It's like he wants us to acknowledge some intrinsic qualities that the favorable reviews noted but we're somehow missing.
― look at it, pwn3d, made u look at my peen/vadge (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 29, 2010 4:46 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark
no, like i said, im not here to argue w/ ryan dombal because hes not here to argue with, you guys are.
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:48 (thirteen years ago) link
"power" is wonderful, always happy to hear it. one of the album's best pop moments, at least from over here. a couple funny lyrics (and a TON of shitty ones), committed delivery, great beat, weird production, awesome sample. plus it runs under five minutes, a model of restraint by this album's standards. only about half a minute too long.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:48 (thirteen years ago) link
i can disagree with a review's conclusions about overall quality & like the review (nitsuhs) or agree w/ the overall evaluation but think its dishonestly written (lex's) or disagree with both (ryan's)
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:49 (thirteen years ago) link
"dishonest" seems... strong
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:49 (thirteen years ago) link
lol "dishonest", that's what i expect from the commenters beneath my reviews
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:50 (thirteen years ago) link
link me to your post in this enormous thread. i seem to recall you conflating it w/ being ground-breaking or equating it w/ prog's GOALS rather than prog's CHARACTERISTICS but that might be a faulty memory
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, November 29, 2010 5:25 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i was taking it in the broadest most abstract sense because if you compare it to what prog rock acts tend to do on a technical level with song structure, time signatures, harmony, etc. the "prog rap" comparison makes even less sense.
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 22:51 (thirteen years ago) link
but these mostly just seem like beats that overstay their welcome...
ha! how many post-Bangs rock writers might have said this about prog?
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:52 (thirteen years ago) link
name a prog rock song that works the same basic melody/tempo/drums for 9 minutes straight like "Runaway"
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 22:53 (thirteen years ago) link
I haven't read Lex's review so I'm not going to specifically talk about it, but the problem I had with the Pitchfork view wasn't that it was positive, it was that it was playing at empiricism that wasn't there. Nitsuh's works better because there is a concrete subjective argument about why he found the album appealing that works well as value-neutral description of the album.
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:53 (thirteen years ago) link
lol for "positive" substitute "nauseatingly effusive"
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:54 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, November 29, 2010 4:51 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
like i said this was more about the rockist framing in a hongro style than anything else -- the entire album-as-album-art part of prog, not the "hmm they did this one in 6/8 time" (although the **slow burner** kanye / minaj hawaii discussion about taking their rapping to the *next level* could easily qualify)
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:54 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, November 29, 2010 4:53 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
rap beats are based around repetition. this would make sense.
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:55 (thirteen years ago) link
the only thing I would even consider putting a half-hearted "prog" label on is "Hell of a Life" strictly for the polyrhythms
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:55 (thirteen years ago) link
so now you're arguing approvingly for a rockist/hongro mindset you don't share, much in the same way you won't bear to let people talk down on the album you don't like that much
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 22:56 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah rap beats are based on repetition...which is why a "prog rap" record would have a completely different rhythmic/song structure than a traditional rap record, which this doesn't, hence it's a traditional rap record with a fancy bow on top.
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 22:57 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm just going to repost this and ask deej if this is what he is reacting to in these reviews and why he's bringing in terms like "dishonest".
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:57 (thirteen years ago) link
i wouldnt read the prog rap thing as anything more than a gen rockisty framework rather than an exact parallel for prog. freestyle fellowship: prog rap??
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:57 (thirteen years ago) link
it was that it was playing at empiricism that wasn't there
all of the reviews i've read are doing this! since half these songs were months ago and the hype has been building longer than that, i'm pretty sure most critics had made up their mind about this album (and probably written half their respective reviews) waaaaaaay before they heard the album proper
xpost can't believe you fuckers are still talking about this "prog rap" red herring
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:58 (thirteen years ago) link
all of the reviews i've read are doing this!
see, this makes me glad that I'm avoiding reviews
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:59 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, November 29, 2010 4:57 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this isnt logical. prog rap doesnt have to be about the rhythmic/song structure -- it could easily be about a more abstract approach to the music
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:59 (thirteen years ago) link
NO ONE REALLY THINKS THIS IS "PROG"
its obv just a shortcut for saying long songs + self-indulgence
duh
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:32 AM (6 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
+ "there's a King Crimson sample on one song"
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:32 AM (6 days ago) Bookmark
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 29 November 2010 22:59 (thirteen years ago) link
my brother did a prog-rap track that sampled a section of a Rush song in 13/8; his group used to do it with a live funk band and it was pretty tite
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:03 (thirteen years ago) link
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, November 29, 2010 5:57 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
see all you're saying, over and over, is "I think this term is meaningless so I don't think you can question the way anyone uses it, that is my rule"
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 23:03 (thirteen years ago) link
i.e. freestyle fellowship's approach to rap acrobatics or kanye's approach to creating extended rap songs w/ instrumental weirdo outros -- but again yr reading wayy too much into the 'prog' comparisons, imo it was used as an example of a loose rockist framework for pretentious album creations
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:04 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean we can all agree that "emo" is a horrible cringe-inducing term but it wouldn't be wrong to raise an eyebrow if someone called the Waka Flocka album "emo rap" or something
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 23:04 (thirteen years ago) link
does nickalicious still post here? dude was prog rap to the bone.
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:04 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, November 29, 2010 5:03 PM (48 seconds ago) Bookmark
no, youre saying "definitions are inflexible & prog only means exactly one thing"
so...i say the "prog rap" thing is just a label people use to describe the way the album is packaged/marketed in the broadest terms, and you agree but take 20 posts of disagreeing to come around to saying so?
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 23:05 (thirteen years ago) link
it could easily be about a more abstract approach to the music
such as what, precisely, on this album?
― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:05 (thirteen years ago) link
― some dude, Monday, November 29, 2010 5:05 PM (35 seconds ago) Bookmark
hey man whatever backflips you have to do so you still come out 'right' in this argument
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:06 (thirteen years ago) link
not everything grandiose was prog. sergeant pepper's, derek and the dominos weren't prog, just "big". meatloaf had long songs and a story and the whole bit, i don't think ppl called him prog back then either.
i still haven't heard this record, i dunno, this argument is doing my head in already
lol xps n/a
― first as tragedy, then as favre (goole), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:06 (thirteen years ago) link
fwiw this argument is completely unrelated to the actual album and is just personalities deciding not to get along
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:09 (thirteen years ago) link
the prog rap tag is garbage no matter how you slice it. there's no shortage of rap albums that work with loosely defined concepts, that display musical/artistic ambition, that reach much farther beyond the conventional bounds of the genre than MBDTF. and "prog rap" hasn't been glued to them, so why stick it on this?
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:10 (thirteen years ago) link
well, the original cover art depicted Kanye fucking a phoenix, ergo it's prog
― Yeezy reupholstered my pussy (DJP), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:10 (thirteen years ago) link
Latyrx is prog rap.
― altered boners (rennavate), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:11 (thirteen years ago) link
if roger dean drew kanye fucking a phoenix we'd be in business
― kl0pper city in the ghetto (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 29 November 2010 23:12 (thirteen years ago) link
ok goole and contenderizer said it better than i could have
― some dude, Monday, 29 November 2010 23:32 (thirteen years ago) link
a week in, i'm surprised to find myself enjoying this record more and more with each listen. figured it'd be something i'd enjoy intensely but very briefly, a bright blip. its rewards are proving a little deeper than that. after about 20 listens, the songs between the middle and the final stretch that seemed dull to me on the first few passes have opened up, to the point where i genuinely like every song on here. and i'm not yet tired of the front-end tracks i loved so much on the first pass. this despite the frequently atrocious lyrics and generally repellent "narrative persona" throughout. only thing i routinely skip is the chris rock bit.
― phish in your sleazebag (contenderizer), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:00 (thirteen years ago) link
n/a said it better than i could have \oO/
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:29 (thirteen years ago) link
captain save-a-progs itt
fwiw this record strikes me in a singularly pretentious way as fitting the epic-ness crossed with arty pretention of a 'prog rap album' the way diddy's epic-ness or mf doom's art-y pretention never could
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:30 (thirteen years ago) link
in conclusion no this doesnt have the exact DNA of prog but it totally makes sense as a tossed off summary of this record's epic scope / pretentiousness
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:31 (thirteen years ago) link
I dunno much about prog but I don't see how this is prog specifically aside from the cover art -- deej I feel like you're constructing an incredibly amorphous definition of the term and the qualities of this album that are 'different' could be described more accurately tho maybe less sensationally
― jagger reupholstered my pussy (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:35 (thirteen years ago) link
the reason its 'amorphous' is bcuz its a tossed off generalization
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:36 (thirteen years ago) link
but still feels close enough to the sort of laboriousness of the project. i think its weird that the haters are the ones arguing against the term frankly
Like I think you could just say that it's epic in scale and pretentious and save the whole discussion about the other parts of prog and it would only take three more words
― jagger reupholstered my pussy (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:37 (thirteen years ago) link
& 'i'm' not constructing this, lots of ppl itt were saying this was kanye's prog record so....
― lotta diamonds ... but prolly more display names (deej), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:37 (thirteen years ago) link
― jagger reupholstered my pussy (J0rdan S.), Monday, November 29, 2010 6:37 PM (8 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think al was the one who brought this up & started making little pedantic contradictions
see this is where a mod with a good sense of humor would have autoreplaced "prog" with something obnoxious by this point
― overtheseas aeroplanes I have flown (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:39 (thirteen years ago) link
But why do we need tossed off generalities?
― jagger reupholstered my pussy (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 30 November 2010 00:39 (thirteen years ago) link