should i give the grateful dead a chance?

Do not give the Grateful Dead a chance. I have given the Grateful Dead several chances, and they continue to bore me solid. Friends say "Oh, you're into 60s garage, listen to their first album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jams. Friends say "Oh, you like spacerock, listen to this or that experimental jam album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jam drivel. Friends say "Oh, you have to listen to it on acid to get it." I listened to it on acid. It only stretched the INTERMINABLE boredom to the breaking point where it was a relief to sit and listen to radio static afterwards.

I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out-take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.

I know that calling a band "boring" is verboten on this forum. The Dead are not just boring, they are interminable, self indulgent, they noodle, they wibble, they do not drone in a transcendant manner, no they ANNIHILATE any sense of enjoyment of music to the point where I would rather listen to elevator music rather than the Dead. In fact, that is what they are. They are the elevator music of hippie stoner jam psychedelia.

Do not waste your time. Sing along with the hoover instead.

A: God this band are shit.

(Keith Richards tells that gag - which is a bit rich considering that 'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...)

I think they're worth checking out rather than applying some knee jerk reaction. But obviously lots of people don't agree.

Did you even read my fucking post? This is not some knee jerk reaction. This is a carefully thought out aesthetic decision that I have reached after repeated exposure and more consideration that I would give to most bands who repeatedly bombarded me with shit.

Everything about the Grateful Dead is repulsive - the music (yes I *can* judge them on a minute or so), the fans, the mythology.... They're a crystallisation of everything I dislike in music.

The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.

But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.

Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

i think they were in it to have a good time. no 'rock star' seemed nearly as chill as jerry (which i think is the core of their aspirational fan appeal). dude died at 53 a martyr to hippie hedonism

i mean if we want to talk about the corporatization of the dead yeah that was '75 when all of their dreams crashed and burned due to a number of factors, including yeah embezzlement, that wasn't altamont and for god's sake isn't there another thread or two where we can argue about how capitalism is the root of all evil?

The embezzlement was 1970. Hart's dad disappeared with their money three months after Altamont, fwiw.

I think it's awesome that the Dead has built a thriving merch empire to support their fans' thirst for high-quality recordings of live shows, merch, etc. (even though I rarely engage with any of that personally). I wish every band/artist that I'm into (and, heck, even many I'm not) could be successful on their own terms. I recently signed up to send a few bucks a month to my favorite guitar dude on Patreon, to get behind his future recording & merch efforts... that's what I do as a fan, don't we all? -- support artists we love and hope they can find financial stability or even "success" via what they produce & do.

i think it's awesome the only other american band who has as many great album-closing jams as the dead ("casey jones", "blues for allah", "the weather report suite", "truckin'", "terrapin station", "cosmic charlie") is REM

xpost I think Pearl Jam doing that was super-cool, too. I remember all those shelves of live CDs at Tower Records and thinking, man, I wish every band did this. It's more or less free money for them, and an awesome thing for fans.

Re: Altamont, the whole reason Altamont happened at all was because the Stones were getting shit for high ticket prices on their US tour, and the only reason they were touring America at all was reportedly to refill their empty coffers; the reason the event was moved to Altamont at the last minute was because Jagger wanted to keep a bigger percentage of the film profits, iirc. A lot of folks of course write about Altamont as the fabled Death of the '60s (with actual death the turning point), but it was also when a lot of idealism evaporated in the face of practical money matters and/or greed.

my favorite guitar dude on Patreon

lol this was Hagerty wasn't it

lol I was going to randomly guess James Blackshaw!

kinda weird for capitalist figureheads to hold out so long sampling-wise ("unbroken chain")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoXFmo50YBI

xxp Yep! #HexHead #(WhatMan)WhoAreYou

apologies for “but have you heard” but I’m wondering if any non-fans would like “the wheel” by jerry garcia band?

https://youtu.be/rYGatU18PMQ

Er, it's pleasant. I'd rather listen to Michael Nesmith though.

The conclusion of that Altamont book I read was that the debacle kind of ended whatever the Dead (and Stones) were, or at least what they wanted to be. But I'm not familiar enough with the Dead to know if they were changed by the events.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 February 2020 18:04 (one hour ago) link

One of my favorite moments from Gimme Shelter is when someone tells Jerry about the fracas between the Hell's Angels and Jefferson Airplane where Marty Balin gets brained and Jerry's response is a stoned "Bummer", so out of character with the rest of the reactions.

Then they fly off in a helicopter, right?

Then they fly off in a helicopter, right?

― Ticket Tout (morrisp)

they learned that trick from stockhausen

Four helicopters, iirc. That's also when the Grateful Dead invented "Apocalypse Now."

I liked the Amazon doc a lot but I thought Jerry came off terribly in it

everyone has their off days. weir is the zappa of the dead

I liked the Amazon doc a lot but I thought Jerry came off terribly in it

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, February 21, 2020 12:51 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

he seemed like a total prick

not remotely a chill guy either

the chills are the dead of new zealand

The Dead C are the Dead of NZ.

huh i dunno if "jerry was a prick" was my takeaway from the doc. though i've read several dead bios so maybe some of the later years stuff wasn't as surprising to me. as far as rock stars go, maybe not such a bad dude.

a broken angel sings from a guitar. in the end there's just a song

Even as a Dead fan I can agree they seem like one of the least desirable bands to actually hang out with.

all of the SF 60s psych bands seem like horrible ppl tbh. Even Fogerty and Sly seemed like, um, difficult people to say the least.

i think LSD can breed megalomania and solipsism as opposed to a sense of being 'all one' with the universe or whatever

Plus Garcia was a junkie for years.

yeah addiction can turn even a basically ethical person into a terrible terrible prick

I'm just going to lol a little bit at all the insightful observations of how terrible the Dead were as people in this thread while the same people have a chuckle on the Bobby Gillespie thread about him wearing literal Nazi symbols. NB I like the Dead and Primal Scream (actually similar groups/fanbases in some ways).

one of the perks of being an American is not giving a shit about Primal Scream

PBKR is referring to me. Never seen our wee Boaby sporting a death’s head before and i am disappointed. Love Primal Scream but have never particularly considered Boaby as a person I would like to hang out with.

Also i am an American and a Jew, not particularly convinced Boaby is a Nazi as much as a young idiot.

Sorry to call you out Shakes, just being a little playful. Mostly just amused how we all have our own predispositions so that we will cut people we like a LOT of slack while those we have hangups about we hold their feet to the fire. I’m as guilty as anyone.

one of the perks of being an American is not giving a shit about Primal Scream

Heh, that's funny, because I had just watched that "Songs from the Big Chair" Classic Albums doc, and after looking to see which ones I hadn't seen yet, started "Screamadelica." But about 20 minutes in I turned it off because I didn't give a shit.

Was going to say it's also funny that one of the perks of not being an American is not giving a shit about the Grateful Dead but what's funnier is the assumption that non-Americans give a shit about Primal Scream.

wait boaby is a YOUNG idiot, in that case so am i, finally this thread delivers

primal scream: bad live, suck unless heavily remixes
grateful dead: neither of those things

lmao at the idea that americans especially care about primal scream. no they don’t

remixed*

lmao at the idea that americans especially care about primal scream. no they don’t

No-one said they did?

Also i am an American and a Jew, not particularly convinced Boaby is a Nazi as much as a young idiot.

The interview is from around the time of "Loaded", so he'd be 27 going on 28.

... admittedly that is 14 in Boaby years.

No-one said they did?

― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Saturday, February 22, 2020 6:09 AM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

oh lol i'm very sleepy, i didn't realize your implication was that no one cares about primal scream

Hugely enjoying all the recent testimonials here, different visions, POVs, incl. of those who enjoy other peoples' perspectives, but can't bear the actual soundz of inspiration. Leave us not forget Jerry in other contexts---not nec. bluegrass or set-down folkie sets, but also the soulful grooves:
I like Keith and Donna in several of those live Jerry Garcia Band sets, long rippling versions of "Don't Let Go" and so on; JGB and Legion of Mary shows can be pretty refreshing.

― dow, Friday, April 15, 2016 2:50 PM (three years ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah been digging into some 76-78 JGB stuff and Garcia definitely sounds inspired/engaged/lively compared to some of the Dead stuff from that era. and donna and keith actually contribute in a good way!

― tylerw, Friday, April 15, 2016 3:16 PM (three years ago)
Much more of that here:
Grateful Dead live, Dick's Picks etc - S&D
and here:
Jerry Garcia Solo/JGB/Grisman/etc. - S/D

For anyone on the bus or Dead-curious: this The Other One is superb, and the ending-> is something else. March 20 1977

https://archive.org/details/gd1977-03-20.145511.mtx.motb0226.flac16/gd1977-03-20.mtx.motb.0226.d2t05.flac

Thrilled to announce that I’ll be performing the National Anthem for Sunday’s FOX @NASCAR iRACING race on @FOXTV, @FS1 and the FOX Sports App at 1:00 PM ET from the comforts of home. Tune in! pic.twitter.com/p3986M4YhY

— Bob Weir (@BobWeir) March 27, 2020

the row jimmy from this show is probably my favorite xp

Heres Bob Weir singin the national anthem for the Esports nascar race lmao pic.twitter.com/ndYnBzO26y

— Kent (Bene Gesserit) (@kentdunne) March 29, 2020

not as bad as i would have thought but the digital element is extremely bizarre. didn't know they were literally airing a simulation lmao

do we have Rolling Most 2020 Video thread