Ornette Coleman: Classic Or Dud?

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Not pop as such, but at a direct tangent (Beefheart to Kid A via Kool Keith) as a sonic sculpture. Am asking with specific reference to "The Complete Science Fiction Sessions" and "Tone Dialing" albums as they impinge upon and sometimes still overtake similar rock manoeuvres.

Marcello Carlin, Sunday, 29 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Classic. If not for "Lonely Woman" alone, for having balls like few in jazz history.

The balls are classic; the horn skronk is classic; the man is simply classic.

Keiko, Sunday, 29 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

For "Virgin Beauty", "Skies of America" and "Free Jazz", classic.

Behold the skronk. None more skronk. For those about to skronk. Etc, etc.

Michael Jones, Sunday, 29 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd be surprised if anyone had heard enough of his massive disco. to make a call. I have two of his records: The Shape Of Jazz To Come is a classic, Free Jazz is (sorry) a dud.

Mark, Sunday, 29 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

You don't have to hear the whole catalogue to call the balls classic.

Keiko, Sunday, 29 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Don't know the particular albs you're referring to Marcello, but Classic all the same, esp. for the Atlantic quartet albs which, in their own way, truly 'rock' (I'd agree with Mark that 'Free Jazz' is a bit of a dud - I'm not really convinced by Coleman's large scale compositions.) Listening to 'The Shape of Jazz to Come' or 'This is our Music' now, it's hard to see what all the fuss was about - as Gil Evans put it, "He swings, and he's got a good feeling for melody." Of the later albums I'd single out 'Dancing in Your Head', a kind of mutant 'world funk' that anticipates the Prime Time stuff and features the Master Musicians of Joujouka.

Andrew, Monday, 30 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The "Science Fiction" sessions are cool but I can't really say I've listened to enough Ornette to offer an opinion on his classicness or dudness. I should note that I don't really listen to "Free Jazz" that much. It's a lot tougher to listen to, though, so maybe I should try harder. I dig John Zorn's Sci-Fi-era-Coleman appropriations quite a bit, though.

Josh, Monday, 30 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

"Lonely Woman" is an achingly gorgeous song. I know more about Coleman in theory than I do in practice, though. I should recitfy that.

Dan Perry, Monday, 30 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Mike: what are you on about? I feel that it must be interesting and worthwhile, seeing as it's you that's on about it.

the pinefox, Monday, 30 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Mark and Andrew: why do you think Free Jazz is a dud? (And what, if anything, do you think of Coltrane's Ascension?)

charlie va, Monday, 30 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I do like "Ascension" a lot more than "Free Jazz." The thing about Free Jazz is that it did away with chord structure and so forth, but had yet to incorporate the textural/timbral innovations of people like Coltrane and Albert Ayler (Dolphy had a bit of it, but not as much as he would later), which is what makes "free" music interesting to me. All the instruments on Free Jazz are played in the same way they had been prior to doing away with chords, so they sound kind of lost wandering around inside the track. While on Ascension, everyone is overblowing and freaking out, and you have this dark, overwhelming wall of sound coming at you. I can't listen to Ascension much, it has such a specific mood, but I'd definitely rate it higher.

Mark, Monday, 30 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

What Mark said, plus the fact that 'Free Jazz' sounds surprisingly structured despite its title - underneath all the bluster there's the rather standard solo, response, solo etc. form that typifies 'non-free' jazz. 'Ascension' isn't my fave late period Coltrane either - I prefer 'Interstellar Space' if we're talking way, way out - and for 'big band' free skronk I'll take the Brotzmann Octet's 'Machine Gun' over both 'Free Jazz' and 'Ascension', a real blast of 'horrible noise' that can still clear a room.

Andrew, Monday, 30 April 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Clearly "Live at The Golden Circle" does it for me. Also "This is Our Music".

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I have to speak up for Free Jazz - it's really only Freddie Hubbard who can't break out of the shell. I don't know, I love Ornette, mostly for Shape Of Jazz To Come and Free Jazz but Skies Of America and Change Of The Century need mentioning too.

Dave M., Thursday, 3 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The weird thing is how mild-mannered Freddie Hubbard is the only musician to appear on both "Free Jazz" and "Ascension" (though surely Dolphy would've been on the latter had he lived). And what the heck happened to Dewey Johnson?

Marcello Carlin, Thursday, 3 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Ornette at 12; Golden Circle 1&2; Who's Crazy, In Europe Vol.2; Science Fiction; Dancing in Your Head; Of Human Feelings

(from Free Jazz to Massive Disco... )

So not dud

mark s, Thursday, 3 May 2001 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

three years pass...
Anyone else see the show at Carnegie Hall tonight? I thought it was pretty stunning, but it was the first time I'd ever seen him and I'm pretty much a newbie on Ornette (only have "The Shape of Jazz..."), so I don't have any sense of whether it was a particularly great show or just a normally great one. Interesting quartet: him, his son on drums, and two bass players (one of them bowing the whole time, giving a kind of orchestra-rehearsing-in-the-next-room undertone to the whole thing and sometimes doing almost call-and-response with Ornette's sax).

Abbey Lincoln's opening set was a little disappointing. She shows her age more than him.

spittle (spittle), Monday, 21 June 2004 06:35 (sixteen years ago) link

I didn't go last night, but that's the same quartet he had last year and that was one of the greatest shows I've ever seen in my life.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 21 June 2004 14:14 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, this one definitely fit that bill for me. I'm still tingling.

spittle (spittle), Monday, 21 June 2004 14:20 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm not going to say dud since I am too respectful and there's too much I haven't heard, but I don't like Ornette Coleman's music, including the little pieces like "Congeniality" and similar songs I've heard, Free Jazz, Song X and some other stuff. I guess I used to like Prime Time when I was a lot younger, but I don't especially like it now. Nothing I've ever heard by Coleman currently grabs me.

Rockist Scientist, Monday, 21 June 2004 14:31 (sixteen years ago) link

I like most of what I've heard. It does strike me as a bit too discursive in some ways. I do prefer Beefheart's electric to Coleman's electric, although there are some sharp moments on "Dancing in Your Head" and "Body Meta" and "Tone Dialing," those being the albums I know best. Also parts of "Skies of America" are quite fine. I suppose there is a structure inherent in what he does, but I confess I need more structure sometimes. He can be a great melodist. I'd like to hear him confined a bit more. But sure, classic all the way.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:04 (sixteen years ago) link

I think lyrical is an even better word than melodic, although he's both. What struck me during the show last night was however dense and busy and rumbly the music got down below, Ornette always seemed to be kind of floating on top of it, with these beautiful little runs and phrases, constantly turning corners that weren't obviously there until he turned them, and the whole thing seemed elegantly musical even though from any objective perspective it was hard to tell what the hell was going on (the music kind of erased the possibility of "objective" appreciation, I think -- you either had to go with it or get the hell out, as some number of Abbey Lincoln fans did early on in Ornette's set).

spittle (spittle), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:28 (sixteen years ago) link

(that Ornette Coleman at 74 could still chase bluehairs out of Carnegie Hall was one of the show's amusing sidelights -- especially since he's older than most of the people he chased out)

spittle (spittle), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:31 (sixteen years ago) link

Some of my favorite semi-forgotten Ornette albums are In All Languages and Colors: Live In Leipzig. The latter is duos with pianist Joachim Kuhn. In All Languages is great because you get pretty much the same set of songs performed by the acoustic quartet, and then by Prime Time. Don Cherry is playing electric trumpet at some points, and it sounds fantastic. Well worth picking up.

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 21 June 2004 16:50 (sixteen years ago) link

"I think lyrical is an even better word than melodic, although he's both. What struck me during the show last night was however dense and busy and rumbly the music got down below, Ornette always seemed to be kind of floating on top of it, with these beautiful little runs and phrases, constantly turning corners that weren't obviously there until he turned them, and the whole thing seemed elegantly musical even though from any objective perspective it was hard to tell what the hell was going on (the music kind of erased the possibility of "objective" appreciation, I think -- you either had to go with it or get the hell out, as some number of Abbey Lincoln fans did early on in Ornette's set). "

Great description! Another one I forgot, "Song X" with Pat M.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 21 June 2004 17:51 (sixteen years ago) link

It's always been a source of embarrassment & insecurity on my part that I've never liked Ornette much, despite liking all the new-thing '60s guys who followed in his wake. Good composer ("Lonely Woman", "Ramblin'", etc.), but he had a habit of hitting notes sharp, which (in theory) is part of what made him such an innovator; but in practice often irritated me. Who knows, maybe it was just that weird plastic alto of his? (Ironically, I found his untrained violin playing less harsh on my ears!) Everyone else likes him, so it's gotta be just a personal weakness on my part; all I know is that I much prefer Eric Dolphy or Jackie McLean as '60s altoists. I've owned a half-dozen Ornettes (recorded over a 20-year period) over the years and never completely warmed to any of 'em. As it is, I own Dancing In My Head and the Ken Burns collection (which thoughtfully includes the shorter alternate "Free Jazz" take) and I'll stick with those two. I'm too mistrustful of my own ignorant opinion (and like "Lonely Woman" too much) to say "Dud", so instead I'll say "Classic - with extreme personal reservations." And hmmmm, wonder if I'd like Ornette On Tenor more than the others? (Fond recollections of a track from In All Languages on which Ornette played tenor.)

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:21 (sixteen years ago) link

Duh, that should be Dancing In YOUR Head, not My Head.
"Pronoun Trouble", as Daffy Duck would say!

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 21 June 2004 19:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Denardo is the shit!

Sonny aaaaaa, Monday, 21 June 2004 20:34 (sixteen years ago) link

three years pass...

anyone recommend seeing him live these days? am thinking about going tonight...

titchyschneiderMk2, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:00 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm definitely going tonight. May or may not see you there!

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:02 (thirteen years ago) link

ill be in the balcony cheap seats. ornette is probably worth forking out 35-40 quid for.

titchyschneiderMk2, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:03 (thirteen years ago) link

definitely. i saw his abbreviated set at bonnaroo last month and he sounded great right up until he collapsed. seeing him now is not some nostalgia trip, he's still doin magic.

tipsy mothra, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:11 (thirteen years ago) link

I saw him ~3 years ago and would do so again in a heartbeat. Even for $80 or so, which is more than I've ever paid for a concert.

Oilyrags, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:13 (thirteen years ago) link

I've never seen him and it pains me. Just bought "Of human feelings" and "This is our music" on vinyl the other day and uploaded to a certain swine related site. The final paragraph in the notes on the back of the "This is our music" vinyl are quite classic.

"About myself. I'm thirty years of age and was born in Texas - Fort Worth to be exact. Since there isn't too much I haven't told you about my music, I really told you about myself through it. The other autobiography of my life is like everyone else's. Born, work, sad and happy and etc. We do hope you enjoy our music."

jim, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:17 (thirteen years ago) link

is quite classic even, bah.

jim, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:18 (thirteen years ago) link

ok im going now. paid the most i think ive ever paid for a ticket but ive always wanted to see him so cant wait.

titchyschneiderMk2, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:19 (thirteen years ago) link

Beefheart to Kid A via Kool Keith

please to essprain

cutty, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:20 (thirteen years ago) link

Never apologise, never explain.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:27 (thirteen years ago) link

yeah probably in your best interests

cutty, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link

2001 was such a funny place

cutty, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:34 (thirteen years ago) link

does anyone know, when they say at the RFH it starts at 7.30pm does that mean doors open at that time or that the support is on at that time?

titchyschneiderMk2, Monday, 9 July 2007 14:56 (thirteen years ago) link

I would love to see him play sometime. I only own Change of the Century, Shape of Jazz to Come, Free Jazz, and Science Fiction, but based off of those four, completely classic. Science Fiction in particular is fantastic.

Z S, Monday, 9 July 2007 17:59 (thirteen years ago) link

Yeah, I'd love it if he made it out to my neck of the woods sometime in the near future. I'd probably pay a pretty penny! He is indeed super-classic, though I haven't heard a lot of the Prime Time era stuff. Love the early stuff, Science Fiction and have just (after a year or two of having it) fallen heavy for Tone Dialing. Sort of hated it at first, but it's made a big impression the last few listens. Ridiculously melodic, shimmering production -- I'm even coming around to liking the raps!

tylerw, Monday, 9 July 2007 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link

royce hall los angeles 9/26 on sale to non-subscribers 7/23. be there!

dan, Monday, 9 July 2007 19:47 (thirteen years ago) link

Now that's what I call music!

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 10 July 2007 08:09 (thirteen years ago) link

That was the first time I'd seen him, can't think of anything clever to say other than wow. I can't work out if Denardo can actually play or not, but it seems to work so who cares? I believe they call that "some next level shit".

Can someone explain harmolodics to me?

Matt #2, Tuesday, 10 July 2007 09:01 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't think anyone's really managed to explain harmolodics, apart from the basic premise (see Litweiler's The Freedom Principle) that (in theory) you improvise continuously on the melody rather than its harmonies and (in practice) everybody solos all the time and tries to keep out of everybody else's way. In my time I have asked Don Cherry, Dewey Redman and Charlie Haden what harmolodics involved and they couldn't really explain it either. But then it feels good and sounds right (even if it's "wrong") so I guess that's what counts.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 10 July 2007 09:30 (thirteen years ago) link

I saw him many years ago (late 80s? early 90s?) at the Nottingham Royal Concert Hall, with Prime Time. Had no idea what to expect, and didn't know the first thing about harmolodics. Clearly, neither did the vast majority of the audience - I've never seen so many walk-outs at a music show (although a sell-out screening of Fellini's Casanova where a good 25% of the audience walked out still holds the record for that one).

They played for, God, what was it, must have been at least two and a half hours without a break. Yes, everybody soloed all the time, with (seemingly) multiple concurrent time signatures and harmonic clashes, and the result was a pretty dense and relentless squall - and yet played with such calm, centred expressions.

I was determined to sit it out and not to give in. So I sat there for the first two hours feeling fairly bemused - and then, and THEN, for the last half hour everything suddenly snapped into place in my head and I found myself utterly rapt and transported. I remember Ornette switching to violin for the final piece, only I had my eyes closed at the time - fuck, what's THAT? - and opened them to see him demonically scraping all hell out of the instrument.

About a quarter of the remaining audience gave them a stander at the end - the rest just looked dazed. Vivid memory of the big hairy dude on the sound desk stretched back in his seat as we filed out, with a massive blissed out grin on his face, like he was still buzzing off some humungous spliff.

I've never bought any Ornette Coleman albums. The experience was complete as it stood.

mike t-diva, Tuesday, 10 July 2007 09:45 (thirteen years ago) link

i went last night. im not sure if i enjoyed it. im not even sure if i thought it was 'good'. i dont have loads of his albums, only a few, but i like them. last night though, im not so sure about.

titchyschneiderMk2, Tuesday, 10 July 2007 10:26 (thirteen years ago) link

i did think 'emperors new clothes' quite a few times actually.

titchyschneiderMk2, Tuesday, 10 July 2007 10:27 (thirteen years ago) link

And a very rouching report of the funeral by Howard Mandel in the new Wire.

anthony braxton diamond geezer (anagram), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 13:41 (five years ago) link

touching, even

anthony braxton diamond geezer (anagram), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 13:41 (five years ago) link

Dude, I read that as Howard Mandel's funeral and was very confused

like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 14:49 (five years ago) link

yeah that post was not my finest piece of work, sry

anthony braxton diamond geezer (anagram), Tuesday, 14 July 2015 14:53 (five years ago) link

eight months pass...

From '75, an Arista 2-LP I don't remember at all, though I called myself keeping up with him in the 70s---anybody heard it? Several other OC LPs here, ones I've got, and ones from other artists:
https://soundsoftheuniverse.com/product/ornette-coleman-the-great-london-concert

dow, Monday, 14 March 2016 22:09 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

Some Saturday nights there were barn dances, way out in Elgin or Sonoita. In barns. Everybody from miles and miles would go, old people, young people, babies, dogs. Guests from dude ranches. All of the women brought things to eat. Fried chicken and potato salad, cakes and pies and punch. The men would go out in bunches and hang around their pickups, drinking. Some women too, my mother always did. High school kids got drunk and threw up, got caught necking. Old ladies danced with each other and children. Everybody danced.
Two-step mostly, but some slow dances and jitterbug. Some square dances and Mexican dances like La Varsoviana. In English it's "Put your little foot, put your little foot right there," and you skip and whirl around. They played everything from "Night and Day" to "Detour, There's a Muddy Road Ahead," "Jalisco no te Rajas" to "Do the Hucklebuck." Different bands every night but the same kind of mix.
Where did these raging wonderful musicians come from? Pachuco horns and guitar players, big-hatted country guitarists, bebop drummers, piano-players that looked like Fred Astaire. The closest I ever heard anything come close to those little bands was at the Five Spot in the late fifties. Ornette Coleman's "Ramblin'." Everybody raving how new and far-out he was. Sounded Tex-Mex to me, like a good Sonoita hoedown.

------Lucia Berlin, "Homing"

dow, Thursday, 5 May 2016 16:12 (four years ago) link

four months pass...

Or if you have a bit ore money: https://thebluemoment.com/2016/09/13/harmolodics-the-truth-at-last/ (this is interesting I think, though I'm nowhere near musically knowledgeable enough to make proper sense of it).

Tim, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 08:57 (four years ago) link

was just jamming To Whom Keeps A Record this morning
Side A
1. Music Always
2. Brings Goodness
3. To Us
4. All

Side B
1. P.S. Unless One Has
2. Some Other
3. Motive for Its Use

tylerw, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 16:16 (four years ago) link

saw the Made in America doc recently, captures his essence nicely it seems

The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 September 2016 16:24 (four years ago) link

yeah! i just rewatched that -- some really great stuff in there, and an appropriate overall approach. aways surprised when i hear ornette's speaking voice for some reason.

tylerw, Wednesday, 14 September 2016 16:26 (four years ago) link

love that movie- it really cemented my love for him

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 14 September 2016 17:43 (four years ago) link

just watched that last night, a bunch of stuff I had no idea about like the connections to Fuller and Gysin and um circumcision vs. castration

Οὖτις, Thursday, 22 September 2016 19:22 (four years ago) link

Got two live albums - Live in Paris 1971 and 1987 Hamburg Concert - on the way. That 1987 one is from when he reunited with the 1959-60 quartet (Don Cherry, Charlie Haden, Billy Higgins) and recorded In All Languages. The 1971 disc has Dewey Redman, Haden, and Ed Blackwell.

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Thursday, 22 September 2016 19:31 (four years ago) link

three months pass...

Premium box set, vinyl & CD/DVD: all performances (incl. his, unscheduled), from Celebrate Ornette, along with all from the memorial: http://www.ornettecoleman.com/#section-premium-box-set

dow, Sunday, 8 January 2017 20:33 (three years ago) link

Nice! That's mighty tempting.

I really hope the price drops on this:
http://www.amazon.com/Free-Jazz-Harmolodics-Ornette-Coleman/dp/1138122947/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483915727&sr=1-1&keywords=ornette

Wimmels, Sunday, 8 January 2017 22:50 (three years ago) link

I'm intrigued by the site's teaser of future releases of as-yet unrleased material. Hopefully it will help fill some of the huge holes in Ornette's career in the latter years.

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 9 January 2017 15:07 (three years ago) link

Yeah, I don't know what they've ("they" being Denardo) got in mind, but I know, for example, that a 2003 concert I saw at Carnegie Hall - which was the debut of the Ornette/Tony Falanga/Greg Cohen/Denardo band - was recorded and had been planned for release, but was scrapped. Maybe that will emerge now.

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 9 January 2017 15:24 (three years ago) link

Yeah I hope it's not just a one-man operation that peters out due to percieved lack of interest. By the look of the typography, the recent RSD re-release of The European Concert was a Song X release as well, so mayb e it's a bit more put together than I'd think.

great Canadian prog-psych debut from 1969 (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 9 January 2017 15:38 (three years ago) link

one year passes...

A fine discovery and comment from the original interviewer:

I had no idea this, from 1972, had survived in the BBC archive. Ornette Coleman was a pure and gracious spirit, and a marvellous talker. Sorry about the dumb questions, but at least I kept them short. https://t.co/fA92s4q5xJ

— Richard Williams (@rwilliams1947) April 8, 2018

Ned Raggett, Monday, 9 April 2018 18:16 (two years ago) link

yeah! never seen this clip before ... Richard Williams' blog is always full of good stuff: https://thebluemoment.com/

tylerw, Monday, 9 April 2018 18:22 (two years ago) link

Oh, don't do that to me...

Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Monday, 9 April 2018 18:24 (two years ago) link

"now, back to manfred mann's earth band ... "

tylerw, Monday, 9 April 2018 18:26 (two years ago) link

I think Richard Williams must be the only decent Sports writer I've ever seen who is also brilliant on music as well.

calzino, Monday, 9 April 2018 22:04 (two years ago) link

That was a great interview, and I'm especially fascinated because it's about Skies of America, and I just wrote a piece about Ornette's chamber and orchestral music a couple of weeks ago.

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 9 April 2018 23:54 (two years ago) link

one year passes...

I found myself spinning Skies of America this morning for the first time in a long while and came on to see how others rated it, and just read Phil’s write up of it along with the chamber pieces, which I’m listening to now. Very illuminating!

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 7 March 2020 18:57 (six months ago) link

It's probably the album I've listened to the most over the past four years. Make of that what you will.

Waifu-ed Around and Fell in Love (Old Lunch), Saturday, 7 March 2020 20:31 (six months ago) link

the Ornette Coleman I've listened to most in recent years is Crisis .. and it grows and grows every time I listen to it, what a fucking band.

calzino, Saturday, 7 March 2020 22:22 (six months ago) link

I don’t know that I’ve ever heard it! I need to remedy that.

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 8 March 2020 00:29 (six months ago) link

Recently reissued on CD as a twofer with Ornette At 12, which is also very much worth hearing.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 8 March 2020 01:01 (six months ago) link

'ornette at 12' is one of my faves. also 'at the golden circle' and the 'naked lunch' soundtrack

Bstep, Sunday, 8 March 2020 03:25 (six months ago) link

that rhythm section on at the golden circle is so great, one of best jazz trios ever imo.

calzino, Sunday, 8 March 2020 11:17 (six months ago) link

cosign

mark s, Sunday, 8 March 2020 11:23 (six months ago) link

i agree w/mself of 19 years ago lol

mark s, Sunday, 8 March 2020 11:24 (six months ago) link

'free jazz' is actually one of my favorites too tbh

Bstep, Sunday, 8 March 2020 11:44 (six months ago) link

I recently came across 'Opening the Caravan of Dreams', a 1985 live album from Prime Time that I don't see much talk about. Really, really funky and cool. Almost no-wavey in parts. Fans of 'Dancing in Your Head' would dig, I reckon.

cooldix, Monday, 9 March 2020 08:47 (six months ago) link

like a jerk, I never saw him play…but one time I spotted him getting off the A or E at the West 4th st station…he was carrying a pearl paint bag… absolutely no one around the station had any notion, so I greeted him, shook his band and made small talk for a bit… he was lovely and completely OK with talking to some stranger…

veronica moser, Monday, 9 March 2020 14:48 (six months ago) link

I’ve been after a copy of that one for a while. I have an mp3 rip, definitely a cool one. Memory days it’s in the vein of ‘Of Human Feelings’

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 9 March 2020 14:49 (six months ago) link

Prime Time finally started to click for me in the last year or two. Listening to Body Meta now, though Of Human Feelings is my favorite.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 9 March 2020 14:55 (six months ago) link

a thing i liked abt prime time is that whenever you bought a physical copy of the village voice from the mid-80s thru the 90s bern nix always had an ad in the classifieds offering guitar lessons

mark s, Monday, 9 March 2020 14:58 (six months ago) link

that’s delightful.

Of Human Feelings ranks among my top Ornette LPs.

justice 4 CCR (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 9 March 2020 15:32 (six months ago) link

my favourite Prime Time is probably Opening the Caravan of Dreams

frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Monday, 9 March 2020 17:05 (six months ago) link

saw ornette with group from the 'sound grammar' album when they headlined newport in 2004, it started raining and everyone left except the real headz lol

Bstep, Monday, 9 March 2020 18:56 (six months ago) link

six months pass...

i watched "ornette: made in america" the other night and i loved it, particularly the musical performances with ornette/prime time playing with orchestras. so i'm listening to "skies of america" and it's great but doesn't have any of ornette's band on it. i'm wondering if there are any albums or live recordings that are closer to the performances in the movie with orchestral parts and the full-band jazz parts

na (NA), Friday, 11 September 2020 14:54 (one week ago) link

Check out Chappaqua Suite, which has the Ornette/David Izenzon/Charles Moffett trio, plus Pharoah Sanders, plus strings. It's pretty wild.

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 11 September 2020 15:59 (one week ago) link

“town hall 1962” also has the moffett / izenzon trio playing with a string quartet, it’s cool

budo jeru, Friday, 11 September 2020 16:26 (one week ago) link

the part in made in america that had a string quartet with denardo coleman on drums playing inside a buckminster fuller geodesic dome was fantastic

na (NA), Friday, 11 September 2020 16:35 (one week ago) link

how could I have not known about this

https://valghent.com/emmanuel-ghent-ornette-coleman-man-on-the-moon/

thanks as per usual to hrvatski

Milton Parker, Friday, 11 September 2020 22:20 (one week ago) link

& still haven't seen Made In America; but there's a complete 1987 live version with symphony + band including Dernardo. seems to artifically mix back and forth between symphony and band but in an interesting / compositional way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Garvv6PPsaY

Milton Parker, Friday, 11 September 2020 22:29 (one week ago) link

it's on the criterion channel and might be worth signing up for the free trial at least to watch

na (NA), Friday, 11 September 2020 23:37 (one week ago) link


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