Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

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A unique and versatile group or a bunch of pretentious goths? You decide.

Philip Alderman, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

i liked a couple of tracks per album - not my thing really - not unique or versatile - when billy became fester they got even worse

Geordie Racer, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I am, truly, a pathetic fan. And I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE.

Classic, full up, full stop. I'm glad I've never had even the slightest opportunity to interact with Billy Corgan in real life, he'd drive me crazy, I figure. But oh man, all that good music. I love it all down to every last strangled squeal in his voice. Refer to these entries in the FT 136 list for more slavering if you really care:

Adore

Siamese Dream

Mellon Collie

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

That's pathetic, Ned.

I think I liked the Smashing Pumpkins okay with Gish and Siamese Dream because, although they were really just classic rock slightly warmed over, it was updated slightly and had some good associations in my life. I remember listening to Gish fairly often with someone who...well, never mind the details. When Mellon Collie came out, though, it became very clear to me that they were really a band who worshipped at the altar of classic rawk, esp. the bad overwrought and overblown kind, and that's really where I lost interest. When they scaled back on subsequent albums, there really wasn't much good material there, and I couldn't really be bothered to find the good stuff anymore.

Sean Carruthers, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I said I was pathetic. Did I lie? ;-) Check the AMG entries on some of the bootlegs.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'll use this rare opportunity of not entirely disagreeing with Ned, to say that Siamese Dream is indeed pretty great, and "1979" is one of my favorite songs. The other stuff I can take or leave.

Patrick, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

at least actual rotten vegetables are useful as compost. smashing pumpkins aren't even that.

ethan, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I had a little skirmish on Bitchpork (message board) a few weeks ago in which I defended Billy Corgan and SP from a self-righteous Frank Black fan (yes, of his new album, too--blechhhhh). It's hard for me to separate SP from being a 9th grader and listening to "Siamese Dream" EVERY DAY FOR MONTHS and worshipping it, but nonetheless I put it on a few months ago and it hit hard, real hard. I gave "Mellon Collie" another listen, too, and there's surprisingly little filler. I remember not having the attention span to take it all in at once when it first came out, though. Still, I feel like it's only when you become an anal analyst of music-- worried about being pretentious or uncool, worried about whether Corgan and Co. are "too goth" or something-- that stuff like SP starts to become suspect. I'm sick as hell of worrying about that, so I'm going to say classic. I haven't heard "Adore" or anything after, but based solely on "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie"--absolutely classic. Hmm, I think I'll go listen to them now...

Clarke B., Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Monumental dud. Rotten to the core. What stunned me was how such a slight band got so far. With Gish they all had some kind of individual imput, (more democratic), before Billy, or the record company, got the idea into his head that he was an artist, and turned them from a distinctive sound into a vehicle for his ego. The focus of the music turned to his performance, supporting his every indulgence, which would have been fine if he carried the same gravitas as the sound, or promotional campaign behind him. A case of Emperor's New Clothes, I couldn't understand why so many people didn't notice the disparity between his shallow introspection and their collossal sound. It might have worked with humour or irony but he was deadly serious, and so were his fans (at the time he was compared to Kobain???, and he sounds like he believed it). An embarrassment, I can't even bring myself to admit that 1979 was modest enough to survive. They can't be unique cause they did the same thing over and over, varing the scale. Versatility - the musicians were, but I never heard anything they did outside of the band.

K-reg, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Monstrous dud. 'Gish' I must admit was quite dreamy in a post-Jane's Addiction way. But after that! By Thor, the pretentions, the bald head, the whiny bastard voice, the smug attitude, the lack of tunes. Utterly insignificant.

Omar, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic singles band ca. SAD MELLON, and up to "Ava Adore." Never bothered with the albums (uh, so not TOO classic on the singles then). Early stuff dud - Hendrix-styled guitar solos/tones a welcome surprise for an indie-aligned band, but still dullsville.

AP, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh they are great! Mellon Collie is one of the best albums of all time (almost)...Billy has a big ego, but I admire his sense of melodrama...and for a modern rock band they were quite innovative, and quit just before they became a parody of themselves. Though, I do think they will reform, they are like the modern Grateful Dead, they will still be playing in 2025.

james e l, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

The question is surely irrelevant. Smashing Pumpkins have been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED to be the WORST BAND IN THE WORLD.

Tom, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm not quite sure I'd say they were classic, but _Adore_ is certainly an underrated album. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say it's thebest thing they ever released.

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Their version of "Dancing In The Moonlight" is at least better than Toploader's.

But not by much.

Would be classic for Siamese Dream, but dud for Adore, Machina and the fact that they could have edited Mellon Collie down to a single disc brilliancy - and didn't. Also, dud for bad song titles.

EdwardO, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Idiots who believed their own hype. Glad they're gone. Dud.

alex in nyc, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Despite all my rage, my solo album will be "new age".

Billy Corgan, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Another pure classic. Siamese Dream is still up in my top 10 favourite albums of all time, and Cherub Rock is surely one of the greatest full on rock songs ever written, I saw them on the Siamese Dream tour in Liverpool and it was only my second ever gig, but one of my favourites. I think their output went downhill slightly after Mellon Collie...(which has to be one of the only double albums, along with Physical Graffiti, to have virtually no filler material) but Adore and Machina are still 100% better than any other so-called hard rock band have put out. I just hope they get back together soon.

achilles_last_stand, Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

Bwah hah hah! No filler material! Please stop, I can't breathe.

I read a great thing in Gina Arnold's book "Kiss This" about how the Bullet With Butterfly Wings video was based around this painting of children trying to get out of being trapped in a coal mine or something, and how incredibly obnoxious it was that Billy Corgan would equate his angst with such horrendous suffering. I liked parts of "Siamese Dream", but I think one album of semi- romantic angst and mediocre prog-Sabbath guitar work is enough. So Dud, for sticking around too long, and for inexplicably blaming their failure on Britney.

Dave M., Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

five months pass...
I would have to say "a unique and versatile group" in reference to earlier material. Up to and including Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness I enjoyed Smashing Pumpkins. It's a non-intrusive kind of music that can't exactly fit into a genre. I saw a decline happening prior to the release of Adore. Then after hearing the odd attempt at fitting into a genre, I went back to MC&IS. With Machina I saw no comeback, only a further descent into doomed stardom. Machina II, however, was a very unique statement, very fitting for Smashing Pumpkins. All in all I couldn't say Billy Corgan and crew are pretentious goths. They're just genre-less artists being pushed around by the music industry.

James Hunyar, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

Great big fat bloated DUD. 'Gish' did posess a mildly pleasing hazy neo-psychedelic sheen, unlike the flatulent rock histrionics that followed. I walked out of a 'Siamese Dream' gig feeling slightly nauseous at being exposed to so much smug mastubatory guitar- soloing.

stevo, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

They weren't even the best band whose name was of the form Smashing [fruit] in 1991.

'1979' is ok, but not as good as its title. Everything else is excrement.

Michael Jones, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

a bit of both. I'm another for whom the Pumpkins were a favorite band in high school .. 'Siamese Dream' is still an excellent rock album, Billy Corgan's one successful opus .. still sounds great today. thick, ridiculously beefy guitars, perfect mix of rawking out and sensitive effeminacy .. still very much intending to be rock, but still with a glance at the less formulaic dimensions, 'Loveless' in particular .. classic as one of those 'diary' albums for yr typical emotional high school kid. sounds cheesy, but "saved my life!"

.. then they started putting out shitty albums. I lost interest after Melon Collie. bloated wank. and his voice became ever-more- hideous. such sludge.. they'll be most useful in that regard for documenting very clearly a band just completely losing their artistic vision and soul. I've only heard 'Machina' once, but it was so lifeless...

that said, I'll list a few of their best rare tracks so that brave souls can attempt to get another perspective on the band. they did have a few obscure b-sides and such that won't likely turn up on any best hits collection. search for these on your favorite music- trading platform ..

* daughter - a rare demo from 1989 or so, just two minutes of ethereal guitar & singing

* siamese dream - the song, not the album. very lo-fi, scratchy acid folk piece

* pulseczar - feedback-drenched psychedelia. slightly twee, too.

* their cover of Depeche Mode's 'Never Let Me Down Again' - better than the original. very light touch, just guitar, bass, drums and for once not the 'soundwall' approach ... brings you up to an imagined peak, then lets you down ..

* their cover of 'Dancing in the Moonlight' - soft, acoustic. if you don't mind his voice, this is a great song.

* obscured - a slow, drifting rock song. spacey, but subdued. nice.

* smiley - slow, simple pop. his voice on the deep end for once.

* Eye - darkwave/synthpop song from the Lost Highway soundtrack, great if you like that sort of thing

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

* Drown -- not the most rare Pumpkins song, it was on the Reality Bites soundtrack. 3 or so minutes of rock, then 4 of the best kind of guitar feedback drone, yumm..

* Starla - only if you're into guitar wankery. Corgan goes off for about 5 minutes, and most of it is actually pretty entertaining, if not exactly Fennesz..

Dare, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

classic or dud" isnt about how much you like a particular group. its about how they enudre, how much they produce, etc. so classic all the way. (yea billys an egomaniac, but so are most rock stars."

chameleon, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
(late, late, late)

gish, '89 demos, set the ray to jerry, cherry, obscured: classic i believe i speak for god album(s): dud everything else: i listened to it too much when i was 15

Johan, Sunday, 25 November 2001 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

"Gish" was amazing. The drumming, the guitars, the voices. A psychedelic milestone. Should be listened to on headphones.
Next and last album I liked was "Mellon Collie". One of the best double albums. More mainstream than Gish and more song-orientated with some ballads but still very good.
All the rest they did is quite mediocre. Corgan's voice alone really turns me down nowadays. Though the song with New Order on the new album is great.

alex in mainhattan, Monday, 26 November 2001 01:00 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
As is predictable by the whole "love it, hate it" option of "classic/dud", this seems to be a love it or hate it band. I think they were actually quite good, for an alternative rock band, all the way through The Aeroplane Flies High (collection of mellon collie b-sides that were actually pretty swell and stripped down) and that song on the lost highway collection. But the Batman song was cruddy. Adore I didn't buy or listen to at the time, but now that I hear it, I think some of the songwriting is fine, but hurt a bit by the production, which sort of robbed them of their strength, i.e. RAWK POWER. Still, if someone were to cover any of the songs, they'd be classics on par with the earlier material, maybe even better since they cut most of the "wanky guitar solos" that so many people on this board have problems with (honestly, what is this? 1977? I think Corgan's up there with Prince and Hendrix (and maybe that guy in Dinosaur Jr.) in that he can actually make a solo SAY something.)

So, continuuing with my theory, if one were to just sort of cut and re-record, you'd probably have about two good albums out of all the b-sides, machina 1 & 2, and adore stuff out there, post-melon collie. Which is what, eight albums (including a double album) total? In less than 8 years? Sounds classic to me.

Or I could just say I like 1979 and a few of their other songs to sound hip.

sean patrick, Sunday, 2 February 2003 00:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Siamese Dream is my favorite album evah. Actually, I probably wouldn't have even bought it if it hadn't been for Ned's song reviews on AMG (of course, this was before I had ever heard of ILx, so I didn't know who he was).. so kudos to you Ned.

Gish and Pisces Iscariot are also grate, and MCIS and Adore have a few nice songs (might as well join in on the "1979" praise here). Haven't heard anything off of Machina but I have a feeling I don't want to ;)

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Completely had forgotten I had done those reviews! :-) Thanks!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:32 (nineteen years ago) link

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

I'm afraid I must object--Moby's remix is horribly dull. It's essentially just Billy's vocals over a repetitive electro beat (and he doesn't even go to any lengths to actually change the order of the verses). I'm a big fan of Moby's early work, but I can't stand to listen to this.

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Then again, your description sounds VERY different from the version I've heard; perhaps I mis-downloaded.

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I thought these guys would be a classic with me but when I reviewed Greatest Hits for the college radio station here I was shocked by how crappobloaty I found all their singles before "1979" (oh, and "Zero" sucks too). From that one through "The Everlasting Gaze" (I always wished it was called "The Everlasting Gays", like Billy was trying to scare homophobes or something) I dig all their singles. Only album I've got is Adore, which even that I have a hard time getting through all the way (damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?).

Half-Classic/Half-Dud. And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 2 February 2003 23:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Putrid, impotent whinging... pretensiously overproduced post-glam. I believe they were Virgin's answer to the equally talentless Mother Love Bone.

gygax!, Monday, 3 February 2003 00:49 (nineteen years ago) link

damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?

And this is a bad thing? Excuse me, I have to listen to some Muslimgauze now.

And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

I think everyone involved with that film removed it from their resume.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Gish and Siamese Dream are pretty good. Mellon Colie has some moments. Adore gets no respect. The rest...not so good.

Juan (Juan), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Adore is saved by "Appels + Oranjes," which is the most perfect synth-pop song EVAH

Curtis Stephens, Monday, 3 February 2003 02:00 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
TEITBITE omission is b/c of licensing out to Warner Bros. for the film - hence not owned by Virgin.

But the real reason I post here is merely to drop this bomb you can find posted at http://www.billycorgan.com/

You know that beatles song 'I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink....'? I'm having one of those weeks...I just got 2 new kittens, brothers and sisters, named miss sami and mister thom cat...they are the best of friends, which is wonderful, but being young, they are into everything, including some things I didn't know you could get into...mister thom also seems to want to wake me up at 5am to say hello...well, the music for the rock and roll record is going really swell, just starting to get into a groove writing some songs...predominately focusing on melodies right now, leaving the words for a bit further down the road, which is unusual, but necessary...in the months to come, I am going to share some things with you that you have never heard me say...that doesn't mean I'm rewriting history, that means that I'm going to tell you the truth about who I am and what I believe in my heart...a lot of things that I have said thru the years seemed confusing, like I was hiding somethin!g, and often times I was...'why', you might ask? Many times I hid things to protect my band mates...for example, its been almost 4 years since I went on my friend tami's radio show and announced that the pumpkins were breaking up...that day, when she asked why we were breaking up, I said something silly like 'I'm tired of fighting britney blah blah'...and it went on to be widely quoted, as if I was breaking up my love, my band, because of some pop star...13 years of my life, and you know, let's pack it in cause their teeth are whiter...by saying that, I was seen as someone who was crying foul, taking his ball, and going home...which was sad cause it wans't true at all...The truth of the matter is is that james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins...not me, not jimmy, but james...did it help that d'arcy was fired for being a mean spirited drug addict, who refused to get help? No, that didn't help keep the band together, not at all...it made it very hard to go on, but we soldier! ed thru it even though our hearts were broken...But d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her...and jimmy didn't want to break up the band, not at that time...and I would have gone on forever...the smashing pumpkins were essentially my entire life...a dream I still believe in...many friends at that time suggested letting james leave, so jimmy and I could continue on under the name...but I was too loyal to the man I had started the whole thing with, and I protected him until the very end...right up until the last show on dec 2, 2000, when he thanked d'arcy on stage, but not the 2 men standing next to him...and I was loyal until he left the metro without even saying goodbye, or an 'its been great boys!', or a simple 'I love you' to us...no, james iha left the metro that night without saying goodbye to the 2 people he had won and lost and traveled the world with...so I won't be protecting him anymore...and I won't be protecting a whole lot of other people anymore...not because I don't love them (I do!!) but because ! I love myself too...I want to say one more thing, and that is I appreciate you reading this...+I want to remind you that I love you...God has given me the strength to say that to you, and I hope that you don't hide who you are...does it make me sad that I have hid myself all these years? No, it was what I had to do to survive, or at least what I 'thought' I needed to do...but surviving is not enough...we all deserve to flourish, and to know happiness and joy...that is my new dream...the smashing pumpkins gave me that, and I am eternally grateful...especially to those that shared in the dream with me...even if you bought just one cd, or came to a show, you gave us that chance...we thank you for that...even if we don't always know how to show it...be well!! William

Wow.

Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:28 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know, man -- I am a huge SP fan, but Corgan sounds like a raving lunatic in that post, and James Iha always seemed pretty normal when I would see him around NYC a few years ago (he was playing with Nathan Larson (ex-Shudder to Think) at places like Brownies).
I mean, fine, maybe the band broke up because Iha left, but maybe Iha had a perfectly legit reason to run for it!
That said, I vote classic on the Pumpkins.

Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:46 (eighteen years ago) link

I likes 'em! They got some good stuff. Of course back in the mid-90s when music radio completely SUCKED ASS, it was either the Pumpkins or Candlebox, Offspring, or Bush.

So, best of a bad lot, then. Neither classic nor dud. Good.

Say! Anybody heard that one album they did where they leaked it onto the Internet for free simply to piss off their record company?

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Did Iha also break up Zwan?

morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Considering he wasn't in Zwan, that might have been hard.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:23 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, but I'm interested to see if Billy will throw the blame his way all the same.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Actually, reading that over, maybe they were the Bob Mould and Grant Hart of the nineties altrockcracy.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Okay Pumpkin Experts, James Iha is in A Perfect Circle's touring line up and support when I saw them was the boring Auf Der Meyer.
Are they an item or what?

mei (mei), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:40 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Corgan in a non-stop bandmate blagging mission from God:

i did not feel that a cd release on a major label that i was out there trying to hawk with a bunch of immoral band mates (that does not include jimmy, by the way...he is one of best men i know) was a place to talk about the deepest of issues...no, the internet is!!!

In other news, he's now gone public with an email address. Guess who's gonna have 1000+ emails by Sunday?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:23 (eighteen years ago) link

That's referring to Zwan, btw.

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Slow motion apocalypse.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:04 (eighteen years ago) link

I love the Pumpkins but I cannot stand to read Billy's blog. It just makes me upset.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:14 (eighteen years ago) link

For our mutual entertainment, here's my version of a perfect,
1-disc _Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness_. You may find
it rather bizarre, since I include a lot of "filler" that I
prefer to the full blown centerpieces:

01. Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
02. Tonight, Tonight
03. Jellybelly
04. Here Is No Why
05. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
06. Where Boys Fear To Tread
07. Thirty-Three
08. 1979
09. Thru The Eyes Of Ruby
10. We Only Come Out At Night
11. Beautiful
12. Lily
13. By Starlight
14. Farewell And Goodnight

Truth be told, I could live without "Tonight" and "Thirty-Three" -
I guess I included them out of some obligation to remain in the
realm of the remotely possible. Billy is rather proud of these
songs, I highly doubt he would have dispensed them.

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Wow thirty-three is one of my favorite pumpkins songs!

ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:36 (eighteen years ago) link

i thought jimmy was on this one

ufo, Friday, 27 November 2020 12:42 (one year ago) link

I like the background vox and harmonies on this one, surprisingly

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 27 November 2020 13:48 (one year ago) link

i'm sure he's on it but you would never know.

Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Friday, 27 November 2020 13:54 (one year ago) link

jimmy played all the drums on the record

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 27 November 2020 14:00 (one year ago) link

the record is def too long but i am so thrilled i don’t actively dislike any of these songs. they’re also all stuck in my head constantly :(

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 27 November 2020 14:02 (one year ago) link

songwriting-wise i think it’s even stronger than oceania, and the production lacks depth but it comes super close to the adore sound anyway

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 27 November 2020 14:04 (one year ago) link

I like the background vox and harmonies on this one, surprisingly

― it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, November 27, 2020 6:48 AM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

made me wonder if billy’s been listening to a lot of later leonard cohen records

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 27 November 2020 14:06 (one year ago) link

oh god i also really love "the hidden sun," the synth hook on that one is out of this world

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 27 November 2020 15:17 (one year ago) link

Man, I wish I could share your enthusiasm Brad. There are indeed some big hooks and I was hoping for more out of a return to the Adore/FutureEmbrace sound, but I'm just not enthused after a first listen. The synth work feels really lazy (the really repetitive line in "Wrath" being one example that stood out), the backing vocals feel really out of place and I just cannot fathom bringing Jimmy back for him to imitate a drum machine for an entire album. It's not terrible, but it's not very good either, unfortunately.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 15:27 (one year ago) link

lol listen, i already know that i'm alone here

i think the complaints about jimmy are silly though. as a drummer i think changing the emphasis of your playing to suit the texture of the song is... very difficult and admirable. also the moments where jimmy's regular pumpkins style breaks through really pop

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 15:37 (one year ago) link

I suppose that's fair, I guess I just really miss monster RAWK kit-bashing Jimmy. I guess we get some hints of that on say, "Wyttch", tho.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 15:39 (one year ago) link

"Cyr" is growing on me -- just watched the Tonight Show clip and it isn't...so bad? Speaking of Jimmy, the guy looks like a million bucks these days.

Sam Weller, Wednesday, 2 December 2020 15:39 (one year ago) link

He does look great, I'm really happy for him!

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 2 December 2020 15:43 (one year ago) link

Listened to about half of this last night. I don't usually dip much of a toe into modern Pumpkins stuff, but I felt like I had to give it a try after reading an excerpt from Gerard Way's interview with Corgan in Alternative Press (you have to actually pick up a print copy of AP to read the whole thing, and I'm not certain where to even find it these days).

Anyway, I'm not floored by it, but still think it's pretty good. Really like Billy taking us back to the core, the heart music. I also think the background singers are great - reminds me of Leonard Cohen or something.

I do wish that it had more depth, more interesting little details. Everything seems to be very straightforward and immediately obvious. Also agree with those above who say that this may not have been the best use of a Jimmy Chamberlin. And when I took time to follow along with some of the lyrics it was like, what are you talking about?

I don't know - I'm definitely going to finish listening to it and will probably listen again. Makes excellent background music at least, and that's not a bad thing.

peace, man, Friday, 4 December 2020 14:19 (one year ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ascLZN2iyZg

i do hope he continues writing songs like this one in particular

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 4 December 2020 17:41 (one year ago) link

(purple blood)

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 4 December 2020 17:42 (one year ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prI0dKB51Tw

haha whoa this is kinda rad!

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 4 December 2020 19:29 (one year ago) link

Well that seemed really good to me, and I haven't vibed with anything Pumpkins since Adore.

assert (MatthewK), Saturday, 5 December 2020 04:04 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Every one of those 80 songs is going to be a 20 minute compilation of the riffs from 80 completely different unreleased songs.

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 28 January 2021 18:55 (one year ago) link

i'm wary of what, if any, newly-recorded old ideas are gonna appear on this, mostly bc unless billy brought flood in, it's not gonna sound good lol

still very psyched

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 28 January 2021 18:59 (one year ago) link

not that machina or machina ii sound good either but they sound better than nu-pumpkins

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 28 January 2021 19:00 (one year ago) link

yeah in my head his attempts to make all these songs cohere sonically will be....less than optimal

stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 28 January 2021 19:02 (one year ago) link

i would also like a cd transfer of the og machina ii recordings bc it's been vinyl rips for twenty years now, come on bc. according to this news though i don't think i'm getting that lol

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 28 January 2021 19:06 (one year ago) link

Machina would have made a great instrumental album.

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 28 January 2021 20:30 (one year ago) link

you know what song rules? “slow dawn”.

brimstead, Thursday, 28 January 2021 20:39 (one year ago) link

yes

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 28 January 2021 21:48 (one year ago) link

Machina would have made a great instrumental album.

I would actually really like to hear the all SPs albums vocals-free

stylish but illegal (Simon H.), Thursday, 28 January 2021 21:49 (one year ago) link

who wants (the) honey(ed vocals of william corgan)

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 28 January 2021 21:53 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

So apparently “Eye” was Corgan trying to do a Dr. Dre type of beat for Shaquille O Neal to rap on top off in a collab with them.

I don’t know if that was a popular piece of trivia but yeah I can definitely hear the Dre influence and would have loved a SP rap collab in the 90’s.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Monday, 21 February 2022 05:52 (seven months ago) link

six months pass...

So a new 33-song rock opera, titled Atum that is a sequel to Mellon Collie? There was a time when I would be excited about this, but uh... not now, particularly the "produced by Billy Corgan" part.

https://pitchfork.com/news/the-smashing-pumpkins-announce-new-album-atum-a-sequel-to-mellon-collie-and-machina/

As of now, only available in a $225 vinyl version, or a $499 autographed version, due out April 2023. Billy certainly knows he has diehards willing to drop cash at a moments notice.

I'll hold out for the streaming.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:10 (one week ago) link

Gotta squeeze every last drop out of the fresh fruit

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:43 (one week ago) link

New single is horrendous, but that’s par for the course with 21st century Pumpkins. Chamberlain’s drumming is so rote and boring on it

beamish13, Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:44 (one week ago) link

Yeah, probably the single biggest crime Corgan continues to commit is having Jimmy fucking Chamberlain in his band and refusing to let him off the leash. It's awful.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:47 (one week ago) link

For all his hullabaloo with artwork, song titles, huge albums, gaudy videos...the songs since Oceania have been sooo uninteresting. At the very least the guy used to be bursting with ideas.

Sam Weller, Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:55 (one week ago) link

the other new song ("butterfly suite") is much better, uncoincidentally it sounds a lot like cyr (see evidence above of me liking cyr)

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:56 (one week ago) link

Didn't realize there was a second one out there, I'd only heard "Beguiled".

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:58 (one week ago) link

I didn't hate Cyr, but I'm also not interested in another take on that sound.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:58 (one week ago) link

i dislike "beguiled" and "solara" for the same reason, they are both anchored by very boring riffs

besides which corgan already wrote a late-period pop-metal song that both of those tracks wish they were, it's called "glow" and if it isn't particularly good at least it actually gets stuck in my head

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 14:59 (one week ago) link

The songs themselves will be drip-fed to fans on a weekly basis, however, with frontman Billy Corgan launching a podcast, Thirty-Three (named for the total number of songs on ‘ATUM’) to explore the story behind each track.

oof, come on

Karl Malone, Tuesday, 20 September 2022 15:01 (one week ago) link

Didn't realize there was a second one out there, I'd only heard "Beguiled".

― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, September 20, 2022 7:58 AM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it leaked, i guess? i thought it would hit streaming with "beguiled" but it didn't https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashingPumpkins/comments/xibg95/butterfly_suite_2022/

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 15:19 (one week ago) link

Thanks!

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 15:21 (one week ago) link

i maintain that shiny & oh so bright vol. 1 was actually decent (even though "solara" sucked) & pretty easily the most worthwhile thing corgan's done since zwan

& lol he is releasing one song a week but not even in tracklist order? "beguiled" is in the middle of act 2, this is completely baffling.

ufo, Tuesday, 20 September 2022 17:49 (one week ago) link

i was an oceania denier for years but it's easily the strongest post-pumpkins mk 1 record

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 17:58 (one week ago) link

Maybe he can actually finish this project, unlike Teargarden.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 18:00 (one week ago) link

it's already done so little risk of that

ufo, Tuesday, 20 September 2022 18:26 (one week ago) link

haha, yes, that was my point

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 20 September 2022 18:27 (one week ago) link

it is billy though so i wouldn't completely put it past him

ufo, Tuesday, 20 September 2022 18:59 (one week ago) link

I wasn't there, but apparently they were pretty solid last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Faqxbmj6sIg

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 September 2022 23:46 (one week ago) link


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