The American Smiths

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
I may have already asked this question, i can't remember.

i think of Guns'n'Roses as the American version of The Smiths, but i can't really identify why? it doesn't work in reverse either, the smiths are not the english g'n'r. so, can anyone elaborate on why this might be?

gareth, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

You don't think much of America, do you?

Mark, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the american version of the smiths is snuffy smith.

danielgamesh, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Back in the day REM were frequently called the 'American Smiths'. No, really.

stevo, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Nowadays the American Smiths are Weezer.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i think REM are the American Smiths. i know people who hated the Smiths hated REM for the same reasons, the whining,the jangling guitar, the moaning singing, on the other hand I loved the Smiths but I could not stand Stipe et al, so I think the comparison comes from ppl who hate both bands.

Last week I played Kill Uncle at the ofice where it was softly playing in the background and I was asked 5 times: these are REM aren't they? NO FUCK OFF!!! (OK Kill Uncle is Morrissey at his worst maybe but that does not mean you can mistake it for that awful artyfarty pretentious crap)

VOYAGER is not PET SHop boys, it's MOMUS, you morons!! (who?)

erik from holland, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

The Go betweens. Or........The Smiths.

Kris England, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I think discussion on this thread handily establishes the Smiths/REM equivalency, or anyway did for me due to grueling agonizing over which I actually liked better at the time.

Also note that this comparison doesn't necessarily posit "Smiths" = "REM" but rather "Smiths' career" = "REM from Murmur through Document," to keep the time frames proper. Could a case possibly be made for REM post-Document equating to Moz solo? Bona Drag = Out of Time, Kill Uncle = Automatic for the People, Your Arsenal = Monster?

nabisco%%, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Gareth sez: I may have already asked this question, i can't remember. i think of Guns'n'Roses as the American version of The Smiths [...but...] the smiths are not the english g'n'r.
So who is the British G'n'R?
Stevo sez: Back in the day REM were frequently called the 'American Smiths'. No, really.
So who is the British REM? (And don't say Starsailor. That might be true for post-"Monster" REM; I mean whose the Brit-Equiv of "Murmur"-era REM?)

Lord Custos III, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

ned is OTM, seriously. all indie kids in america worship weezer like all indie kids in britain worship the smiths. they're both very emo in a weird way. i think the REM thing works in terms of sound, maybe, but not in terms of their place in the culture.

Dave M., Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

two words : Limp Bizkit.

Chris, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the whole problem of Weezer not existing at the same time as the Smiths throws a pretty big wrench in that "place in the culture" concept. Also career placement and career trajectories are way way off. Also while there's a widespread communal approval of the first Weezer record among American indie fans of all stripes, I would seriously contest that American indie fans by and large actually support Weezer as a band.

nabisco%%, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, saying "nowadays X is the American Smiths" invites the question "well then nowadays who is the British Smiths?"

(If we're jumping time-frames the best I can say is that being a circa 87 Smiths fan in America would equate, in America in 2002, to being a fan of some combination of Belle and Sebastian and Radiohead.)

nabisco%%, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

(Or possibly Jimmy Eat World or Dashboard Confessional, on certain levels.)

nabisco%%, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

so no one is buying my gnr/smiths comparison then? i was hoping for focus on the bands themselves rather than the fans, well not totally the bands, but you know!

gareth, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Could Oasis be the British Guns 'n' Roses? *ducks* No, seriously; I'm not sure why, it just feels sort of right.

Clarke B., Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, saying "nowadays X is the American Smiths" invites the question "well then nowadays who is the British Smiths?"
Isn't that band Gene still around?

Lord Custos III, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

so no one is buying my gnr/smiths comparison then?
I can't imagine Axl Rose serenading skinheads or gratefully catching gladiolas. And I don't *want* to imagine Stephen Morrissey with a red bandana and tight tight tight leather pants screaming about "I Wanna Watch You Bleed"; Besides, unlike Slash, you can SEE Johnny Marrs face. Slash is just a cigarette sticking out of a ragmop of hair held down with a top hat.
Besides doesn't the Manic Street Preachers seem a bit closer. Except that Axl dissappeared into oblivion without requiring a search party.

Lord Custos III, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

yes and no. the manics might fit the bill as the british gnr (but then, too try hard perhaps), but the other way round (and there is a distinction i feel), i do see gnr as the american smiths. no, the reasons you have stated do stand against it, but scrub away the very overt differentials and i do feel theres a huge inherent similarity, although i am finding it difficult to express exactly why. which is where you lot come in (to do the thinking for me!!)

gareth, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Not sure about the American Smiths, but i reckon The Strokes are the American Suede

Well sort of... the only flaw would be this: to be an American version of a UK band, do you have to be treatedin the US the way the British band was in the UK??? If the criteria is that strict, then the argument maybe doesn;t hold up: the Strokes are simply treated the same way in the UK as Suede were.

Robin, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

You have good points, Nabisco, and yet: rock band fronted by decidedly non-'rock' personality, absolutely obsessed over by both fans and bands following in their wake, major league impact found in a certain late teen mindset (shall we say), and well-known enough to sell out huge tours and get some level of national attention. No, it's not exact, but I'm not aiming for that here. If there's a key difference, it's that I don't sense a Cult of Cuomo as I do a Cult of Moz.

As for your other two bands -- well, sorta. But I haven't heard of this Belle and Sebastian group, who are they again?

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Surely the Talking Heads were the American Smiths, insofar as they took a shedload of disparate influences from music, jackdawed an intelligence into them, had the charismatic fuck-up lead singer with a stupid dance, and recorded songs about how dance music is shit.

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't know, most of the indie kids i know *obsess* over cuomo. their entire connection with the band is in feeling rivers' pain, especially as regards pinkerton/break up issues.

Dave M., Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Ah, well then, further proof! ;-) But do they get the haircuts?

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Mark Pitchfork is OTM (that stands for "on the money" if I'm not mistaken). I'm too dedicated to The Smiths though to compare them to anybody else, maybe other than The Beatles. I'd like to think the comparisons being made here to Weezer are just sly bits of humor... Somehow a songwriting credit of Cuomo doesn't really have that Lennon/McCartney or Morrissey/Marr lustre.

Tim DiGravina, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

They don't get the haircuts, they get the glasses of course. What's this about Talking Heads saying "dance music is shit"? I don't understand.

I completely buy into the Weezer=Smiths equation. Their music, at one point, meant a lot to me, and I know it still means a lot to many people. I wouldn't underestimate peoples' devotion to the Cult of Cuomo.

Keiko, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"This ain't no disco" is the line which is taken out of context from "Life During Wartime" but by that he meant "this ain't no fun place" as he thought discos were FUN PLACES and LIKED them (Byrne, that is, being the subject of this sentence).

Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I knew that (liner notes to "Once In A Lifetime"), but I was stuck for more reasons to compare them, I was hoping that people didn't read my posts that closely...

"This ain't no party/ This ain't no disco/ This ain't no fooling around". The thing is, you have to work out whether or not the "Wartime" of the title is a time and place that disco was an escape from, or a place that disco ventured to. The actual liner notes basically say "Hey, disco's now called dance, it's great, but it's disposable", which isn't exactly a full blown defence. It's definitely a song you can analyse for ages, and not just inside another thread.

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"Lazy" = surely proof that Byrne doesn't hate discos?!??

Tim, Tuesday, 25 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

the weezer/smiths comparison works except weezer have just released their second 'meat is murder' in a row (crappy album-wise, i know weezer aren't coming back with any good stuff). also, the rest of the band doesn't have much part in the music, unlike marr with the smiths.

tyler, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i think gareth's GNR-as-american-smiths idea has more validity than we're giving him credit for.

more on this later

geeta, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

http://kempa.com/articles/snw/

Damian, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

wow, i'm not alone!!! i'll have to print that off, have a read, and see if we have the same reasons for the comparison

gareth, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I liked my G'n'R = Stone Roses theory better

dave q, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

lazy = proof d.byrne hates US!

mark s, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

chuck klosterman makes a morrissey-axl comparison in Fargo Rock City too, but his take on it is that axl spoke for smalltown american kids as morrissey spoke for closeted gay kids - that they each brought a certian sensibility into engagement with the broader culture and captured the imagination of people beyond hayseeds and fags respectively. I think the mo=gay icon equation is a bit reductive, but I do think there is something to the idea of both of them as caricatures of identifiable types who were successful because they were too complex and singular as individuals to really fit those caricatures.

Fritz, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Eminem is the American Smiths.

anonymous in case you laugh at her, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Both certainly get notice for their hairstyles.

I have to possibly revamp my Weezer judgment a bit if only because I just saw a brilliant e-mail handle: "Motley84 = Weezer02"

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

No way can you say Guns n Roses in the same line as The Smiths. Guns n Roses were a band that weren't interested in the fans or the songs - just in getting their dicks sucked and making lots of $$$$ from awful radio friendly rock songs. That why they've been largely forgotten, no one really rates them as a band. Their albums are never mentioned when 'great albums of all time' come up. They are seen as a flash in the pan that some 11 year olds liked until they discovered something better in the early 90s (Nirvana).

Guns n Roses have nothing in common with The Smiths. Morrissey and co. were the finest band that ever existed and their fan base is dedicated beyond comparison and the influence of The Smiths is huge. Plus, and most importantly, what was being said and the way it was being said was new, unique and utterly brilliant.

I don't think REM come close to The Smiths either. I don't think there can be an American Smiths or a British Smiths.

I guess The Strokes are sorta like Menswear or Elastica. Spotty posh kids with some a few corking tunes, but God knows how long they'll last. I think they'll be around for a while due to their richass parents though.

Calum Robert, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.dragondata.com/~mich/yabb/YaBBImages/s14shakehead.gif

Melissa W, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

(at Calum)

Melissa W, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Calum what exactly is with your weird and usually quite unrealistic caricatures of any rock band ever to chart in the US? The first paragraph of your post consists mostly of statements that are actually provably untrue, especially as it goes on. The Nirvana thing is particularly egregious, insofar as in retrospect, the historical function of G'n'R appears to be as a bridge between hair-metal and grunge: it's incredibly striking all these years on what a fulcrum they were in that regard.

If we're talking place-in-culture I think the mostly-awful Klosterman book nevertheless pegs something: G'n'R and the Smiths both related to their audiences in a particular and similar sort of way, but what they were relating and to whom were, at the time, almost diametrically opposed.

nabisco%%, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think REM come close to The Smiths either.
Well, in a way they *do* have two things in common. 1) They were the mainstream entry-point for their countries alt.pop and 2) They showed that not everyone from "'round those parts" could be classy and smart. The Smiths proved that post-punk wasn't just angry skinheads yelling "Oi Oi Oi!" and REM showed that not all musicians from down south were beer-swilling redneck Allman Bros-wannabes. And they were sensitive while they did it. The more I think about it, Stipe fills the same niche as Morrissey: Anguished sadsack artist from a small town. A male version of Harriet Wheeler.

Lord Custos III, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

(And since middle-school-me pledged absolute loyalty to the Smiths camp in that opposition, deciding whether or not to call G'n'R "the American Smiths" means deciding whether or not I want to conclude that the UK = good and the US = bad: adolescent musical-identity absolutism is kicking into gear, quite appropriately as adolescent musical-identity absolutism is precisely what makes comparisons between the bands viable.)

(How would we separate the outsiderism of both Axl and Moz? Axl's was the outsiderism of being inside, of being typical and thus anonymous, and it was the outsiderism of entry, of proving worth and breaking from anonymity by "taking over." Moz's outsiderism was the outsiderism of difference, an outsiderism that theoretically linked all the different into a viable and separate community.)

nabisco%%, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

And yeah, I'm still with Custos on the REM. This was precisely what I was saying in the REM vs. Smiths thread, that they were essentially the same band except REM had very American (and rural) qualities as opposed to the very British (and very cosmopolitan) Smiths. Open- ended versus rigorously stagey, goof humor versus mordant humor, "friendly" versus "clever" ... it goes on and on.

nabisco%%, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Look, I'm not even entering into this. I was on another music forum a while ago and someone mentioned Guns n Roses. They got the attack they deserved from a bunch of Stone Roses and Smiths fans.

The difference is enormous and the two have nothing in common. Guns n Roses = bad stadium band, largely seen as a joke.

The Smiths = most important British band of the past 20 years.

Maybe you need to be American to see something in common, but as a British (Scottish) person at the time of the early 90s I can ASSURE you the kids who liked Guns n Roses were denying all knowledge of having any such CD in their collection as they hit puberty and, yes, discovered Nirvana.

Calum Robert, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Whatever. G&R rock.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually Calum maybe you need to know anything at all about Guns'n'Roses to debate the connections: anyhow in a thread questioning who might be "the American Smiths" the opinions of Scottish pre-teens aren't particularly relevant. And I'm not arguing that Nirvana and grunge in general didn't pull off most of G'n'R's audience in their moment of weakness -- only that in retrospect it's blindingly clear how much smaller the difference between the two was than it seemed at the time. Also once again Calum your arguments would be more compelling if they were (a) actually arguments and (b) showed any evidence of having read whatever posts you're arguing against (or anyway think you're arguing against, seeing as you rarely appear to have read them well enough to know yourself).

nabisco%%, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

(NB by "Scottish pre-teens" I mean not you but whatever cultural disowning of G'n'R you posit happening around you -- not that plenty of the same thing didn't happen here in the US.) (I assume you personally are at least 13, although I wouldn't be incredibly shocked if I were wrong.)

nabisco%%, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

...I can ASSURE you the kids who liked Guns n Roses were denying all knowledge of having any such CD in their collection as they hit puberty and, yes, discovered Nirvana.
Not true. Theres not shame in owning Appetite for Destruction, but its considered to be horribly gauche to own any of their other albums.
Even my most Indiekid intensive friends feel no shame about the first GnR record. "It fits nicely between Jon Spencer Blues Explosion and Redd Kross" they'd day without a trace of irony.
Sure, G'n'R were a stadium rock metal band, but they were a VERY GOOD stadium rock metal band. In the 80s only Metallica (and possibly Megadeth, Anthrax or Slayer) could be considered to be their artistic equals in the genre, with all other stadium metal bands a distant distant 3rd place.
After hearing a bunch of Bon Jovi crud for 5 years, Appetite for Destruction was a breath of fresh ait. Trust me, Calum, that record is much better than you remember.

Lord Custos III, Wednesday, 26 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

The Smiths are still seen as great, brilliant etc, Gunsn Roses are seen as crap

Why the emphasis on "how they are seen"? I mean, Michael Jackson is widely seen as the King of Pop. While I wouldn't even want to be seen touching any of his albums with a ten foot pole.

Mind you, while G'nR are quite uniformly (and rightly) ridiculed, the amount of The Smiths haters can not be underestimated. 50,000,000 Smiths haters can't be wrong.

Say, that actually sound quite good...

Siegbran Hetteson, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, Imagine the album cover. 100 Mozz's in gold lame suits, grinning widely and covered with splatters of rotten tomatoes.

Lord Custos III, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Cornershop to thread!

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 28 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

i am not american, and i am still horny over the september reelease date for chinese democracy

Queen I am neither Buffy nor the Messiah G, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

What an interesting parallel, Gareth. I would've never thought of putting guns and roses and the smiths in the same sentence but here we are.

I think that having read the thread there seems to be far more of a connection than I would've thought abt before but I have never given much thought to Guns and roses (its just time and place, I guess).

Both bands are something you grow out of but you'll always remember the happy memories they gave you. In terms of sound it's different and the same. I definetely get the stones' comparison to both and lyrically they did appeal to adolescents, just like every other band who had some degree of success. Guns n'Roses are surely more in the minds of other bands because they were huge. The smiths had a few chart hits in the UK but were a cult following.

Nirvana's seuccess of course, is due to the use of the power chord. they were a heavy metal band with diff. lyrical themes (though maybe not so far from the Roses). grunge is what you get when you splice punk w/heavy metal.

Its amazing to think Calum has a degree. He is acting like some bad comedian out of the 1970s (Bernard Manning comes to mind). No wonder Mark E Smith hates students. Like nabisco, i thought he must have been 13 or so. It boggles the mind.

''Sorry, everyone for acting embarrassingly like Julio and even bothering to engage over this one.''

Oh, come off it Nabisco...the way ILM is constructed, you can get into arguments that just snowball. You have argued at quite a lenght too and so have quite a few on the Sleeper thread. But yes, it is time to stop and get back into more constructive, thought-provoking discussions.

Julio Desouza, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Appetite for Descrution is only £4.99 in the HMV sale! It's worth getting!

jel --, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

'descrution'!!!! that rulez!! other 4.99 bargains: 'meat is order', 'the queen is kind of dead'

geeta, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

descrution should only be performed by a licensed vet with special tools and a sterile dropcloth.

Lord Custos III, Saturday, 29 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

oh no! not another pinketron type incident! hehe! :)

jel --, Sunday, 30 June 2002 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

three months pass...
You can take any two arbitrary bands and draw up parallels. Why does the GNR and Smiths parallel tend to stand out?

On the website Smith & Wesson, I could find only superficial similarites.
1. Controversial lyrics: not uncommon (great for publicity as well)
Now if they had controversial lyrics for the *same* reason,then
I would've been more impressed. But as it is, Moz's controversial lyrics are not nearly as controversial as "faggots, niggers, hating immigrants" of GNR's.
2. Bands featuring "one-named" members. Common as well.
3. Neither singers used their real name. Typically it's the singer who is "one-named" in which case obviously he would not be using his real name. Name-changing is quite common.
4. Both lead guitarists are from the UK, and neither used their real name. Here we go with the name thing again. Is it that big of a deal to mention it 3 times? It is interesting that both were from the UK however..
5. Members of both bands declare their supremacy. Quite common as well.

In the end, these parallels don't really stand out much.

The only major parallels I see between the two are the following:
1. Both GNR and The Smiths served to creating a huge buzz in their respective music worlds with continued fascination to this day.
2. Both bands seemed to have arrived at a musically dreary period and helped rejuvenate the music scene.
3. Both bands thrived on controversy.
4. Axel on quest for

anonymoususer, Saturday, 12 October 2002 16:28 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...
Oh, this is a beautiful premise for a thread, let's revive it!

AaronHz (AaronHz), Tuesday, 5 October 2004 06:29 (fifteen years ago) link

one year passes...
i think of Guns'n'Roses as the American version of The Smiths

the strokes' first impressions of earth = what "guns 'n' roses as the american version of the smiths" really sounds like? use your illusion I + strangeways?

dancing chicken (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 30 January 2006 02:14 (fourteen years ago) link

That's kinda frightening.

(I still stand by my Weezer comparison as being apt for late nineties/early this decade time. Now, not so much.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 30 January 2006 02:18 (fourteen years ago) link

I still think of For Against as being the American Smiths.

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 30 January 2006 02:49 (fourteen years ago) link

i rather spend fifteen minutes with jeff runnings than morrissey

electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Monday, 30 January 2006 03:02 (fourteen years ago) link

six months pass...
perhaps you have some newer ideas about this conundrum?

-- (688), Sunday, 13 August 2006 05:37 (thirteen years ago) link

Bright Eyes

nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Sunday, 13 August 2006 06:53 (thirteen years ago) link

Wait a minute. Guns and Roses the American version of the Smiths? How has this travesty of a comparison occured?

Bright Eyes is a much better place to start. But unforunately there is no American version of the Smiths. There couldn't be.

Kiss My Grits! (Bimble...), Sunday, 13 August 2006 07:58 (thirteen years ago) link

I'm glad this thread has been revived, it's got some comdey gold from Calum.

Plus one was a stadium rock outfit who were in it for the money the drugs and the groupies.

And some members of the Smiths weren't?

i am not american, and i am still horny over the september reelease date for chinese democracy

-- Queen I am neither Buffy nor the Messiah G (effexxo...) (webmail), June 29th, 2002 2:00 AM.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 13 August 2006 09:11 (thirteen years ago) link

i was thinking socially, more than trying to think of a band that sort of tries to sound like them

-- (688), Sunday, 13 August 2006 10:43 (thirteen years ago) link

REM

m coleman (lovebug starski), Sunday, 13 August 2006 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link

I always forget what a meathead Calum was.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 August 2006 22:45 (thirteen years ago) link

is he the same guy who just interviewed Oliver Stone in LA Weekly?

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 15 August 2006 23:10 (thirteen years ago) link

the answer is Slayer

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 12:42 (thirteen years ago) link

Drive-By Truckers.

Pete W (peterw), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 12:50 (thirteen years ago) link

that there's no real answer to this question is one of the few reasons left to be proud of being american

got so much $ can't spend it so fast (teenagequiet), Wednesday, 16 August 2006 12:54 (thirteen years ago) link

five years pass...

So axl ended up being less racist than morrissey

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 22 January 2012 02:58 (eight years ago) link

has morrissey ever came out with anything as bad "one in a million"? i mean he's obv a racist but come on.

zverotic discourse (jim in glasgow), Sunday, 22 January 2012 03:06 (eight years ago) link

Bengali in Platforms is probably an obvious one.

earlnash, Sunday, 22 January 2012 03:22 (eight years ago) link

I think bengali is kinda worse in a way

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 22 January 2012 17:14 (eight years ago) link

haha previous ilm discussion of "bengali in platforms" is sort of weird

horseshoe, Sunday, 22 January 2012 17:18 (eight years ago) link

It's more smug and paternal and super condescending

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 22 January 2012 17:21 (eight years ago) link

And because axl is so emotional and scattershot and troubled than moz, I'm more inclined to believe he was channeling his ugly feelings from when he first moved to l.a., where miz again and again has said out of line shit and always seems really calculating and manipulative in how he presents it

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 22 January 2012 17:24 (eight years ago) link

i don't know that morrissey is not troubled, but i guess his persona is lot less volatile than axl's, yeah

horseshoe, Sunday, 22 January 2012 17:25 (eight years ago) link

nice Morrissey quote:

"Did you see the thing on the news about their treatment of animals and animal welfare?" he said. "Absolutely horrific. You can't help but feel that the Chinese are a subspecies."

I think if we're looking for proof or racism, we might have something definitive hidden away in that sentence.

Jamie_ATP, Sunday, 22 January 2012 18:02 (eight years ago) link

Blue Oyster Cult.

in a better world, perhaps

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:18 (eight years ago) link

there was the whole "wrapping himself in a Union Jack in front of a large crowd of skinheads" incident to add to Moz's record too.

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:28 (eight years ago) link

'Skinheads' or Morrissey fans?

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:32 (eight years ago) link

it was a Madness concert in the early 90s, in Finsbury Park. The way the NME painted it, there were a lot of NF types there.

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:33 (eight years ago) link

Right. Far be it for me to defend Morrissey (there's a first time for everything) but it's hardly his fault if some other band's fans contain a few fascists.

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:37 (eight years ago) link

Suggs from Madness was like best friends with the dude from Skrewdriver right? I thought Madness had a lot of ties to WP skinhead stuff under the surface

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:39 (eight years ago) link

xp But to then wrap oneself in the flag, in the full knowledge of the type of audience you're in front of, seems ill-advised at best, and extremely dodgy at worst.

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:39 (eight years ago) link

Suggs from Madness was like best friends with the dude from Skrewdriver right? I thought Madness had a lot of ties to WP skinhead stuff under the surface

Well, there was a rumour that he'd been friends with a guy from Skrewdriver, not the main guy, but who knows? And a lot of Madness' early fans were skinheads so, given that scene at the time, it's likely there were a few wrong 'uns among them.

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:46 (eight years ago) link

i'm not gonna post stuff from skrewdriver bio sites, but anyway i found a bunch of wiki stuff that said suggs worked as a roadie for skrewdriver and when suggs moved out to his own house the ian main dude took his old room and lived with sugg's mom in her house for a while

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:56 (eight years ago) link

(i guess that was "stuff" i meant links)

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 16:57 (eight years ago) link

Wow.

"Sorry to bother you, Mrs McPherson, but do you think could you turn down that recording of Hitler's address to the Reichstag please? I can't hear what Shaw Taylor's saying on Police 5."

"Oh sorry love, that's the lodger, what's he like? He does love 'is Adolf, bless 'im!"

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 17:03 (eight years ago) link

By the way, from Shaw Taylor's wiki page:

Taylor was a boyhood friend of the writer Anthony Burgess, who published his novella A Clockwork Orange in 1962, the same year Police 5 was first broadcast. The novella's central character - Alexander the Large - was said to be loosely based on Taylor, who was interested in violent crime from a very early age and also had a rare gift for the English language, as demonstrated by his "Keep 'em peeled" catchphrase.

... this is surely bollocks? Taylor is from Hackney and Burgess was a Manc for starters.

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 17:08 (eight years ago) link

eight years pass...

If it hadn't already been done to death, I'd have launched a Smiths website. But too many already. So I decided instead to launch a website around the music of two other great songwriters - Cathal Coughlan and Sean O'Hagan. On https://coughlanohagan.com/, I think I'm building up something worthwhile. Hope you enjoy it.

weirwrite, Saturday, 23 May 2020 06:52 (four days ago) link

I'd think American Music Club might fit the bill. Arch self deprecating lyricist over classic melodic rock though there's a lot more country in it alongside Nick Drake and stuff.
Singer even came out of the closet later but is thankfully not a rabid patriot or xenophobe.

Stevolende, Saturday, 23 May 2020 07:01 (four days ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.