should i give the grateful dead a chance?

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is there more to them than 'dark' and 'truckin''? i was playing a television record and my dorm room mate said the english always compared them to the dead and that lee renaldo of sonic youth likes the dead as well as greg ginn of black flag. why are the dead so uncool? what should i try to listen to? (i know i don't like deadheads very much. tie-dye is as ugly as doing lsd in the mud). do my parents know something i don't?

(note, i've only been getting into music the past year. before that i just heard whatever on the radio and usually didnt like it. that should explain why i sound so dumb).

benton, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Short answer: NO.

Do not give the Grateful Dead a chance. I have given the Grateful Dead several chances, and they continue to bore me solid. Friends say "Oh, you're into 60s garage, listen to their first album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jams. Friends say "Oh, you like spacerock, listen to this or that experimental jam album..." nope, sorry, it's still uninspired hippie stoner jam drivel. Friends say "Oh, you have to listen to it on acid to get it." I listened to it on acid. It only stretched the INTERMINABLE boredom to the breaking point where it was a relief to sit and listen to radio static afterwards.

I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out-take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.

I know that calling a band "boring" is verboten on this forum. The Dead are not just boring, they are interminable, self indulgent, they noodle, they wibble, they do not drone in a transcendant manner, no they ANNIHILATE any sense of enjoyment of music to the point where I would rather listen to elevator music rather than the Dead. In fact, that is what they are. They are the elevator music of hippie stoner jam psychedelia.

Do not waste your time. Sing along with the hoover instead.

kate, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

'IS there more than [I assume you mean] 'Dark Star'? WTF? That's like saying "IS there more to the Sistine Chapel than the motherfucking ceiling?" Like, what else do you need in your life? (Besides 'BLues for Allah'!) Also, what's wrong with 'annihilating enjoyment'? Music is supposed to annihilate stuff, doesn't matter what it is.

dave q, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

As so often Kate is OTM. I bought "Live/Dead" a while ago as it appears on almost any milestone album list and it is rubbish. Aimless noodling. Only if you like epic guitar masturbation jams GD are yor you. I never understood how Lee Ranaldo could like them. But I have the feeling that "Murray Street" is the closest Sonic Youth have ever come to the sound of the Dead. It nevertheless is a million times better than anything I have ever heard of Garcia and his lot.

alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Just say no.

Andrew L, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Q: What do Grateful Dead fans say when they run out of drugs?

A: God this band are shit.

(Keith Richards tells that gag - which is a bit rich considering that 'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...)

Andrew L, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

American Beauty and Workingman's Dead are both snappy acoustic albums full of fine songs rather than rambling instrumental stuff.

I think they're worth checking out rather than applying some knee jerk reaction. But obviously lots of people don't agree.

Winkelmann, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

rather than applying some knee jerk reaction

Did you even read my fucking post? This is not some knee jerk reaction. This is a carefully thought out aesthetic decision that I have reached after repeated exposure and more consideration that I would give to most bands who repeatedly bombarded me with shit.

kate, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh why bother converting anybody - they're either 'on the bus or off!'

dave q, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I've heard 10 seconds of American Beauty and about a minute of Workingman's Dead and I can can safely say that they will not be troubling my ears again, unless by accident. Don't do it, Benton.

Everything about the Grateful Dead is repulsive - the music (yes I *can* judge them on a minute or so), the fans, the mythology.... They're a crystallisation of everything I dislike in music.

Dr. C, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

If you're looking to give a chance to a band, give it to an unknown band, not a bloated band.

Dave225, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

DIRTY HIPPY!

Chris, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm drawn back to this thread like a moth to a flame, just like I'm always drawn back to the Dead against my better judgment...

The thing is, I love the IDEA of the Dead - the endless noodling jams, those moments of improvisation when they reach the mythical 'zone', the community of fans, all those bootlegs to tick off and collect, the Verlaine-esque sound of Garcia's gtr, the vast quantities of drugs etc etc.

But - their recs just never seem to live up to the rep - before I ever listened to them, I imagined they were like the most mega-cosmic freak out group of all time, but when I finally did spin a few of their albs all I got was wimpy country-lite w/ really terrible singing. They rarely seem to rock out in any meaningful way, their cover versions are just AWFUL (esp. the 'bluesy' Pigpen-led stuff) and Hunter's lyrics are hippy bilge.

Without wishing to sound too alt snooty, Ghost and esp. Acid Mothers Temple do the whole folk-psych rock jam thing w/ so much more passion, imagination and freaky fun.

Andrew L, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Where do you hide your money from a Deadhead?
Under the soap...

How can you tell a Deadhead has been at your house?
They're still there!

Spongebob, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Nice "Box of Rain" reference, Andrew. For anyone interested, here is another thread on the Dead.

Mark, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"bloated" = 12 lizards' most successful meme-project evah

mark s, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

After avoiding the Grateful Dead for years and years, Biba Kopf's insane pro-Dead rantings convinced me to give Live/Dead a chance. It turns out that I like it pretty well but most everything else I hear is painful.

Just stay away from American Beauty 'cause it's terrible beyond words. And the best-of collection that all my loser quasi-hippie friends have is ass too.

adam, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Another joke: Jerry Garcia and Eric Clapton are captured by cannibals one day. Before they are about to be cooked for dinner they are granted one final wish. Jerry says "hand me my old guitar and let me play Dark Star one last time...". Eric says "please kill me before he starts". (For once I can sympathize with Eric Clapton, actually I think I have never listened to the 23 minutes and 15 seconds of this first track on Live/Dead from start to end. I'd probably drop dead because of nuisance before the end.)

alex in mainhattan, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Recycling the same lame gag = also a 'tribute' to the Dead...

Andrew L, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

'Can You Hear Me Knocking' sounds just like the Dead...

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

hstencil, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

I knew when I saw this thread appear it would be full of the usual "the Dead are the worst band ever" stuff... they seem to be one of a small handful of bands it's ok to heap your worst insults on around here. So I'll do my usual and say yes "American Beauty" and "Workingman's Dead" are full of concise, well-written pop songs, their mid 70's LPs on their own label are amazing ("Blues for Allah" is my pick), and as great a guitarist as Tom Verlaine is, Garcia is better. He's a better vocalist, too. I know that for whatever reason the Dead are a band many people will just never permit themselves to like, so I expect to make no converts.

Sean, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Benton- check 'live/dead' and see what you think of it. And don't forget to give it a few listens on the headphones, too. The reason why some ppl passionately hate them is prob. because their sound really sounds from a completely diff era. The fact that ppl justify their hatred by the citing the fact that hippies listen to them is enough to surely dismiss their reckless opinions. Though andrew L has a good argument as ususal. But I found something to listen to in their jams and he didn't.

I think SY owe a lot to the dead in the way that they'd start a song and then they would use that as a basis for a jam and get back to the song.

The singing isn't to everyone's tastes but at a time when ppl are listening to Thom Yorke that isn't such a big problem.

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

But Julio, Kate has clearly heard them as well. You're not dismissing her out of hand, yes?

For myself, they don't trouble my interest, and I can't say they will be anytime soon.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

No, I don't think I recall the Dead ever having extended sax solos in any of their songs.

You obviously never heard Branford Marsalis jam with them, then.

Nope, and although I'm sure he's, uh, "funkier" than his brother, I can't imagine his jams with the Dead approach the instrumental break of "Can You Hear Me Knocking" (which was, after all, used by many a black "urban" radio station in the 1970s as promo music). Anyway, the point was that the claim that "Can You Hear Me Knocking" sounds like the Dead is way, way off-base.

hstencil, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Have I just stumbled into Dawson's Creek series 4?

david h, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

ned- kate was OK until the line below:

''I think that Deadheadism is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have it, you will like them. If you do not have it, then no ammount of "Dude, no, you have to hear this most ultimate jam session that they did on this super-rare collectible live bootleg out- take from 1973..." in the world will ever convince you to find even a modicum of interest.''

it's bollocks! any band will have it's fans and haters but to dismiss it as 'chemical imbalance' is bullshit. Plus the 'annihalate' line (see dave q's ans).

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

That line was the funniest part of Kate's post!

Personally, the only song of theirs that I can instantly recognize is "Touch Of Grey". I'm fine with that.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

it was funny, yes, I second that!

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

how is television like the grateful dead? why do people say that? my room mate, yancy, says its because of the the two guitars. is that true?

benton, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

you should definitely give them a try, particularly before '74 (live). Live/Dead is the make or break place to start; took me about five listens but soon I understood the big deal. Rhino's recent WB-era box is a lot to ask of a novice, so wait till they reissue each album individually and then go for it; the remastering is astounding, sounds 100 times better and I loved it already anyway....

M Matos, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

the thing is, when the Dead were on they were ON. they could be the most heartbreaking, moving band in the world. the problem is 90% of the time they WEREN't on.

chaki, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Friend of the Devil is a flat-out amazing song. I used to be in a band with my dad and we did this song. It's fucking great.

Yancey, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

MMatos in I Love the Dead shocker.

Mark, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I've been exposed to thier music countless times by many people who have a good understanding of what I like/ don't like. I just can't seem to find anything by them that would be worth my time to keep a copy of. The stuff we are all bombarded with is usually lite country or big noodling solos that for me go nowhere, while the live tapes you gotta hear maaannn is the same, but with alot more noodling that goes nowhere.

brg30, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"Ripple" is a great song if someone else sings it

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

A: "Hey, what are you listening to?"
B: "Oh, it's, uh, Kremlin Tiger Flower, uh, 2506. Have you heard them before?"
A: "Hmmm, it sounds familiar."
B: "They're a Japanese noise band from the '70s. Original LPs are like $500 on Ebay, but, uh, this label out of Amsterdam just reissued their album and I got it from Forced Exposure."
A: "Oh, yeah, I've heard of that...wow, this is awesome. It sounds like Sonic Youth or the Dead C or something."
B: "Yeah, I can hear that, I guess."
A: (listens) "Totally. Sonic Youth is totally ripping these guys off."
(pause)
B: "Actually, I'm just fucking with you. It's a Dead bootleg, they're doing 'Feedback'."
A: "It's a Dead C bootleg? Wow, this is, like, the best stuff I've ever heard from them. How'd you get -- "
B: "No, no, it's the Grateful Dead."
A: (runs screaming from the room, snarky hipster credibility permanently ruined)

Phil, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

P.S. I love Live/Dead, "Box of Rain", some other stuff. On the other hand, there's plenty of Grateful Dead that is of no interest to me. I was listening to their first album today, and was quite surprised at how little of it appealed to me.

Phil, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

My personal favorite is Dick's Picks 4... but I agree Live/Dead is a good place to start. Also check out the studio versions of some of their songs (as people have already mentioned): "Friend of the Devil," "Ripple," "Uncle John's Band," "Playing in the Band," "China Cat Sunflower," and "Jack Straw."

aaron m, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

thank you everyone for great suggestions. you are much appreciated.

benton, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Surprised that no one has namechecked John Oswald's _Grayfolded_ which is a dozen or so different "Dark Star"s run together into a plunderphonic whole. Worth checking out - certainly a lot more interesting than _Live/Dead_ or any of the other endless collections of chicken-scratch guitar.

If you're still hell bent on checking out the Dead, I'd start with any of the Dick's Picks live releases from 1972 or earlier. Even then, listening to them are like trying to dig for gold in a mine that's been completely played out. There's a lot of shovelling involved for very little payoff.

Chris Barrus, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Phil, that reminds me of something I wrote a couple years ago....

M Matos, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

ha ha phil's post about fooling someone that it's the grunt mountain travelling flower band or some shit is so right on...fuck the deadc., fuck em!

new doorag boogie, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

what chaki said is pretty much exactly true tho. wtf i'm still on the bus, not that i'd wanna have much to do w/ the other ocupants.

, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Chicago's 'feedback' is still better than the Dead's 'feedback'.

Andrew L, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Andrew, I think you mean "Free Form Guitar". Which IS classic, btw.

dave q, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

chicago transit authority (to give em their full title) > the dead c.!

unknown or illegal user, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i find it hard to believe that someone could confuse the Dead C with the Grateful Dead. Besides the ingestion of pot and long songs, I don't see the connection (and yes I have heard more than my fair share of both Garcia & Co and the Dead C -- I'm not making a value judgement about which group is better) -- does Bruce Russell sell hand painted ties too?

Jack Cole, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Brain chemistry has a HELL of a lot to do with why some people fine some music interesting and others don't. I did not invalidate my argument, I proved it. I have had long discussions with friends about brain chemistry leading people to like dronerock, and how repeated exposure to ultra-high volume feedback can change brain chemistry. Listening to the piece of music while stoned, while on coke, while drunk, while on E (for various examples) can result in completely different experiences of the music.

How is the Grateful Dead any different?

There must just be a neurotransmitter that makes people like SHIT, that is the explanation.

kate, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

DIRTY HIPPY!

Chris, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

do you mean that you've had long conversations with your neurochemist friends?

Josh, Wednesday, 24 July 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

looool

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 10 June 2019 15:37 (three months ago) link

is that pejorative?

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 10 June 2019 15:37 (three months ago) link

I didn't get that sense, no

Ambient Police (sleeve), Monday, 10 June 2019 15:38 (three months ago) link

that 2/14/70 DS is fantastic, the other one on that dicks picks also rips if you skip the 9 minute drum into

global tetrahedron, Monday, 10 June 2019 15:39 (three months ago) link

i'm actually listening to Dick's Picks Vol 4 right now, this might be the best Dead I've heard

I was listening to the Portland Memorial 5/19/74 started great but they butchered the fuck out of Box of Rain to such a degree I quit, so weird how they killed China Cat and Rider then sounded like a substandard bar band that half learned their own song

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 10 June 2019 16:14 (three months ago) link

Phil's live vocals are always horrendous

Ward Fowler, Monday, 10 June 2019 16:17 (three months ago) link

their inability to play "box of rain" well in a live setting is pretty baffling — probably Lesh's fault.
lol xp

tylerw, Monday, 10 June 2019 16:18 (three months ago) link

so weird how they killed {x song] then sounded like a substandard bar band that half learned their own song

"in every Grateful Dead show ever"

Ambient Police (sleeve), Monday, 10 June 2019 16:19 (three months ago) link

I recently learned that dudes who dig the new Dead & Co thing are referred to as "CoBros"

I'll be going to my fourth and fifth Dead & Co. shows this weekend and I have never heard this before. If it's a thing, I'm guessing it was coined by the Dead & Co. deniers.

While they are definitely no Dead and the slow tempos absolutely kill me sometimes, the vibe of the shows are incredibly fun. Oteil and Jeff are the (not so) secret MVPs of this configuration and Josh fits in way better than I could have ever imagined. I don't ever spend time listening to Dead & Co. shows at home, but I've had a lot of fun each time I've seen them.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 June 2019 16:36 (three months ago) link

I saw it in a slang-drenched wook meme that I can't bring myself to post but you should see it if you GIS for "primally puddled"

Ambient Police (sleeve), Monday, 10 June 2019 16:40 (three months ago) link

Ha, I don't spend a lot of time in wook meme world, so that may explain it. I wouldn't doubt it's a thing in some circles though.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 June 2019 16:41 (three months ago) link

I've been really high on Morning Dew from Europe 72 lately. I just went and listened to the Cornell 77 version and it's amazing how much less magical it sounds, almost like a cover band playing the same song.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 10 June 2019 16:50 (three months ago) link

Yeah, "Morning Dew" is one of the few songs that I don't think translated very well to their '77 style.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 June 2019 16:56 (three months ago) link

studio box of rain is a gorgeous, wistful meditation on life and loss that sounds like the universe itself telling you everything will be ok. live box of rain is an out of tune trainwreck w/ grandpa simpson on vocals.

oiocha, Monday, 10 June 2019 17:00 (three months ago) link

ha that is a great description but not ALWAYS true! they tightened Box of Rain up considerably in 89/90 I think

this is some excellent dead conversation btw, keep it coming

tobo73, Monday, 10 June 2019 17:08 (three months ago) link

agreed!

Ambient Police (sleeve), Monday, 10 June 2019 17:10 (three months ago) link

I've been mostly spending time in 1970, thanks to Dave's Picks 30 (1/2/70 & 1/3/70). The Live/Dead suite ("Dark Star > St. Stephen > Eleven") is great, but I'm surprised by how much I keep going back to the Pig tunes on this one.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 June 2019 17:13 (three months ago) link

mentioned above, but the save your face blog is an excellent resource for various weird corners of Dead sounds ... http://saveyourface.posthaven.com/
was just listening to a 1983 rehearsal that (no joke) was a dead ringer for Arthur Russell.

tylerw, Monday, 10 June 2019 17:14 (three months ago) link

Save Your Face is a must read.

Assuming everyone is up on Thoughts on the Dead, love someone that clearly loves the band but is unafraid to puncture the mythology.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 June 2019 17:16 (three months ago) link

so weird how they killed China Cat and Rider then sounded like a substandard bar band that half learned their own song

yes, and they're up against one of their best studio moments ever & one of their finest songs -- Box of Rain is an outlier I think, doesn't really fit it with their live look at all. It is disappointing that they never, to the best of my knowledge, figure out a way to make it work live, it's so good, despite trying over 100 times.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 10 June 2019 17:35 (three months ago) link

save your face blog rules even though it hasn't quite converted me to 94 just yet. deadessays blogspot is also fun to read through if you want to get deep, deep into the weeds, i discovered the 6/24/70 aud from there, now one of my all time faves.

oiocha, Monday, 10 June 2019 18:21 (three months ago) link

Though defunct, http://www.deadlistening.com/ led me to some great shows, but it may exceed one's tolerance for the type of comments mentioned a few posts up:

Here the audience tape provides a glimpse into the sonic tidal wave of the Grateful Dead in a fashion not readily available in any other tape this reviewer can bring to memory. After the “lady finger” section of the song proves to be intensely personal - it is so within the head that the head expands to fill all space - the flash pot/gunshot that follows becomes an endgame for the senses. The music becomes enormous, even cataclysmic, as if towering forces are locked in battle. Galaxies collide, exploding in endless eruptions. Above it all, a cymbal swell begins to take form, certainly a mainstay portion of this tune. But this tape brings it into bone bleaching focus. The swell begins to level everything in its path, yet the music muscles its way even higher. Nothing is left of personal space. There is no room left. Here, we are lost to the music. We are gone. And the sound wall continues to roar. This one passage delivers the goods so completely, it starts to make sense why people would religiously follow the band from show to show for decades. You come out on the other side wondering, what just happened? Sensational.

blatherskite, Monday, 10 June 2019 19:53 (three months ago) link

that's almost poll-worthy

Ambient Police (sleeve), Monday, 10 June 2019 19:57 (three months ago) link

lol it's hard to remember sometimes that those cosmic pronouncements are about the same band that could also produce this (on the same site!)

Mind you, I am walking you into Bob’s “learn slide guitar on the job” phase, and I apologize in advance for this. Haven’t heard about how bad Bob was on slide? Well, my friends… there is little to say, and painfully plenty to hear.

confusementalism (Dan Peterson), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:36 (three months ago) link

Sometimes I just wonder if deadheads have ever heard any other bands before.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 10 June 2019 20:37 (three months ago) link

It makes for ideal pastures as far as I’m concerned. And in listening to the more exploratory expanses of this fine show I am continually brought to the state of mind where my eyes can no longer perceive the physical space around me. The vivid imagery which floods my vision while my eyes are closed tight suffuses everything continually. And in that vision where light burns around shadows and perspective swims in a sea of joy, I am repeatedly exposed to a musical journey which seems to travel through a landscape constructed of a Mandelbrot set fractal.

I kid, rather than mock — I wish something would move me as much as any given Dead show moves this blogger!

blatherskite, Monday, 10 June 2019 21:03 (three months ago) link

Sometimes I just wonder if deadheads have ever heard any other bands before.

In my experience, most Deadheads I've met fall into one of two camps - all Dead/Garcia all the time, or voracious listeners with surprisingly varied tastes.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:07 (three months ago) link

i respect the Dead for a few reasons:
- the loyalty they inspire
- the band and its followers' role in tape and bootleg culture
- a few decent studio cuts

otherwise, i'm totally lost as to what the fuck is the big deal. most of it is unlistenable garbage even if one is high as giraffe balls.

(and like posters at the beginning of the thread, i've tried plenty of times, i sold drugs when i was an Oberlin student)

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:27 (three months ago) link

xp yeah obviously the second kind exist in good numbers, but it's the first kind that's sort of dumbfounding sometimes. They talk like Jerry invented improvising, like no other band has ever gone "outside," like john coltrane hadn't already made his most experimental albums and died by the time the first grateful dead record came out (roughly), like there wasn't also stuff like electric Miles and Mahavishnu orchestra by the time Europe 72 came out, etc.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:30 (three months ago) link

I had a friend who for a long time listened almost exclusively to classical music with the Dead as his one concession to popular music.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:32 (three months ago) link

xp yeah obviously the second kind exist in good numbers, but it's the first kind that's sort of dumbfounding sometimes. They talk like Jerry invented improvising, like no other band has ever gone "outside," like john coltrane hadn't already made his most experimental albums and died by the time the first grateful dead record came out (roughly), like there wasn't also stuff like electric Miles and Mahavishnu orchestra by the time Europe 72 came out, etc.

Oh yeah, getting stuck in a convo with one of those heads that can't (or won't) acknowledge improvisation in any other context are maddening. You try to mention Coltrane or any sort of contemporary improv scene and they just stare blankly before swinging back to a "but Jerry".

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 10 June 2019 21:37 (three months ago) link

what i find interesting about these sorts of conversations is that it makes me wonder what value i find in bands like...well, let's say NNCK, or why i sometimes listen to old WWVV live sets on a loop all day. maybe it's the influence of jazz, noise, and electronics? this is the most palpable reason i've ever settled on, because part of why i can't stand the Dead is that their sound has always struck me as incredibly "thin," and i think part of that is simply instrumentation.

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Monday, 10 June 2019 22:01 (three months ago) link

I had a friend who for a long time listened almost exclusively to classical music with the Dead as his one concession to popular music.

― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, June 10, 2019 4:32 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That basically describes Keith Godchaux IIRC

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 10 June 2019 22:11 (three months ago) link

ya i dunno i think this sounds pretty good. some of these videos i've seen have verged on embarassing but they sound nice!

https://www.facebook.com/BobbyWeir/videos/464980101037007/?__xts__[0]=68.ARB60fBGKZ6W1CaXJpOKOp2vKqIXxhyRaClS9bgIwz4z0_41pFWJOqUy5emaQzGccTo8FHLYHKzQPpwJdR-rUNIltMiZ6aFujZ_KZhxkf_VoyRjwJmUCw-p0VHNCjs4S_IOvz8ClVqtY8TVjwWIQ8Z1S83iU627ES7XucaXT3CZe4uYONo4j2HwPzuh9-mxHyTw87IXZO6DFqrh1VX_-siLVwgvwcAOE9tEZG8sjdWUGuDShlajO_yMFuIjqXvQloNnyIGZ_7NXcJyBpLGkYv7lwGen0Sj1u4RjzbkAvSXujs8CyA-LbHswYL3inWTIFNlGO5UKPqSolUwUx-VWkNHg5Tw6DjsF-ELE&__tn__=-R

global tetrahedron, Saturday, 15 June 2019 21:46 (three months ago) link

still not convinced they mic mickey until drums/space tho

global tetrahedron, Saturday, 15 June 2019 21:48 (three months ago) link

doing my daily ritual of listening to This Day in History and wondering if anyone of Throbbing Gristle were into the Dead? I'm actually listening to Seastones for a change and it sounds very 'Industrial'. Whole show is killer, Wall of Sound AUD. Providence 6-26-74

https://archive.org/details/gd74-06-26.moore.weiner.gdADT17.16037.sbeok.shnf/gd74-06-26d3t01.shn

llurk, Wednesday, 26 June 2019 22:34 (two months ago) link

def a possibility:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/fd/94/41fd9471bbfacb0ee74e56f98f3968a4.jpg

Ambient Police (sleeve), Wednesday, 26 June 2019 22:37 (two months ago) link

ha! God(dess) Bless E

llurk, Wednesday, 26 June 2019 22:57 (two months ago) link

Switched to the Matrix and Bill now has 8 arms.

I always thought Seastones was more filler entr'acte new age electronics, not grotty bass feedback and ring oscillation through 1000 speakers.

llurk, Wednesday, 26 June 2019 23:38 (two months ago) link

seastones is something that should be entirely my scene in theory but is just so tedious in practice

only lagin/dead i dig is the SNACK benefit, now there is the wanky prog jams i always wanted from the dead

Flood-Resistant Mirror-Drilling Machine (rushomancy), Thursday, 27 June 2019 00:03 (two months ago) link

This is a pretty good writeup of a recent Dead & Co. show. Normally I hate this kind of "young person parachutes into cultural phenomenon, comes away unimpressed" story, but this one is well written.

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 27 June 2019 19:44 (two months ago) link

I felt a pang of regret at not going to the Citi show -- he played WOLF maaaaaan! I feel like it would have been fun in a certain way just to experience even an echo of the atmosphere of Dead shows since I never got to attend one. Then I was reminded that even in the $150 seat I almost bought off a friend I'd basically be watching them on a giant television, and then I watched a couple of videos of some pretty weak and sloppy drumming behind John Mayer's highly skilled but somehow unspirited soloing ("too perfect" in the same sense that Miles found George Coleman's solos to be, no risk taking, no mistakes) and a very unpleasantly noodly piano. I still have mixed feelings about not having gone just bc it could be "the last chance." I'm very torn between "the whole thing is a boomer con" and "experience something larger than yourself" in my views on it.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 27 June 2019 19:50 (two months ago) link

The Morning Dew sounded pretty good. Maybe I should just try to go see the current Bob Weir thing sometime -- he's fun.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 27 June 2019 19:51 (two months ago) link

he's "doing it for the kids," or the kids' money... if the kids were a bunch of boomers who never stopped smoking pot and thought of themselves as "cool parents"

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Thursday, 27 June 2019 22:22 (two months ago) link

sorry, i'm being a bitch, i just hate the Dead

blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Thursday, 27 June 2019 22:22 (two months ago) link

i skipped this year but i went to citi night 2 in 2018 and i'd say there was a bunch of stuff that was pleasant but kinda plodding and a genuinely great 20 minutes of communal joy during st stephen -> the eleven. experiencing that moment in a stadium was pretty powerful. i don't dare to listen back though.

the best piece of dead journalism ever imo is jeff weiss's magnum opus on fare thee well : https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/6wqgz4/the-grateful-dead-chicago-fare-thee-well-2015

oiocha, Thursday, 27 June 2019 23:02 (two months ago) link

sorry, i'm being a bitch, i just hate the Dead

― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Thursday, June 27, 2019 5:22 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

don't flatter yourself that we care either way

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 28 June 2019 14:42 (two months ago) link

I still have mixed feelings about not having gone just bc it could be "the last chance."

i love the dead but let's be real "the last chance" was a few decades ago and yes this is a boomer con. you are not missing much. i went last summer and had fun laying on a blanket on the grass getting high w/ friends but it was too expensive just for that, it's really just another outdoor concert, and the music was more or less equivalent to a dead cover band. "something larger than yourself" at a dead & co show in 2019 is mostly the screen that you are watching them on and the sea of drunk fans who are mostly in pretty rough shape.

marcos, Friday, 28 June 2019 14:54 (two months ago) link

thx, ur a good dude for putting my regrets to rest

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 28 June 2019 15:04 (two months ago) link

two months pass...

I used to think all live Grateful Dead was all just a single, interminable song. Now that's exactly what I love about it.

longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 15 September 2019 01:00 (three days ago) link


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