"Smells Like Teen Spirit" - Classic Or Dud?

oh, sure, if it's on the radio, i'll do some mock-rocking out with the quiet-to-LOUD part (just where did they discover *that* particular dynamic?) but that's only if there's someone else in the car and i can amuse them. as far as i'm concerned, the opening is the litmus test: it either grabs you or it doesn't. it's a nice touch going from the acoustic strum to the plugged-in BURST -- credit for the dynamics, again -- but that's all it is for me, and all nirvana has *ever* been for me: the pixies sans the fun.

About whether the song still holds up, I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I mean, I get nostalgic when I hear a fucking BUSH song on the radio these days. I don't own Nevermind anymore, I only have "Lounge Act" on mp3, but everytime "Smells Like Teen Spirit" comes on the radio I turn it up. It's probably like whatever "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" was to my dad, which is kind of pathetic. But my question is, if "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" of its generation, does that make "Baby, One More Time" the "Sugar, Sugar" of its generation?

And by the way, how much *fun* were the Pixies? When I think fun music, I think something like Wilson Pickett, or Basement Jaxx, not "Where is My Mind", or even the goofy surf instrumentals.

as far as fun music goes, sure, the pixies aren't clarence carter or abba, but listen to "debaser" and tell me that's not the sound of a band having a good time.

josh: sorry, i didn't know you were so sensitive, but you do like indie, so i should've known better. anyhow, the pixies comparison became force of habit because it's true, mainly. kurt cobain calling "smells like teen spirit" a pixies rip only helped things.

Anyhow, I think that if you liked the song then, you'll like it now. If you hated the song then, you'll hate it now. I'd sooner listen to Jeremy than Smells Like Teen Spirit, but that's me. As for Tom's actual questions:

1) It never actually worked for me, as I said, but I'll consider it a museum piece for a period in history upon which chart music was at its lowest point ever, and a band like Nirvana could actually have a hit.

2) It never had anything to tell us. It's a fairly nonsensical song sung in a mush mouth fashion.

There ya go. Your mileage may vary.

What none of you have brought up is how fucking godhead Leif Garrett is singing the song on the last Melvins album. I can play it alongside "I Was Made For Dancing" and it stands up fine, and that's all you can ask of a song.

Anyhow, Josh: The question was not "What does Nirvana's fans and their response tell us anymore?", it was what does the song tell us. It was never a song about anything. It is, of course, much like how the Smiths are supposedly about being depressed and ridiculous, yet I find their songs funny and I bet Morrissey does too. I don't think Kurt Cobain was trying to tell us anything; I think he was trying to make a headbangers song. Which he succeeded to do. The only reason it "means" anything today besides the fact that it marked a successful headbangers song is because the man is dead. Cf Double Fantasy.

Any meaning which can be garnered from the song which is outside the lyrics is wholly personal. Indeed the majority of meaning from most songs garnered from the lyrics is pretty much personal too. We're reading outside the text after all.

Nevertheless - that intro. Those quiet bits. Those noisy bits. Its Moshpit 101 and should be praised for that.

ANYTHING to do with culture will invariably be interepreted a million different ways by a million different people and you trying to attach a hard and fast, cut and dry, black and white universal "cultural meaning" to the way Smells Like Teen Spirit sounds isn't going to win any debate.

If it means something to you, fan-fuckin-tastic. It doesn't to me, as I come from a completely different background. Got it? Good. End of semi-rant.

Re: my own feelings. After having heard about it for a bit, I was introduced to it at KLA in UCLA mid-September 1991. Thought it was all right. Grew on me more with time, but not being a huge Pixies fan at that point either I didn't have an opinion on that subject. If anything I was bemused by the Police comparisons. Which are sort of accurate.

I think Kris' description suits it best. Very much an of-a-time of-a-place it-is-everywhere phenomenon that effortlessly calls back said time upon initial hearing. Haven't bothered playing it, that album or anything by them in years. The kid on the cover is what, ten now?

What could those "better moments" in the winter of 1991 have possibly meant to a fifteen year old suburban kid for whom the nearest EIGHTEEN AND OVER club was 30 miles away? Other than in urban areas with lots of twentysomethings (a demographic which in this country hardly even existed before dot-communism), it's hardly a mystery why thump thump knob- twiddle never had much currency to us, other than the arena friendly bits (and I mean sports arenas, not rock arenas). Moshing IS a kind of dancing; Nirvana WAS a new thing insofar as now any kid who wanted to be a punk or a metalhead could be one without picking up a skateboard or lighting a joint, they just had to buy the CD. The sound was tremendously empowering in that way, something hardcore techno (or early post rock, or whatever you're referring to) could NEVER have been to us, even if there was a way for us to hear any of it. Again, I sound like R Meltzer describing the fucking Beatles, so I'll just stop.

Around 2 years ago, Mary-Ann-Hobbes on her Radio 1 Breezeblock show played Smells Like Teen Spirit (this was when it still went out fairly early and had more listeners that now), and was inundated for the remainder of the show from people desperate to find out what this tune was, and when it was coming out.

Apparently that night they had the most calls and email they have ever received.

i was a 12-year-old rock critic zeppelin/doors/hendrix fan who thought rock was dead. i mean, r.e.m. was fine and dandy in a beatles way but they didn't really *rock.* and i'd seen punk and alternative rock and commercial industrial music on citylimits, the muchmusic alternative show, but who really listened to that? (smart, arty, and unhappy college students who wore black, from what tv told me.) some of it may have grown on me with more regular exposure. (i didn't really have disposable income or parents willing to buy pop albums).

i'd already read the glowing reviews of _nevermind_ and was eager to hear it. when i heard "teen spirit" on the local rock station it seemed like rock was really renewed: something genuinely fresh was here with as much raw emotion as any classic stuff. i dubbed the album from a friend and liked it quite a bit for a while. it seemed burned-out and bummed in a way none of my dubbed albums were. guitar teachers despised them.

it didn't take too long -- soon after everyone else liked them actually -- before i turned against them for lacking musical depth (i'm still not sure how much of this was motivated by musical snobbery and how much by genuine boredom -- a bit of both, i think). i hung onto my soundgarden tape in an unfortunately reactionary move. i know i still felt something when i heard the nirvana songs on the radio.

3 years later, after i'd been listening to college radio and had got into the sex pistols and sonic youth and had turned against zeppelin for being bloated etc (and was at a more appropriately angsty age), the _unplugged_ videos started playing and seemed immediately evocative and touching. i got _in utero_ and _unplugged_ for christmas and they remained among my most played albums for at least a year.

maybe 4 years after that, i picked up a used cassette copy of _nevermind_. i liked it in a sad-pop way for a while.

now: _nevermind_ is ok. i listen to it now and then. my main issue is the production, which really weakens it. with better production, actually, it could possibly be as good or better than _in utero_. its strengths are melody and lyrics. i agree the "teen spirit" (or other) lyrics aren't that obscure. i thought the "mulatto" and "albino" bits are about not fitting in and standing out in an obvious way. "teen spirit" is a decent tune. boston stole the riff from "louie louie." _in utero_ and _unplugged_ are still powerful.

Sometimes, I believe that I'm the only person in the world that's ever hated Nirvana.....oh well. Grunge was a load of old bollocks. Oh, he's dead. That wasn't very responible!

So I think this song could be considered as a classic. but nirvana isn't.

Ludo

apparently the guy kept the drums, *re-recorded the guitar parts*, and then pitch-shifted the vocals to match

i am not the guy fwiw. i got that from another board

word

was really weird when Foo Fighters performed the Never Gonna Give You Up/Teen Spirit mash-up with Astley a few times last year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdkCEioCp24

Slow start to the year, it seems!

BTW, I'm 14 and I've only recently become a Nirvana fan (and no, it wasn't because of YKYR :P). It's safe to say that Nirvana hasn't lost any meaning over the years.

going "awwww" at this classic crut post

re: Cicieraga, I strongly considered nominating "T.I.M.E." in the tracks poll

wow, that Jump/Imagine is spectacular!!

Ghrol makes this song what it is

I don't know where this BS line started that Grohl was inspired by the Gap Band's "Early in the Morning, but given that "Teen Spirit" already bears a passing minor key resemblance to "More Than a Feeling," check out the drum fill leading in to the final chorus, around 2:45:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufQUxoidxkM

It came from Grohl himself in an interview he did with Pharrell where he cited Funk licks/beats/rolls he used on Nevermind.

Faking the funk! J'accuse!

Yeah, he's full of shit, lol.

That album is exceptionally not funky, and drum intro to Teen Spirit sounds nothing like the Gap Band. But it does sound like that bit in More Than a Feeling, which the rest of the song sounds like, too. Possibly mature Grohl is guilty of a little revisionism.

Stubblefield...Ferrone...Grohl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZCrdSC2-1I

Opened this up and was reminded of "Teen Sprite" from a few years ago. The original link above was taken down, and it's a little harder to find now--it's on YouTube under the name "Nirvirna." It's probably impossible to erase anything permanently, someone will always be around to re-post, but if you've never heard it, there does seem to be some effort to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX24A6sSR8s

I agree I don't hear it on "Early In The Morning" but 100% hear it on the opening of "Burn Rubber On Me" fwiw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmcncGirAU4

I don't hear it, it lacks that bass drum syncopation, which the Boston fill has.

xpost A few years ago there were a whole bunch of major key versions of minor key songs posted. I seem to recall the major key Losing My Religion was pretty good.

this will always be the definitive version for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRdc0OxUmYg

Oh.

I remember Tom Scholz being sore about the similarities. I heard a radio interview before a Boston concert in the mid-'90s and he and/or Delp bitching about doing "The Nirvana Song" onstage.

xp (Fun fact: the tires screeching before the drum intro is sampled for the instrumental chorus of NWA's "Straight Outta Compton")

I don’t hear any fill at 2:45 in the Boston song?

Agree with Steve it totally sounds like the opening of the gap band jam and it’s used In exactly the same way

I think he meant 3:45

Yeah, sorry. Toward the end.

Dave Grohl got me reeling
When ripped off "More Than Feeling"

AMANDA

The drums definitely enter "Teen Spirit" the same sort of way they enter those Gap Band tracks, but come on, there is no way Grohl was thinking Gap Band, Cameo and Chic when he was recording "Nevermind." At, what, age 22? With his punk background? Nah. But old man Grohl now, friend to everyone, lover of all music, sure. He probably wanted to seem hip to Pharrell.

Reminds me of some making of "Murmur" thing I read years ago (I don't think it was Niimi's book) where they were talking about the supposedly "anything goes" recording, trying everything, including sliding in James Brown samples. Come on, no they weren't.

I read the early circa 2000 posts above. So much hate for this song/band!

Like, show us on the doll where the Anarchy cheerleader touched you...

my god I remember that pixies talking point it was used all the time as if it was the last word on nirvana as a band. they sound nothing alike! not even on SLTS except for some of the basic dynamics. it seems like people were just repeating something cobain said once as an excuse to flex their indie cred (and it worked in that it made me feel totally basic for liking nirvana more). the best legacy of the pixies reunion is that it totally killed the mystique that made them such a trump card in these games

anyway isn't everyone who does the quiet/loud thing just ripping off haydn?

fwiw as a 15 year old when Smells Like Teen Spirit came out, I saw the video on MTV in the school common room, knew nothing about them, and thought "I like this it sounds a bit like a heavier version of the Pixies".

I didn't have a lot of other points of reference for indie rock/punk stuff at the time mind you. I'd bought Doolittle a few months prior to this and was listening to it constantly.

I can hear it if I squint but they seem very different to me probably because my introduction to nirvana was more like "this is like a better version of nickelback". discovering the pixies later was on was like getting inducted into the cool kids gang. but nirvana was for everyone

this song is OK

there's a pretty clear line from "gigantic" to a lot of nirvana, not much else though

ok I was wrong they're not nothing alike and I guess I hear a lot of kim deal in nirvana's bass parts too (and those of so many other bands since then)

getting into 80s-90s alt/indie rock all at once after the fact makes it harder to know how the parts fit together than if you grew up with it

I have no interest in Nirvana, but this was a great song on a great album and that should be the final word, and no they don’t sound like the Pixies

nobody said they were a one-to-one match, that’s not how influence works

Besides a few of the other hallmarks - the screaming, the stark dynamics - I find it odd that the most blatant Pixies identifier is ... 8th note bass lines? That's really it, isn't it, the bass? Whether it's "Teen Spirit" or Sugar's "A Good Idea," if you want to sound like the Pixies, you play ... a straight forward bass part. But there have to be antecedents to something so simple, right?

speaking of antecedents whenever i hear that driving downbeat snare drum pattern (like in the gap band song) i think motown

The drums definitely enter "Teen Spirit" the same sort of way they enter those Gap Band tracks, but come on, there is no way Grohl was thinking Gap Band, Cameo and Chic when he was recording "Nevermind." At, what, age 22? With his punk background? Nah. But old man Grohl now, friend to everyone, lover of all music, sure. He probably wanted to seem hip to Pharrell.

Reminds me of some making of "Murmur" thing I read years ago (I don't think it was Niimi's book) where they were talking about the supposedly "anything goes" recording, trying everything, including sliding in James Brown samples. Come on, no they weren't.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, November 13, 2023 7:48 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Why is there “no way”? That stuff was on radio. It was a big sound at the time. He may have even done it subconsciously and looked back and been like oh damn that’s where I got that. Idk, the Boston thing is similar but it’s *kurt* who was inspired by Boston

yeah I don't see why Gap Band, etc. wouldn't have been on Grohl's musical diet. I still remember 30 years ago when it astounded some people to learn that "More Than a Feeling" inspired (in part) SLTS -- was he too punk for it or something?

IME drummers have always been drum nerds who like weird drum music, so the Grohl/Gap connection sounds v plausible

I mean, nothing is impossible. "Nevermind" was recorded in, what, 1991? When "Early in the Morning" was a hit he was 13, and by his own account a full-on punk rocker. So sure, it's *possible*, he just seems like a dude that listened to Boston on purpose but maybe only heard the Gap Band in passing; definitely he and Kurt heard the Boston song a million times whether they wanted to or not. I do think he might have heard "(Not Just) Knee Deep" by way of De La, though; it has a similar drum intro. But none of these funky examples feature the bass drum syncopation that the Boston and Nirvana songs have, and "Teen Spirt" already sounds a bit like "More Than a Feeling."

Here's a clip of Grohl playing a vintage TCB/Junkyard Band-style bounce-beat on RDGLDGRN studio sessions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FuatudrCjA

(time stamp 1m28s)

Definitely Grohl, like a lot of DC punk dudes (like MacKaye and Rollins), was apparently into go-go:

"As I was walking down the street, a car drives by, and go-go's blaring out of it. That's how you know that you're in Washington, D.C., because it doesn't even really stretch to Baltimore, or Richmond. It is Washington, D.C. Now, New Orleans has jazz, right? Chicago's got the blues. D.C. (has) go-go music, which is like a funk-based music that was started in the early '70s, pioneered by this guy Chuck Brown. It sort of evolved into this huge local scene. When I was a kid, growing up (in Washington, D.C.), you'd get three or four go-go bands to play together: Trouble Funk, Junk Yard, Rare Essence — put 'em all together, you had a good, like, 30,000 people. You know, that doesn't happen anywhere else. I was always really proud that wherever — when I started touring as a young musician, I'd go to Europe and I'd say to people, 'have you heard go-go?' They'd say, 'what's go-go music?' And I'd play 'em Trouble Funk."

Tbf, the clip of him talking about the Gap Band, it's not really laid out as an influence on "Teen Spirit" specifically, just the album generally, which is more plausible (to me). He calls it the "disco flam." The doc does insert a clip of "Teen Spirit," but those big snare flams are all over the record, for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZCrdSC2-1I

Most of these references rested somewhere within their collective patchwork after 15+ years of active and passive listening. At the very least these "unusual" choices were indirectly influencing the arrangements. Seems weird that Grohl would be bullshitting even if he just meant it was something he realized later. Just the same, Cobain did not actively cite Boston. In fact he probably would have thrown away the song pretty quickly if he was aware early enough.

I could believe that Grohl only realized later where those influences came from, that makes the most sense.

Wasn't the story that Cobain almost tossed the song because it sounded too close to the Pixies? That may have been BS as well, just like Bob Mould claiming he didn't notice the similarities between "A Good Idea" and "Debaser" until much later. Sure, Bob; the song works better as an homage than it does as a false modesty stumble into brilliance.

For sure Cobain knew "More Than a Feeling," so it would be surprising to me if he didn't notice the (admittedly fleeting) resemblance. "Teen Spirit" bears more of a resemblance to the Pixies than it does Boston, but it only barely sounds like Pixies, either.

This is my fave "Teen Spirit" clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeb5LdAyLC8

My college radio station was chosen to debut SLTS to the world and while the 12" was delivered in a white label, Kurt drew what the proposed artwork concept for Nevermind would be on a mailer:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzKB3pjysa2/

Glad they didn’t go w the “H!tl3r Baby” concept.

For sure Cobain knew "More Than a Feeling," so it would be surprising to me if he didn't notice the (admittedly fleeting) resemblance. "Teen Spirit" bears more of a resemblance to the Pixies than it does Boston, but it only barely sounds like Pixies, either.

they lampshaded the resemblance at reading '92

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3XIGon2RjY