ Denny Sanford Premier Center
August 24 – Seattle, WA @ Key Arena
August 25 – Portland, OR @ Moda Center
August 27 – Oakland, CA @ Oracle Arena
August 28 – Sacramento, CA @ Golden 1 Center
August 30 – Los Angeles, CA @ The Forum
September 1 – San Diego, CA @ Viejas Arena
September 2 – Las Vegas, NV @ T-Mobile Arena
September 4 – Salt Lake City, UT @ Vivint Smart Home Arena
September 5 – Denver, CO @ Pepsi Center
September 7 – Boise, ID @ Ford Idaho Center

so Billy has said having Jimmy back means they can play "3 hour sets" - I expect hits from every era, plus a handful of the epics like Porcelina, Geek, Soma, Mayo, Ruby... sounds pretty good to me. and glad I won't have to travel to see this

I have serious doubts about them being able to fill such big arenas in so many cities.

What's the biggest audience the Pumpkins have played in the last 11 years?

*played to

They are all pretty fun but certainly not complicated. I don’t understand why you would need a studio musician to tour with.

as opposed to what, a DAT? they want a musician who is physically and mentally willing and capable of playing for hours, travelling for months, and handling interpersonal stress.