what does "art-damaged" mean and is it good or bad?

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that's all i want to know

jack of diamonds, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

that's it

jack of diamonds, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

If you like "Art" it's good. If you dislike "artwank" then it's bad.

phil, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

got it. thanks.

jack, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

OK that covers the value judgment -- now how about the meaning?

Mark, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

"art damaged" does not necessariy equate with artwank. "artdamaged" usually means some musical genre fucked up by some music making unpopish in approach (i.e. going with ideas or sound for the sake of sound as opposed to optimizing listeners) -- the Fall are art damaged (garage rock and some pop forms screwed up by outside influences and aesthetics via Mr. Smith). Artwank would be more something like Merzbow or some English progressive music from the 70's.

Jack Cole, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Can we be both? I want to be both.

Keiko, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

There's a guy who posts here from time to time called Robin Carmody that seems to be a bit art wankish. Ask him about the term.

maria, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

How is calling merzbow artwank not a value judgement?

Andrew, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

keiko: you can both or you can be one of each.

andrew: Calling Merzbow an artwank is a value judgement. -- but also an example of art purely for the sake of art -- hence, my use of him as an example of artwankery.

Jack Cole, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I've always interpreted this to mean "damaged by art school"--i.e. overburdened by theory, unable to just "be natural" musically as it were.

M Matos, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

you could be right -- but I've always interpretted it as pop forms, be it rock or folk or whatever, damged by art school and art, etc. Then again, we might be just talking about the same thing.

Jack Cole, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I always took it to mean something both arty and damaged-sounding - the two not having any necessary connection between each other.

Josh, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

and that's mostly because when people actually use the term there doesn't seem to be any good reason that they're using it to mean these other things. they do sound like interesting things to hear though.

Josh, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

oh, and I should add that "art damaged" isnt necessarily a bad thing. Like anything it can great or terrible and in between. Bands that I think of as being art damaged are groups like the Electric Eels or any of the LAFMS "pop" groups like Monitor.

Jack Cole, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think Merzbow is art for art's sake. I haven't talked to him, but I think if you listen carefully to his music, it's very entertaining and enjoyable. It's not just like: "Whoa, this is cool because it's so extreme and artsy." But I'm having trouble of thinking of something that's art for art's sake. Maybe, John Cage.

A Nairn, Wednesday, 3 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Momus would be the "damaged by art school" type, then. Right?

maria, Thursday, 4 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

oh then maybe it wouldn't be an interesting thing to hear

Josh, Thursday, 4 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

not cage; cage = sound for sound's sake

mark s, Thursday, 4 July 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

we need an update

丫 power (dyao), Monday, 22 March 2010 10:57 (eleven years ago) link

this is such a bad phrase

nakhchivan, Monday, 22 March 2010 11:01 (eleven years ago) link

http://swifttaxi.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/mount-rushmore.jpg

Fetchboy, Monday, 22 March 2010 11:03 (eleven years ago) link

this thread is the first hit on google. hah!

丫 power (dyao), Monday, 22 March 2010 11:04 (eleven years ago) link

I used "art-damaged" to describe Su Tissue of The Suburban Lawns once, but my textbook example has got to be The Fibonaccis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFL1LGMUqu0

I turn it up when I hear the banjo (Dan Peterson), Monday, 22 March 2010 16:08 (eleven years ago) link

my favourite local garage punk band keep getting called art-damaged in writeups and facebook events or as a subheading on posters. i think it's because they usually let their guitars just feedback in between songs instead of turning away from their amps or turning off their distortion pedals.

samosa gibreel, Monday, 22 March 2010 16:30 (eleven years ago) link

xpost lol guess it all comes back to Manson. I always associated the term with No Wave pig-fuck NYC scuzz and came to post my
Art-Damaged 101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a-V0Iwml3c

that new wave hippie disco shit (herb albert), Monday, 22 March 2010 17:04 (eleven years ago) link

ten years pass...

this thread is the first hit on google. hah!

Haha. I too just put (essentially) this question to Google 10 years later, and well, here I am. I've seen it in old reviews, mostly American ones, it seems. Any further insights, people?

Nag! Nag! Nag!, Friday, 23 October 2020 13:25 (eight months ago) link

Hah, I'd completely forgotten about this phrase. If memory serves, it was often used to describe post-punk acts.

pomenitul, Friday, 23 October 2020 13:45 (eight months ago) link

I see it being used to describe groups like Dirty Projectors circa 2010:

https://www.google.com/search?q=dirty+projectors+%22art+damaged%22&oq=dirty+projectors+%22art+damaged%22

o. nate, Friday, 23 October 2020 15:27 (eight months ago) link

Christgau used the term to refer to Flipper and The Knife, both of whom he liked. I think it's generally used to denote musicians working in populist or "street-level" genres who have taken a left-turn into art rock. As opposed to The Moody Blues or other groups who are seen as prioritizing the art before the rock.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 23 October 2020 15:32 (eight months ago) link

My totally unfounded, apocryphal theory is that it was coined to describe Black Flag.

pomenitul, Friday, 23 October 2020 15:34 (eight months ago) link

seven months pass...

I used "art-damaged" to describe Su Tissue of The Suburban Lawns once, but my textbook example has got to be The Fibonaccis:

There are enough random posts on diverse threads from me about how much I adore The Fibonaccis, but here at last is new reason to bestir myself: I noticed yesterday with an eruption of joy that they have begun rereleasing their stuff for streaming + bandcamp! The core discography of the s/t EP, Tumor 7”, and dizzying Civilization And Its Discotheques LP are all up. Hell to the fuck yes!!!

http://fibonaccis.com

covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 13:45 (two weeks ago) link

Start with “Somnambulist”, “Maculae”, “Tumor”, “Had It With Girls”, “Crickets” (setting Emily Dickinson), “Leroy” (setting The Bad Seed”), and “Some Men” IMO

covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 13:50 (two weeks ago) link

Whoa, this is very up my alley. I hear lots of Slapp Happy/Art Bears influence.

emil.y, Tuesday, 8 June 2021 17:58 (two weeks ago) link

Real Juliette Lewis in Meet the Hollowheads vibe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9QZ2SxeM9s

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 18:20 (two weeks ago) link

yeah i have always considered them to stalk the same turf as art bears (about as far up my alley as you can get) and in the remembrance by dentino on their website now I was delighted to see the AB specifically mentioned.

also delighted to see in the press clippings that they played a show with Pylon in 1982, what a perfect bill

covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 18:24 (two weeks ago) link

Art Damaged Bears

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 20:11 (two weeks ago) link

I guess art damaged makes me think of Pere Ubu

me too. also the pop group.

Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 20:53 (two weeks ago) link

yeah that's a good one too

I saw this band from Indiana once, Dancing Cigarettes. (M@tt, it was after the Longhorn had changed to Zoogie's.) Art damaged AF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKxRE2PjHsw

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 21:11 (two weeks ago) link

oh that's great, never heard of them....i watched the longhorn documentary on amazon prime - was really cool! i'd always heard of those days but not as much detail on the whole story. also just nice to see things about mpls punk that don't revolve entirely around replacements and husker du (don't know if you saw the MN hardcore doc series on public TV but that was great as well)

Yes, the Longhorn doc is incredible. I went to the premiere, and the reunion concert that accompanied it. I did see the hardcore doc, that was cool as well (although I wasn't nearly as much a part of that scene.)

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 21:22 (two weeks ago) link

really enjoyed the longhorn, so many great photos

it was definitely a different focus but it was cool to a narrative that (maybe if you're lucky) mentions the Commandos and Suburbs in passing then goes on to Mats vs Huskers and then punk rock ceased to exist

History is written by (and about) the winners, so the focus is on the bands that made it big, but early on it was so cool that we had bands playing power pop, retro-60s Nuggets garage rock, rockabilly, surf, and assorted weirdness... anything went, as long as it wasn't trying to sound mainstream.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 21:40 (two weeks ago) link

yeah that reminded me a bit of the stuff i've read about the pre-hardcore/black flag L.A. punk scene too

if i wanted to challops i'd say suicide commandos "make a record" is the best minneapolis rock record over HD and mats haha, not sure i believe that but it's a good opinion

It totally is as far as I'm concerned! It's as important (or more) to me as the first Ramones, I think there's more stylistic variation in the songwriting and cleverness in the lyrics. Sorry Ma is up there for me, I saw I think the Mats' second show they ever did because of the early Oarfolk buzz about them, and was floored. That's an album full of incredible hooks.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 8 June 2021 21:55 (two weeks ago) link


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