should i give the grateful dead a chance?

The music drugs wants to be free, maaaaannnnn...

Like I said, it's more a romantic notion than anything else. Few bands are in it to *lose* money. The Dead if anything deserve credit for calling it what it is.

Fine, just don't call them hyprocrites b/c you had some vague sense that, as hippies or whatever, they *were* in it lose money.

Well, I think at one point they kind of were! Until maybe they realized how much they were losing. (Embezzled by one of their dads?)

The conclusion of that Altamont book I read was that the debacle kind of ended whatever the Dead (and Stones) were, or at least what they wanted to be. But I'm not familiar enough with the Dead to know if they were changed by the events.

i think they were in it to have a good time. no 'rock star' seemed nearly as chill as jerry (which i think is the core of their aspirational fan appeal). dude died at 53 a martyr to hippie hedonism

i mean if we want to talk about the corporatization of the dead yeah that was '75 when all of their dreams crashed and burned due to a number of factors, including yeah embezzlement, that wasn't altamont and for god's sake isn't there another thread or two where we can argue about how capitalism is the root of all evil?

The embezzlement was 1970. Hart's dad disappeared with their money three months after Altamont, fwiw.

I think it's awesome that the Dead has built a thriving merch empire to support their fans' thirst for high-quality recordings of live shows, merch, etc. (even though I rarely engage with any of that personally). I wish every band/artist that I'm into (and, heck, even many I'm not) could be successful on their own terms. I recently signed up to send a few bucks a month to my favorite guitar dude on Patreon, to get behind his future recording & merch efforts... that's what I do as a fan, don't we all? -- support artists we love and hope they can find financial stability or even "success" via what they produce & do.

i think it's awesome the only other american band who has as many great album-closing jams as the dead ("casey jones", "blues for allah", "the weather report suite", "truckin'", "terrapin station", "cosmic charlie") is REM

xpost I think Pearl Jam doing that was super-cool, too. I remember all those shelves of live CDs at Tower Records and thinking, man, I wish every band did this. It's more or less free money for them, and an awesome thing for fans.

Re: Altamont, the whole reason Altamont happened at all was because the Stones were getting shit for high ticket prices on their US tour, and the only reason they were touring America at all was reportedly to refill their empty coffers; the reason the event was moved to Altamont at the last minute was because Jagger wanted to keep a bigger percentage of the film profits, iirc. A lot of folks of course write about Altamont as the fabled Death of the '60s (with actual death the turning point), but it was also when a lot of idealism evaporated in the face of practical money matters and/or greed.

my favorite guitar dude on Patreon

lol this was Hagerty wasn't it

lol I was going to randomly guess James Blackshaw!

kinda weird for capitalist figureheads to hold out so long sampling-wise ("unbroken chain")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoXFmo50YBI

xxp Yep! #HexHead #(WhatMan)WhoAreYou

apologies for “but have you heard” but I’m wondering if any non-fans would like “the wheel” by jerry garcia band?

https://youtu.be/rYGatU18PMQ

Er, it's pleasant. I'd rather listen to Michael Nesmith though.

The conclusion of that Altamont book I read was that the debacle kind of ended whatever the Dead (and Stones) were, or at least what they wanted to be. But I'm not familiar enough with the Dead to know if they were changed by the events.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 February 2020 18:04 (one hour ago) link

One of my favorite moments from Gimme Shelter is when someone tells Jerry about the fracas between the Hell's Angels and Jefferson Airplane where Marty Balin gets brained and Jerry's response is a stoned "Bummer", so out of character with the rest of the reactions.

Then they fly off in a helicopter, right?

Then they fly off in a helicopter, right?

― Ticket Tout (morrisp)

they learned that trick from stockhausen

Four helicopters, iirc. That's also when the Grateful Dead invented "Apocalypse Now."

I liked the Amazon doc a lot but I thought Jerry came off terribly in it

everyone has their off days. weir is the zappa of the dead

I liked the Amazon doc a lot but I thought Jerry came off terribly in it

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, February 21, 2020 12:51 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

he seemed like a total prick

not remotely a chill guy either

the chills are the dead of new zealand

The Dead C are the Dead of NZ.

huh i dunno if "jerry was a prick" was my takeaway from the doc. though i've read several dead bios so maybe some of the later years stuff wasn't as surprising to me. as far as rock stars go, maybe not such a bad dude.

a broken angel sings from a guitar. in the end there's just a song

Even as a Dead fan I can agree they seem like one of the least desirable bands to actually hang out with.

all of the SF 60s psych bands seem like horrible ppl tbh. Even Fogerty and Sly seemed like, um, difficult people to say the least.

i think LSD can breed megalomania and solipsism as opposed to a sense of being 'all one' with the universe or whatever

Plus Garcia was a junkie for years.

yeah addiction can turn even a basically ethical person into a terrible terrible prick

I'm just going to lol a little bit at all the insightful observations of how terrible the Dead were as people in this thread while the same people have a chuckle on the Bobby Gillespie thread about him wearing literal Nazi symbols. NB I like the Dead and Primal Scream (actually similar groups/fanbases in some ways).

one of the perks of being an American is not giving a shit about Primal Scream

PBKR is referring to me. Never seen our wee Boaby sporting a death’s head before and i am disappointed. Love Primal Scream but have never particularly considered Boaby as a person I would like to hang out with.

Also i am an American and a Jew, not particularly convinced Boaby is a Nazi as much as a young idiot.

Sorry to call you out Shakes, just being a little playful. Mostly just amused how we all have our own predispositions so that we will cut people we like a LOT of slack while those we have hangups about we hold their feet to the fire. I’m as guilty as anyone.

one of the perks of being an American is not giving a shit about Primal Scream

Heh, that's funny, because I had just watched that "Songs from the Big Chair" Classic Albums doc, and after looking to see which ones I hadn't seen yet, started "Screamadelica." But about 20 minutes in I turned it off because I didn't give a shit.

Was going to say it's also funny that one of the perks of not being an American is not giving a shit about the Grateful Dead but what's funnier is the assumption that non-Americans give a shit about Primal Scream.

wait boaby is a YOUNG idiot, in that case so am i, finally this thread delivers

primal scream: bad live, suck unless heavily remixes
grateful dead: neither of those things

lmao at the idea that americans especially care about primal scream. no they don’t

remixed*

lmao at the idea that americans especially care about primal scream. no they don’t

No-one said they did?

Also i am an American and a Jew, not particularly convinced Boaby is a Nazi as much as a young idiot.

The interview is from around the time of "Loaded", so he'd be 27 going on 28.

... admittedly that is 14 in Boaby years.

No-one said they did?

― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Saturday, February 22, 2020 6:09 AM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh lol i'm very sleepy, i didn't realize your implication was that no one cares about primal scream

Hugely enjoying all the recent testimonials here, different visions, POVs, incl. of those who enjoy other peoples' perspectives, but can't bear the actual soundz of inspiration. Leave us not forget Jerry in other contexts---not nec. bluegrass or set-down folkie sets, but also the soulful grooves:
I like Keith and Donna in several of those live Jerry Garcia Band sets, long rippling versions of "Don't Let Go" and so on; JGB and Legion of Mary shows can be pretty refreshing.

― dow, Friday, April 15, 2016 2:50 PM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah been digging into some 76-78 JGB stuff and Garcia definitely sounds inspired/engaged/lively compared to some of the Dead stuff from that era. and donna and keith actually contribute in a good way!

― tylerw, Friday, April 15, 2016 3:16 PM (three years ago)
Much more of that here:
Grateful Dead live, Dick's Picks etc - S&D
and here:
Jerry Garcia Solo/JGB/Grisman/etc. - S/D

For anyone on the bus or Dead-curious: this The Other One is superb, and the ending-> is something else. March 20 1977

https://archive.org/details/gd1977-03-20.145511.mtx.motb0226.flac16/gd1977-03-20.mtx.motb.0226.d2t05.flac