'Marquee Moon' LP is overrated

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Overlong, ponderous, kinda pretentious guitar anthems in which the guitars aren't doing anything all that interesting. What makes this such a classic aside from just being NYC 77?

Aaron A., Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

How is it 'pretentious'? (no offense, but this is a word used as vaguely and uninterestingly as the dreaded 'influence')

Andrew L, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

i find some pretense in the yelpy punk vocals and presumption in the length of a few songs.

Aaron A., Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

nah. marquee moon the track goes for 10 minutes and still manages to feel like a perfect 2 minute pop song. classic.

minna, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

'guitar anthems'?!= Aaron what have you been somking?

it is a nice alb but hasn't aged too well I guess.

Julio Desouza, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

tha bove should say smoking.

Julio desouza, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Sorry, I disagree. If anything, it's underheard: a critic's record that many others would love if they even knew it was out there. Sounds as fresh today as when I bought it those eons ago.

What's funny to me is how much it seemed back then that Verlaine was aping Patti Smith's vocal mannerisms. When I listen now, they don't really sound at all alike!

Matt Riedl (veal), Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Ended up hearing "See No Evil," "Friction" and "Marquee Moon" yesterday while record shopping and loved them all again after having not heard them for many moons. So for those three, hurrah!

Ned Raggett, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I think it's probably a bit overrated but it's still good. Title track ruled the world of spooky graveyard pop until "Thriller". "See No Evil" and "Venus De Milo" I really like - propulsive, and the low- fat soloing works well: they were kind of the guitar-interplay band for people who don't really like guitar-interplay I suspect. In other words it may well be that what you think of as "interesting" guitar stuff would horrify TV's fastidious fans.

Tom, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

If anything is pretentious on that album, it's Verlaine's 'poetic' posturings... often sophomoric and never very rock. But I'm not really a lyric guy anyway, so it's fine for me. I just listen to Richard Lloyd, sounding quite often like the other Dick, Thompson. The guitar playing is great... and that's what saves Adventure as well, definitely the weaker album.

Andy, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Pretentiousness is underrated.

Isn't Rhino supposed to reissue the record somewheres down the pipeline?

Andy K, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

It's still in print - would they do one of those "deluxe" reissues with the Eno demos, live cuts, etc. (including, ahem, "Little Johnny Jewel" 45 presumably)?

J Blount, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

We were listening to it in the van the other day. Jane had never heard it before. The first three tracks, she asked, quite interested, "Oh, what is this?" but as the album dragged on and on and on, she shrugged and said "God, sometimes I just can't figure out what it is that people see in the music that they like..."

Which is a pretty fair asessment. See No Evil is one of the most genius songs I've ever heard, the guitar work is propulsive and sinewy and intriguing and amazing. But it's great because it's a short, sharp blast. And then there's just another forty minutes of endless noodling. But that ONE SONG makes it a total classic that I can never deny.

kate, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I keep wanting to like Television as much as I should, and I even own all three of the albums. But they just don't do it for me. So yes, "Marquee Moon" is overrated.

paul, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

this is one of the least anthemic rock guitar sounds ever. props to the 10min marquee moon=2min perfect pop song comment. i still get anxious when it fades out 'cause i want more still.

ddd, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

'guitar anthems'?!= Aaron what have you been somking?

are the songs not anthemic and guitar-dominated? I don't mean Joe Satriani gutar anthems.

BTW I do think MM is a fine album. "Venus de Milo" being my favorite track. The guitar in that one is thrilling.

Maybe a followup thread about if these classic NYC guitarists were wasted on Matthew Sweet. I say "nah."

Aaron A., Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't hear anything particular 'anthemic' about the album, but I'd agree that it is rather hotly touted by rock critic cogniscenti, almost to the point of being overrated. When I first heard it, I never could undestand why the term "Punk" had been affixed to it, being that it owed very little to the speedy clamor of the Ramones etc. and because it seemed to completely eschew Punk's disregard for guitar solos. It should be remembered, however, that Television were being called Punk before the stereotype of mohican safety-pin buzzsaw brevity had been firmly set in stone. Moreover, the solos on offer on MARQUEE MOON dodged conventional guitar soloing completely.

Alex in NYC, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

tha bove should say smoking.
somke 'em if you got 'em!

Lord Custos III, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

"Marquee Moon" might be the best sex song ever. When his guitar finally cums in that long-ass solo, it's ecstasy!

Yancey, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

It's good, not as good as "Blank Generation," but still good. "Venus De Milo" is grate. "Prove It" is also grate. "Marquee Moon" is good but too long. Lester Bangs said they sounded like the Grateful Dead. I disagree with Lester, but I sorta see what he means--it's certainly not "punk."

A scorecard:

"Marquee Moon" v. "Evol" = "Evol" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Master of Puppets" = "Master" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Double Nickels on the Dime" = "Double Nickles" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Babble" = "Marquee Moon" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Bandwagonesque" = "Marquee Moon" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Entertainment" = "Entertainment" wins "Marquee Moon" v. "Pink Flag" = "Pink Flag" wins

Hmm.

J, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Marquee Moon vs. Marquee Moon -- Tie!

Sterling Clover, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

i still get anxious when it fades out 'cause i want more still.

On the CD version the fade out is removed, but the song now has an ending, sadly.

How come no one's mention the album's highlight for me, "Elevation"? Surely I can't be the only one who likes that song, can I? For that song alone, I don't think the album can be considered overrated.

Vic Funk, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Two Sides of the Moon vs. The Biz Never Sleeps = ???

Yancey, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Marquee Moon is the album that taught me there was more to life than bar chords

electric sound of jim, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Prove It is truly excellent. I even like (and understand) the lyrics!

"First you creep Then you leap! Up about a hundred feet, You're in so deep Then you could write a book!"

The Strokes sound more like Television than any other band I can think of.

Chris Sallis, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

True, it has been somewhat overhyped, or at least out of proportion to its genuine but mortal appeal. That said, the guitars and crafty, off-center rhythm section almost always work for me, and when they falter, the lyrics save the day. I mean, come on--Verlaine's a pretty funny guy, and his oblique maunderings are no worse than those of any contemporary indie celebutante.

Lee G, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I think the Lyrics are self-satirical mostly, and I don't see how that can be congruent with pretensiousness.

As for the guitars - anthemic or no, they're still fucking great.

Andrew, Monday, 8 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

The various live and demo versions of MM songs are ace. Except for 'Venus de Milo', it was probably a bad idea to slow them down on the album; they benefit from guitar acrobatics.

ciaran, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I always thought this was the one record that actually deserved to be on all those best-of-all-time lists. I'll admit that my mind wanders a bit during side two, but side one is the most joyous testament to the thrill of an unpredictably perfect guitar part I've heard...not a wasted note, or a cliched one. The songs are terrific and catchy as hell, but it's impossible to imagine them being played any other way...the distinction between songwriting and arranging is completely erased. It's a unique "guitar hero" album because the guitar heroics are not about Lloyd and Verlaine expressing themselves as individuals but about four musicians playing off each other and creating something incredibly specific to the sound and personality of each player and each part. And when they do solo, there's something really thrilling about hearing the tightly wound, angular interplay of early Talking Heads, XTC and Devo effortlessly explode into rock epic mode...precise and disciplined and reckless and free like it's the most natural thing in the world.

Clyde, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

People always go on about the guitars - for me, it's the rhythm section that makes this record. The drumming, especially, is incredibly tight & carries the whole record, anchoring a set of razor sharp ensemble playing that reminds me of the Miles Davis Quintet round about "Milestones" - that New York amphetamine edgy sound.

Bham, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Verlaine is a guitar god. Marquee Moon and See No Evil are amazing, but taking the album as a whole I think overrated is probably right.

bert, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

To be honest, I don't know this album that well. I've heard some of it at someone's place once. Adventure is bloody awful except for the first two songs though. Television might have been even worse.

sundar subramanian, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Ooh, I love this album...

Dan I., Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

the one rock lyricist who does the literary symbolism thing that I lap up every time, from first to last without a shadow of distaste or doubt. gotta love him.

Pulpo, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

anyone heard 'The blow up' live CD?

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I see no one's stuck up for the closer "Torn Curtain." Does this count as one of the worst album closing tracks ever or what? Verlaine's voice even sounds like Bob Geldof on it!

Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

yep, it's fantastic but best of all is the 15 minute version of Little Johnny Jewel, the middle part of which I would be very interested to hear your opinions on, Julio. It is an extended guitar solo that ends up sounding a bit like "ascension"! It's heart- stoppingly good.

Mes amis, I have now dropped the hefty clangers of Television=as good as literary symbolism and Television=as good as Coltrane. I am redefining the very concept of "overrated"!!

pulpo, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

pulpo i think i have to get this now!

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

i've got the blow up on roir tape, julio

television = bettah than coltrane but who isn't eh?

torn curtain falls into the "it is named after a film" twilight zone of inevitable uselessness, no?

mark s, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

mark: you actually have the cassete (i know this has been reissued on CD, at least i think so)?

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah i think so, whether i can find it is another issue!!

mark s, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

mark- you have all these recs and yet you lose them (same w/MMM). if you find it then you should give them to moi.

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

mmm is only one i have genuinely lost: can't find just means stupidly filed

mark s, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Verlaine always sounds to me like a non-rub Jerry Garcia. Crossed w/ a bit of Roger McGuinn (esp. as heard on 'Eight Miles High', the Byrds' Coltrane rip)

'The Blow Up' is prob. O/P - haven't seen any ROIR releases for ages - but a (French, I think) company called Danceteria did issue it on CD - it's not exactly a rare rec, anyway. There's a vinyl version as well.

The sound quality is just on the edge of tolerable, sadly, but parts of it are

Andrew L, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

''The sound quality is just on the edge of tolerable''

I can cope w/that. I have a 'descension' alb after all.

Julio Desouza, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

found it in one: am playing now to see if giving to julio is an option

mark s, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

haha it sounds like the only mikes in use are the ones billy ficca is using instead of drumsticks => it's a keeper julio, but i can copy you a cassette if you like for saturday (loss of quality = improvement hifi-wise, frankly)

mark s, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I like looking at the Marquee Moon covah while I listen to Blank Generation.

nathalie, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

The second half is kind of a drag, but this album is just full of good ideas that no-one ever really followed up on. I get the same thing out of Marquee Moon that I get out of the second Raincoats album, and maybe YYZ by Rush, and maybe even the Dead if they ever managed to demand any attention -- some sort of Ornette-esque incidental harmony/rhythm thing happening. Those snaky, ringing leads are just awesome, not so much dueling guitars as it's like one guitar played with four hands. It's pretty much the only thing classic about NYC 77, far as I can tell.

Kris, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

One thing I'll always love about ILM is ILMers capacity to be dismissive of amazing records/artists, keep it up guys!

But Marquee Moon definitely deserves all of the hype it gets, and more. I mean any record with "Venus", "Elevation", "Guiding Light" must have something going for it. Sublime.

Anas FK, Tuesday, 9 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

LL that anti-JAR button is now a deliciously vexing non sequitur! I love it!

Life is v confusing with the avant-garage Dave Thomas and the burgermeister Dave Thomas and the SCTV Dave Thomas and god knows how many other dave thomases out there making art and running companies and murdering ppl & c & c

the urinalysis of fire (Jon Lewis), Monday, 7 April 2014 22:09 (six years ago) link

Last time I heard this was when I was browsing at the Notting Hill Book exchange, then the guy started playing a computer game halfway through so you had all of these sound effects crossed w/Guiding Light I think. Like he ws passing a judgment on it.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 7 April 2014 22:16 (six years ago) link

I need to get that Mars record.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 7 April 2014 22:18 (six years ago) link

I had a dream this was playing in a store recently

très hip (Treeship), Monday, 7 April 2014 22:58 (six years ago) link

I think it was a dream. I have a distinct memory of hearing it but the store that comes to mind in association with this memory doesn't seem familiar. I'm losing it

très hip (Treeship), Monday, 7 April 2014 22:59 (six years ago) link

It took me 25 years to get into this album. AND IT WAS WORTH EVERY MINUTE.

a lot of really bad records changed my life (staggerlee), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 05:32 (six years ago) link

the only time i saw dave thomas he marched the whole band offstage mid-set to yell at them.
then he got mad at the crowd and forbid any merch to be sold.

― Raptain Chillips (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, April 7, 2014 4:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha, yeah, the guy is a hoot! definitely has stage presence though.

― tylerw, Monday, April 7, 2014 4:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Saw Dave twice; first time was with RFTT (with Richard Lloyd, who killed). He sat down most of the set, chugging from a bottle of Courvoisier. After the show, he personally sold CDs, still sitting on the stage. He did this to get around the venue's policy of taking 20% of all merch sales. I said something like, "I love your work" and he said, "OK. Whaddya want?"

Second time I saw him was when Pere Ubu did a live soundtrack to The Man With The X-Ray Eyes. It was pretty great, but Dave kept wildly "conducting" the rest of Ubu, who would have none of it, and completely ignored his gesticulations (e.g., he would make a dramatic "cut-off" signal, and they just kept going).

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 14:14 (six years ago) link

That live soundtrack to The Man With X-Ray Eyes was great. Thomas stood outside after the gig and basically just glared at people. I thought about telling him how cool it was, but he did not look interested at all.

grandavis, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 14:20 (six years ago) link

answer to thread question: absolutely, i think this album is terribly overrated. i never got it at all. there is so much noodling, so much guitar wankery leading nowhere on it. the trackss are too long and too unimaginative. i wouldn't call it pretentious, i just find it terribly boring and uninteresting. i preferred the comeback album to "marquee moon".

it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 16:25 (six years ago) link

i knew i had answered this before, couldn't find my post as it was a skipped message...

it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 16:33 (six years ago) link

Well, you know, whatever floats your boat, or sinks it in this case... Patti Smith's the one I've never quite got

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 16:35 (six years ago) link

i really liked the feelies anyway. they must have been big television fans. i REALLY liked the feelies in the 80's. oh i know the minutemen! i don't love them in the same way i don't love television. people who really like television probably really like the minutemen too. just a guess. pretty much everyone i know and hang out with likes the minutemen a bunch. (when i was a kid i liked the project mersh ep and their van halen cover and "little man with a gun in his hand".) (i don't think i've ever made it all the way through double nickles...) (so add minutemen to young marble giants, the saints, and television when it comes to bands i have tried hard to like and never loved...)

scott seward, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:35 (six years ago) link

Really dont get how this album = meandering wankery.

Everything on this album is there for a reason

Master of Treacle, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:46 (six years ago) link

yeah it's always felt extremely composed to me, not jammy

Raptain Chillips (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:52 (six years ago) link

the alternate takes on the reissue are interesting because the solos are not vastly different, but different enough to a) verify that there was a bit of improvisation or trying new things in each takes and b) they really picked the right takes, the other ones just didn't have the magic of the ones on the album.

some dude, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:55 (six years ago) link

i love the minutemen but i don't love television, as mentioned. tbh even though i love double nickels a lot, i don't think i've ever listened to it all the way through. it's 80 minutes! 40+ tracks! i tend to listen to it in chunks. that doesn't negate my love for it

marcos, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:55 (six years ago) link

i never thought television was meandering wankery. maybe it would be better if it was

marcos, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 17:55 (six years ago) link

i love tv but don't love the minutemen. i like them; they like boc so how could you not like them? i know what you mean, the mathiness, though. i think i love tv with the same genes that make me love yes.

Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:08 (six years ago) link

the bruford/ficca gene.

Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:08 (six years ago) link

that's kind of the root of my problem with the television album. i have based a large part of my existence on 70's riff rock (of all stripes) and that album is just low on my list as far as that goes. i love the two nerd bird riffs a bunch (which is why the roir blow up tape is the only thing i owned for years), but in comparison to the sheer volume and wealth of amazing 70's stuff i just found it...slighter than the stuff i love? (i always liked the composed and deliberate quality the album has though. fussy even. but in the end i'll take "city slang".)

scott seward, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:12 (six years ago) link

can you name a few albums we should be checking out?

markers, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:13 (six years ago) link

haha, i think that's all i've done on here for ten years. i definitely like VU via detroit via new jersey. wonder if the feelies were starz fans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3ADSvZRa0

scott seward, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:22 (six years ago) link

dunno, those riffs sound great to me. xgau isn't always otm, but i like this: "I don't ask much from life--a classic new rhythm guitar figure at medium-fast tempo like the one on "See No Evil" can keep me going for months. When the call-and-response chorus of the song that follows peaks at a perfectly timed "Huh?" I begin to act silly. And when two consecutive albums, eight songs each, offer a total of 16 unmistakable ident riffs, I apply hyperbole first and ask questions afterward."

tylerw, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:22 (six years ago) link

and i think it's doubtful the feelies were starz fans? i think you can tell pretty much what the feelies are fans of from the songs they've covered over the years.

tylerw, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:25 (six years ago) link

This thread inspired me to listen to Richard Lloyd's "Real Time" for the first time in years. I still really like it though it's not as good as Tom's solo stuff. I've never heard the studio versions of these songs, I assumed he was better live.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:26 (six years ago) link

Television are super hyped though.

waterbabies (waterface), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:27 (six years ago) link

Peopl freak out over them. They're "good" but not great

waterbabies (waterface), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:27 (six years ago) link

around the 1:48 mark and after on "detroit girls" is kinda what i live for. in life. my math skills aren't very advanced though.

scott seward, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:28 (six years ago) link

i really want to hear a starz cover by the feelies now.

scott seward, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:30 (six years ago) link

yeah it's always felt extremely composed to me, not jammy

i know what you mean. in my ears it sounds like a composed jam which makes things even worse. a jam without improvisation that's about the most tedious thing imaginable. maybe that is exactly what i don't like about it, it seems to be so calculated, so lifeless. additionally it doesn't seem to end. it's a kind of program music really.

it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:56 (six years ago) link

i once saw starz/rush/bob seger at the palladium. just sayin. after rush played this whole row of kids raised their arms and screamed "black sabbath!" and walked out on the silver bullet band.

i really like the painterly autumnal aspect of mm. it's like they're saying, hey, we're these sorta repressed aesthetes, we can't compete with the riff rockers, we'll just sit here with our legs crossed over our little jazz amps and build this here cathedral. on the one hand that's totally elitist so i can understand why the haters hate. on the other hand, unlike so many other repressed aesthetes, they did build the cathedral.

Thus Sang Freud, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 18:57 (six years ago) link

Once driving through Ohio a few years ago I heard "Marquee Moon" (the song) on an AM station. I love it anyway, but holy hell, hearing it on AM was like wandering into an alternate universe. I didn't think I could have a new perspective on a song I'd heard thousands of times at that point, but there it was.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:10 (six years ago) link

i can imagine the shimmery part around 8:20 (?) sounding totally sublime under those circumstances.

Mayor Manuel (La Lechera), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:21 (six years ago) link

Struggling to figure out what I want to say here. There's something unprecedented about their use of guitars. There are precedents in VU/2nd MC5 album/Modern Lovers, but it's never the focus like it is with Television. They always sound punk even in the midst of major pastoralism.

timellison, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:29 (six years ago) link

that part sounds like a burst of Fichelscher-era Popol Vuh to me (shimmery pastoral guitars, even if it's just for a tiny moment)

Mayor Manuel (La Lechera), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:32 (six years ago) link

but i hear what i want to hear, obvs, ha

Mayor Manuel (La Lechera), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:32 (six years ago) link

i can imagine the shimmery part around 8:20 (?) sounding totally sublime under those circumstances.

― Mayor Manuel (La Lechera), Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:21 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Indeed it did; and the pause between that and the drums' re-entrance was just, I mean, I think I was holding my breath.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:33 (six years ago) link

And punk in the best way. Like when it mattered for a band to show that you could work with the absolute basics. And that those basics were beautiful.

timellison, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:33 (six years ago) link

Have you read interview with Verlaine in that book, Feeding Back? Interesting stuff about his approach to guitar.

You Never Even POLL Me By My Screenname (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 19:44 (six years ago) link

No, would like to see that.

timellison, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 20:00 (six years ago) link

that whole book is good. verlaine's is far from the most forthcoming interview, but that's no surprise.

tylerw, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 20:01 (six years ago) link

Believe he says something to the effect that he took a big piece of paper in the shape of a guitar neck, wrote the names of the notes and pasted it on a wall, studied it and made up his own stuff based on that instead of playing the same chord voicings he might have gotten from somewhere else.

You Never Even POLL Me By My Screenname (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 20:04 (six years ago) link

(That was xp)
Tyler otm. Discussions are a good mix of guys talking about the creative inspirational side and the technical side. Sometimes you get one or you get the other or you get an oil and vinegar mix but here you really feel like they are talking about where the rubber meets the road.

You Never Even POLL Me By My Screenname (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 20:10 (six years ago) link

the urinalysis of fire (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 23:20 (six years ago) link

Sorry

the urinalysis of fire (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 23:20 (six years ago) link

. that part sounds like a burst of Fichelscher-era Popol Vuh to me (shimmery pastoral guitars, even if it's just for a tiny moment)

I always think of this part as a callback to the many moments of birdsong imitation in romantic music like Mahler Delius Wagner etc where the strings get all hushed and the woodwinds imitate birdies. But it does sound like Danny too!

the urinalysis of fire (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 23:23 (six years ago) link

They always sound punk even in the midst of major pastoralism.

That's ludicrous to me. The basics need to have a component of ugliness.

The boots I heard sound a lot better - a sound which is hinted at and not really captured on the LP.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 09:10 (six years ago) link

I don't know, maybe I shouldn't have said always. And maybe pastoralism isn't quite right either. I hear "Venus" and it sounds like a breakthrough, though. There's bite to the guitars and the whole thing is stark and skeletal.

timellison, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 18:17 (six years ago) link

Its true there is a bite at times...thinking about it, sorry I called it 'ludicrous'...more like er, interesting word choices...

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 9 April 2014 19:49 (six years ago) link

that part sounds like a burst of Fichelscher-era Popol Vuh to me (shimmery pastoral guitars, even if it's just for a tiny moment)

Meanwhile, the second half of "Du tränke mich mit Deinen Küssen" (on "Das Hohelied Salomos"), when the guitars start kicking in, always reminds me of Television.

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Thursday, 10 April 2014 11:50 (six years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.