Genesis Live

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3 things: (i)Is there another album as totally fantastic as this one? (ii)Don't the audience like "The Musical Box"? (iii)Are there any other albums people can listen to 3 times in one day? As in, time to listen to 5 albums, and you pick the same one for the first three?

Anna Rose, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

that's what I do with most of the albums I like

some that I don't like too

Josh, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Diminishing returns theory - usually I play it once, then again with some of the tracks programmed out, then just maybe 4 or 5 tracks on continuous random play for a while

dave q, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

See, I luv prog but I Don't Know about Genesis. Firstly, Pink Floyd did a better job of camouflaging their less-than-amazing chops by working on the textures and FX etc. whereas Genesis just seemed like they wanted to be Yes but weren't as good. (Everyone knows Banks was no Emerson, but even Rick Wright was better.) Secondly, I usually have no time whatever for that 'middle-class public schoolboy' accusation that only Brits are confused enough to care about, but Genesis is the only band whose cosy brand of cluelessness actually irritates me. Thirdly, Peter Gabriel's voice is a prissy version of Perry (equally clueless but at least shameless about it) Farrell's

dave q, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I really, really tried to like Gabriel-era Genesis. I do like Peter Gabriel's solo stuff (not as much as I used to, but still). But, for the most part, I just can't stomach his Genesis stuff. Except for "I Know What I Like In Your Wardrobe" (which is really just a nice pop- song mildly seasoned with prog) and "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" (and that only for the opening piano solo). To my ears, Gabriel-era Genesis is only interesting because of their heretofore-impossible combination of tweeness and bombast and po' faced earnestness, and also sounds really really cheesy in a way no other prog band sounds (even by early-Seventies standards). Like trying to perform a piano sonata on a cheap Casio synth.

At least some of the Phil Collins-era stuff worked on an earcandy/stadium rock level.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

My favourite thing about the album is that, for the most part, the songs are played so much better than on the original three albums. Phil Collins, say what you will about his solo career, was/is a fantastic drummer that elevates the material. Unfortunately, his work on Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot was restrained and poorly mixed. He didn't play on Trespass; after listening to "The Knife" from "Live", the original is practically unlistenable because the drumming is so poor.

Genesis in the early '70s may have seemed like the poor cousins of Yes and ELP to some degree, but I think that has more to do with being an indie band with no recording budget: their first three records suffer sonically. On the other hand, unlike Yes and ELP, Genesis didn't fall into the solo-wanking for wank's sake trap. Hackett, Banks and Rutherford were songwriters first, not virtuoso soloists to the same degree of Howe, Wakeman, Emerson et al. Taste over technique is not necessarily a bad thing.

Matt MacInnis, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

'Taste over technique is not necessarily a bad thing'

Are you aware of why people listen to prog in the first place? Prog without self-indulgent soloing = Asia! In fact, I wish somebody would issue an ELP compilation with kybd and drum solos ONLY, no songs please!

dave q, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Not that I mind their songs, of course! (To illuminate my earlier coment re cosy cluelessness - PF wrote (bad) lyrics re war and insanity, ELP wrote (funny) lyrics about armadillos and blowjobs - and Genesis did stilted, trivial lyrics about weeds and snowmen! Enough said!)

dave q, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I guess you could say there are some prog bands I like a lot but I'm not necessarily a fan of prog-rock as a genre.

Who was it that said (paraphrasing) progressive rock was a rebellion against three-minute songs about love by writing twelve-minute songs about nothing?

Matt, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Everyone knows Banks was no Emerson, but even Rick Wright was better.

Surely this is a joke?

Joe, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Genesis was the most purposefully restrained out of the three (Yes, ELP, Genesis). I think of it as a continuum: 'larger-than-life', virtuosic abandon (the most popular example being ELP) <----> emphasis on form downplaying virtuosity (the most popular example being Pink Floyd).

Or as Edward Macan put it, "If ELP were the Richard Wagner of progressive rock, Genesis were the movement's Mozarts".

Joe, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

The only song by Genesis I rilly got into was "Carrot Rope".

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh come off it Dave q, my covers band plays "Breathe/time" & "Shine on you Crazy Diamond" by Pink Floyd, and "I know What I Like" and "The Lamia" by Genesis. Tony Banx skillz0rz are way higher that Rick "let's see just how long we can hold that Gmin chord for" Wright. I really like the first few Genesis albums, precicely because the shitty production & rough playing gives it a really edgy sound. Genesis were playing at the very edges of their abilities JUST LIKE THE STOOGES and (IMO) that's almost always a good sound. I really like "Genesis Live", for the reasons noted above (gnarly sound etc) but I haven't actually got a copy right now. I always wondered if that was a whole gig, or is there more of it unreleased somewhere?

Norman Phay, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Genesis Live was recorded on February 24th (Free Trade Hall, Manchester) and 25th (De Montford Hall, Leicester), 1973. There's probably some additional material floating out there from those gigs. Disc 3 of their first boxset has additional material from later that same year (October) from the Rainbow Theatre...

Joe, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Sterling that was brilliant.

John Darnielle, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I have loved Genesis Live for each and everyone of the 27 or so years I have owned it. To Answer 'Anna' s question in reverse order.

iii No You can listen to this one again and again. I don't actualy like England or Lamb Lies Down much. Tresspass is mainly poorly recorded and the songs week. The studio versions of Nursery and Foxtrot both have weak tracks where Genesis go all mideval and dull.

ii Are there other albums that bear sequential play? Well many prog albums,esp ones by Yes, ELP and Pink Floyd need to be listened to in context, with the listener willing to engage (and even welcome) the stereotypical Progisms and I dont always do this. Fragile and Relayer are fine albums, but I wouldn't think they can suit all moods. Topographic Oceans can't, maybe Close to the Edge can. The first three VDGG albums (pawn, least, h to he) are pretty close to Genesis anyway, the three mid 70s KC albums (larks, starless, red) can (obv). I can do this with Hawkwind's DoRemi FaSo LaTido - but that may be just me.

Outwith Progrock (but still in modern popular idiom) Only really Closer (but not Unknown Pleasures) can bear whatever the mood listening - its no comment on how good they are.

i I think there are lots of albums as fantastic as this, from all sorts of genres. Its the lack of some of Progs worst excesses that makes Live special. There is a widely available bootleg video of 74 era Genesis live (ie slightly but not much later) which really brings home how out of the loop they were (The albums were minor hits only). Somebody above says "DIY" and thats spot on.

Alexander Blair, Thursday, 27 June 2002 00:00 (nineteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

Got an advance of the forthcoming Live 1973-2007 Rhino box in today's mail. It includes the 1973 Live album, as well as Live at the Rainbow, also from 1973 and with two previously unreleased tracks ("Cinema Show" and "The Battle of Epping Forest"), five tracks from L.A. circa 1975, Seconds Out, Three Sides Live and The Way We Walk.

neither good nor bad, just a kid like you (unperson), Saturday, 29 August 2009 18:32 (twelve years ago) link

that set is a bewildering fuck off considering they didn't put on Suppers Ready that was cut from Live, and included crap from the archive box they already released.

akm, Saturday, 29 August 2009 19:54 (twelve years ago) link

If it is any consolation, "the crap from the archive box" has fewer Gabriel overdubs this time around.

Gabble Ratchet, Sunday, 30 August 2009 01:47 (twelve years ago) link

We need a v-chip on here that edits out every time I moan about "Epping Forest".

a blight on pop that ruined British indie for several decades (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 30 August 2009 01:49 (twelve years ago) link

those didn't bother me that much, it's just lame that they have better stuff, in great quality, that they didn't put on here. why?

akm, Sunday, 30 August 2009 15:34 (twelve years ago) link

for instance: what's known as "musica", a show from the Duke tour that they have in soundboard quality. sure you can get it in unofficial circles but if you're compliling your live stuff, just put it on there! They finally located the masters for Genesis Live and skipped Suppers Ready, a track whose intended inclusion on this album was all hushed up for a long time until test pressings with it on there appeared? It's not the best version ofthe song but they may as well put it out.

akm, Sunday, 30 August 2009 15:54 (twelve years ago) link

Genesis were fantastic back then, but I don't care about live albums at all.

Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 30 August 2009 20:59 (twelve years ago) link

I don't care about live albums at all.

Not even Seconds Out? More than any other album, that represents to me the essence of Genesis. Exclude that from your take on Genesis and you've got a very incomplete picture indeed.

anagram, Sunday, 30 August 2009 21:04 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, I'm a little thrown by that. Three Sides Live is pretty weak, and I loathe the studio albums post-Genesis (and all but two or three songs from that one), but I listen to Genesis Live more than any of the contemporaneous studio discs.

neither good nor bad, just a kid like you (unperson), Sunday, 30 August 2009 21:50 (twelve years ago) link

two years pass...

The drumming on the live "Musical Box." The cymbal shit is next level.

SongOfSam, Sunday, 8 April 2012 21:18 (nine years ago) link

unaccompanied bass pedal solo imo

Morrissey & Clunes: The Severed Alliance (PaulTMA), Monday, 9 April 2012 21:30 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FBcz3tBH74

Musically it's great, but I wish I hadn't looked this up & seen Peter Gabriel in Genesis now :-/

StanM, Friday, 18 October 2013 18:34 (eight years ago) link

one month passes...

Some of you are going to die ;_;

StanM, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 19:08 (seven years ago) link

What IS it with this album? Tried to get into the studio albums but completely failed to - dated and pretentious, bah. But this, this mesmerising masterpiece, I can listen to this once or twice a day for weeks on end (even during new Burial EP or Arcade Fire times).

StanM, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 19:21 (seven years ago) link

listening to Seconds Out now - this is probably my favorite of their live records. perhaps heresy but I love Phil Collins taking on "Suppers Ready"!!

frogbs, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 02:56 (seven years ago) link

So do I. That was the album and song that made me a Genesis freak.

jmm, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 03:01 (seven years ago) link

I still like that version more than the ones on Foxtrot and Genesis Archive. Phil's smoothness fits the song better than Gabriel's bark.

jmm, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 03:09 (seven years ago) link

yeah - I just wrote a bit on Wind & Wuthering here in which I kinda realize that Phil wasn't really a downgrade
http://critterjams.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/genesis-wind-and-wuthering-1976/

the incredible second half of "Cinema Show" is also ace

frogbs, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 05:29 (seven years ago) link

Great piece. It's impressive that in 1976, they could still make a record as totally confident and casual as Wind & Wuthering. There's not a trace of strain over the prog-rock crisis on that album.

jmm, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 15:55 (seven years ago) link

Phil I see as being a lateral move. Somehow I don't think that he could pull off "The Battle of Epping Forest" (not sure if he ever attempted it).

jmm, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 16:06 (seven years ago) link

during my brief all-prog phase in high school I ran with a crowd that considered no-Gabriel era The Beginning Of The End - really enjoyed reading a clear-eyed take on Wind and Wuthering even if every time I try to revisit Genesis I feel like my departure from them was permanent and I can't ever really get back inside

combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 18 December 2013 16:38 (seven years ago) link

That "Daddy, you promised!" bit sours me on the album every time.

They did "White Mountain" on the '76 tour. Phil's thin melodic voice made it sound especially silly — there was some combination of Gabriel's rasp and his aura of lunacy that made the words he sang seem almost meaningful.

SongOfSam, Wednesday, 18 December 2013 16:41 (seven years ago) link

Somehow I don't think that he could pull off "The Battle of Epping Forest" (not sure if he ever attempted it).

I don't think he did and you're probably right, but I would've said that about "Supper's Ready" too. Never heard the '76 band do "White Mountain", but that's kind of a ridiculous song anyway, isn't it?

Re-listening to some of this I'm astounded by how much of both W&W and Spot the Pigeon draw off the second disc of The Lamb, in particular the bits that I was always bored by. I wonder if they would've included any of that stuff had the storyline not been so long.

frogbs, Thursday, 19 December 2013 16:14 (seven years ago) link

"All in a Mouse's Night" a bit of a let-down on W&W, "Epping Forest" no great loss in any situation. kinda feel like if they'd made a W&W a couple of years later it wd've been perfect

the five people you meet in Hedon (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 19 December 2013 16:19 (seven years ago) link

the gloss and distance they're on the way to acquiring on W&W might as well be a different band to the sludgey doom of Genesis Live tho

the five people you meet in Hedon (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 19 December 2013 16:22 (seven years ago) link

"All in a Mouse's Night" was my favorite song on it the first time I listened to it. That's the one that everyone seems to say would work better with Peter but I love the way Phil sings the main melody line ("come on baby, let the poor thing go"). Also the story itself isn't very interesting. My main point through all that is that even if Peter does some pretty amazing things (especially on The Lamb) I feel like Phil serves the actual songs a bit better. W&W having three instrumental tracks really says a lot about the direction the band was going (and pulled back on)

frogbs, Thursday, 19 December 2013 17:38 (seven years ago) link

W&W is mainly let down by cloudy mix and production (the only case where I think the remix/remasters bettered the original), always felt like there was a veil over the music or a blanket on the speakers. The second side of the album is tremendous.

akm, Monday, 23 December 2013 14:56 (seven years ago) link

That Ylvis song is basically just a Genesis rip-off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tYyqf0KJWY

jmm, Monday, 23 December 2013 16:58 (seven years ago) link

Could be bullshit but I heard a radio DJ last week say that Collins and Gabriel are in talks for a real Genesis reunion...

Nate Carson, Thursday, 26 December 2013 22:48 (seven years ago) link

They're always in talks. Genesis may be the only huge act constantly breaking up and reuniting where every member old and new is still friends.

I thought Phil could not play drums?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 December 2013 22:53 (seven years ago) link

I have heard Phil can't drum from a whole bunch of people. Didn't know Genesis were all still friends though, doesn't Gabriel routinely refuse to sign off on reissue extras & stuff?

combination hair (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 26 December 2013 22:55 (seven years ago) link

Money talks.

Nate Carson, Thursday, 26 December 2013 23:56 (seven years ago) link

Gabriel recently acknowledged recently that them all being still alive might be good reason to consider playing together once more

PaulTMA, Friday, 27 December 2013 00:54 (seven years ago) link

collins recently returned to drumming.

akm, Friday, 27 December 2013 01:11 (seven years ago) link

the unofficial visual remasters of this material keep getting better and better

akm, Saturday, 17 July 2021 17:19 (three months ago) link

I've probably linked it before here but this guy is doing amazing restoration work on prog and art-rock films, things that are otherwise unavailable in this quality (he has an amazing restoration of Laurie Anderson's Home of the Brave, which still hasn't gotten an official HD release) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC7-qQFdlTO

akm, Saturday, 17 July 2021 17:22 (three months ago) link

well that didn't work. But the account name is BillFilm; search for BillFilm Genesis and all of that will come up.

akm, Saturday, 17 July 2021 17:23 (three months ago) link

MaresN3st's link (3 Months ago, April 15, scroll up a bit) has some technical information

StanM, Saturday, 17 July 2021 18:22 (three months ago) link

BillFilm says he has overdone the noise reduction on the Shepperton '73 footage and I agree:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCDm2KQL45o

vs the original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZPzeJnuI-A

StanM, Saturday, 17 July 2021 18:28 (three months ago) link

Overdone the compression/multi-band limiting too by the sounds of it.

Maresn3st, Saturday, 17 July 2021 22:05 (three months ago) link

The drums sound amazing and the picture is really crisp in that 1973 Paris clip. I kind of wonder if Steve Hackett slept with a cameraman's girlfriend or something, though.

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Monday, 19 July 2021 14:27 (three months ago) link

two months pass...

Setlist from reunion tour first show

Duke’s End / Turn It On Again
Mama
Land of Confusion
Fading Lights / The Cinema Show / Afterglow (“Fading Lights” performed live since 1992)
That’s All / The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway / Follow You Follow Me (First time “That’s All” performed live since 1998)
Duchess (First time performed live since 1981)
No Son of Mine
Firth of Fifth / I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)
Domino
Throwing It All Away
Tonight, Tonight, Tonight / Invisible Touch

Encore:
I Can’t Dance
Dancing With the Moonlit Knight / The Carpet Crawlers (First time “Dancing With the Moonlit Knight” performed live since 1998)

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Monday, 20 September 2021 23:59 (one month ago) link

Banks told the BBC that it didn’t make sense to bring Gabriel back because “most of the songs people know” came after his departure. However, he did stress that “We love Peter.”

lol

jmm, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:07 (one month ago) link

we're gonna do a song that everybody knows
not some acid shit bout moonlit knights and dominoes

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:10 (one month ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxYhI9Baq3U

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:19 (one month ago) link

jesus...

Phil sounds fucking TERRIBLE

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:22 (one month ago) link

flat all over the place, zero power, having background singers cover everything that's above middle C practically

then again, I ordered one of his pay per view specials in 1997 and even THEN I thought he sounded bad.

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:24 (one month ago) link

I thought he sounded a lot better than I expected, but no, not that good. It's just so sad. Totally unnecessary, almost a parody of the nursing home/rocker jokes people made when folks like this were merely in their '50s.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:25 (one month ago) link

yeah I mean it feels like he's somewhere else. I get why. dude's in chronic pain and aging.

but lord, paying those prices to see that.

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:26 (one month ago) link

I hope that he legitimately wants to be doing it.

jmm, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:37 (one month ago) link

I find it hard to imagine legitimately wanting to play "I Can't Dance" but that's just me

Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:40 (one month ago) link

it's gonna sound like a doom metal song now probably

you had me at "giallo" (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 00:42 (one month ago) link

Fun fact: Ray Wilson is also on tour this fall, and he sounds about 100x better than Phil in 2021. Here's his version.
Pretty glad I didn't spring for tickets... it's hard to imagine coming away from this show feeling good about it.

enochroot, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 01:12 (one month ago) link

Jeez, Phil’s seven years younger than Daltrey, but sounds way older. Granted, their approaches are pretty different, but Phil sounds like he didn’t make any effort to keep his voice in shape at all.

Is Phil playing drums at all on these shows?

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 01:34 (one month ago) link

That's not great, but at least he's actually singing, unlike Roger Waters at the show I saw.

Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 01:46 (one month ago) link

xpost Nope, Phil apparently can't even hold a drum stick. He reportedly remains seated the entire show. A review I read mentioned diabetes was among his many ailments, too. That was the first I'd read that, I think.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 03:10 (one month ago) link

Jeez, Phil’s seven years younger than Daltrey, but sounds way older.

FWIW, I thought Daltrey's singing had been shakey for quite some time now, but he was surprisingly good on their 2019 album. I think someone here said he sounded better there than on any live or studio recording they've issued since Face Dances, and they're probably right. It's no masterpiece, but throw out "Beads" and "I'll Be Back" and miraculously it's actually a very good Who album.

birdistheword, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 03:17 (one month ago) link

I love Genesis, and there's no way in hell I would want to see any show on this tour, but Duchess is such a jam

all the autotune on that last Who album probably helped him a bit

Hmmmmm (jamiesummerz), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 08:36 (one month ago) link

Ironically enough Steve Hackett is currently touring his Genesis Revisited show around the UK as well. Could be interesting if the four of them were to bump into each other.

joni mitchell jarre (anagram), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 09:00 (one month ago) link

And a look at their respective tour dates shows that they are both playing in Manchester next Friday.

joni mitchell jarre (anagram), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 09:03 (one month ago) link

I'd seen a bunch of clips of Daltrey sounding pretty rough, but then he supposedly got surgery on his throat (for nodes or something). Weirdly enough, I got to see Roger Daltrey solo before I ever got to see the Who. It was after the surgery, in a small club, and he sounded *great*, and was super talkative, too. I think he was sort of testing the waters, warming up. When I finally saw the Who (after I'd seen *Pete* solo, too, possibly making me the only person in the world that had seen both Pete and Roger solo but *not* the Who), doing "Quadrophenia," Roger still sounded pretty great.

When I last saw Genesis (which will remain the last time I saw Genesis), Phil sounded good (and was playing drums, too). Heck, the last time I saw him solo he sounded good as well. But the last several years have been very very bad to him. He looks bad, he sounds bad. I'm in a way impressed he's got the physical *and* mental strength to go through with this at all; he doesn't need the money. On his most recent solo tour, a couple of years back (which I did not see) I understood it to be something of a limited experiment, to see if he could pull it off, and iirc it was something of a struggle for him and his team. This tour is much more extensive, with lots of consecutive nights. I hope he pulls it off, for his sake, but I don't feel comfortable being a part of this particular experiment.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 12:19 (one month ago) link

There’s a lot of miming and fakery these days so when I hear people sound ‘bad’ I think ‘well at least they’re really singing’.

piscesx, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 13:41 (one month ago) link

And for sure, even Daltrey has some pre-recorded screams in the mix.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 13:43 (one month ago) link

A review I read mentioned diabetes was among his many ailments, too.

Insert Wilford Brimley diabeetus meme here

Richard Marxist (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 13:43 (one month ago) link

guess I'll be the person to say that these videos were much better than I expected. I do hope they come to the west coast but Phil's recent comments that this wouldn't go on past 2021 don't give me much hope for that.

akm, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 14:46 (one month ago) link

yeah when singers lose their voice it happens pretty fast; Greg Lake for instance sounded pretty good on the Emerson, Lake, and Powell album (even if his voice deepened considerably), 6 years later on Black Moon he sounded horrible. I did read a good article about the injuries singers do to their voice when they don't sing properly (which I assume almost none of the rock singers of the 60s and 70s did) and yeah that surgery seems to help things considerably. So when you see someone like Todd Rundgren, who sounds almost as good now as he did back then, you wonder if they got it done, much like you wonder about any 60+ actor with a full head of hair

Gordon Lightfoot comes to mind - if you listen to his post-Edmund Fitzgerald albums chronologically (which I don't recommend you do) you can pretty much hear exactly when it started. his voice was completely shot by the age of 55 but he's still played like 30 years of shows after that. I've seen a few (he sure loves touring around Wisconsin) and it's a little sad to see...he looks fine for his age but he's skeletal and frail, far from the rugged woodsman he portrayed in his heyday, and his voice has lost all its richness and depth. fwiw Phil Collins doesn't sound that bad...you can hear that old man quiver when he tries to hold a note and I'd be nervous to watch a full show of this, but I've seen worse. seeing him up there looking like Mr. Magoo is pretty depressing though. this whole tour seems like a big mistake but hey, at least the band sounds alright

frogbs, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 15:06 (one month ago) link

The tour's obvs been delayed a bunch, I wonder if he was in better shape when it was originally booked, and now they're on the hook for £££s if he were to cancel. We can all say "He doesn't need the money" but I wouldn't be surprised if he's been a bit shitty with his cash, for example the three divorces and getting lamped by the fake Alamo gear salesman.

I figured Phil might not be playing drums, but wondered if there was maybe some token almost-drum-solo or drum duo moment in the shows. Evidently not.

Daltrey was pretty hit-or-miss on the '06 through roughly '09 Who tours (a couple of shows were stopped one or two songs in when it was obvious he had no voice), but as JiC noted, his throat surgery made a massive difference. Yes, there's some autotune on WHO -- I can think of two tracks off the top of my head where it's obvious (three if you count one of the Pete bonus tracks) -- but there's a live "bonus" CD of an early 2020 acoustic show where he sounds as good as he's sounded since 1978. There were two pre-taped screams on the '15-'19 Who tours, in "Love, Reign O'er Me" and "Won't Get Fooled Again." I think that's acceptable: for one thing, he was doing those screams live through 2012 or so, and for another, the guy's in his mid '70s, and can't reasonably be expected to do those screams every night. Or any night.

But Daltrey always took exceptional care of his voice, and never took it for granted. Hell, in the '70s he was so intent on getting enough sleep after every show that he got addicted to Mandrax.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 21 September 2021 15:17 (one month ago) link

I was listening to Springsteen's Passaic '78 show the other night, when he was on the cusp of 30, and I marveled (as he must) at all of the extra singing, screaming, grunting, just making *sounds* he does, just to make things that much more exciting. It's amazing that guy, now on the cusp of 72, still sounds at all like he does, even if he (and no one else?) will never again sound like he did.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 15:28 (one month ago) link

I assume singers of this vintage who've (mostly) maintained their voice have been doing serious vocal calisthenics, mainlining lemon-ginger tea etc. the way Tom Brady or Lebron use personal trainers year-round to stay limber.

dinnerboat, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 15:39 (one month ago) link

jeez - tickets for this tour are ridiculously expensive too

StanM, Tuesday, 21 September 2021 15:56 (one month ago) link

i still hope they add west coast US dates :(

DT, Wednesday, 22 September 2021 07:36 (one month ago) link

Currently listening to a boot of the second night and hooo boy, it's a tough listen. PC has this unpleasant tonality to his voice now. Plus the kays are lowered in some songs, TIOA is in G now and it sounds sluggish.

Maresn3st, Friday, 24 September 2021 20:36 (one month ago) link

"Mama" basically sounds like 'Old Man River' now, from the vid I saw. like it was already lowered a few steps 13 years ago, now it's almost unrecognizable.

and he does have a weird, elfish nasal quality to his voice, which I suspect is because he's having trouble generating enough energy to produce proper tone.

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Friday, 24 September 2021 20:40 (one month ago) link

All he needs now is a Slipperman costume.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 24 September 2021 20:48 (one month ago) link

The saddest thing about the clips I've seen is Phil swiveling around on his chair, like any of us might do absentmindedly while toiling away at a desk.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 24 September 2021 21:47 (one month ago) link

xpost More like bedroom slippers, right?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 24 September 2021 21:48 (one month ago) link

Other than looking like he's slowly collapsing which isn't his fault in the main, you'd think someone would say 'Hey Phil, perhaps have a shave when you go out in front of the many thousands of people who are paying £130+ to see you', he looks like absolute shit. The whole thing is shabby.

Maresn3st, Friday, 24 September 2021 21:52 (one month ago) link

AH can't dance
AH can't shit
Only thing about me is the way I sit

Habemus poptimism (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 24 September 2021 21:53 (one month ago) link

I cross-referenced this thread with the Genesis subreddit and thankfully that one's a bit more cheery.

DT, Saturday, 25 September 2021 07:29 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

The final four UK tour dates have (inevitably) been postponed after a couple of (unidentified) band members tested positive for Covid.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 9 October 2021 23:18 (two weeks ago) link

They were invisibly touched

Gardyloominati (Neanderthal), Saturday, 9 October 2021 23:27 (two weeks ago) link

lol

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 9 October 2021 23:29 (two weeks ago) link


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