TEARS FOR FEARS - SONGS FROM THE BIG CHAIR (1985) POLL

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I have been known to lose my mind over this album at times. Though I don't think about it for a few years before I come back to it again. At the time it came out it was a disappointment for me, when "Shout" as a single seemed to promise so much. But over the years I have come to understand all its little nuances, even the gorgeous song dedicated to Robert Wyatt. It's a classic album in the sense that I will always return to it every few years, for reasons unknown to me.

Poll Results

OptionVotes
7. Head Over Heels/Broken (live) 21
3. Everybody Wants To Rule The World 11
1. Shout 3
2. The Working Hour 2
8. Listen2
4. Mothers Talk 0
5. I Believe 0
6. Broken 0


Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 9 August 2008 08:29 (eleven years ago) link

See, I knew the photo I tried to post would fuck up. I knew it.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 9 August 2008 08:31 (eleven years ago) link

Hahahahhahahhahah you know me too well Mr. Yuro!

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 9 August 2008 09:07 (eleven years ago) link

Ok I'm gonna have to revisit this one. I think I was pretty overwhelmed by it in my naive youth. Perhaps I had a relatively sheltered musical upbringing but I seem to recall thinking it was the one of most bombastic and detailed things I had ever heard. Now I can't even remember half of the tracks.

ledge, Saturday, 9 August 2008 13:17 (eleven years ago) link

I only bought this a couple of years, although, of course, I grew up with the the four singles. Some of the album tracks are surprising: the Bo Diddley-beat interlude in "The Working Hour," fer instance. Still voted for "Head Over Heels" over "Everybody Wants to Rule The World." That chorus! The opening keyboards!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 9 August 2008 13:27 (eleven years ago) link

Alfred posted. OMG, I'm saved. If I could just find that libcrypt, though.

Alfred, I still remember Twist of Fate, though, I do still have that. Also I'm very close downloading this Daryl Hall album...whatever that is they mentioned on the Eno thread. I've almost got all of that, now.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 9 August 2008 13:42 (eleven years ago) link

I just relistened to it, after 20-odd years, and I'm afraid I was unimpressed. Another childhood illusion shattered. Shout and Everybody and Head over Heels are still great 80s pop songs - still get a shiver from the intro of the latter - but the rest is distinctly self-indulgent. Mothers Talk is just a bit of a mess, Broken really does sound like the work of someone with an over-inflated ego (and why the live reprise at the end of Head over Heels?), and Listen was just embarrassing.

ledge, Saturday, 9 August 2008 14:05 (eleven years ago) link

Took me years to realize 'The Hurting' is a better record. I'll vote 'Head over Heels' here, if not for the cheesy library video alone.

BlackIronPrison, Saturday, 9 August 2008 15:57 (eleven years ago) link

"The Hurting" is way better IMO. My pick here is "Head Over Heels", just ahead of the two more famous hits.

Geir Hongro, Saturday, 9 August 2008 16:37 (eleven years ago) link

I have no idea If I'm picking Head Over Heels or Shout here. I love both songs so much for very different reasons.

HI DERE, Saturday, 9 August 2008 16:42 (eleven years ago) link

"Head Over Heels" and "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" are so great.

Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 9 August 2008 17:39 (eleven years ago) link

Head Over Heels

Tape Store, Saturday, 9 August 2008 17:48 (eleven years ago) link

EWTRTW over HOH

Eric H., Saturday, 9 August 2008 19:16 (eleven years ago) link

EWTRTW slightly over Shout. Both great pop songs. Head Over Heels is good, too (not as good as the Go-Go's song of the same name, but good). The rest, meh.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 9 August 2008 19:35 (eleven years ago) link

obviously yes the hurting is the better album (it's the only great album they ever made actually) but this is pretty classic in another way altogether, in the sense that 'so' was classic and lots of other 80's albums were; they were kind of challenging and HUGELY popular. anyway "head over heels" gets my vote since I was in a lip synch competition at school in sixth grade (maybe seventh?) and we did this.

akm, Saturday, 9 August 2008 20:53 (eleven years ago) link

SHOUT = so very clearly an influence on ...MASSES era depeche it hurts. especially NEVER LET ME DOWN AGAIN.

piscesx, Saturday, 9 August 2008 21:40 (eleven years ago) link

Everybody Wants To Rule The World never loses its magic. Ever. I don't know why.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 9 August 2008 21:47 (eleven years ago) link

Listen

Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 9 August 2008 22:55 (eleven years ago) link

No way is this album any worse than The Hurting. They never made one remotely perfect album, and, anyway, they were made for arena synth-pop, not the miserabilist kind.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 9 August 2008 22:59 (eleven years ago) link

Yeah fucking Hurting. I should bloody well listen to that one again. I've got it right here on my iPod.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 9 August 2008 23:23 (eleven years ago) link

Also fucking Curtis is right. I still don't have the Chameleons Tony Fletcher CD ripped, but never mind.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 9 August 2008 23:25 (eleven years ago) link

The Working Hour has always been a personal favorite. What a great record.

soundofair, Sunday, 10 August 2008 00:06 (eleven years ago) link

This thread seem to die a little early (and I admit I got pretty off topic, but damn that Timi Yuro didn't help matters :)) so I'm gonna give it a bump to help it out a little.

Bimble, Friday, 15 August 2008 16:51 (eleven years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

ILX System, Friday, 15 August 2008 23:01 (eleven years ago) link

Still voted for "Head Over Heels" over "Everybody Wants to Rule The World." That chorus! The opening keyboards!

Alfred remains my proxy in all things.

rogermexico., Friday, 15 August 2008 23:21 (eleven years ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ILX System, Saturday, 16 August 2008 23:01 (eleven years ago) link

Woohooahh! Head Over Heels nearly in a landslide! I didn't see that one coming at all! Twice as much as Everybody...wow. ILMers have spoken. I love it.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 16 August 2008 23:04 (eleven years ago) link

Surprising but nice.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 18 August 2008 21:18 (eleven years ago) link

Now I hope "The Hurting" is next up?

Geir Hongro, Monday, 18 August 2008 21:18 (eleven years ago) link

eight months pass...

More Goth Than Your Grandmother (Bimble), Monday, 11 May 2009 01:29 (ten years ago) link

SHOUT = so very clearly an influence on ...MASSES era depeche it hurts. especially NEVER LET ME DOWN AGAIN.

yah both are produced by david bascombe. dm used him for "masses" because they loved his worok on "big chair" (i think they said as much in reissue notes)

QE II, Monday, 11 May 2009 18:23 (ten years ago) link

Which was quite pointless, as Depeche Mode had always been much better than Tears For Fears. Even when Tears For Fears were at their very best, as on "The Hurting" (which is a much better album than "Songs From The Big Chair"). Frankly, Depeche Mode might have benefited musically from continuing to have Daniel Miller as their producer on every album. They have been great afterwards too (partly except for "Songs Of Faith And Devotion" and "Music From The Masses" - their two least synthpop'y albums), but not as great as they were in the Daniel Miller era during the 80s.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 11 May 2009 22:50 (ten years ago) link

one year passes...

in fact 5:07 into 'mother's talk' sounds *just like* the intro to 'never let me down again'. i'm starting to realise how our man Bascombe was much more massively key to the succes of DM The American Arena Years. the drum machines on Big Chair are basically *the same ones* as on Music For The Masses.

piscesx, Saturday, 25 September 2010 04:34 (nine years ago) link

How do I know I didn't vote in this poll?
6. Broken – 0

Mormons come out of the sky and they stand there (Abbbottt), Saturday, 25 September 2010 04:51 (nine years ago) link

Between the searching and the need to work it out
I stopped believing everything will be alright

Mormons come out of the sky and they stand there (Abbbottt), Saturday, 25 September 2010 04:54 (nine years ago) link

I love the crazy fucking siren guitar, too! The whole song sounds like a really polite & clean mental breakdown.

Mormons come out of the sky and they stand there (Abbbottt), Saturday, 25 September 2010 04:55 (nine years ago) link

And in that way I see the song as an extension of their stuff on "The Hurting" moreso than any other song on this album though.

This album is fucking great BTW! I love both of them all the way through.

Mormons come out of the sky and they stand there (Abbbottt), Saturday, 25 September 2010 04:57 (nine years ago) link

Save The Robot once wrote that Donnie Darko makes Head Over Heels seem like the greatest song of the 80s.

I remember being taunted by a guy on my Little League team when I told him my sister had bought this record for me for my birthday. Can't remember what he said exactly but it was something along the lines of "faggot shit." Mind you, we were twelve...

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 25 September 2010 13:04 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

If I'd voted in this poll when it happened, I more than likely would have voted 'The Working Hour'. Listening to it right this very moment, however, 'I Believe' is really really doing it for me.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, 16 September 2012 22:10 (seven years ago) link

"The Working Hour" is a really odd track for a big-selling album, don't you think?

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 16 September 2012 22:21 (seven years ago) link

It's always been a huge favourite of mine... the way it introduces itself with the saxophone and keyboards, then the programmed rhythm arrives and that big, powerful sounding piano.

You're kinda right in a way, for a big selling album this really only has three obvious singles on it: 'Shout', 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' and 'Head Over Heels', although I think 'Head Over Heels' loses something when taken in isolation, and it's best heard as part of the 'Broken'/'Head Over Heels'/'Broken (Live)' suite on the album.

'Mothers Talk' and 'I Believe' were both released as singles, and even though I like 'Mothers Talk' (that BIG drum sound) and I *LOVE* 'I Believe', I wouldn't have had either down as contenders to be released as singles. 'Broken' and 'Listen' could never have been singles in a million years.

The best parts of 'The Working Hour' for me are the build in the intro and the sheer power of the "find out... find out..." outro, rather than the actual SONG itself. I feel that editing it down would have proved to be a bit of a headache, and it would have been necessary to do so if they were going to put it out as a single. I definitely think it would lose something if those parts were fucked with in any way!!

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, 16 September 2012 22:46 (seven years ago) link

In fact, I think I remember a review of a reissue of Songs From The Big Chair which described 'The Working Hour' as "over-inflated rot"... christ, no! Every single part of that song has a purpose!

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Sunday, 16 September 2012 22:49 (seven years ago) link

Agreed. Even better, I had the UK cassette which had a bunch of bonus tracks including this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4G6XYm8hoc

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 16 September 2012 23:50 (seven years ago) link

Thanks for that, I hadn't heard that version before! :D

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 17 September 2012 00:30 (seven years ago) link

The part of "The Working Hour" where the band does the Bo Diddley riff/rhythm = wow.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 September 2012 01:03 (seven years ago) link

"Working Hour" might seem an outlier, but it underscores the innate proggy-ness of a lot of this stuff. If anything, it's a much better job of prog as pop than anything Genesis did in the '80s, save perhaps bits of "Invisible Touch." ("Broken" is a total "Invisible Touch" song.) I remember reading an interview with the drummer on this, Manny Elias, and he readily admitted copping all sorts of Collins stuff.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 17 September 2012 01:34 (seven years ago) link

Everybody Wants To Rule The World is one of the greatest singles of all time

Master of Treacle, Monday, 17 September 2012 21:48 (seven years ago) link

sad but not surprised that nobody voted for Mothers Talk. the three singles really do tower over this album, even though MT, The Working Hour, and I Believe are all fantastic too

― paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:12 PM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Mothers Talk' was a single! 'I Believe' was released as a single, too.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Sunday, 5 August 2018 07:46 (one year ago) link

right, but I Believe was never released in the US and Mothers' Talk was a moderate hit, while the three big songs spent weeks upon weeks in the top 5 (or at #1 in the case of Shout and Everybody Wants to Rule the World)

ant banks and wasp (voodoo chili), Sunday, 5 August 2018 12:41 (one year ago) link

i'm sure i voted for 'head over heels' and would probably do so again, but man 'everybody wants to rule the world' is just perfect

Same.

I Never Promised You A Hose Harden (Eric H.), Sunday, 5 August 2018 13:53 (one year ago) link

^^yes

brimstead, Sunday, 5 August 2018 16:38 (one year ago) link

two months pass...

This is fun...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsjhSm4YCfw

MaresNest, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 20:48 (one year ago) link

thanks, i enjoyed the hell out of that.

Hunt3r, Tuesday, 30 October 2018 21:13 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

Bbc Classic Albums documentary this Friday! First new episode of Classic Albums for a while.

https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/tears-for-fears-celebrate-35-years-of-songs-with-classic-album-doc/

piscesx, Monday, 10 February 2020 23:55 (two weeks ago) link

^ Will have to find that somewhere.

Sometimes this seems like the best record I liked as a 9-year-old. The tracks receiving no votes definitely feel like the least best, but I dig them all.

Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 00:55 (two weeks ago) link

I'm old enough to remember when this came out. "Shout" was the first single and it sounded very cool to me at the time, not like anything else on the radio. Nowadays I'd go for "Everyone Wants to Rule the World", which has somehow managed not to become overplayed.

o. nate, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 01:15 (two weeks ago) link

All of the singles on this album rank among the best songs ever written.

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 14:26 (two weeks ago) link

I like everything on this album, and especially in context. Never have a problem just throwing it on start to finish.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 14:47 (two weeks ago) link

DJP extremely OTM

brimstead, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 18:57 (two weeks ago) link

sometimes i think Head Over Heels is the absolute pinnacle of '80s new wave pop music

omar little, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 19:01 (two weeks ago) link

Listen is almost 7 minutes long and still seems far too short

doug watson, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:19 (two weeks ago) link

Really, the entire second side of this album is perfect

doug watson, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:29 (two weeks ago) link

"Shout" was the first single and it sounded very cool to me at the time, not like anything else on the radio. Nowadays I'd go for "Everyone Wants to Rule the World", which has somehow managed not to become overplayed.

My experience is the opposite - "EWTRTW" is way way overplayed and "Shout" still retains its primal power.

Also note that "Mothers Talk" was the first single released in August 1984 and it caused a sensation at my college radio station. TFF were still quite underground in the US at the time, I viewed their stadium climb with bemusement.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:36 (two weeks ago) link

I remember them suddenly bursting fully-formed into the US pop scene with "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" and knowing they had a previous album but not knowing much about it at the time; decades later, when I went back to The Hurting, I discovered I already knew half the songs on it (I have conscious memory of my first encounter with "Mad World" but I knew "Pale Shelter" and "Change" almost by heart and never knew they were Tears For Fears songs until some time in the 00s, the first time I played the album).

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:40 (two weeks ago) link

Then it got that single remix in spring 1986.

xpost

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:40 (two weeks ago) link

I don't think I knew they had a previous album until I saw some live broadcast of a Knebworth concert, when they played "Change."

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:47 (two weeks ago) link

When the album hit "Change" I actually shouted "WAIT THAT WAS THEM??? I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS SONG FOR YEARS"

totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:48 (two weeks ago) link

I place SFTBC in the category of Big British Summer Crossover Album, as [Dare/i] did in 1982 and So would in 1986

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 20:50 (two weeks ago) link

I enjoyed that, it really is one of the most 'classic album-y' docs I've seen for a while, it has nearly all the hallmarks.

Maresn3st, Tuesday, 18 February 2020 19:57 (one week ago) link

What a wonderful documentary. I'm not sure what it did differently from many of the others, but at least tonight it felt like one of the better ones. Not just nuts and bolts and pulling away the curtain, but telling a good story. And I never would have guessed that the album was so influenced by Talking Heads, let alone Ryuichi Sakamoto or Robert Wyatt. And never knew (or noticed) that Chris Hughes was "Merrick," the drummer/producer for Adam and the Ants. Good (er) talking heads, too. Sylvie Simmons and even the dude from Disturbed.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 04:59 (one week ago) link

aaaaa i NEED to SEE this

american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 20 February 2020 05:05 (one week ago) link

It can be found easily if you f/w torrents

Maresn3st, Thursday, 20 February 2020 14:35 (one week ago) link

I was thinking wow Roland Beelzebub is looking quite old all of a sudden then a friend pointed out that he lost his wife suddenly a couple of years ago, poor guy :(

Maresn3st, Thursday, 20 February 2020 14:37 (one week ago) link

thank u for putting me on the path maresnest

american bradass (BradNelson), Thursday, 20 February 2020 14:44 (one week ago) link

it's on YouTube.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 14:46 (one week ago) link

watching now while air drumming to "The Working Hour."

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 14:46 (one week ago) link

No mention of The Way You Are, oddly, a very definite nod to Japan and stepping stone between the first two records, perhaps they just didn't have time to fit it in.

Maresn3st, Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:07 (one week ago) link

boy, Roland and Curt always boasted regrettable hair, eh

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:11 (one week ago) link

they were among the few 80s stars who had even worse hair in the 00s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Z1zZkSpQk

ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:18 (one week ago) link

I never would have guessed that the album was so influenced by Talking Heads, let alone Ryuichi Sakamoto or Robert Wyatt

'i believe' proudly wears the wyatt influence on its sleeves imo.

ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:20 (one week ago) link

omigod just heard Oleta Adams' live version of "I Believe."

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:24 (one week ago) link

I never get tired of the Oleta Adams story. Just think about that, a huge pop band hears a singer in a lounge in Kansas, then has her not only sing lead on the first song on the next album, but more or less get a solo showcase to open the subsequent tour.

'i believe' proudly wears the wyatt influence on its sleeves imo.

Absolutely. I just never made the connection, honestly, given I always listened to this album in a different context.

I love the tales of collaboration in the doc, who contributed or encouraged what. Songs that would have been discarded or ignored had someone not stepped in, often independently, with a good idea.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:37 (one week ago) link

"Sea Song" is one of the B-sides iirc

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:44 (one week ago) link

Despite 'Sea Song', I never made the connection either, I don't really hear much of Wyatt in the vocal, unlike the producers.

Maresn3st, Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:47 (one week ago) link

I think the chunky knitwear is a bigger crime than the hair, it's almost its own genre.

Maresn3st, Thursday, 20 February 2020 15:48 (one week ago) link

Also, Roland (and others in the doc) OTM that one reason the album has stood the test of time, despite being so "'80s," is the depth of his lyrics. As he says, it's pretty remarkable that at 57 he isn't embarrassed singing songs written by his 20-year old self 35 (!) years earlier.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:54 (one week ago) link

The use of grand piano + synths was striking at the time too, and the sax solos aren't grueling.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:56 (one week ago) link

wold love a Seeds of Love doc too tbh

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 16:56 (one week ago) link

the production on this album is pretty absurd in the best sense, you could tell they just went in and wanted to make it sound expansive and ocean deep.

omar little, Thursday, 20 February 2020 17:19 (one week ago) link

The intro to the album version of "Mother's Talk has always sounded to me as if TFF were mimicking a Trevor Horn production.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 20 February 2020 18:37 (one week ago) link

I remember in the liner notes to the deluxe edition they mention Steely Dan being an influence. I can’t really hear it, apart from maybe a comparable yearning in the vocals. And maybe “everybody wants to rule the world” was influenced a little by “I.G.Y.”?

brimstead, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:50 (one week ago) link

not that influences have to be necessarily audible/perceivable

brimstead, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:50 (one week ago) link

it’s funny how Depeche Mode were like “um we need to sound like this NOW” and got the same producer to make music for the masses

brimstead, Thursday, 20 February 2020 19:51 (one week ago) link

They always seem to ignore a track in these documentaries. Poor "Broken". The way it book-ends and extends "HOH" (and binds the whole of side two together) is a little bit brilliant in context, IMHO.

Nag! Nag! Nag!, Friday, 21 February 2020 01:55 (one week ago) link

I was thinking wow Roland Beelzebub is looking quite old all of a sudden then a friend pointed out that he lost his wife suddenly a couple of years ago, poor guy :(

Yeah, sometime around late July of 2017, as far as I can remember? But don't worry, he's found a new love in a young woman named Emily and they're ENGAGED!

Back to the topic of this discussion, I'm glad a lot of y'all caught the Classic Albums episode. I've been meaning to catch the uploads of it available online but am suffering from a severe case of "too much to watch and too little time to watch it all"-itis right now and cannot watch it in its entirety yet, but the intro looked super promising. The fan community has been abuzz about them omitting Manny Elias from the discussion while also including Ian Stanley, and it was nice that they included Oleta Adams.

BTW, "Mothers Talk" is insanely good and I don't get why it didn't get any votes in the original poll.

We Live as We Dee, Alone (deethelurker), Saturday, 22 February 2020 19:33 (one week ago) link

Why wouldn't Ian Stanley be there? He co wrote almost every song, and played on every track.

Manny Elias missing is a better question. Sounds like the drums were a mixture of programmed and real playing, but the documentary (misleadingly?) implied Chris Hughes did a lot of the playing himself.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 22 February 2020 19:41 (one week ago) link

Oleta Adams looked fabulous.

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 February 2020 22:39 (one week ago) link


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