Smashing Pumpkins: Fresh Fruit or Rotten Veg?

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A unique and versatile group or a bunch of pretentious goths? You decide.

Philip Alderman, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

i liked a couple of tracks per album - not my thing really - not unique or versatile - when billy became fester they got even worse

Geordie Racer, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I am, truly, a pathetic fan. And I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE I DON'T CARE.

Classic, full up, full stop. I'm glad I've never had even the slightest opportunity to interact with Billy Corgan in real life, he'd drive me crazy, I figure. But oh man, all that good music. I love it all down to every last strangled squeal in his voice. Refer to these entries in the FT 136 list for more slavering if you really care:


Siamese Dream

Mellon Collie

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

That's pathetic, Ned.

I think I liked the Smashing Pumpkins okay with Gish and Siamese Dream because, although they were really just classic rock slightly warmed over, it was updated slightly and had some good associations in my life. I remember listening to Gish fairly often with someone who...well, never mind the details. When Mellon Collie came out, though, it became very clear to me that they were really a band who worshipped at the altar of classic rawk, esp. the bad overwrought and overblown kind, and that's really where I lost interest. When they scaled back on subsequent albums, there really wasn't much good material there, and I couldn't really be bothered to find the good stuff anymore.

Sean Carruthers, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I said I was pathetic. Did I lie? ;-) Check the AMG entries on some of the bootlegs.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I'll use this rare opportunity of not entirely disagreeing with Ned, to say that Siamese Dream is indeed pretty great, and "1979" is one of my favorite songs. The other stuff I can take or leave.

Patrick, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

at least actual rotten vegetables are useful as compost. smashing pumpkins aren't even that.

ethan, Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I had a little skirmish on Bitchpork (message board) a few weeks ago in which I defended Billy Corgan and SP from a self-righteous Frank Black fan (yes, of his new album, too--blechhhhh). It's hard for me to separate SP from being a 9th grader and listening to "Siamese Dream" EVERY DAY FOR MONTHS and worshipping it, but nonetheless I put it on a few months ago and it hit hard, real hard. I gave "Mellon Collie" another listen, too, and there's surprisingly little filler. I remember not having the attention span to take it all in at once when it first came out, though. Still, I feel like it's only when you become an anal analyst of music-- worried about being pretentious or uncool, worried about whether Corgan and Co. are "too goth" or something-- that stuff like SP starts to become suspect. I'm sick as hell of worrying about that, so I'm going to say classic. I haven't heard "Adore" or anything after, but based solely on "Siamese Dream" and "Mellon Collie"--absolutely classic. Hmm, I think I'll go listen to them now...

Clarke B., Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Monumental dud. Rotten to the core. What stunned me was how such a slight band got so far. With Gish they all had some kind of individual imput, (more democratic), before Billy, or the record company, got the idea into his head that he was an artist, and turned them from a distinctive sound into a vehicle for his ego. The focus of the music turned to his performance, supporting his every indulgence, which would have been fine if he carried the same gravitas as the sound, or promotional campaign behind him. A case of Emperor's New Clothes, I couldn't understand why so many people didn't notice the disparity between his shallow introspection and their collossal sound. It might have worked with humour or irony but he was deadly serious, and so were his fans (at the time he was compared to Kobain???, and he sounds like he believed it). An embarrassment, I can't even bring myself to admit that 1979 was modest enough to survive. They can't be unique cause they did the same thing over and over, varing the scale. Versatility - the musicians were, but I never heard anything they did outside of the band.

K-reg, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Monstrous dud. 'Gish' I must admit was quite dreamy in a post-Jane's Addiction way. But after that! By Thor, the pretentions, the bald head, the whiny bastard voice, the smug attitude, the lack of tunes. Utterly insignificant.

Omar, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Classic singles band ca. SAD MELLON, and up to "Ava Adore." Never bothered with the albums (uh, so not TOO classic on the singles then). Early stuff dud - Hendrix-styled guitar solos/tones a welcome surprise for an indie-aligned band, but still dullsville.

AP, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh they are great! Mellon Collie is one of the best albums of all time (almost)...Billy has a big ego, but I admire his sense of melodrama...and for a modern rock band they were quite innovative, and quit just before they became a parody of themselves. Though, I do think they will reform, they are like the modern Grateful Dead, they will still be playing in 2025.

james e l, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The question is surely irrelevant. Smashing Pumpkins have been SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED to be the WORST BAND IN THE WORLD.

Tom, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not quite sure I'd say they were classic, but _Adore_ is certainly an underrated album. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say it's thebest thing they ever released.

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Their version of "Dancing In The Moonlight" is at least better than Toploader's.

But not by much.

Would be classic for Siamese Dream, but dud for Adore, Machina and the fact that they could have edited Mellon Collie down to a single disc brilliancy - and didn't. Also, dud for bad song titles.

EdwardO, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Idiots who believed their own hype. Glad they're gone. Dud.

alex in nyc, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Despite all my rage, my solo album will be "new age".

Billy Corgan, Wednesday, 2 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Another pure classic. Siamese Dream is still up in my top 10 favourite albums of all time, and Cherub Rock is surely one of the greatest full on rock songs ever written, I saw them on the Siamese Dream tour in Liverpool and it was only my second ever gig, but one of my favourites. I think their output went downhill slightly after Mellon Collie...(which has to be one of the only double albums, along with Physical Graffiti, to have virtually no filler material) but Adore and Machina are still 100% better than any other so-called hard rock band have put out. I just hope they get back together soon.

achilles_last_stand, Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Bwah hah hah! No filler material! Please stop, I can't breathe.

I read a great thing in Gina Arnold's book "Kiss This" about how the Bullet With Butterfly Wings video was based around this painting of children trying to get out of being trapped in a coal mine or something, and how incredibly obnoxious it was that Billy Corgan would equate his angst with such horrendous suffering. I liked parts of "Siamese Dream", but I think one album of semi- romantic angst and mediocre prog-Sabbath guitar work is enough. So Dud, for sticking around too long, and for inexplicably blaming their failure on Britney.

Dave M., Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

five months pass...
I would have to say "a unique and versatile group" in reference to earlier material. Up to and including Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness I enjoyed Smashing Pumpkins. It's a non-intrusive kind of music that can't exactly fit into a genre. I saw a decline happening prior to the release of Adore. Then after hearing the odd attempt at fitting into a genre, I went back to MC&IS. With Machina I saw no comeback, only a further descent into doomed stardom. Machina II, however, was a very unique statement, very fitting for Smashing Pumpkins. All in all I couldn't say Billy Corgan and crew are pretentious goths. They're just genre-less artists being pushed around by the music industry.

James Hunyar, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Great big fat bloated DUD. 'Gish' did posess a mildly pleasing hazy neo-psychedelic sheen, unlike the flatulent rock histrionics that followed. I walked out of a 'Siamese Dream' gig feeling slightly nauseous at being exposed to so much smug mastubatory guitar- soloing.

stevo, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

They weren't even the best band whose name was of the form Smashing [fruit] in 1991.

'1979' is ok, but not as good as its title. Everything else is excrement.

Michael Jones, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

a bit of both. I'm another for whom the Pumpkins were a favorite band in high school .. 'Siamese Dream' is still an excellent rock album, Billy Corgan's one successful opus .. still sounds great today. thick, ridiculously beefy guitars, perfect mix of rawking out and sensitive effeminacy .. still very much intending to be rock, but still with a glance at the less formulaic dimensions, 'Loveless' in particular .. classic as one of those 'diary' albums for yr typical emotional high school kid. sounds cheesy, but "saved my life!"

.. then they started putting out shitty albums. I lost interest after Melon Collie. bloated wank. and his voice became ever-more- hideous. such sludge.. they'll be most useful in that regard for documenting very clearly a band just completely losing their artistic vision and soul. I've only heard 'Machina' once, but it was so lifeless...

that said, I'll list a few of their best rare tracks so that brave souls can attempt to get another perspective on the band. they did have a few obscure b-sides and such that won't likely turn up on any best hits collection. search for these on your favorite music- trading platform ..

* daughter - a rare demo from 1989 or so, just two minutes of ethereal guitar & singing

* siamese dream - the song, not the album. very lo-fi, scratchy acid folk piece

* pulseczar - feedback-drenched psychedelia. slightly twee, too.

* their cover of Depeche Mode's 'Never Let Me Down Again' - better than the original. very light touch, just guitar, bass, drums and for once not the 'soundwall' approach ... brings you up to an imagined peak, then lets you down ..

* their cover of 'Dancing in the Moonlight' - soft, acoustic. if you don't mind his voice, this is a great song.

* obscured - a slow, drifting rock song. spacey, but subdued. nice.

* smiley - slow, simple pop. his voice on the deep end for once.

* Eye - darkwave/synthpop song from the Lost Highway soundtrack, great if you like that sort of thing

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

* Drown -- not the most rare Pumpkins song, it was on the Reality Bites soundtrack. 3 or so minutes of rock, then 4 of the best kind of guitar feedback drone, yumm..

* Starla - only if you're into guitar wankery. Corgan goes off for about 5 minutes, and most of it is actually pretty entertaining, if not exactly Fennesz..

Dare, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

classic or dud" isnt about how much you like a particular group. its about how they enudre, how much they produce, etc. so classic all the way. (yea billys an egomaniac, but so are most rock stars."

chameleon, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
(late, late, late)

gish, '89 demos, set the ray to jerry, cherry, obscured: classic i believe i speak for god album(s): dud everything else: i listened to it too much when i was 15

Johan, Sunday, 25 November 2001 01:00 (eighteen years ago) link

"Gish" was amazing. The drumming, the guitars, the voices. A psychedelic milestone. Should be listened to on headphones.
Next and last album I liked was "Mellon Collie". One of the best double albums. More mainstream than Gish and more song-orientated with some ballads but still very good.
All the rest they did is quite mediocre. Corgan's voice alone really turns me down nowadays. Though the song with New Order on the new album is great.

alex in mainhattan, Monday, 26 November 2001 01:00 (eighteen years ago) link

one year passes...
As is predictable by the whole "love it, hate it" option of "classic/dud", this seems to be a love it or hate it band. I think they were actually quite good, for an alternative rock band, all the way through The Aeroplane Flies High (collection of mellon collie b-sides that were actually pretty swell and stripped down) and that song on the lost highway collection. But the Batman song was cruddy. Adore I didn't buy or listen to at the time, but now that I hear it, I think some of the songwriting is fine, but hurt a bit by the production, which sort of robbed them of their strength, i.e. RAWK POWER. Still, if someone were to cover any of the songs, they'd be classics on par with the earlier material, maybe even better since they cut most of the "wanky guitar solos" that so many people on this board have problems with (honestly, what is this? 1977? I think Corgan's up there with Prince and Hendrix (and maybe that guy in Dinosaur Jr.) in that he can actually make a solo SAY something.)

So, continuuing with my theory, if one were to just sort of cut and re-record, you'd probably have about two good albums out of all the b-sides, machina 1 & 2, and adore stuff out there, post-melon collie. Which is what, eight albums (including a double album) total? In less than 8 years? Sounds classic to me.

Or I could just say I like 1979 and a few of their other songs to sound hip.

sean patrick, Sunday, 2 February 2003 00:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Siamese Dream is my favorite album evah. Actually, I probably wouldn't have even bought it if it hadn't been for Ned's song reviews on AMG (of course, this was before I had ever heard of ILx, so I didn't know who he was).. so kudos to you Ned.

Gish and Pisces Iscariot are also grate, and MCIS and Adore have a few nice songs (might as well join in on the "1979" praise here). Haven't heard anything off of Machina but I have a feeling I don't want to ;)

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Completely had forgotten I had done those reviews! :-) Thanks!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:32 (seventeen years ago) link

* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.

I'm afraid I must object--Moby's remix is horribly dull. It's essentially just Billy's vocals over a repetitive electro beat (and he doesn't even go to any lengths to actually change the order of the verses). I'm a big fan of Moby's early work, but I can't stand to listen to this.

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Then again, your description sounds VERY different from the version I've heard; perhaps I mis-downloaded.

Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:50 (seventeen years ago) link

I thought these guys would be a classic with me but when I reviewed Greatest Hits for the college radio station here I was shocked by how crappobloaty I found all their singles before "1979" (oh, and "Zero" sucks too). From that one through "The Everlasting Gaze" (I always wished it was called "The Everlasting Gays", like Billy was trying to scare homophobes or something) I dig all their singles. Only album I've got is Adore, which even that I have a hard time getting through all the way (damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?).

Half-Classic/Half-Dud. And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 2 February 2003 23:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Putrid, impotent whinging... pretensiously overproduced post-glam. I believe they were Virgin's answer to the equally talentless Mother Love Bone.

gygax!, Monday, 3 February 2003 00:49 (seventeen years ago) link

damn songs just loop for eternity, don't they?

And this is a bad thing? Excuse me, I have to listen to some Muslimgauze now.

And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?

I think everyone involved with that film removed it from their resume.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Gish and Siamese Dream are pretty good. Mellon Colie has some moments. Adore gets no respect. The rest...not so good.

Juan (Juan), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Adore is saved by "Appels + Oranjes," which is the most perfect synth-pop song EVAH

Curtis Stephens, Monday, 3 February 2003 02:00 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...
TEITBITE omission is b/c of licensing out to Warner Bros. for the film - hence not owned by Virgin.

But the real reason I post here is merely to drop this bomb you can find posted at

You know that beatles song 'I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink....'? I'm having one of those weeks...I just got 2 new kittens, brothers and sisters, named miss sami and mister thom cat...they are the best of friends, which is wonderful, but being young, they are into everything, including some things I didn't know you could get into...mister thom also seems to want to wake me up at 5am to say hello...well, the music for the rock and roll record is going really swell, just starting to get into a groove writing some songs...predominately focusing on melodies right now, leaving the words for a bit further down the road, which is unusual, but the months to come, I am going to share some things with you that you have never heard me say...that doesn't mean I'm rewriting history, that means that I'm going to tell you the truth about who I am and what I believe in my heart...a lot of things that I have said thru the years seemed confusing, like I was hiding somethin!g, and often times I was...'why', you might ask? Many times I hid things to protect my band mates...for example, its been almost 4 years since I went on my friend tami's radio show and announced that the pumpkins were breaking up...that day, when she asked why we were breaking up, I said something silly like 'I'm tired of fighting britney blah blah'...and it went on to be widely quoted, as if I was breaking up my love, my band, because of some pop star...13 years of my life, and you know, let's pack it in cause their teeth are saying that, I was seen as someone who was crying foul, taking his ball, and going home...which was sad cause it wans't true at all...The truth of the matter is is that james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins...not me, not jimmy, but james...did it help that d'arcy was fired for being a mean spirited drug addict, who refused to get help? No, that didn't help keep the band together, not at made it very hard to go on, but we soldier! ed thru it even though our hearts were broken...But d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her...and jimmy didn't want to break up the band, not at that time...and I would have gone on forever...the smashing pumpkins were essentially my entire life...a dream I still believe in...many friends at that time suggested letting james leave, so jimmy and I could continue on under the name...but I was too loyal to the man I had started the whole thing with, and I protected him until the very end...right up until the last show on dec 2, 2000, when he thanked d'arcy on stage, but not the 2 men standing next to him...and I was loyal until he left the metro without even saying goodbye, or an 'its been great boys!', or a simple 'I love you' to, james iha left the metro that night without saying goodbye to the 2 people he had won and lost and traveled the world I won't be protecting him anymore...and I won't be protecting a whole lot of other people anymore...not because I don't love them (I do!!) but because ! I love myself too...I want to say one more thing, and that is I appreciate you reading this...+I want to remind you that I love you...God has given me the strength to say that to you, and I hope that you don't hide who you are...does it make me sad that I have hid myself all these years? No, it was what I had to do to survive, or at least what I 'thought' I needed to do...but surviving is not enough...we all deserve to flourish, and to know happiness and joy...that is my new dream...the smashing pumpkins gave me that, and I am eternally grateful...especially to those that shared in the dream with me...even if you bought just one cd, or came to a show, you gave us that chance...we thank you for that...even if we don't always know how to show well!! William


Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:28 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't know, man -- I am a huge SP fan, but Corgan sounds like a raving lunatic in that post, and James Iha always seemed pretty normal when I would see him around NYC a few years ago (he was playing with Nathan Larson (ex-Shudder to Think) at places like Brownies).
I mean, fine, maybe the band broke up because Iha left, but maybe Iha had a perfectly legit reason to run for it!
That said, I vote classic on the Pumpkins.

Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:46 (sixteen years ago) link

I likes 'em! They got some good stuff. Of course back in the mid-90s when music radio completely SUCKED ASS, it was either the Pumpkins or Candlebox, Offspring, or Bush.

So, best of a bad lot, then. Neither classic nor dud. Good.

Say! Anybody heard that one album they did where they leaked it onto the Internet for free simply to piss off their record company?

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:58 (sixteen years ago) link

Did Iha also break up Zwan?

morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:18 (sixteen years ago) link

Considering he wasn't in Zwan, that might have been hard.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:23 (sixteen years ago) link

Yes, but I'm interested to see if Billy will throw the blame his way all the same.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:24 (sixteen years ago) link

Actually, reading that over, maybe they were the Bob Mould and Grant Hart of the nineties altrockcracy.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:30 (sixteen years ago) link

Okay Pumpkin Experts, James Iha is in A Perfect Circle's touring line up and support when I saw them was the boring Auf Der Meyer.
Are they an item or what?

mei (mei), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:40 (sixteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Corgan in a non-stop bandmate blagging mission from God:

i did not feel that a cd release on a major label that i was out there trying to hawk with a bunch of immoral band mates (that does not include jimmy, by the way...he is one of best men i know) was a place to talk about the deepest of, the internet is!!!

In other news, he's now gone public with an email address. Guess who's gonna have 1000+ emails by Sunday?

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:23 (sixteen years ago) link

That's referring to Zwan, btw.

Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:24 (sixteen years ago) link

Slow motion apocalypse.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:04 (sixteen years ago) link

I love the Pumpkins but I cannot stand to read Billy's blog. It just makes me upset.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:14 (sixteen years ago) link

For our mutual entertainment, here's my version of a perfect,
1-disc _Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness_. You may find
it rather bizarre, since I include a lot of "filler" that I
prefer to the full blown centerpieces:

01. Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness
02. Tonight, Tonight
03. Jellybelly
04. Here Is No Why
05. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
06. Where Boys Fear To Tread
07. Thirty-Three
08. 1979
09. Thru The Eyes Of Ruby
10. We Only Come Out At Night
11. Beautiful
12. Lily
13. By Starlight
14. Farewell And Goodnight

Truth be told, I could live without "Tonight" and "Thirty-Three" -
I guess I included them out of some obligation to remain in the
realm of the remotely possible. Billy is rather proud of these
songs, I highly doubt he would have dispensed them.

Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:32 (sixteen years ago) link

Wow thirty-three is one of my favorite pumpkins songs!

ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:36 (sixteen years ago) link

the mix is so muddy but that overdriven guitar sound where it sounds simultaneously like a synth and a laser... fuckin incredible

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 5 September 2020 02:18 (one month ago) link

(“Ruby” is ok, but kinda plodding?, and in a Pumpkins mode that I don’t dig so much. My least favorite mode is when they get aggro, à la “Geek USA” & “Silverf*ck” — or, on this album, “Ode to No One” & “XYU”)

“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Saturday, 5 September 2020 02:19 (one month ago) link

(but I was a teenage Gish-head who was kinda confused by SD, and stopped buying their albums altogether after Pisces)

“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Saturday, 5 September 2020 02:20 (one month ago) link

'Ruby' is pretty much a prog epic...

aphoristical, Saturday, 5 September 2020 02:21 (one month ago) link

Serious q—should I try making it thru the 64 bonus tracks on the Deluxe Edition; or just start with this "Pastichio Medley" I’ve read so much about (today) (on Wikipedia)?

“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Saturday, 5 September 2020 02:59 (one month ago) link

The instrumental gravity demos are tite

brimstead, Saturday, 5 September 2020 03:05 (one month ago) link

you mean the mellon collie deluxe bonus tracks? ehhhh. i would just listen to aeroplane?

brimstead is right that the gravity demos are tight but that's like superfan shit

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 5 September 2020 03:07 (one month ago) link

aw guess those are on the aeroplane flies high deluxe ed

brimstead, Saturday, 5 September 2020 03:07 (one month ago) link

Cool, thanks, I’ll check out Aeroplane

“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Saturday, 5 September 2020 03:29 (one month ago) link

the best mcis b-sides are as follows: "mouths of babes," "set the ray to jerry," "cherry," "aeroplane flies high," "the boy," the entire tonight tonight ep minus "blank"

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 5 September 2020 03:36 (one month ago) link

i sometimes feel like i'm the only person who loves "transformer" but "transformer"

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 5 September 2020 03:36 (one month ago) link

oh and "pennies" and "marquis in spades," zero ep is where it's at really

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 5 September 2020 03:37 (one month ago) link

I'm trying to discern if "Transformer" and "The Bells" have any Lou Reed going on, or if the titles are just a coincidence

“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Saturday, 5 September 2020 06:30 (one month ago) link

yeah, "The Boy" and "Pennies" make you go... "he can write songs like that?"

“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Saturday, 5 September 2020 06:39 (one month ago) link

“the boy” was written by james iha tbf

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 5 September 2020 12:16 (one month ago) link

no ruby no cred

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, September 4, 2020 9:35 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Saturday, 5 September 2020 13:21 (one month ago) link

I had the CD version of MCIS growing up but i think I prefer the track order on the vinyl version

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Saturday, 5 September 2020 14:15 (one month ago) link

Set the Ray to Jerry and Pennies are perhaps two of my favorite Smashing Pumpkins songs and I didn’t get to hear them long after my teenage MCIS obsession had passed. I always wonder if my opinion on them would be the same if they had been included in the album.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 5 September 2020 14:32 (one month ago) link

I'm trying to discern if "Transformer" and "The Bells" have any Lou Reed going on

"transformer" is def a glam rock move

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:12 (one month ago) link

“the boy” was written by james iha tbf


“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Saturday, 5 September 2020 15:56 (one month ago) link

“medillia of the gray skies” is a killer bside too

brimstead, Saturday, 5 September 2020 21:06 (one month ago) link

Ah, on the tonite tonite EP as brad mentioned

brimstead, Saturday, 5 September 2020 21:07 (one month ago) link

OK, I'm adding "Ruby" into my MCIS playlist (I can haz cred now?)

“Pizza House!” (morrisp), Tuesday, 8 September 2020 17:30 (one month ago) link

Lol so he ditched the "Shiny and Oh So Bright" continuing volume conceit already, even though he's keeping the similar artwork?

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 18 September 2020 17:04 (one month ago) link

that would be extremely in character of him, cf. oceania being a part of "teargarden by kaleidyscope"; the day for night project

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 18 September 2020 17:07 (one month ago) link

oh yeah, this is one artist that needs to stop announcing grand plans

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 18 September 2020 17:23 (one month ago) link

The one thing Gerard Way is always going to have over Billy: when the former comes up with ideas for grand schemes he actually DOES make comic books and TV series out of them.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 18 September 2020 17:29 (one month ago) link

Who are some other artists who reached dazzling, dizzying artistic heights with a singular, indelible sound for a 3-4 year period... and then fell way, way, way, all the way down but kept on trucking (and somehow garnering attention) for literal decades, like Billy Corgan? (Bonus points if they, too, also became reactionary lunatics in the process, too.)

Soundslike, Friday, 18 September 2020 17:44 (one month ago) link

Van Morrison?

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 18 September 2020 18:24 (one month ago) link

the working title for the new album was Shiny and Oh So Bright vol. 2 & 3 but completely unsurprising that billy got bored of that already

ufo, Saturday, 19 September 2020 00:56 (one month ago) link

lots of mid/late 70s and 80s van rules hard

brimstead, Saturday, 19 September 2020 01:29 (one month ago) link

Van Morrison had one last massive hit in the late 80’s. Will Corgan have a “Maria” in him?

Corgan’s career trajectory in the 21st century does fascinate me, though. His unbelievable hubris and ability to make an ass out of himself constantly is awe-inspiring

beamish13, Saturday, 19 September 2020 01:55 (one month ago) link

i used to be a little boy

origami condom (Neanderthal), Saturday, 19 September 2020 05:23 (one month ago) link

and two more

Nourry, Friday, 25 September 2020 16:25 (one month ago) link

"wrath" is excellent imo but as established in this thread i'm a fan of synth-pop bc especially when the hooks sit right ("death from above," which is zeitgeist-era, is one of my favorite songs he's written in the last two decades)

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 25 September 2020 16:38 (one month ago) link

i should adjust my language for other ppl's expectations: "wrath" is good for sp mk 2

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 25 September 2020 16:50 (one month ago) link

Underwhelmed by these new tracks.

More enthusiastically, there's a new Jimmy Chamberlin Complex album/ep 'Honor' out and it sounds great.

brain (krakow), Saturday, 26 September 2020 10:54 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Dare I say that 'Anno Santana' is probably the first SP song (Zwan excluded) in 20 years that sounds really good? I dareth.

Ilxor in the streets, Scampo in the sheets (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 16 October 2020 09:06 (one week ago) link

I haven't heard that one yet, time to check it out!

Full tracklist floating about. I can't be the only one slightly disappointed to see a 72 minute Pumpkins record without a 9 or 10 minutes plus epic anywhere. Although I'm sure my hopes for any good "Silverfuck" style jam are long gone.

1. "The Colour of Love" 4:24
2. "Confessions of a Dopamine Addict" 3:14
3. "Cyr" 4:03
4. "Dulcet in E" 3:22
5. "Wrath" 3:46
6. "Ramona" 3:48
7. "Anno Satana" 3:50
8. "Birch Grove" 3:17
9. "Wyttch" 3:44
10. "Starrcraft" 4:10
11. "Purple Blood" 3:19
12. "Save Your Tears" 3:31
13. "Telegenix" 3:23
14. "Black Forest, Black Hills" 4:42
15. "Adrennalynne" 3:42
16. "Haunted" 3:11
17. "The Hidden Sun" 3:24
18. "Schaudenfreud" 3:02
19. "Tyger, Tyger" 2:50
20. "Minerva" 3:33

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 16 October 2020 13:55 (one week ago) link


I think it's a bit meh. Oceania had a few really great songs, so I wouldn't say it's been a totally fallow 2 decades. (I also thought "Tarantula" was killer at the time, though my enthusiasm has waned over the years.)

Sam Weller, Friday, 16 October 2020 14:13 (one week ago) link

yeah those very uniform track lengths are weirdly dispiriting xp

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 16 October 2020 14:14 (one week ago) link

"adrennalynne" and "wyttch" lmao

i maintain that shiny & oh so bright is the only time they've occasionally sounded pretty good post-reunion

ufo, Friday, 16 October 2020 14:22 (one week ago) link

Mellon Collie was released 25 years ago today! Happy birthday. I was 13 and it opened up a cool world for me.

Billy announced a few things in a video yesterday:
1. He and Jimmy are in the studio working on a 33-song "sequel to Mellon Collie and Machina," the third in the "trilogy of stories involving a single character [ie, Zero, Glass, and now a third]". It's an "opus", "rock opera", etc.
2. Currently mixing Machina. Tracklist (minus extra cuts?) is "in the neighborhood of 50 to 51 songs".
3. They had planned to announce a "MCIS-themed" arena tour -- "a night built around that period of music...with a narrative arc...celebration of that time period...something with a conceptual base." Plan is to do that when possible.
4. Cyr (20 songs) is the next album, then the MCIS-Machina sequel, then the third Shiny album (10 songs) after that.

Sam Weller, Friday, 23 October 2020 07:58 (six days ago) link

the mellon collie/machina sequel album will absolutely not come out in anything resembling the form described. either he'll completely scrap it or repurpose whatever they're currently working on into a completely different project before too long

also "the third shiny album"? what's the second? what turned into cyr was originally supposed to be volumes 2 & 3 but i figured he'd just completely given up on whatever the concept was there as usual

ufo, Friday, 23 October 2020 08:02 (six days ago) link

also the machina/machina ii combined reissue being ~50 tracks just for the album itself sounds nightmarish lmao. not that i have any confidence that'll finally come out either. how long has it been in the works now?

ufo, Friday, 23 October 2020 08:10 (six days ago) link

Fwiw he did describe Cyr as the 2nd part of the Shiny series.

Sam Weller, Friday, 23 October 2020 08:12 (six days ago) link

It's an "opus", "rock opera", etc.

Love the "etc." here :)

I was sure to be the first in my local record store early morning to pick up MCIS. It came out on the 23rd but my local started selling it at Saturday the 21st already. Spotify's 'we're dumping the album here on Friday' just doesn't compare to the trve Release Day of yore!

Ilxor in the streets, Scampo in the sheets (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 23 October 2020 08:33 (six days ago) link

if they’re mixing it i’ll bet the machina reissue comes out. the more songs the better imo

rest of those projects sound like billy’s usual bullshit

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Friday, 23 October 2020 10:50 (six days ago) link

hoping that someone accidentally lost the masters for "heavy metal machine"

it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Friday, 23 October 2020 12:10 (six days ago) link

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