can of worms time re: cool / west coast jazz

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look, without placing a value judgement on it or claiming to be infalliable , i just realized that everyone i think of as west coast / cool jazz is white. chet baker, gerry mulligan, art pepper, lee konitz, cal tjader, lennie tristano, al cohn, jimmy giuffre, vince guaraldi, barney kessel, tal farlow, etc etc.

was there some sort of policy or something in LA where you couldn't be a black bandleader? or is this there just some sort of deceptive hindsight thing?

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

i just began my phase of investigating beyond the miles cool session and stan getz bossa stuff

got the gerry mulligan early 10 inchs. really good stuff.

i fear those who bash it imply that hard-bop was inherently better, yet probably actually enjoy very little hard-bop either.

serious sockpuppet here (PappaWheelie V), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:11 (nine years ago) Permalink

a couple things --

1. http://www.amazon.com/West-Coast-Jazz-Anthology-California/dp/B00000FXNT
^^^That comp is incredible

2. ...one sec ....

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:17 (nine years ago) Permalink

there's a lot of great stuff ... i've especially been really getting into tal farlow and cal tjader lately. and i've enjoyed lee konitz and lennie tristano forever.

i'm sort of suspicious of this question because there's not a huge stylistic gulf between, say, lee konitz in the 50s and kenny dorham in the 50s. but for whatever reason we call lee konitz "cool jazz" and kenny dorham "hard bop".

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

2.... 'the cool' started @ mintons & monroe's playhouse in ny, not on the west coast altho its associated w/ that scen -- w/ max roach & kenny clarke drumming ... dudes associated w/ basically creating it were white and black, it was a more mixed crowd but then the cool was sorta an offshoot in terms of the mainstream of jazz as a whole ...

j.j. johnson was pretty heavily involved also ... john lewis is probably pretty important to the sound of it.

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

the only reason i can think of for it being more mixed other than something kinda silly like "white musicians liked the cooler sound" is just the fact that the sound was really centered around the relationship miles had w/ gil evans & the harmonic ideas he introduced miles to ... miles had just left parker & was playing w/ max roach a lot at the time. a lot of the songs miles was playing @ the royal roost (which is where that 2nd disc on the reissue of 'birth of the cool' was recorded) were written by mulligan, evans & john lewis as well as Davis (so white white black black)

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:24 (nine years ago) Permalink

so why is it that when people make lists of cool / west coast jazz it's always white dudes?

and to get at what hurting's saying about lee konitz not exactly being confined to a west coast ghetto, yeah i agree, i mean when you hear jimmy giuffre stuff on the radio it's always like the ultra-quiet elevator music type stuff he did with guys like jim hall (who recorded with fire music #1 bassist ron carter, right?) but then he also did ultra-quiet avant stuff in 1961 ("fusion" and "thesis") that practically sounds like what anthony braxton would be doing ten years later

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

anyway the REASON miles & gil's relationship would add that diversity is bcuz gil had a lot of white musicians coming thru his place also

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:26 (nine years ago) Permalink

xp

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:27 (nine years ago) Permalink

like if you flip through things tagged 'cool jazz' on amazon, it's like a few 50s miles albums, "giant steps", and then like 100 albums with smiling white people on the cover

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:27 (nine years ago) Permalink

ah, maybe i'm projecting here. i mean 90% of that list is gil evans, dave brubeck, chet baker, vince guaraldi, gerry mulligan, art pepper ... hey! see what i'm getting at?

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:30 (nine years ago) Permalink

another theory -- woody herman & stan kenton big bands pretty much were the feeder teams for jazz musicians in the west coast & those were both largely white bands, where the east coast in the 50s was more about blue note

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:30 (nine years ago) Permalink

just found this

http://vermontreview.tripod.com/Jazz/westcoastjazz.htm


Just as the Blue Note Studios served as a farm system for modern jazz on the East Coast, the big bands of Woody Herman and Stan Kenton had a similar impact on the West Coast. Although the sounds, technique and popularity of Herman’s and Kenton’s bands were quite different, the two bands shared a similarity in the fact that they both played distinctly modern music and by doing so, their bands were able to survive the post-swing era. With the advent of the bop of Dizzy Gillepsie and Charlie Parker during the 1940s, swing met a quick demise. However Herman and Kenton were able to keep the swing sound going through the clever combination of big band and bop styles. From these two bands, the core for both the West Coast Jazz scene and these four discs found its roots. Between the straightforward swing of Herman and the somewhat controversial sounds of Kenton, West Coast players such as Art Pepper, Bud Shank, Jimmy Guiffre, Bill Holman, Bob Cooper, Shorty Rogers and Bill Perkins (even musicians such as Shelly Manne, Zoot Sims, Richie Kamuca and Conte Candoli played in both outfits.) found their springboard for successful careers.

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

that's not a bad theory - i was figuring it had to do with something like that, or some obscure historical fact like the price of cabaret cards ...

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:33 (nine years ago) Permalink

yeah i swear i remember reading some details about miles' time in cali but i cant find whatever book it was -- some stuff about him following parker, & parker bcoming all alcoholic bcuz there was a drought of smack in LA ... the reason they left NY was because of cabaret cards in the first place, i think, and then returned following the drugs, i think, but i could be remembering wrong and im unable to find whatever book it was i read it in

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:37 (nine years ago) Permalink

obv everyone on the west coast scene was hugely influenced by parker so his trips there were kind of what allowed the west coast scene to adapt after the end of the swing era

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 06:39 (nine years ago) Permalink

Teddy Edwards was black, but then, he wasn't all that "cool" oriented.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 09:39 (nine years ago) Permalink

don't forget chico hamilton!

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 10:13 (nine years ago) Permalink

(also, chico's pals in cali were mingus, dexter gordon, buddy collette.)

(and never forget the genius of hampton hawes either, okay? he made some of the best jazz records, period. west coast or east coast.)

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 10:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

also, if you are looking for a black west coast bandleader who made some very cool records:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3143/2577981399_cdf3627f98.jpg?v=0

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 10:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

and another cool black west coast bandleader while i'm at it:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/2898938772_2f6d8e85df.jpg?v=0

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 10:23 (nine years ago) Permalink

but just make sure you own at least five or six essential hampton hawes records, okay?

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 10:24 (nine years ago) Permalink

Scott, I only have I'm All Smiles. More Hawes recommendations?

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 10:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

I love west coast jazz so so much and I have often had the same thought - why is it so many more white dudes than be-bop? wonder whether there are some answers in this in boring stuff like the census, differing rates of diversity geographically (still extant today I think: http://www.infoplease.com/us/census/black-population-2004.html - although yeah if you wanna really get into some politics, talk census with some activists for a minute)

but yeah when I hear west coast jazz on the radio (I wake up to wncu, they are often playing exactly the stuff I dig) I'll lie there and think "who's this? gotta go investigate this!" and then it's, like, three guys who all look like my dad, and then I immediately go <a href=";>hmmm</a>

J0hn D., Wednesday, 14 January 2009 13:15 (nine years ago) Permalink

well, fuck.

J0hn D., Wednesday, 14 January 2009 13:15 (nine years ago) Permalink

sonned by the difference between semicolons and quotation marks

J0hn D., Wednesday, 14 January 2009 13:16 (nine years ago) Permalink

I always got the impression that the relegation of "cool" jazz to white musicians was something largely done by more politicized critics and musicians, and probably more the former than the latter. Some people felt a (rather understandable) need to keep the sense of jazz as a black artform, and it was convenient, if reductive, to take a branch of the music that had a large number of white musicians anyway and was taking on a lot of modern classical influences and just label it "white," as opposed to the hard-bop of the time where black musicians/composers were increasingly breaking out of standards-based composition and increasingly looking to African influences. I don't know if this criticism is something that emerged contemporaneously or if it was a later revisionism though. I could be wrong about my entire theory.

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 13:50 (nine years ago) Permalink

^^ this is basically what i meant when i called it a "hindsight" thing.

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 16:19 (nine years ago) Permalink

this book isn't about cool jazz, but whenever i see it i scoff

http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Chords-Musicians-Contribution-1915-1945/dp/019514838X/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231951479&sr=1-11

(jaxon) ( .) ( .) (jaxon), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 16:47 (nine years ago) Permalink

I feel like a similar question could be asked about the how and why doo-wop went from black to italian-americans. the difference is, there was not a separate tag for them. however, most black musicians were moving onto soul while dion continued doo-woppin.

serious sockpuppet here (PappaWheelie V), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

http://www.ucpress.edu/image/covers/160/8374.160.jpg

This book by Ted Gioia explains all. Or at least I assume it does -- it's been sitting on my shelf for eight years, unread.

Eazy, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:17 (nine years ago) Permalink

The Mulligan/Farmer/Bailey/Crow quartet is one of my favorite "cool" groups and happens to be half black half white.

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:20 (nine years ago) Permalink

Off topic, slightly, but I always like Jazz Dudes at Beach album covers:
http://www.jazz.com/assets/2008/1/8/albumcoverCannonballAdderleyQuintetAtTheLighthouse.jpg
Insane to me that the Lighthouse was within walking distance of where I grew up ... Seems like a lot of good stuff went down there before my time.

tylerw, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

Ray Brown outnumbered
http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/07/1036107.jpg

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

Only based on the votes of a bunch of mostly white people though!

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:33 (nine years ago) Permalink

Ha.

Probably another reason to cut off West Coast branch was that they were making Hollywood session dollars as opposed to keeping it real in the New York, um, cabarets.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:34 (nine years ago) Permalink

i LOVE when barney kessel wears scarves

moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

http://image.listen.com/img/170x170/4/7/7/7/487774_170x170.jpg

^^good record

Eazy, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:44 (nine years ago) Permalink

I just read some story about Barney Kessel going with teenage fan-boy Phil Spector to make a record in a Record-It-Yourself booth.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:46 (nine years ago) Permalink

Also while I'm here let me rep for Barney Kessel novelty track "TV Commercials" on Darlene Love comp So Much Love.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:51 (nine years ago) Permalink

miles davis obviously experimented with some west coast dudes (seven steps to heaven etc.), what other nyc guys took a vacation and made a west coast record?

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 17:52 (nine years ago) Permalink

http://www.jazz.com/assets/2007/11/24/wayoutwest.jpg

tylerw, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 18:01 (nine years ago) Permalink

^^^^^^ Def. one of my favorite records ...

tylerw, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 18:02 (nine years ago) Permalink

Ha. I think Shelly Manne was one of Sonny's favorite drummers.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 18:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

I forget how the lighthouse burned down but it was for a really stupid reason

cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:33 (nine years ago) Permalink

argh I forget what it was but I was looking at some photography book that was just pictures of jazz dudes hanging out at the beach in LA and jazz dudes riding cable cars in sf

cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:35 (nine years ago) Permalink

Yeah it is a funny contrast -- the pics from NYC are always b&w, gritty dark nightclubby things, and then Jazz dudes come out west and it's all smiles ... Looking at that pic of Cannonball and Co., I can imagine why! The beach! The ocean! Los Angeles! I guess I've read some unpleasant things about being black at the time and dealing with the LAPD, though ... Big surprise, right?

tylerw, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:40 (nine years ago) Permalink

speaking of barney kessel, and shelley manne, and hampton hawes, this album is great:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drf200/f297/f29716h03d1.jpg

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:42 (nine years ago) Permalink

I'm a big fan of Jim Hall also. All the Paul Desmond recordings with him are good. I really like the Jimmy Giuffre "elevator music" stuff (as someone called it upthread) too. The Art Farmer Quartets with him are great if you can find them. Most of all, the Sonny Rollins sessions with Hall, although I don't know if those are properly called "cool jazz."

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:46 (nine years ago) Permalink

this is a really nice west coast record:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1150/1407818970_45886f6232.jpg?v=0

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:49 (nine years ago) Permalink

damn that does look good ...

tylerw, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:50 (nine years ago) Permalink

Fuk, I love Harold Land and Scott LaFaro. I didn't know about all these good Hampton Hawes records.

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:52 (nine years ago) Permalink

"Oh hey, emusic has volumes 2 and 3. Is Jim Hall on all the volumes?"

yeah. they played all night! hence the title.

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:52 (nine years ago) Permalink

Did Hampton Hawes ever release a record called Hems and Hawes?

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:53 (nine years ago) Permalink

i love harold land too

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:54 (nine years ago) Permalink

Harold is cool.

That Jimmy Giuffre thing at the beginning of Jazz On A Summer's Day is awesome.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:54 (nine years ago) Permalink

YES

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:54 (nine years ago) Permalink

The Train and the River

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:54 (nine years ago) Permalink

again, the early trio records are also fab. hampton, red mitchell, and, um...i'm blanking....

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/ACTPOD/OJCCD-316-2~Hampton-Hawes-Trio-The-Trio-v-1-Posters.jpg

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:56 (nine years ago) Permalink

Earlier Jim Hall is probably my favorite jazz guitar. His sound got kind of cheesy later though and I don't think he chose the best people to play with.

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

also search the late 60's black lion stuff. awesome as well. what can i say, i'm a fan.

http://lh4.google.com/MyJazzWorld/RqpoeLdJ-lI/AAAAAAAAAVc/O5sSzZmW5Sk/s288/HamptonHawes_SpanishSteps.jpg

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 19:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

ever hear greg osby's invisible hand record? i haven't heard it for a long time, but it has jim hall and andrew hill on it and whatever it is, it's not cheesy.

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:00 (nine years ago) Permalink

best shelley manne cover (and not a bad record either, despite my indifference to andre previn):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/2071307048_42663c04f3.jpg?v=0

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

Hey, I recently learned that Johnny Mercer wrote those songs!

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

a later record by a guy from boston who headed out west, this is very cool and worth tracking down (um, cuz it's also another example of a black bandleader making a west coast kinda sound with west coast dudes):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2235/2064941759_c30686f3b9.jpg?v=0

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:13 (nine years ago) Permalink

Hampton Hawes' autobio, "Raise Up Off Me" is great, as is Art Pepper's "Straight Life" for depicting the LA scene of the day. I can't remember the author of "West Coast Jazz", but there's a ton of info including the perspective of the WC record label heads, ie Contemporary, Pacific Jazz etc. It's comprehensive, but the writing is less than engaging.

WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:14 (nine years ago) Permalink

shelly manne and his men at the manhole is the name of an actual (good) shelly manne record fyi

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:15 (nine years ago) Permalink

charles mingus came from watts and a lot of his early recordings are 'west coast' in a sense

xhuxk d (deej), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:16 (nine years ago) Permalink

yeah, i mentioned mingus up top. but it's kinda like calling eric dolphy "west coast". you know? they were both from there and played there, but...

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

the west coast cool vibe thing was it's own thing and it could be very cool indeed. i like a lot of that stuff. not so much the desmondbrubecktjader stuff though. i have very little time for dave brubeck. blah.

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

skot, you wanna hate on Cal Tjader, come on over here and fite!

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:22 (nine years ago) Permalink

Would like to read Ted Gioia book, but do not want to prove his brother's theory.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:28 (nine years ago) Permalink

i know, he was preemptive with the manhole jokes

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:30 (nine years ago) Permalink

Lot's of people seemed to have played at that club. I'm sure they are going to have five hours of Roy Haynes playing there tonight on WKCR. But wasn't it spelt the Mannhole?

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:32 (nine years ago) Permalink

Looks like it was "Shelly's Manne-hole."

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:34 (nine years ago) Permalink

love this album. sonny making the west coast dudes work for a living.

http://jazzvo.blog.ocn.ne.jp/photos/uncategorized/2008/02/01/the_contemporary_leaders.jpg

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:42 (nine years ago) Permalink

yeah a lot of dudes were up in shelly's manne-hole.

xp

― Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, January 14, 2009 1:46 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:43 (nine years ago) Permalink

OK, now I see what you were trying to say.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:47 (nine years ago) Permalink

if you can find them - are they in print? - the Black California two volume anthology that savoy put out is friggin' GREAT if you like awesome and swingin' 40's/50's stuff. wardell gray, wild bill moore, slim gaillard, kenny clarke, etc. (um, not "cool" jazz, just great jazz.) (all the bands where dexter and chico and sonny criss and others cut their teeth.)

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c584/c58424888is.jpg

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 20:49 (nine years ago) Permalink

listened to this tonight. one of my fave we're all in the same gang east coast/west coast jams:

http://www.jazz.com/assets/2008/1/4/albumcoverArtPepperMeetsTheRhythmSection.jpg

scott seward, Wednesday, 14 January 2009 23:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

when white dudes had cool names like art pepper

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 23:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

ZOOT SIMS

hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 23:07 (nine years ago) Permalink

That Art Pepper record has a great version of "Tin Tin Deo." I think Art claimed in Straight Life that he hadn't picked up his horn in two years prior to making that record but somebody later debunked that.

ilx chilton (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 January 2009 23:26 (nine years ago) Permalink

the west coast cool vibe thing was it's own thing and it could be very cool indeed. i like a lot of that stuff. not so much the desmondbrubecktjader stuff though. i have very little time for dave brubeck. blah.

― scott seward, Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:21 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

I don't think they deserve to be lumped together. I think Desmond is a way more legit and enjoyable musician than Brubeck. I mean Time Out is an undeniable record, but it's largely because of Desmond and Morello, and also it just SOUNDS so fucking good. I get frothy at the mouth when people swoon over Brubeck as though he's god's gift to jazz, but I'm more mad at people's tin ears and (I think) latent racism than I am at Brubeck. But he's just such a terrible, stiff pianist -- painful to listen to at times.

Cal Tjader is just fun. I have no complaints about him.

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Thursday, 15 January 2009 00:35 (nine years ago) Permalink

i just got smack up by art pepper on vinyl

a superb album

not all that "cool" though

ie: BANGING (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 15 January 2009 00:36 (nine years ago) Permalink

i wasn't really slamming tjader and desmond as musicians. it's just that that end of things is so ubiquitous in my thrift shop world, so i blame them for their ubiquitousness. i blame it on the bossa nova.

i don't think i've ever heard anyone swoon over brubeck before! thank god. i'd hit them over the head and give them a bill evans record or something if i did.

scott seward, Thursday, 15 January 2009 00:39 (nine years ago) Permalink

i do hold onto a copy of brubeck's gates of justice for novelty value.

scott seward, Thursday, 15 January 2009 00:44 (nine years ago) Permalink

Time for a new screen name.

lemmy tristano (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 January 2009 02:17 (nine years ago) Permalink

five months pass...

SOOOO into Shorty Rogers right now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_SvhoMokI8

PappaWheelie V, Friday, 10 July 2009 03:30 (nine years ago) Permalink

just got this book in the mail

http://www.ocma.net/img/413_Birth-of-the-Cool-Cover.JPG

it has a big chapter on the aesthetic of cool / west coast jazz album covers, maybe i'll post a couple of tidbits if it's any good

moonship journey to baja, Friday, 10 July 2009 03:46 (nine years ago) Permalink

eight months pass...

why the fuck can't I find any substantial big band cool from 1952?!

you can beat my box any time (PappaWheelie V), Friday, 26 March 2010 15:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

let's see, mulligan left the miles cool sessions to work on the chubby jackson big band later in 1950, then created the new stars in 1951.

shorty rogers did his superb "modern sounds" sides in 1951.

1953 had shorty's giants, wild one sdtk, stan kenton's "New Concepts of Artistry in Rhythm", Gene Norman's commision of the Gerry Mulligan Tentet, and multiple projects by The Dave Pell Octet. Hell, even Clifford Brown had a nonet that year, and Tadd Dameron was still doing his "big ten" thing that ran alongside Miles' initial project.

Ceratinly SOMETHING was recorded in this vein in 1952.

you can beat my box any time (PappaWheelie V), Friday, 26 March 2010 15:30 (eight years ago) Permalink

six years pass...

is Gerry Mulligan worth investigating

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 18:12 (two years ago) Permalink

He arranged most of Birth of the Cool, so I'd say yes. Try a couple albums out!

bamcquern, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 18:56 (two years ago) Permalink

that '59 album he did with Ben Webster is definitely worth investigating, not heard much else.

calzino, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 19:06 (two years ago) Permalink

yeah primarily curious about the Baker stuff

he doesn't seem to get much respect these days

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 19:10 (two years ago) Permalink

two years pass...

https://londonjazzcollector.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/mg_3476.jpg
this one is an absolute gem imo

calzino, Sunday, 8 July 2018 20:53 (four months ago) Permalink


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