is there, anywhere, any record as lean and forceful as 'funhouse'?

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and why has such a blazing, powerful record only ever been released on CD with such a crappy mix?

matthew james, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

And who besides me has an LP copy with the gatefold cover?

Sean, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

You might dig this, then:....

http://www.rhinohandmade.com/Browse/BrowseOutOfPrintList.lassi?- database=HandmadeMaster5_remote&-layout=WDetail&-response=/browse/ productDetail.lasso&-recordID=48&-token.PartnerToken=&-search

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Hmmm. that link didn't quite work, but I'm talkin' about:

http://www.rhinohandmade.com/covers243/7707.jpg

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

sean i've got a gatefold sleeve lp version so :P

mark s, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

there's one without a gatefold?

dan, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

the lp sounds a lot better? this wasn't a rhetorical question, by the way. i need to start listenign to another record. i keep trying to listen to somehting else, but i have to stop pretending and put fun house back on. this has been going on for four years.

matthew james, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

And who besides me has an LP copy with the gatefold cover?

Seeing how it was just reissued last month with the gatefold, this isn't as hard a task as you'd think. I've always thought the gatefold pic was lame, so I'm glad it's not on my LP or CD versions. It's on the back of my Best of the Funhouse sessions LP, though.

As for if it sounds better on vinyl, yes. Yes it does. The CD sufficates Dave Alexander's bassline, the vinyl gives it its full sound. It's almost dub-like at times. You'll notice it a whole lot more on "Dirt" and especially when it disappears at the end of "TV Eye". The link above will take you to the new reissue, "from the original analogue masters, on 180 gram vinyl".

Vic Funk, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

ok so is there anyone out there that DOESNT like this record?

chaki, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Both my mother and my freshman year of college roommate loathe everything about it,.....which only makes it that much more crucial to me.

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah chaki, julio desouza doesnt like this record.

unknown or illegal user, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think its anything special. This is one of those rare records when I just cannot for the life of me fathom what all the fuss is about. It sounds like the Stones to me. More Kraut-style rhythym, maybe, but otherwise it seems like classic rock (compare "Loose" to "Brown Sugar.") Good classic rock, yes, but I've got a lot of that.

Mark, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i do tho.

unknown or illegal user, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"compare "Loose" to "Brown Sugar."

Then compare it to "Holidays In the Sun".

Nate Patrin, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Then compare "Holidays in the Sun" to the Jam's "In the City".

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

then subtract the number you 1st thought of

unknown or illegal user, Thursday, 15 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Then compare "Holidays in the Sun" to the Jam's "In the City".
what the hell??

Brock K., Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

ha ha ha -- mark you always crack me up with your funhouse sounds like the stones -- it was funny in pitchfork and its still funny now.

Jack Cole, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

is there, anywhere, any record as lean and forceful as 'funhouse'?

you forgot "overrated." sick of hearing about it. their best album was their first.

your null fame, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I used to be a big fan of Funhouse. It was a whole lot of fun. Prizes to be won! And the cheerleaders MADE it, I reckon. I think I liked the one who wasn't Melanie the best.

Hein?

Sarah, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

If they'd had Pat Sharp in on guest vocals, it would have been better.

Sarah, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

''yeah chaki, julio desouza doesnt like this record.''

damn bloody right I don't. And the 7CD 'sessions' that was put out is the biggest contrick that has been laid upon mankind though the ppl responsible for the miles davis back catalogue will make sure that this will not be the case for long by releasing everything he farted.

Lets got througfh this again. As a rock rec its merely 'good'. As a rock+free jazz thingy= dud and very annoying.

''is there, anywhere, any record as lean and forceful as 'funhouse'?''

There are a lot of truly great records that really bury Iggy pop and co that's for sure. You must try Borbetomagus' 'Seven Reasons for Tears', AMM's AMMMusic 1966 and finally masayuki takayanagi's 'New Directions' 'Call in Question' (PSFD-41). The first track of the latter is far more intense and visceral than anything the stooges could come up with.

Julio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I LIKE it when Starry dips a toe into ILM!

Dr. C, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

This is one of those rare records when I just cannot for the life of me fathom what all the fuss is about. It sounds like the Stones to me.

I gotta agree with Jack. It doesn't sound like you've heard this album at all. I mean, I love both bands more than most any other bands, but I cannot see any parallel between anything on Funhouse and anything the Stones ever released.

Vic Funk, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

the prob with seven whatsnames is that it pretends that "intense and visceral" are positions which work best when isolated from the rest of the stuff, ie that they are stand alone and can be self-explanatory (we are FEARLESS NOISE MONSTERS who NEVER VENTURE OUTSIDE OUR CAREFUL BASEMENTS: iggy keeps being rescued from what he is, which is funny and girly and sexy and frightened and light-touch hiccupping and all this great agile trivial yelp-burp gag- prank pop stuff he does a bazillion times better than nerdcore worker ants like borb

free jazz has also sometimes that but no one talks about it because it is "REVOLUTIONARY" ie serious boys-stuff stamp-collecting

mark s, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i make no apologies for the avant-garde word order of the start of my final par 4 I AM THE NOISEBEAST OF GRAMMAR!!

mark s, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"intense and visceral"

Fuck that shit. Does it rock or doesn't it?

Dave225, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

''the prob with seven whatsnames is that it pretends that "intense and visceral" are positions which work best when isolated from the rest of the stuff, ie that they are stand alone and can be self- explanatory (we are FEARLESS NOISE MONSTERS who NEVER VENTURE OUTSIDE OUR CAREFUL BASEMENTS''

its just the 'usual' argument. borbeto work in vaccum type stuff (never go outside the house etc).

''iggy keeps being rescued from what he is, which is funny and girly and sexy and frightened and light-touch hiccupping and all this great agile trivial yelp-burp gag- prank pop stuff he does''

whereas he goes outside the house, he plays the 'game', he 'engages' with the world and it does not matter if the world ridicules him etc.

I've heard this sort of argument before (though not in relation to borbetto and iggy) so please spare me.

what it comes down to is that when the guitar and sax combine in funhouse it does not do ANYTHING to this listener whereas when Borbeto go out on a bad day even then they really do SOMETHING to me. I believe borbetomagus have that essence of rock n' roll in them even though they don't sound like 'rock'. The stooges may have sounded good in 1970 (if only i could see them live: sometimes its the only way to 'get' things) but the recs make me yawn in 2002.

JUlio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

well i've never seen either (have borb evah played in the UK? i think they did once in the early 80s), but i know whose records i prefer

"spare me the argument" => julio you brought up the "intense + visceral" = "rock'n'roll" rubbish

iggy did lots of things borb couldn't do if they tried for a million years: viz dance and be funny and silly and pop, the things they are frightened wd dilute their Big Caps Scary Menace oooh

i think you're blaming the stooges for YOUR (and/or byron coley's) misconstrual of the rock+free jazz cliche

mark s, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Mark, would it make you uncomfortable if I built a small shrine to you in my room?

Alex in SF, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

''well i've never seen either (have borb evah played in the UK? i think they did once in the early 80s), but i know whose records i prefer''

I would have liked to see both live. records don't give you the whole picture. I have nevah seen borbeto but i know they played here sometime last year.

''"spare me the argument" => julio you brought up the "intense + visceral" = "rock'n'roll" rubbish''

the stooges work as rock n' roll but what I am talking about is that free jazz dimension to funhouse, which doesn't do much for me.

''iggy did lots of things borb couldn't do if they tried for a million years: viz dance and be funny and silly and pop, the things they are frightened wd dilute their Big Caps Scary Menace oooh''

In the same way Iggy wouldn't try stuff that borbeto does. Borbeto couldn't dance anyway as they play instruments whereas Iggy is a singer. what i am talking about is the sound that both bands make and that the sound that borbeto make is far gets far closer to rock n' roll for me (even though that is not what they try, they are not in the same ballpark I suppose but they make the 'blazing, powerful' recs that matthew talks about in the question) than the stooges.

''i think you're blaming the stooges for YOUR (and/or byron coley's) misconstrual of the rock+free jazz cliche''

I don't buy as this revolutionary type talk. There's great mujsic there but there are other areas where you can say the same. I haven't read byron's notes for seven reasons even. all of this 'new thing', 'fire music' (talking about david keenan here, haven't read much byron coley), all of that is just lazy.

Julio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Borbetamagus also played in the UK a cpl of years ago; they were supported by Ed Pinsent and Savage Pencil's group. But yeah, I agree w/ Mark - confusing 'intensity' w/ 'authenticity' is a mega-dud. I don't care if there are more bleating skronk fests out there (in fact I know there are) - 'Funhouse' works for me as a great POP-ROCK rec w/ a bit of extra sax (just like... I dunno... Essential Logic or X- Ray Spex or whatever...)

I can sort've see the Stones/Stooges sound similarities - both have some kind of relationship w/ r'n'b, both have 'funky drummers' - but there isn't a single Stones alb that I know of that sounds ANYTHING like 'Funhouse'.

My flatmate owns that 'Funhouse' box: it's really interesting to hear an alb, any alb, being put together. In the case of 'Funhouse', the Stooges wld just play through the songs, again and again and again, getting longer or shorter, tighter or more 'freeform' (30 diff. versions of 'Loose', mmmm...) Also, the rather posh English engineer heard at the start of some of the tracks is v. funny. It's prob. true that they picked the best 'versions' for the finished alb - but virtually every take has something going for it, inc. some v. far out and groovy Ron Asheton soloing that didn't make the final cut. You can also hear what a gd saxophonist Steve McKay was, esp. on the longer takes of 'Funhouse', where he gets up to all sorts of post- Coltrane trickery.

Also, most of the lyrics are terrific.

Andrew L, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

For some reason, I thought this thread was going to be about the Insane Clown Posse song.

Dan Perry, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

BorbGUH? (Cheers Dr. C!)

Sarah, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Borbetomagus is great, but Seven Reasons for Tears is definitely not their best, nor most "intense and visceral" album.

Regardless of that, Funhouse may be my favorite rock record ever. And I like the gatefold pic, wish I had another for display purposes

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

''But yeah, I agree w/ Mark - confusing 'intensity' w/ 'authenticity' is a mega-dud.''

not what i said. I said it gets closer to the heart of rock n'roll than 'funhouse'.

''Borbetomagus is great, but Seven Reasons for Tears is definitely not their best, nor most "intense and visceral" album.''

I was picking one that was available. 'New york performances' is really something but that is out of print. I am looking for 'snuff jazz' and 'zurich' but there isn't much hope to get those, i think. and yet the stooges have a 7CD box set of a really good 35 minute album.

NO FAIR!!!

Julio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

'New york performances' is really something but that is out of print. I am looking for 'snuff jazz' and 'zurich' but there isn't much hope to get those, i think.

I've got all of those, they're not hard to find. Also, Borbeto Jam and the first LP are worth having.

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, I'd say rhythm is essential to rock n' roll, which is why, unfortunately, Borbeto don't qualify (although they make some of my favorite music).

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

can you tell me where i can get them. email me off list or whatever if you can.

Julio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I got 'em at various record shops in this fine world of ours. I know that the first LP is in print on CD (try Forced Exposure), but I don't know about the other ones. Trawl eBay or your local second-hand shop, they'll probably turn up eventually.

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, Borbeto Jam is still in print, I think, from Cadence on LP. Use google to find their site. I think the 1st Borbeto/Voice Crack LP was on that label, too.

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Borbeto stuff available at Forced Exposure.

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i'll try second hand shops as i haven't gone back to them sice getting back to this country last saturday. hopefully i'll find it. thanks.

Julio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Cadence.

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

and yet the stooges have a 7CD box set of a really good 35 minute album.

You realise yr complaining aboot a ltd. to 3000 copies, available only over the Internet, box set that was sold out in six months, right, and not some mass produced item? It's not like there's this fictious huge demand for every scrap of sound that they made that you seem to want to convince people there is.

Vic Funk, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Not to mention Rhino Handmade pretty much manufactures on limited-run demand, that being the idea behind "handmade" and such.

hstencil, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

forgot it was limited edition. its just the 'idea' behind this is kinda ridiculous. thanks for the links hstencil.

Julio Desouza, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I fucked up w/ "Brown Sugar" -- I meant compare "Loose" w/ "Jumpin' Jack Flash." But anyway -- Iggy Pop worshiped the Doors, right? And considered joining the band after Morrison died?

I rest my case.

Mark, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I meant compare "Loose" w/ "Jumpin' Jack Flash."

Oh, well that's thrown the blinders off. Aside from the fact JJF is mid-tempo, and "Loose" is fast tempo'd and completely falls apart on itself mid-way through, they're the exact same song.

But anyway -- Iggy Pop worshiped the Doors, right? And considered joining the band after Morrison died?

The first one, as far as I know, is a myth. The second one is only partially right.

Ron Asheton: "We just wanted to experiment. We used to listen to Harry Partch, lots of Ravi Shankar. Shankar would be on all day. We also liked to listen to the Mothers of Invention so (you had) a little comedy in there! I also admired Frank Zappa, a really under-rated guitar player.

Any kind of strange music. Any electronic stuff. Also, I loved the Tibetan monks playing those great big horns. The big gongs and tambourines and the horns going RRRRRRRRRRRRR. And Gregorian chants. Iggy had a record of that and he loved it. "OK, let's see, we take Harry Partch, Buddhist music, Gregorian chants and try to throw in a little Stones and a little Beatles and see what happens." And then add our madness and our own inexpertise. When you don't know what to play, you're not restricted by a style. So many people are TAUGHT to play a certain way. When you have that free mind, ignorance IS bliss and you come up with some really interesting stuff.

The guy who was the manager of the Chosen Few was our manager before we got a record deal. He went to the Monterey Pop Festival and he came back with a Jimi Hendrix record. He woke me up when he got back. "I got this album you won't believe." He had these fat joints so we got stoned and he put it on. We wouldn't give him the record back for three days. "Alright, now we got another..." So that was the start and basically, we just plugged away."

That doesn't sound like Doors worship at all. Hmm, you think perhaps Elektra's staff made up the Doors worship to sell a few extra records?

Iggy didn't consider joining the Doors. After the Stooges broke up, he had nothing better to do, and Ray Manzerek had nothing else to do, so someone suggested they try something together, and nothing became of that.

That was some closed case.

Vic Funk, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

actually, vic, I've read Iggy interviews where he's said that the Doors were an influence -- proving, I guess, you can occasionally turn shit into gold.

Jack Cole, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

of course, that doesnt mean that Iggy isnt being revisionist about his own history, too.

Jack Cole, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

See with me this is ONE OF THE ONLY old records that I can see what all the fuss is about, what a fucking album, it still actually has some energy after however many years, and LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORD at the start of TV Eye is the greatest moment of all.

Ronan, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Ronan's OTM. There's plenty of hay to be made over who is rawer, truer, whether bluesy rock aggression is good or bad and who did it worst etc etc etc... but jesus if the vocals on FH don't sting. They are in the red and really drummy (everything on the album is a percussion instrument, come to think). Iggy's first two animal locutions on "Down on the Street": HIC! WRAAGH! ...terrific.

GCannon, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I've read Iggy interviews where he's said that the Doors were an influence -- proving, I guess, you can occasionally turn shit into gold.

I'm not saying in no uncertain terms Iggy was not influenced by the Doors, but, aside from "Ann", you probably wouldn't be able to tell, and the records that Asheton has listed (well, maybe not the Mothers), certainly would seem to be far more influential on the sounds of the first record.

Although, Iggy's whole life seems to revolve around "Louie Louie".

Vic Funk, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

no disagreements here -- you about summed it up. i believe we are on the same page of the Fodor's Stooges Tourbook.

jack cole, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORD

See to me that sounds like a R'n'R cliche, I prefer the "Baby baby" stuff in Zep's "You Shook Me All Night Long" b/c it seems to have some humor in it. But my brainless cracks are really just a sign of my own frustration -- I feel like I usually have a pretty good radar re this kind of stuff & it's not working for the Stooges. Mostly I want to figure out why for my own purposes. Part of it might come from my general distaste for these nihilist drug guys, but I dunno.

Mark, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

iggy: "i guess you could call me jim jagger. or mick morrison."

matthew james, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

The Stooges "Funhouse" is totally pure, and spews from the guts and souls of these truly rare & unique artists who were many decades ahead of their time. Listen to it, digest it and then listen to it again and again. Soak it in. You will never, ever experience a sonic onslaught like the one created by this legendary album of the highest order. "Funhouse" will forever be appreciated more and more as the sands of time trickle away. Only a depressed idiot of the highest magnitude would criticize this album (or the band) in a negative light. Part of the genius of the Stooges is that only a "precious few" can hear & feel the sacred magic in their timeless works. You can bet your life and soul that this album will be treasured one thousand years from now and beyond because it ranks in the upper echilon of Earth's many masterpieces...and Iggy Pop will always be remembered as one of the most electrifying frontmen in the history of music.

Venga, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Hyerk hyerk. Not my own work....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000005IU2/qid=1029531639/sr=2- 2/ref=sr_2_2/102-3032615-8050518

Venga, Friday, 16 August 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link


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