slint -- _spiderland_: classic or dud

Not that I've listened to it in almost four years, though.

The vocals when they appear are bad, too.

I think Tom is wrong here. Or rather, I think he’s missing a whole lot of fun. To my ears this indie scene (from slint to Aerial M to the For Carnation to Palace Brothers plus zillions of other spin off projects) seems very strong - bands finding audiences for all sorts of projects, lots of cross-fertilisation, forward looking, the emphasis on cheap production tools. I like a lot of these bands, and even when I’m not so wild (Tortoise don’t do much for me if I’m honest) I respect what they’re about. Their influence has probably peaked but compared to the mess that was British indie well, that’s a whole other thread really.

Of slint’s very limited back catalogue I like the final EP (Glenn/Rhoda) best at the moment.

The scene as described - side-projects, cross-fertilisation, forward looking etc - is indeed *exactly* what a good scene 'ought' to be which is probably why I spent so much time c.94-97 trying to find stuff I liked in it. Apart from the occasionally superb Palace, little joy. The music from Slint on in has always seemed dry and uninvolving.

It's to do with my limits as a listener as much as anything: I'm not a musician and so can't technically appreciate a lot of what's going on, and I tend to listen to music for moments rather than flows (not exclusively cf. my interest in minimalism) - aside from the tape drop- out gag on "Djed" little of the post-Slint stuff has grabbed me on that basis.

The influence thing with Slint has become a bit of a joke, though. When prog-metal bands like Geiger Counter namecheck them, they're namechecking their preciousness and deliberate complexity. Isolate these things and they are no more than quixotic. Add them to rich and mysterious songs, and you've got a winner.

House at its best tends to give you moments plus current anyway - breakdowns, diva cries, emotional catharsis and the pulsebeat. "Your Love" (Frankie Knuckles) for instance with that looping keyboard pattern (current) and then Jamie Principle coming in with "I cant let go" (moment).

Some of the Chicago-ish stuff does balance those things. Smog's Red Apple Falls and "All Your Woman Things" have murderously repetitive guitar patterns - reminiscent of Arnold Dreyblatt in the attention paid to the droning string buzz - and then Callahan's lyrics provide the focal point. Similarly some of Jim O'Rourke's solo stuff has gorgeous pop moments - I forgot Bad Timing in my first post.

and there's something else to it at the root of my distaste for post- rock, something bigger, an emotional quality i have trouble articulating. in a weird way, despite its lesser attachment to pop song convention, the music strikes me as more "conventional" in a bad way on some level than the husker du or sonic youth that preceded it. i don't know how to put it any better right now. i'm still trying to figure it out since i really like a lot of classic postpunk and indie/alternative rock and even enjoyed a fair bit of emo and hardcore. i'm probably always harping on this but it's a sense of alienation from a culture and aesthetic tradition that i thought i could relate to at one point.

tom: never write yourself off as a listener because you're not a musician. musical technique is just a tool to create something worth listening to.

The album as a whole, though, I've never quite warmed to. A couple of other good moments (maybe "Breadcrumb Trail" if I'm remembering the title right) but not very consistant.

In a time where bands were either doing clones of early Butthole Surfers, still trying to be hardcore as fuk, trying to move to the Northwest, or trying to morph something new into the Husker Du model-- this record shows up. It just wasn't like anything else.

It is the only record from "1991" that I still find myself pulling out of the stacks.

basically they came out with a way of doing quiet/loud dynamics within the 'song' framework that is quite original. so classic for just that.

I will try and come up with more bcz I haven't heard in a long long time.

but side a ... nosferatu man is such a great song. i think it's the best song they ever wrote.

the "quiet/loud" dynamic thing is mentioned quite a bit but i don't understand why slint defines it. some of their songs are quiet, some are loud, a couple are both. many other bands in rock have done quiet/loud earlier and better.

I can only think of dead C but since the songs were kind of loose in the first place...gimme names.

The photo of the hand on the inside of Umber is over a cassette copy of Tweez.

to answer bob snoom's question: bitch magnet were contemporaries of slint, the bulk of their output (2 LPs, 2 EPs) was released (i bleieve) prior to the release of spiderland (at which time, sooyoung and lexi started seam).

As for Talk Talk, alas I still have never heard them. They are on a mental list of mine with groups like Seefeel, Bark Psychosis, Derutti Column, A Certain Ratio, The Sound, Kitchens of Distinction, Comsat Angels and other UK arty guitar groups I haven't heard, but would check out if I came across their records.

I've got a pretty good sized stash of lps/cds, but I am the first to admit, I haven't heard everything.

Around the same time I posted that comment, I really wasn't listening to that much guitar rock, especially from the 90s, that has changed in the past few months.

I don't know about the "shouty" parts being embarressing, at least for me part of the problem with much of the music of this type is that it never explodes, it kind of stays in one mood. I think in the lust for being taken "seriously" people banished the rock, which to me is a sad thing.

Beyond the dynamics of the music, the way that Slint arranged the guitars were was very lyrical and with quite a bit of harmonizing between the two players. I know that a couple of bands (Ativan & Pencil) playing from Bloomington in Spiderlands wake definitely built from the way the guitars were orchestrated.

Now I know you're insane, gygax!

Somewhere in my parents' house is a tape of the Diablo Guapo demos with Britt on drums.

The Shannon Doughton name is actually from someone Britt went to school with.

While you're at it, is Sooyoung up to anything these days?

Never saw this before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb46UMdmGqY

https://www.loumag.com/articledisplay.aspx?id=59820590

history of Louisville punk

After Skull of Glee, Steve Rigot played in In the Vines, Common Law Cabin and Women Who Love Candy, among other bands. He is an artist (painter) and lives in Southern Indiana.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/artsdesk/music/2010/04/26/it-was-a-suicide-mission-from-the-very-start-a-chat-with-the-endtables/

http://louisvillemusic.org/blog/2015/03/20/steve-chili-rigot-dies/

haha
http://i.imgur.com/Bl5i66N.png

http://imgur.com/gallery/X83MF

http://imgur.com/gallery/4Tvfr

I bet that last band photo is their first band, Languid and Flaccid. Not Todd Brashear on bass there - I think it's Ned Oldham but not positive.

yeah, last photo is Ned on the right. but the fifth does not depict Ned; the fourth does, as well as Craig Brown and Chris Hawpe, Ned's tightest buds at the time.

apart from the last photo, its all from a J. Graham Brown School yearbook, probably '81-'84.

Slint have finally sold out. pic.twitter.com/VRvIGmm76U

— Loud And Quiet (@LoudAndQuietMag) May 3, 2017

o m g

https://i.imgur.com/7ZWA34Y.jpg

Ahead of their time in so many ways

https://wwpilates.com/

thank you, that really hits the middle of a venn diagram of stuff my wife likes.

aw that's cool good for him

would exercise with todd

that's pretty cool

Love that he kept “wild and woolly”

2 lengthy interviews with/by Britt from a few months ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNs1GUWZefw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZKAN03mnhg

I listened to that in march… and… I was present for the birth of Slint, attending their second, third and fourth shows, and then one in lville a year before the release of Spiderland… I cannot properly express my pride that guys that were only a few years older than me could possibly create music that unique, and he in particular is unlike any drummer to have ever walked the earth… I was in lville for most of the past week, and the awe with which they are regarded there is palpable… and…

I gotta say that interview is exceptional for showing how unusually inarticulate he is about what he has done (and probably everything else, as each of the times I have interacted with him he has been like that) relative to the hundreds of musicians i have interviewed. He is all show, and can't figure out how to tell or is incapable of telling.

I like Spiderland but have literally not listened to it in years. And then today in the car my 16-year-old son plugs in his phone and puts on "Good Morning, Captain." He likes to play me stuff he's found, and to see if I know it. He is now apparently a big Slint fan. I think he got into it via his Microphones-inspired excavation of '90s indie. Anyway, 16-year-olds still getting excited over it nearly 30 years on says something for it.

That is so cool!

tipsy: did you recommend the documentary "Breadcrumb Trail" for your son?

No, and I haven't seen it either. Maybe we can watch it together.

I feel like seeing how young they were (and already most members were in their 3rd(+?) band) might be very motivating to someone of a similar age.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVdU_bLD2-M

Or you could read the book :)

There is an IG story on the Slint account that shows a screenshot of David, Todd, Britt, Brian on a Zoom call with Corey Rusk.

*thinking.emoji*

^^^They were reminiscing while eating Taco Bell mexican pizzas which are being removed from the TB menu, haha.

Spiderland turns 30 on Saturday 3/27/21. Long interview-piece that doesn't shed a tremendous amount of new light for people with this thread bookmarked at Rolling Stone if you're so inclined/bored:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/slint-spiderland-interview-1144942/

man, to me, a louisvillian who was witness to birth of this band but was way too intimidated by those guys to dare to speak to them at the time, this article is off the charts informative relative to, say, the grantland piece seven years ago. I'm super jealous of Shteamer, not just re: the amount of access and consisdration those guys granted him, but the fact that he seems to be able to do these wonky-ass deep dives for rolling goddamn Stone, an outlet not known to indulge in massive retrospectives on artists unknown or irrelevant to Jann Wenner or Joe Levy, for that matter. God bless Jason Fine!

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/ca/f6/4ecaf654d7f7f4adfd6c3e4acc4468c2.jpg

I watched Breadcrumb Trail last night. It's on YouTube.

I think this must be the only instance on the parents having a decisive effect on the music, in allowing those guys to rehearse what would become Spiderland in their basement.

Also not only are they bored of rock but they seem bored of that kind of post-hardcore scene by the time they made Spiderland. I realise how the vocals, which is the thing that immediately elevates this record, are as underehearsed as the music is so overehearsed -- akin to the making of Trout Mask Replica, that stuff sounds so together.

Remarkable how there's just no setup, no manager, no nothing. It's just these kids, Brian's parents, the odd person from Touch & Go, Steve Albini, and Will Oldham (the one person missing from the doc). But everybody is hands off.

And they are so young. You need to repeat that over and over again. Simultaneously the reason they sorta hadn't left home -- which allowed for acres of rehearsal and development of the music -- and the quality of the lyrics/singing goes into that. Explains the break-up too. Too young to make that kind of music. Brian felt the pressure with no setup to take it off.

I just found Brian's parents fascinating. Britt is just insane.

I was going to say it's an odd documentary but it's actually pretty generic - it's the content that's odd. Like you say, Britt is such an unusual character, profoundly introverted and seemingly unaware of his obvious talent. I had no idea that was him on the first Breeders album, for instance. I'd normally roll my eyes at yet another James Murphy talking head but he's instructive in that he can hardly articulate what it is about Britt that is so compelling and otherworldly.

Brian too, seems completely at odds with what he produces. The scene where his accident is discussed passes like a dream.

Quite a few that have Britt stories. Albini talking about the time Britt was house-sitting. Drew Daniel when they stayed over at his then place. Then the guy who talked about his erotic cakes.

Wish Kim Deal was in it too.

And yeah I just forgot about the accident. Kinda weird nobody had died.

It's hard to describe how exciting it was when they started playing shows in 86/87: the Louisville scene was in full flower, but it was hardcore hardcore, hardcore… the Misfits 100% ran that town, and when I heard that two guys from Maurice, one from Sq

It's hard to describe how exciting it was when they started playing shows in 86/87: the Louisville scene was in full flower, but it was hardcore hardcore, hardcore… the Misfits 100% ran that town, and when I heard that two guys from Maurice, one from Squirrel bait and one from Dot 39 (not well known anymore) of course you'd think it was gonna be the most merciless metal-punk to have ever existed… and then they play the Tweez shit at shows and the hardcore kids, despite individual claims to the contrary in decades later, were either bored or bewildered… myself and like five other kids, including a former ILX leading light, on the other hand were absolutely dumbstruck, in awe of what was unfolding (yeah, yeah I'm tooting my own horn here)…

and so then the Tweez shit in particular earns the Trout mask comparison…it is very very hard, maybe impossible to discern what stylistic templates they may have used… the only thing is that Pajo was well known as a technically accomplished player a shredder in fact… and it was clear to me that Walford was unlike any drummer to have ever walked the earth… by dint of the truly extraordinary preternatural, native ability of those two guys, they made music that has almost nothing to do with any previous shit ever… I would only say that Tweez is Pajo's, Spiderland is McMahon's, but its all Walford's. Spiderland more or less came to me like everyone else, although I they did a show in lville in 1990 where they played that material beofre the record was released (or possibly recorded).

said this before, but I was pants-shittingly intimidated by those guys, and when I encountered Walford in the 90s, each time among mutual friends he did not exactly have the interest or ability to set people at ease.

"and so then the Tweez shit in particular earns the Trout mask comparison…it is very very hard, maybe impossible to discern what stylistic templates they may have used"

Only say that bcz in both cases the band spent what seems like an enormous amount of time rehearsing before they got into the studio to record.

Trout Mask was a live album, only engineered (despite the produced by Frank Zappa). Similarly Spiderland was only engineered and as Paulson talked about there wasn't a lot of he needed to do.

t's hard to describe how exciting it was when they started playing shows in 86/87: the Louisville scene was in full flower, but it was hardcore hardcore, hardcore… the Misfits 100% ran that town, and when I heard that two guys from Maurice, one from Squirrel bait and one from Dot 39 (not well known anymore) of course you'd think it was gonna be the most merciless metal-punk to have ever existed… and then they play the Tweez shit at shows and the hardcore kids, despite individual claims to the contrary in decades later, were either bored or bewildered… myself and like five other kids, including a former ILX leading light, on the other hand were absolutely dumbstruck, in awe of what was unfolding (yeah, yeah I'm tooting my own horn here)…

When I wrote my 33 1/3 book about Spiderland, I really loved hearing Sean Garrison (aka Rat)'s perspective on those early days. Veronica I'm sure you already know this, but for everyone else on the board if the name's not recognizable - he was the singer for Maurice which was very much a metal band. He described to me this kind of slow-motion bewilderment/awe at what Pajo and Walford were doing. The last song Maurice wrote was a Slint song (I can't remember without looking it up but I think it was "Pat"), and Rat basically gave up - he couldn't figure out how to sing over the music they were making.

and so then the Tweez shit in particular earns the Trout mask comparison…it is very very hard, maybe impossible to discern what stylistic templates they may have used… the only thing is that Pajo was well known as a technically accomplished player a shredder in fact… and it was clear to me that Walford was unlike any drummer to have ever walked the earth… by dint of the truly extraordinary preternatural, native ability of those two guys, they made music that has almost nothing to do with any previous shit ever… I would only say that Tweez is Pajo's, Spiderland is McMahon's, but its all Walford's. Spiderland more or less came to me like everyone else, although I they did a show in lville in 1990 where they played that material beofre the record was released (or possibly recorded).

Agree, Tweez is Pajo/Walford, Spiderland is McMahon/Walford. Also, Tweez is high school and Spiderland is college--which feels very obvious in the lyrics if not the music itself. McMahon and Walford wrote a good chunk of the album while living in dorms at Northwestern, away from Pajo and Brashear. (The other two had influence on the songwriting too but not to the same degree.)

Thanks for your 33 1/3 book, I devoured that when I was 17. And great write up too Veronica

Thanks HP, I appreciate that.

awesome posts veronica and pgwp

So should I listen to this band for the first time

um yes

No save it till your in you’re 80’s, consuming all music post1960’s in existence beforehand so that you can properly appreciate britt’s drumming on good morning captain (all the talk of the documentary pales in comparison to the shots of a 16yo looking Britt playing the track in a crusty basement)

So very very glad David Pajo is still around and working after his sadly public suicide attempt. I couldn’t believe that Slint was where he started knowing him from Tortoise and Papa M first. What a career, spiderland to millions now living to Royal trux to zwan, while playing live with interpol, the yeah yeah yeahs and now hang of four. Is there any career in rock music that mirrors the broad + influential + not super well known (from my impression) he has?

Jim O'Rourke maybe? Pajo's Zwan bandmate Matt Sweeney is also kinda a rough analogue

This thread has been a great read, thanks all. And I have to read your 33 1/3 book, pgwp.

Thanks so much for the posts, yes. Veronica was so lucky to see them at that time. And for the impression to linger after all these years. We all hope to catch art at the highest levels while it's on the make and people aren't quite sure. People usually get to it when you are already told it's good by some.

"So very very glad David Pajo is still around and working after his sadly public suicide attempt."

Very sad about it when I saw this on his wiki yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7wh270Oc9c