Peter Brotzmann: Already started, need more!

Some of the Last Exit albs that Brotz made w/ Sharrock, Jackson and the dreaded Laswell suffer a bit from dated 80s production, but all have their moments - the studio alb 'Iron Path' esp.

Thanks for recommendations!

The release, Shadows, with Keiji Haino and Shoji Hano, looks interesting too.

"I've got nipples and yesterday I bought 'For adolph sax'."

Really, Julio?''

You know, I've got a friend who does just this sort of thing a lot of the time!

''Drake has one of the strangest drumming techniques I have ever seen. Very tribal: he seems to be playing with his hands--and just happens to be holding sticks.''

There was some strange stuff going on with Drake's drumming. I didn't get a proper view though (the drummers were at the back, behind all the other eight players so it wasn't easy to see).

i saw brotzman duo with kowald in '86 and almost pissed myself laughing -- i was sitting beside this young couple out for a romatic nite of jazz who left in the interval

brotz strutted around the stage with his mighty big sax and seemed to be living it all out better than any guitarist or almost anyone else i'd ever seen on any instrument -- his little trick for one piece was to remind us he's the loudest in the world by piercing our ears with pocket sized tourist edition sax in this hall the size and acoustics of a cathedral

it was an evening of german trad pelvic tree stump dancing -- he's one of those performers with energy to burn, both big burly men and kowald bald and seriousley heavy looking with his hands in a blur over his bass -- so i did two forty-five minute bouts with them laughing and sort of pummelled after it all -- i too was struck by the vitality and the way he ripped into everything he did

i think the jazz orchestra 3cd chicago thing with some of those others you mentioned is a great follow up to the full-on machine gun, and olu iwa with cecil is another rip roaring show stealing performance -- proof that he really rides those harmonies with serious deft speed and justifies the "take it to a new level" bulk roar and "excess" -- the j stalin or polar bear of fast fun jazz -- i think i understand that he was what made the concert you saw truly something else

Yeah, you're right. There was a lot of talent on display but when he came on he took it to another level. Somehow he did.

''i saw brotzman duo with kowald in '86 and almost pissed myself laughing -- i was sitting beside this young couple out for a romatic nite of jazz who left in the interval''

I wish I was there, George! I wish I was there when this happened.

'Last Exit'.

Their 1980 album "The Nearer The Bone" on FMP (not sure if it's been upgraded to CD yet) is a fine example of how well they worked as a unit.

Just as it was for me (he had to stand there for quite a bit at times, as had all others at various, but he was slightly to the right, and he would close his eyes and just listen). Mats Gutsfasson was grinning manically when brotzmann was letting one of his two big solos rip.

And did that make the show better or worse for it? (and how was brotzmann)?

The way these 'pieces' turned out was that each performer got a solo (with some accompainment, say) so I don't get the'ppl were fading out' bit though with that many people on stage it is hard to keep up.

Really! Never got that feeling during the concert. But I do think it would be quite difficult for me to answer that. I'd probably need a recording and to listen to it a couple of times. But i don't have any.

(1) oh you know!
(2) great...it was the same show george was talking about, the kowald/brotz duo show in chch in 1980-something.

I know Brotzmann played with fushitsusha in '96(?) but that has never been issued (wonder why?).

thanks for reviving it anyway.

Brotzmann told me after the show that the previous night, when they had played the same club, the trio had been much more subdued. "You would not have recognized us," he joked, and when I asked him why the difference between the two nights he was very clear about it: the audience's energy level.

Uh, I can guarantee you Drake is not inexperienced on almost any drum he chooses to play. He's been playing the frame drum in duo with Brotzmann for around a dozen years.

I really couldn't get into the Brotzmann/Haino disc. Was really looking forward to hearing it but it didn't move me at all.

i saw the brotzmann/drake/parker trio last night in pittsburgh. i was mostly disappointed with it. the first set they did didn't really feel cohesive, and they cut it short - i could tell that they weren't feeling it either. the second set started off great, because hamid was rocking the frame drum, which i think is astounding. brotzmann stuck mostly to the clarinet here, and it was nice - lots of sweeping fluttery circles of sound. i guess i felt the completely opposite of o.nate, in that when their non-"usual" instruments were the highlight of the show for me. when they returned to the tenor/bass/drums for the end it was a lot more inspired than the first set, but still not as great as the quieter moments.

of course, i'm not that wild about brotzmann as a saxophonist - i like him and respect his accomplishments but stylistically he's not something i'm wild about. i saw the die like a dog quartet three years ago with roy campbell, and it was far more inciendiery. maybe i was just missing campbell last night..... but even drake seemed a little bit under his usual level of dazzling ability.

How can you disagree vehemently? You didn't see the show! Maybe they have experience coming out the wazoo - but it didn't sound like it that night! Free jazz is a bit like a high-wire act without a net - when it works, it is thrilling, but the lows can be quite low, because you don't have the composed material to fall back on when things aren't coming together. Fans of free jazz who've been to many shows come to expect to put up with dry patches to get to the good stuff - that's part of the form! I just don't think we should treat free jazz as though it's some kind of holy activity that should be above criticism. And no matter how good the players are, they will have dry spells.

Just saw the cross-post, so I'll just add that every night is different with improvised music - that's part of the fun.

''Just saw the cross-post, so I'll just add that every night is different with improvised music - that's part of the fun.''

yes and yes!

''but it didn't sound like it that night! Free jazz is a bit like a high-wire act without a net - when it works, it is thrilling, but the lows can be quite low, because you don't have the composed material to fall back on when things aren't coming together.''

but isn't some free jazz stuff composed?

S/D Peter Brotzmann

This is the thread where we thank whoever is responsible for the atavistic reish program of old FMP releases!

'no nothing' (the solo disc mentioned upthread) didn't do much for me.

(gotta say I haven't seen either group live and it's just from listening to a couple of discs by each of those groups)

http://www.monastery.nl/bulletin/images/peter_brotzmann_07.jpg

http://www.roulette.org/events/2008_04.html

looking forward to that roulette show! the brotz/haino disc is one of my favorites of his. and i'd highly recommend no nothing -- probably my favorite of his solo discs.

sadly, the two times i've seen him live didn't measure up. first time was with drake, and i don't know if brotz was tired or what, but his sound was really thin and barely made it past the stage -- i was frankly shocked at how meager it all sounded. second time was with the tentet, and he was in much better form -- tore the paint off the walls. unfortunately, as adept as most of the other musicians were, some were just kind of bland and faceless (particularly vandermark).

I saw the tentet+2 as well. The same year I also saw Sunn0))), Orthrelm, and Flux Information Sciences. It was a brain-scrambling year.

Seeing this guy recently in a duo with a vibraphonist and then hearing his collab with drummer Walter Perkins and his Nothung trio CD (featuring William Parker) has made me realize how grossly misinformed I have been about this man's work. Years ago I bought Machine Gun and Nipples because I heard they were so monstrously far out, and I certainly wasn't disappointed based on that. But because of this early exposure, I'd always considered him this hypermasculine, fire-breathing endurance tester of a player, and didn't suppose I needed to investigate beyond what I had. I was so wrong! There is such beauty in his playing, such nuance - so much humanity! That's probably a very cliche thing to say about PB but it's apt, somehow. Where to next?? And remember, while I consider myself a casual fan of all out screamfests (Burrell's Echo, Sharrock's Black Woman, etc), I'm looking for more like what I've heard recently. I'm a big fan of the Chris McGregor / South African stuff, so maybe that album with Moholo and Miller should be my next stop?

Schwartzwaldfahrt (that 1977 duo camping/field-recording trip Brotzmann/Bennink document) is really worth a listen if you haven't heard it--really delicate/nuanced/immersive (2 CDs long!) and playful/strange/confusing (a lot of nice confusion re: who's doing what, esp. since Han is also playing horns of some sort at points and Brotzmann is likewise playing percussion too)--over the years, I've come back to it a lot more than "Machine Gun", etc. for whatever reason.

Saw him in a duo with Perkins some years ago, and it was pretty stunning. I'd been listening to Brötzmann for years prior, but this show really gave me a new angle on his approach. The record with Moholo and Miller is great; it may be tough to find on vinyl, but I believe FMP has a site where you can download older titles, this being one of them (The Nearer The Bone, The Sweeter The Meat).

Have to say I listen to his son Caspar a lot more.
Though maybe I need to get some more Peter, not sure why I let the Machine Gun remaster go without grabbing a copy.

I'm very fond of his duo with Paal Nilssen-Love which has put out two bracing albums, Woodcuts and Sweet Sweat. The Fat Is Gone adds Mats Gustafsson to the mix with predictably explosive results.

Thanks yall! Good recommendations, all. I'll investigate...

His new one is absolutely fantastic. The hyperbolic language is justified here:
http://www.volcanictongue.com/tips/show/317

Peter blew me away live last year. His solo set was one of the most beautiful and intense things I've ever heard.
Caspar on the other hand I found really boring when he played Glasgow earlier this year. I'd kind of assumed it would be like his dad, but on guitar, but what we got was a joyless plod with a really boring rhythm section, muddy guitar work and dreadful goth vocals.

I've hardly been disappointed by any of his releases I've heard and I got could on and on about dozens of records, but "Never Too late But Always Too Early" with William Parker and Hamid Drake from 2003 is one of my very favorites and the one I always point people to check out.

Oooh, that's one of the best rhythm sections in the business. I'll need to hear that. Parker can do no wrong either in my eyes. His new Essences of Ellington 2LP is glorious, not least for having Dave Burrell on piano.

I saw him a three yrs ago playing with Nasheet Waits on drums & Eric Revis on bass (who plays Brandford Marsalis quartet) and it was really fantastic, esp considering when I saw them in Milwaukee they already played a show earlier that day in Chicago. I'd love to hear a record by that trio.

Oh and "Guts" Brotzmann & Joe McPhee, Kent Kessler and Michael Zerang on Okka Disk is another stand out.

To be fair to Caspar, he only started performing publicly again in about 2010 after something like a decade away. When I saw him in 1995 (his trio, Caspar Brotzmann Massaker, was opening for Helmet and Girls vs Boys), he was fantastic, like a cross between Hendrix circa 1970 and the Jesus Lizard. I don't know what he's like now, but I was a huge Massaker fan back then and would definitely go if he played New York.

That Never Too Late... record is really, really good; Guts too.

It's a bummer so little of this music is available (or was ever available - stupid 90s!!) on vinyl. I have such a hard time dropping $30+ for a CD these days, and the idea of Brotzmann / Moholo / Miller on mp3 just doesn't seem very appealing.

Ah, just noticed that that Moholo / Miller trio recording IS on vinyl! Add to cart!

http://www.thewire.co.uk/images/artists/brotzmann__peter/cover345.jpg

Fantastic cover, and a really good article too.

It is a beautiful cover, best one for a while. Who wrote the story?

A friend of mine just told me that Brotzmann played some show for kids (!) not too long ago. Maybe in Texas?

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/36305_10151058348635753_540392369_n.jpg

It is a beautiful cover, best one for a while. Who wrote the story?

That was David Keenan, another opportunist effort from him

Oh gimme a break - "opportunist." God forbid the man pen a cover story. What a cad.

Anyway, very excited for this issue

Don't got a problem with the man's writing per se, quite the contrary, he's an excellent writer and this is a great feature. OTOH he does tend to ride the zeitgeist somewhat.

didn't realise brotzmann was 'the zeitgeist'

well that's the impression I'm getting at the moment

did he coin some labyrinthine new genre this time?

Listening to Machine Gun for the first time. WOW! Who'd have thought free jazz could be so... fun? I mean actual, non-academically fun. Moments in this sound genuinely anarchic and hilarious.

Actual machine guns are fun too btw.