should i give the grateful dead a chance?

Do not give the Grateful Dead a chance. I have given the Grateful Dead several chances, and they continue to bore me solid. Friends say "Oh, you're into 60s garage, listen to their first album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jams. Friends say "Oh, you like spacerock, listen to this or that experimental jam album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jam drivel. Friends say "Oh, you have to listen to it on acid to get it." I listened to it on acid. It only stretched the INTERMINABLE boredom to the breaking point where it was a relief to sit and listen to radio static afterwards.

I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out-take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.

I know that calling a band "boring" is verboten on this forum. The Dead are not just boring, they are interminable, self indulgent, they noodle, they wibble, they do not drone in a transcendant manner, no they ANNIHILATE any sense of enjoyment of music to the point where I would rather listen to elevator music rather than the Dead. In fact, that is what they are. They are the elevator music of hippie stoner jam psychedelia.

Do not waste your time. Sing along with the hoover instead.

A: God this band are shit.

(Keith Richards tells that gag - which is a bit rich considering that 'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...)

I think they're worth checking out rather than applying some knee jerk reaction. But obviously lots of people don't agree.

Did you even read my fucking post? This is not some knee jerk reaction. This is a carefully thought out aesthetic decision that I have reached after repeated exposure and more consideration that I would give to most bands who repeatedly bombarded me with shit.

Everything about the Grateful Dead is repulsive - the music (yes I *can* judge them on a minute or so), the fans, the mythology.... They're a crystallisation of everything I dislike in music.

The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.

But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.

Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

hard to follow, esp, when shifting gears into more varied excursions) And this was already happening while he was in the Dead, which was a reason for wanting him excised, again according to the 'gau.

The Pigpen Review! I think a "review" was pretty full-sized presentation.
Musically, this made sense, but because the Dead was also a spiritual unit, it was distressing. Then it was revealed that this was a breakup with a difference: two groups would result but the new one, to be called the Pigpen Revue, would tour with the Dead.
It never did happen, partly because the group, which is always in debt no matter how much money it earns, couldn't handle the finances. When the Dead appeared here last February, Tom Constanten was on organ. But Pigpen was on-stage too, banging inaudibly on a set of bongos and singing or blowing mouth-harp sometimes. The Dead wouldn't have been right without Pigpen to root them to the ground,and they knew it. Not only was their music better than ever, so was their gestalt. On their recent Aoxomoxoa (Warner Brothers WS 1790), the last three credits read: "Bill Krutzmann/Percussion; Tom Constanten/Keyboards; Rod McKernan/Pig Pen." He is his own instrument.
From https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/news/grateful-69.php

The part about him being the favorite of segment is in another newspaper story somewhere on there, I think; anyway,I've certainly heard it from heads.

Re: Weir. Him singing El Paso Is some underachieving shit i cringe everytime i see it on youtube. The look in his eyes says get me out of here i dont know why he doesnt belt it out more confidently. Such things fascinate me

Never understand all the shit Bob Weir gets. Rhythm guitar > lead guitar.

Yeah, he doesn't have the charisma of Garcia, but can be very effective performer---rizzx, hope you've got Weir's Ace on your list.

I should prob have said he doesn't have the talent and skill of Garcia, but more of an everyman figure, and certainly the journeyman, never slick enough to be the hack, but learning on the job (starting as Garcia's student at the guitar store),

The look in his eyes says get me out of here i dont know why he doesnt belt it out more confidently.

Based on '80s and '90s performances of "Estimated Prophet," asking Weir to belt it out is an extremely bad idea.

LOL yeah I once heard Weir's 'belting voice' accurately described as an unattractive foghorn bellow - and he's still a better singer than Phil Lesh!

Phil can be an interesting player in the group unit but some of his bass solos are horrendous.

phil is this fascinating mix of innovative player and obnoxious noise-maker. when he goes into something like the "philo stomp", i'm _extremely_ impressed, but as much as i love avant-garde music, "seastones" is just a load of crap.

there’s this dead show from the early 90s I watched awhile back that was equal parts awesome and hilarious... I don’t know if bob was on something that night but he was doing weird stuff with his vocals. Like he sang the verse of “estimated prophet” as a series of descending semitones so it sounded like all haunted and fucked. and he wouldnt sing the proper chorus of “one more Saturday night” he would just sing “..... yah Saturday night!!”

284 bootlegs of which a good 80% plus are marked as "REALLY GOOD", this is why people don't get into dead boots :)

lollll

which people?

@dow - read good things about Ace, so def. on the list. Have listened to Weir's recent-ish albums like Kingfish and Blue Mountain quite a bit and liked most of it.

Haven't heard those, but think Ace is still gen. considered his best.
xpost The only person I've ever actually met who didn't get into Dead boots etc. was this guy who used to shop a turn-of-the-century store where I worked; Dead product pretty much kept the lights on. One day I was describing how I finally got into the Dead, and he said, "Yeah---that's great, if you want to hear 500 performances of the same 18 songs," this mummified hippie with his kindly gap-toothed smile---and the scales fell from my eyes! For a second.

hi all, i've been doing the Year of The Dead for awhile now and today's show from the Fillmore West 1968 is something else. the first show after Anthem was released, 21 min. Alligator! peace

https://archive.org/details/gd1968-08-21.139746.sbd.MasterReel.Gastwirt.Miller.Noel.pcfix.t-flac1644

listening to a lot of the dead lately, really into them. lots of random dick's picks listens on Spotify etc. have been taking a lot of hallucinogens also, turning into a boomer hippy at 36.

started off p much mortified every time bobby was getting into it but grown strongly fond of him.

Lol, jim, I wouldn't have thought. That was about the age I got into them seriously.

@llurk what is that Year of The Dead thing you mention? Listening to a show from the same date a whole year long? And how do you decide from which year you pick the date?

Enjoying 1975 at the moment, One From the Vault is a true gem I keep going back to

I've been listening This Day in Dead History on archive.org every day for months now, prep course for Advanced Head Studies. The calling comes as an unexpectedly exceptional version of Looks Like Rain.

I started by focusing on the years that I knew were choice - 73/74, 77, 68 - but then branched out into all eras. There's good stuff all over, the August 1982 Midwest tour and current 1972 run to Veneta, OR have been epic.

Look for a Matrix mix of the best soundboard/audience tapes available or mastered by Mr. Charlie Miller, they tend to sound the best, dropping into the jam of Playing or a favorite song can give you a sense if the band is 'on' that night.

and rizzx, check out their next show on 9/28/75 - its One From The Vault as a free show in Golden Gate Park. https://archive.org/details/gd1975-09-28.mtx.seamons.102155.sbeok.flac16

Sounds like a fun job! I've been telling myself stick to the albums available on Spotify because I always do that to myself, put restrictions on my listening. Barriers to prevent me from losing myself completely. But I'll check those archive shows out though!

Archive.org at least used to have almost every show in various file formats.
Like from 65 or 66 through to Garcias death in 96. Probably some of the related stuff too Other Ones, Furthur etc.
I think there was possibly some removed thanks to commercial releases or made into stream only or something.
I used to frequent the site in the early 00ies.
They also have a load of Dream Syndicate as well as quite a few other bands in less complete form.

I think I'm becoming a Pigpan fan, good grief

er Pigpen lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmP4BEIzE4s

Pigpen is their secret weapon----

Nah he's too much of a basic blues dude, with a lot of passion but still...I keep skipping his tunes after two minutes

I used to think that, but listening today to "I'm A King Bee" on the Port Chester 1971 live set on the 50th anniversary Workingman's Dead, I heard something deeper.

Hmmm shall give it a try, but maybe you're just tired? No but I am, I need a rousing PITB now

Lovelight from Live/Dead is where it's at

^^^
Possibly Pigpen's greatest moment (other than hiring the Hell's Angels at Altamont).

Mr Charlie, Easy Wind, that's all folks.

OPERATOR

doctor say better stop ballin that jack

Central done forgot it

As I promised myself, I listened to the 50th Anniversary Workingman's Dead today, Labor Day (getit?): YouTube rolled all sounds through my headphones right on cue, in a way I'd never noticed before (my old record player was not so good). Pitchfork review of this edition confirms Garcia and sound specialists meticulously planned the design, resulting in, as the 'fork points out, a combination of "bracing" clarity or maybe they said precision, with "weathered" textures of instruments, but I think weather is most of all generated from these songs def. being ones of experience---the rays of hopefulness come from experience of knowing you need 'em, also maybe from flashbacks. Clarity also reveals occasional vocal limitations I hadn't noticed before, ditto occasional lyrical limitations of Hunter's cracker barrel philosophizing. But many felicities of playing are now revealed (helps that I haven't listened in however long it's been), including even the double-drumming spotlight turn on "Easy Wind," which now sounds like old horses motivated to git up and dance on floorboards of the general store. I once made the mistake of listening to "Black Peter" when I was sick, not that sick, but put me off playing (or owning) the record any more---but now it sounds like one of their best studio tracks ever, incl. when they slam into, "See now how everything/Leads up to this day/It's just like every day, that's/Ever been." Yes!
Listened to most of the bonus show via archive.org: downloaded the vbr playlist and played some of it offline, even though its page is now marked "streaming only," since inclusion on the 50th Anniversary Ed., of course. Another xpost Charlie Miller flac from soundboard, and song selections go well enough with WD (charming Weir lead vocal on "Me and Bobbie McGhee"), also enjoying Bill's drumming without Mickey all through this. Several reviewers of several postings of this show say that it's not quite as hot as previous ones during this Feb. '71 visit to Port Chester, so I may check those too.

A bit confused by the mention of Garcia- I guess you mean the sound design of the original release, not this edition? Anyway, a great album, and "Black Peter" is a great track.

Yes, sorry, I was thinking of WD backstory in Stephen Thomas Erlewine's Pitchfork review of The Angel's Share, which I'll have to listen to:
Much of that precision can be chalked up to how the Grateful Dead mapped out all of Workingman’s Dead prior to recording the album with their live-sound team of Bob Matthews and Betty Cantor, a pair who shared a co-production credit with the band. Nothing was left to chance. Matthews, Cantor, and Garcia drew up a provisional sequencing during these sessions, circulating this rough draft on demo cassettes among the band. Rehearsals came next, then the rapid sessions, outtakes of which can be heard on The Angel’s Share, a digital-only collection released alongside the 50th Anniversary edition of Workingman’s Dead. The chief insight provided by The Angel’s Share is how Garcia kept the Dead on track, calling for changes in tempo and directing the arrangements so neither the song nor vibe is obscured. Compared to its willfully spacy predecessor Aoxomoxoa—an album the band recorded twice, as the band exhausted the possibilities of a new 16-track tape recorder while exhausting the patience and wallet of Warner Bros—the simplicity of Workingman’s Dead is bracing, even refreshing, but it’s the earthy, weathered grooves that give the album its distinct character and power.

The Feb. 71 show on on the Workingman's Dead 50th reissue is one of the best-sounding shows they've ever released. The show rocks too--the sound of Billy unchained

I tend to be cranky about remasters, but what jumped out at me on first listen to this one is that it's very "Phil Zone."

Sometimes clarity is the enemy imo. Modern engineering places way too much of a premium on clarity.

It may well be that I would have noticed those limitations I mentioned even w/o added clarity---actually I remember thinking the sound was too spare, sparse, even, but like I said, bad record player back then---not a prob now, and bringing out the bass may well have helped; I worked in a Dirty South CD store for several years, and must have bass. If you mean the live set, no prob with it there either, so far (though I haven't listened to the whole thing yet; it's long).

Sorry for two "may well"s

I meant the studio versions -- it's subtle, but Phil's bass just barely crossed the line from supportive into intrusive for me on certain songs

wow yeah the show accompanying the reissue sounds terrific

I'm trying to find earlier releases for comparison, but it seems like youtube may have auto-replaced them all with the 2020 remaster? Either that or they're mislabeled.

When I listened to the reissue, it really felt like hearing it again for the first time (though my first listen was only about nine years ago). It's a much more (and I'm not a fan of this overused term) immersive. And I've never been much of a fan of Three From The Vault, so I wasn't too excited about another show from that run, but they're really on fire here. Definitely (and strongly) prefer this to Three. Like J. Sam said, it's Billy unchained. On Three he sounded like, "uh-oh...what do I do without Mickey?" but two nights later he's all, "THIS is what I'll do without Mickey!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdq_gg9rJZ8&ab_channel=DSDtape

New newsletter, w link to hear Angel's Share of American Beauty, also podcast, then link to pre-order 50th Anniversary AB, ditto for next Dave's Picks:
http://view.email.dead.net/?qs=7c09a14552edfd1d0036a5e34b20833f9178db113d8e8f89fa613a7a5643983e2012adcf82122aa34784207164165d4d59d13e76e17f33748775a08bdcc865aa1dd7b6af32fcfbf8

The Good Ol' Grateful Deadcast is such a good podcast. Interview with Ned Lagen last week was so interesting, and they did a deep dive on If I Could Only Remember My Name. They have such good people working for them.