should i give the grateful dead a chance?

Do not give the Grateful Dead a chance. I have given the Grateful Dead several chances, and they continue to bore me solid. Friends say "Oh, you're into 60s garage, listen to their first album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jams. Friends say "Oh, you like spacerock, listen to this or that experimental jam album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jam drivel. Friends say "Oh, you have to listen to it on acid to get it." I listened to it on acid. It only stretched the INTERMINABLE boredom to the breaking point where it was a relief to sit and listen to radio static afterwards.

I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out-take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.

I know that calling a band "boring" is verboten on this forum. The Dead are not just boring, they are interminable, self indulgent, they noodle, they wibble, they do not drone in a transcendant manner, no they ANNIHILATE any sense of enjoyment of music to the point where I would rather listen to elevator music rather than the Dead. In fact, that is what they are. They are the elevator music of hippie stoner jam psychedelia.

Do not waste your time. Sing along with the hoover instead.

A: God this band are shit.

(Keith Richards tells that gag - which is a bit rich considering that 'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...)

I think they're worth checking out rather than applying some knee jerk reaction. But obviously lots of people don't agree.

Did you even read my fucking post? This is not some knee jerk reaction. This is a carefully thought out aesthetic decision that I have reached after repeated exposure and more consideration that I would give to most bands who repeatedly bombarded me with shit.

Everything about the Grateful Dead is repulsive - the music (yes I *can* judge them on a minute or so), the fans, the mythology.... They're a crystallisation of everything I dislike in music.

The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.

But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.

Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

looool

is that pejorative?

I didn't get that sense, no

that 2/14/70 DS is fantastic, the other one on that dicks picks also rips if you skip the 9 minute drum into

i'm actually listening to Dick's Picks Vol 4 right now, this might be the best Dead I've heard

I was listening to the Portland Memorial 5/19/74 started great but they butchered the fuck out of Box of Rain to such a degree I quit, so weird how they killed China Cat and Rider then sounded like a substandard bar band that half learned their own song

Phil's live vocals are always horrendous

their inability to play "box of rain" well in a live setting is pretty baffling — probably Lesh's fault.
lol xp

so weird how they killed {x song] then sounded like a substandard bar band that half learned their own song

"in every Grateful Dead show ever"

I recently learned that dudes who dig the new Dead & Co thing are referred to as "CoBros"

I'll be going to my fourth and fifth Dead & Co. shows this weekend and I have never heard this before. If it's a thing, I'm guessing it was coined by the Dead & Co. deniers.

While they are definitely no Dead and the slow tempos absolutely kill me sometimes, the vibe of the shows are incredibly fun. Oteil and Jeff are the (not so) secret MVPs of this configuration and Josh fits in way better than I could have ever imagined. I don't ever spend time listening to Dead & Co. shows at home, but I've had a lot of fun each time I've seen them.

I saw it in a slang-drenched wook meme that I can't bring myself to post but you should see it if you GIS for "primally puddled"

Ha, I don't spend a lot of time in wook meme world, so that may explain it. I wouldn't doubt it's a thing in some circles though.

I've been really high on Morning Dew from Europe 72 lately. I just went and listened to the Cornell 77 version and it's amazing how much less magical it sounds, almost like a cover band playing the same song.

Yeah, "Morning Dew" is one of the few songs that I don't think translated very well to their '77 style.

studio box of rain is a gorgeous, wistful meditation on life and loss that sounds like the universe itself telling you everything will be ok. live box of rain is an out of tune trainwreck w/ grandpa simpson on vocals.

ha that is a great description but not ALWAYS true! they tightened Box of Rain up considerably in 89/90 I think

this is some excellent dead conversation btw, keep it coming

agreed!

I've been mostly spending time in 1970, thanks to Dave's Picks 30 (1/2/70 & 1/3/70). The Live/Dead suite ("Dark Star > St. Stephen > Eleven") is great, but I'm surprised by how much I keep going back to the Pig tunes on this one.

mentioned above, but the save your face blog is an excellent resource for various weird corners of Dead sounds ... http://saveyourface.posthaven.com/
was just listening to a 1983 rehearsal that (no joke) was a dead ringer for Arthur Russell.

Save Your Face is a must read.

Assuming everyone is up on Thoughts on the Dead, love someone that clearly loves the band but is unafraid to puncture the mythology.

so weird how they killed China Cat and Rider then sounded like a substandard bar band that half learned their own song

yes, and they're up against one of their best studio moments ever & one of their finest songs -- Box of Rain is an outlier I think, doesn't really fit it with their live look at all. It is disappointing that they never, to the best of my knowledge, figure out a way to make it work live, it's so good, despite trying over 100 times.

save your face blog rules even though it hasn't quite converted me to 94 just yet. deadessays blogspot is also fun to read through if you want to get deep, deep into the weeds, i discovered the 6/24/70 aud from there, now one of my all time faves.

Though defunct, http://www.deadlistening.com/ led me to some great shows, but it may exceed one's tolerance for the type of comments mentioned a few posts up:

Here the audience tape provides a glimpse into the sonic tidal wave of the Grateful Dead in a fashion not readily available in any other tape this reviewer can bring to memory. After the “lady finger” section of the song proves to be intensely personal - it is so within the head that the head expands to fill all space - the flash pot/gunshot that follows becomes an endgame for the senses. The music becomes enormous, even cataclysmic, as if towering forces are locked in battle. Galaxies collide, exploding in endless eruptions. Above it all, a cymbal swell begins to take form, certainly a mainstay portion of this tune. But this tape brings it into bone bleaching focus. The swell begins to level everything in its path, yet the music muscles its way even higher. Nothing is left of personal space. There is no room left. Here, we are lost to the music. We are gone. And the sound wall continues to roar. This one passage delivers the goods so completely, it starts to make sense why people would religiously follow the band from show to show for decades. You come out on the other side wondering, what just happened? Sensational.

that's almost poll-worthy

lol it's hard to remember sometimes that those cosmic pronouncements are about the same band that could also produce this (on the same site!)

Mind you, I am walking you into Bob’s “learn slide guitar on the job” phase, and I apologize in advance for this. Haven’t heard about how bad Bob was on slide? Well, my friends… there is little to say, and painfully plenty to hear.

Sometimes I just wonder if deadheads have ever heard any other bands before.

It makes for ideal pastures as far as I’m concerned. And in listening to the more exploratory expanses of this fine show I am continually brought to the state of mind where my eyes can no longer perceive the physical space around me. The vivid imagery which floods my vision while my eyes are closed tight suffuses everything continually. And in that vision where light burns around shadows and perspective swims in a sea of joy, I am repeatedly exposed to a musical journey which seems to travel through a landscape constructed of a Mandelbrot set fractal.

I kid, rather than mock — I wish something would move me as much as any given Dead show moves this blogger!

Sometimes I just wonder if deadheads have ever heard any other bands before.

In my experience, most Deadheads I've met fall into one of two camps - all Dead/Garcia all the time, or voracious listeners with surprisingly varied tastes.

i respect the Dead for a few reasons:
- the loyalty they inspire
- the band and its followers' role in tape and bootleg culture
- a few decent studio cuts

otherwise, i'm totally lost as to what the fuck is the big deal. most of it is unlistenable garbage even if one is high as giraffe balls.

(and like posters at the beginning of the thread, i've tried plenty of times, i sold drugs when i was an Oberlin student)

xp yeah obviously the second kind exist in good numbers, but it's the first kind that's sort of dumbfounding sometimes. They talk like Jerry invented improvising, like no other band has ever gone "outside," like john coltrane hadn't already made his most experimental albums and died by the time the first grateful dead record came out (roughly), like there wasn't also stuff like electric Miles and Mahavishnu orchestra by the time Europe 72 came out, etc.

I had a friend who for a long time listened almost exclusively to classical music with the Dead as his one concession to popular music.

xp yeah obviously the second kind exist in good numbers, but it's the first kind that's sort of dumbfounding sometimes. They talk like Jerry invented improvising, like no other band has ever gone "outside," like john coltrane hadn't already made his most experimental albums and died by the time the first grateful dead record came out (roughly), like there wasn't also stuff like electric Miles and Mahavishnu orchestra by the time Europe 72 came out, etc.

Oh yeah, getting stuck in a convo with one of those heads that can't (or won't) acknowledge improvisation in any other context are maddening. You try to mention Coltrane or any sort of contemporary improv scene and they just stare blankly before swinging back to a "but Jerry".

what i find interesting about these sorts of conversations is that it makes me wonder what value i find in bands like...well, let's say NNCK, or why i sometimes listen to old WWVV live sets on a loop all day. maybe it's the influence of jazz, noise, and electronics? this is the most palpable reason i've ever settled on, because part of why i can't stand the Dead is that their sound has always struck me as incredibly "thin," and i think part of that is simply instrumentation.

I had a friend who for a long time listened almost exclusively to classical music with the Dead as his one concession to popular music.

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, June 10, 2019 4:32 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That basically describes Keith Godchaux IIRC

ya i dunno i think this sounds pretty good. some of these videos i've seen have verged on embarassing but they sound nice!

https://www.facebook.com/BobbyWeir/videos/464980101037007/?__xts__[0]=68.ARB60fBGKZ6W1CaXJpOKOp2vKqIXxhyRaClS9bgIwz4z0_41pFWJOqUy5emaQzGccTo8FHLYHKzQPpwJdR-rUNIltMiZ6aFujZ_KZhxkf_VoyRjwJmUCw-p0VHNCjs4S_IOvz8ClVqtY8TVjwWIQ8Z1S83iU627ES7XucaXT3CZe4uYONo4j2HwPzuh9-mxHyTw87IXZO6DFqrh1VX_-siLVwgvwcAOE9tEZG8sjdWUGuDShlajO_yMFuIjqXvQloNnyIGZ_7NXcJyBpLGkYv7lwGen0Sj1u4RjzbkAvSXujs8CyA-LbHswYL3inWTIFNlGO5UKPqSolUwUx-VWkNHg5Tw6DjsF-ELE&__tn__=-R

still not convinced they mic mickey until drums/space tho

doing my daily ritual of listening to This Day in History and wondering if anyone of Throbbing Gristle were into the Dead? I'm actually listening to Seastones for a change and it sounds very 'Industrial'. Whole show is killer, Wall of Sound AUD. Providence 6-26-74

https://archive.org/details/gd74-06-26.moore.weiner.gdADT17.16037.sbeok.shnf/gd74-06-26d3t01.shn

def a possibility:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/fd/94/41fd9471bbfacb0ee74e56f98f3968a4.jpg

ha! God(dess) Bless E

Switched to the Matrix and Bill now has 8 arms.

I always thought Seastones was more filler entr'acte new age electronics, not grotty bass feedback and ring oscillation through 1000 speakers.

seastones is something that should be entirely my scene in theory but is just so tedious in practice

only lagin/dead i dig is the SNACK benefit, now there is the wanky prog jams i always wanted from the dead

This is a pretty good writeup of a recent Dead & Co. show. Normally I hate this kind of "young person parachutes into cultural phenomenon, comes away unimpressed" story, but this one is well written.

I felt a pang of regret at not going to the Citi show -- he played WOLF maaaaaan! I feel like it would have been fun in a certain way just to experience even an echo of the atmosphere of Dead shows since I never got to attend one. Then I was reminded that even in the $150 seat I almost bought off a friend I'd basically be watching them on a giant television, and then I watched a couple of videos of some pretty weak and sloppy drumming behind John Mayer's highly skilled but somehow unspirited soloing ("too perfect" in the same sense that Miles found George Coleman's solos to be, no risk taking, no mistakes) and a very unpleasantly noodly piano. I still have mixed feelings about not having gone just bc it could be "the last chance." I'm very torn between "the whole thing is a boomer con" and "experience something larger than yourself" in my views on it.

The Morning Dew sounded pretty good. Maybe I should just try to go see the current Bob Weir thing sometime -- he's fun.

he's "doing it for the kids," or the kids' money... if the kids were a bunch of boomers who never stopped smoking pot and thought of themselves as "cool parents"

sorry, i'm being a bitch, i just hate the Dead

i skipped this year but i went to citi night 2 in 2018 and i'd say there was a bunch of stuff that was pleasant but kinda plodding and a genuinely great 20 minutes of communal joy during st stephen -> the eleven. experiencing that moment in a stadium was pretty powerful. i don't dare to listen back though.

the best piece of dead journalism ever imo is jeff weiss's magnum opus on fare thee well : https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/6wqgz4/the-grateful-dead-chicago-fare-thee-well-2015

sorry, i'm being a bitch, i just hate the Dead

― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Thursday, June 27, 2019 5:22 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don't flatter yourself that we care either way

I still have mixed feelings about not having gone just bc it could be "the last chance."

i love the dead but let's be real "the last chance" was a few decades ago and yes this is a boomer con. you are not missing much. i went last summer and had fun laying on a blanket on the grass getting high w/ friends but it was too expensive just for that, it's really just another outdoor concert, and the music was more or less equivalent to a dead cover band. "something larger than yourself" at a dead & co show in 2019 is mostly the screen that you are watching them on and the sea of drunk fans who are mostly in pretty rough shape.

thx, ur a good dude for putting my regrets to rest

I used to think all live Grateful Dead was all just a single, interminable song. Now that's exactly what I love about it.