Is THE LODGER David Bowie's best record?

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I say YES

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Wise like orang utan, that was me

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

A fine album it is, Mark, but Bowie's finest hour remains.....

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc000/c004/ c00453h43v6.jpg

Alex in NYC, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"Red Sails" is holy indeed, but I say Low is his best album.

Damian, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

yes yes both those records are good but THE LODGER has Simon House formerly fiddler in hawkwind, Bowie's BEST EVAH SINGING easy (he is not billy mackenzie but it's BLADDY CLOSE), eno on "cricket menace", the unexampled couplet "the hinterland, the hinterland/we're gonna sail to the hinterland", terrific pell-mell rhythm on every cut, and just generally a conceptual integrity in re the misery of (undrugged) sleb success which suggests he is the only star to understand the true dilemma of punk (except me obv)

I WILL NOT DENIED HERE!! YOU MUST ARGUE YR DISSENT or RETIRE BY DEF'N BESTED!!

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Good call. Somebody on another thread mentioned "Repetition" as the most uncharacteristic lyric he ever did - more like Bruce Springsteen than Brion Gysin. Only dud for me is "Look Back in Anger". Also "Boys Keep Swinging" is the greatest gtr solo ever, and "Move On" has the best bv's of any track ever too

dave q, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yes. Lodger is Bowie's masterpiece. Interesting that it's also one of his most overlooked records, isn't it?

"Boys Keep Swinging" = freaking genius "D.J." = catchy danceable genius "Yassassin" = incredible total genius "Red Sails" = major genius "Look Back in Anger" = ASTONISHING GENIUS

Diamond Dogs is a comparative pittance. Ziggy is a joke. Low is half-finished. Station to Station is close but no cigar. Scary Monsters is a mis-step. Aladdin Sane . . . well, almost. But Lodger is just untouchable.

J, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

damn. Kind of shoots the point, dunnit?

J, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"Candy's Room" = Springsteen's best song? He does Bowie = he is rescued from [whatevah]...?

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

No, no, no Scary Monsters is Bowies masterpiece. I remember it getting 7 stars in Record Mirror and it's totally justified. It has probably the best sequenced side one of any record ever. Lodger is great of course, but it sounds like a practise run compared to Scary Monsters.

Billy Dods, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

(7 stars out of how many?)

It is also unfairly overlooked billy dods, but I think the production/guitar sound on SM is v. extremely brittle and monochromatic and hard to get past. And the sleeve is INCREDIBLY UTTERLY TERRIBLE SURELY?

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

also his word-writing too often veers abruptly through the heart of the lousy (an area it *always* somewhat skirts)

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"Lodger" is my favourite Bowie album. It is the only album I've heard where Bowie sounds as if he knows what he's singing about. I don't know why the album is so underrated. "Heroes" gets lots of praise but most of that record sounds cold, contrived and self-indulgent to me. "Low" and "Lodger" are the only albums by him that I listen to these days.

Mark Dixon, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Oh god, you're asking me to pick between the three Berlin albums as well as Scary Monsters -- damn near impossible.

Hmm...the one I listen to most often remains "Heroes" -- "Sons of the Silent Age," there's yer brilliance right there, that chorus, that queasy sax! Genius. "Joooooooooooooe THE LION!" I could go on.

But Lodger for all the aforementioned reasons is right on up there. Those crazy rhythms, oh yes, the way the guitars whine and buzz through the "Look Back in Anger" arrangement and the way Bowie sings "The speaker was an angel..." How "Red Money" revamps Iggy not Ziggy, how "Red Sails" just seems to immediately call to mind a hyperactive Kate Bush video from four years in the future...I could also go on.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

also isn't Scary Monsters the Earthling it's OK to like? (earthling = same subject-matter, much MUCH better songs, fanFUCKINGtastic soundscape, "looking for satellites~" = "kingdom come", "battle of britain (the letter)" = "ashes for ashes", and i reckon you can do this song-by-fckn-song)

taking sides: george murray vs gail ann dorsey

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I say no, but I would lose almost any argument with Mark S. I like Ziggy and Station and Aladdin better than Lodger. Maybe Heroes and Hunky Dory and Low and Young Americans too. Then again, I've not listened to Lodger in ages, and it might have got better.

Martin Skidmore, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Mark S speaks well of Earthling and its qualities, he does. "Looking for Satellites" is for me easily the best song he's done in the past five, six years, and the whole album is the one I've listened to the most from that time.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

bah i am trying to find a piXoR of GAD in demon-horns and horses-tail, as per rowr perf on ToTP 1997

mark s, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

david bowie sucks. now gentle giant on the other hand...

jess, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

actually i have THE BEST OF BOWIE: 1969-74 (and the other one too, i think.) i shall find it and have a listen today while i am breaking a concrete wall with a sledghammer!!* (grrr ph33r my manly powers and the irony of listening to david bowie therein.)

(*this is not a joke.)

jess, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Will you kick the habit and shed your skin?

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

7 stars out of a possible 5. Hmm, Monochromatic maybe, but def not brittle. The drums are just huge, reminiscent of Tony Thompsons work with Chic. It's probably his densest sounding album, not a great deal of light or shade. I love the way it mages to be both (sonically) oppressive but is funny and vulnerable at the same time. Side two has a lot more space in it (that's prob why I heart side one more). And, why Fashion hasn't been sampled to death I don't know?

Yup it is a rotten sleeve, but is there a *patron* of the arts with worst taste in record sleeves. I'd go for Lodger and Ziggy as his best sleeves.

Earthling, is indeed underrated and his take on drum n'bass actually sounds amazingly fresh, while more authentic stuff from the same period (hello Roni Size, 4 Hero) sounds quite dull. I think he realised it works best as 'rock n'roll', rather than as an adjunct to jazz funk.

Billy Dods, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Bowie's best singing is not on "the Lodger," though "Fantastic Planet" would is a good defense of that claim. Nevertheless, Bowie's best singing occurs on "Station to Station."

John Darnielle, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

My stepfather looks just like David Bowie
But he hates David Bowie
I think Bowie's cool
I think Lodger rules

Hunter, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I think "the Idiot" is Bowie's best album, then maybe "Outside", then take your pick from one of the four: Low thru Super Creeps. (I guess "Lodger")

A Nairn, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I haven't heard Lodger, but I'll try to find it soon. I love Low and Heroes, though! The first side of Low is amongst my favorite music, in the right mood.

Ned, it's good to know Petey Gabriel is always lurking just below the level of your conscious mind.

Clarke B., Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

He's not always there, but sometimes the early make-up is. The early hairstyles, no.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I'm actually quite surprised Lodger has received such praise: it wouldn't feature in my top5 Bowie albums, but Boys Keep Swinging is good. For listenability, Hunky Dory is easily the best, side one of Low is close to perfection, and there's something so gloriously twisted and paranoid about Scary Monsters that it would have to be in my top 3. Salute the man.

Shane Murphy, Saturday, 11 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

'Lodger' has the best sleeve of any Bowie record. It spawned the best tribute album in the form of Talking Heads' 'Fear of Music'. I love its travelogue theme (hmm, perhaps it also spawned the Human League's 'Travelogue'?) and its eclectic avant pop stylings, although the same quality can give it the feel of a supermarket food court or theme park: do you want to Turkish flavour of 'Yassassin' or the 'Errol Flynn in the South China Sea' vibe of 'Red Sails'? Do you want the avant-griot chunder of 'African Night Flight' or the Berlin bar-room piano of 'DJ'? But I guess that's PoMo PoMo PoMo fo yo.

I love it to death, although I hear the rot of 'Tonight' and 'Never Let Me Down' setting in with the Iggy re-annexation strategy of 'Red Money', which is far inferior to 'Sister Midnight'.

'Scary Monsters' was a disappointment for me at the time (I now love Side 1) because it seemed calculatedly populist and somewhat anti-modernist. Then we got Chic and 'David Bowie Straight', and everything after that was a disappointment, so you got used to it. I've just read the lyrics to his new single, and it seems like more of the same thing, but I don't really expect much any more, sigh.

He is still the most beautiful, wise and charming man on the planet, muse or no muse.

Momus, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Perhaps a re-annexation strategy like you say, but still, there's something about the way he sings "Project cancelled" and then the way he overdubs the "Re-e-e-e-e-d" part that thrills me. Mmm...think I'll have to listen to this tomorrow!

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I Agree with Alex in New York: Sure, Lodger is cool and all, but Diamond Dogs is a much more interesting record...and a helluvalot more fun.

Lord Custos, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i like the camp william burroughs as acknowledged/overt content on lodger, although i pretty much hate wsburroughs and his stupid little cult

lodger breaks the morbid depression of side-2-low and the depressed fucked-up mess that is heroes

lodger creeps up on the listener -- no concessions to kiddy rock'n'roll -- instead elimination of lyrical abiguity (finally) and instrumental arrangement to match these real songs -- an adult record

maybe even honest ? what with bowie squeezed behind a shop window on the cover -- i can do without the "i'm an international phenomena" thing, though i guess that is central

scary monsters seemss a stab in the same direction but more attempt to rock and more of the old "hey i'm weird" theatrics -- at least he tries a whole lot of different approaches with different musos, so i approach monsters on a song by song basis whereas lodger stands up as an album

the only decent "concept album" from a guy who supposedly is the concept album guy -- it's as if bowie grew up here -- pity the creative run was so brief -- both monsters and lodger he'd kind of learnt to work with eno and then with others without letting them dominate

yeah, pity about all the rest -- let's face it -- either bowie is a bygone '70s culture thing since the cracks were showing by the '80s, or these few late '70s records were the best a guy with resouces and advice to burn could come up with in his 35 years as rock star

George Gosset, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Did anyone know the very interesting fact that Bowie's own favourite Bowie album is The Lodger? Does that clinch the argument for mark s?

Johnathan, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

yeah, david bowie, whateva

Josh, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

johnathan, i didn't know that: i don't think it's much of an indicator, usually

mark s, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I must get myself a copy of Lodger, and I must listen to my copy of Scary Monsters more! My favourites are Hunky Dory, where the vocals/lyrics have more thoughtfulness and strong feeling than on any other, and Low, his musical (non-vocal) peak: first side the most perfect synth-rock songs ever, second side wonderfully weird ambient. And he seems to be in such an interesting mood - a bit depressed but not gloomy, very un-glam, just being himself, letting the music communicate his true feelings. Don't like Station to Station much because musically it sounds like stale and boring disco- rock to me, and the singing is so damn cold. Ziggy is a classic of course, but a bit silly.

Keith McDougall, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

'true feelings'

Josh, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

David Jonezzz best moment was "I dig everything" on Pye. It all went downhill fast after that.

nathalie, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Ned: Do you have any idea how long I looked for music by Sam Therapy and King Dice after hearing that song? The Berlin trilogy stands as a extended statement of my existence at 15-16. They're all fantastic.

Answering this thread is impossible. I can tell you that I don't much care for Pin-Ups because I like the originals too much, or that Black Tie, White Noise grates on me, because Bowie can't play sax well in a traditional sense, but picking a favorite Bowie anything is impossible.

matthew m., Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Do you have any idea how long I looked for music by Sam Therapy and King Dice after hearing that song?

Heh. "BABY BABY BABY I'll never let you go..."

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Hell yeah.

under japanese influence; honor at stake, Sunday, 12 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Lodger is pretty darn good and the culmination of his art-rock period, it's the equal of Hunky Dory I guess (the best of his glam-rock IMO). I've alwyas thought it was a shame he didn't have a similar evolution in his pop phase, Let's Dance was a wonderful start but the albums after that get worse rather than better. It's probably not cool but I think "Let's Dance" & "China Girl" are among his best songs.

g, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"Sons of the Silent Age" is perfect. What production! What lyrics! What singing! The whole album is pretty nice. I like Lodger, find it to be full of good ideas, and the album as a whole makes a strong impression... I find many of the songs taken on their own aren't that compelling however.

Sean, Monday, 13 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Best Bowie song? Easy..one word: Rubberband.

I think "Outside" and "Earthling" are as good as "Lodger." His best album is "Station to Station."

Brent, Tuesday, 14 May 2002 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
good thread.

I think I'm w/ mark s. The guitar lover in me will always love Man Who Sold the World, but in my heart of hearts I know Lodger is his best. Many good points made above, mark re DB's singing, dave re "Boys Keep Swinging" (Belew's studio debut! already sounding like Fripp), Momus re the travelogue quality. The imaginative syncretisms really make this one stand out. I like the way he slides in more classicist elements as well - like the way the piano softly, briefly switches to double time on the chorus to "Fantastic Voyage" (probably my favorite Bowie song), or the New Orleans bass line under the chorus of "Boys Keep Swinging".

Awesome record.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Fame?
Young Americans?

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I don't get the people who say 'Lodger' is DB's best sleeve. I hate it, like 'Blonde on Blonde''s, cos I don't know which way up to put it. 'Diamond Dogs' is good cos it's horizontal. (None of this will make sense to people who only buy CDs.) (Maybe some others.)

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:54 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

So what other artist has had such a burst of creativity in the space of just a few years ("Low" through "Lodger" and the Iggy records, too) that influenced so many artists? "Lodger" certainly is a killer, but for some reason, I'm in the "Station To Station" camp for his best ever, his only album so good that Bowie himself can barely remember making it, which is either a sign of musical greatness or of superior cocaine. Or both.

Erick H (Erick H), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:57 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

So what other artist has had such a burst of creativity in the space of just a few years that influenced so many artists? - um, what other 'influential' artists haven't?

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 25 June 2003 01:59 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

wow totally disagree, what's "stupid" about it, though?

brimstead, Saturday, 30 September 2017 18:47 (two months ago) Permalink

Those three albums are of a piece

The two that bookend them don't fit as well

Totally stupid

brimstead, Saturday, 30 September 2017 18:48 (two months ago) Permalink

Turrican you need to get better weed, dude

brimstead, Saturday, 30 September 2017 18:49 (two months ago) Permalink

Another vote for Station to Station through Scary Monsters as a group.

dan selzer, Saturday, 30 September 2017 18:51 (two months ago) Permalink

Scary Monsters artwork even references the 3 that proceed it. It's sort of the denouement, a summation in a more "mature" but accessible format hinting at the hits to come (for better or worse).

Station to Station is the transition.

dan selzer, Saturday, 30 September 2017 18:53 (two months ago) Permalink

wow totally disagree, what's "stupid" about it, though?

― brimstead, Saturday, September 30, 2017 6:47 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Those three albums are of a piece

The two that bookend them don't fit as well

Totally stupid

― brimstead, Saturday, September 30, 2017 6:48 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Turrican you need to get better weed, dude

― brimstead, Saturday, September 30, 2017 6:49 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Low was made in France and Los Angeles, and Lodger was made in Switzerland and New York, and yes the two either side do bookend them very well. If I'd included Let's Dance, you'd have a point.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 30 September 2017 19:02 (two months ago) Permalink

Scary Monsters artwork even references the 3 that proceed it. It's sort of the denouement, a summation in a more "mature" but accessible format hinting at the hits to come (for better or worse).

Station to Station is the transition.

― dan selzer, Saturday, September 30, 2017 6:53 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yup, absolutely!

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 30 September 2017 19:05 (two months ago) Permalink

Feel mixed on the Berlin Triology title. I mean Bowie moved there in 1976 to escape drugs, so he was in a transitional period himself and it's a "state of mind". Going back to New York in 1980 lines up with the release of Scary Monsters...

Week of Wonders (Ross), Saturday, 30 September 2017 19:29 (two months ago) Permalink

It's weird how Lodger was underrated, for when I discovered rockcrit in the early '90s the Rolling Stone/Christgau claque preferred it to Low and "Heroes".

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:02 (two months ago) Permalink

Smash Hits gave it a negative review at the time. This was before the magazine became more pop oriented post-Tennant (you'd think it would have been the other way around) ...

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:06 (two months ago) Permalink

The Low and "The Heroes" you mean? (xp)

The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:18 (two months ago) Permalink

The correct.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:20 (two months ago) Permalink

It was around the time of Lodger (1979) that Bowie began framing his previous two albums as the beginning of a Berlin-centered trilogy concluding with Lodger, largely as a marketing technique to support the unusual new album.[33]

new noise, Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:25 (two months ago) Permalink

the station to the station

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:25 (two months ago) Permalink

I've always thought the Iggy Pop album, "Idiot", is part of this sequence of albums.

The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:27 (two months ago) Permalink

Yeah, The Idiot could be considered part of the run as well, either that or a companion piece to "Heroes".

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:30 (two months ago) Permalink

Why do I bother?

The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:32 (two months ago) Permalink

That's a very good question.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:34 (two months ago) Permalink

The The Idiot

EZ Snappin, Saturday, 30 September 2017 21:48 (two months ago) Permalink

I prefer Soul Mining.

dan selzer, Saturday, 30 September 2017 22:42 (two months ago) Permalink

i like how hard ppl are working here to make the thread title not the worst bit of the thread

mark s, Saturday, 30 September 2017 22:45 (two months ago) Permalink

certainly did my part

you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 1 October 2017 01:51 (two months ago) Permalink

Bowie Berlin Trilogy vs. Fripp AOR Trilogy vs. ELP Trilogy vs. Donna Summer A Love Trilogy vs. Mahavishnu Orchestra "Trilogy" vs. Kool G Rap & DJ Polo "Trilogy of Terror" vs. Special Forces "Trilogy" vs. Trilogy "Love Me Forever or Love Me Not (The Dub of Doom Mix)" vs. Tarkus: FITE

Andy K, Sunday, 1 October 2017 02:43 (two months ago) Permalink

Young Americans is the start, it's the bold change in direction that makes the later albums possible

the underground is pass-agg (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 1 October 2017 06:01 (two months ago) Permalink

See, I knew it wouldn't be long before someone said that and... I don't agree! While it does represent something of a clean break from what went before, and Station to Station retained one or two of its elements, stylistically I've always seen Young Americans as very much its own thing. It's much harder to make a case for Young Americans being an influence on post-punk/new wave/new romantic, and it doesn't have anywhere near the same feel as the five LP's that followed.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 1 October 2017 07:58 (two months ago) Permalink

I hear its influence on those British soul boys of the eighties (Paul Young, Mick Hucknall).

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 1 October 2017 11:23 (two months ago) Permalink

even Orange Juice.

It is its own thing, though, I agree.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 1 October 2017 11:24 (two months ago) Permalink

"the lodger" is a much better album title than "lodger," bowie should have thanked mark s

I don't trust Visconti's mixing/engineering ear in 2016/17 however the mix on Lodger always sounded p weird to me on vinyl anyway. admittedly none of us had decent stereos when we were staying up late listening to "red money" so I'm not sure, but...skeptical of this effort.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 1 October 2017 11:41 (two months ago) Permalink

everyone should thank me, all the time

mark s, Sunday, 1 October 2017 11:45 (two months ago) Permalink

Lodger is a weird and somewhat frustrating sounding record (I downloaded all the hoffmann-y west German mastering etc trying to find one that sounded good to me) so I'm a bit curious about the remix but yeah mostly skeptical

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 1 October 2017 12:18 (two months ago) Permalink

Interesting point about the influence on Hucknall. He was a huge fan of Eno-era Talking Heads; best exemplified by the Great Curve rip-off on the first album which amounts to a cover (Belew histrionics and all) in all but name

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr9x0lTTUi8

piscesx, Sunday, 1 October 2017 13:17 (two months ago) Permalink

The new box set is enough of a shambles that its spawned a 200+ page Steve Hoffman Forum thread. I read it all. In the end, I guess I like my shitty pirate FLACs taken from pristine original vinyl.

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 6 October 2017 02:48 (two months ago) Permalink

agreed, lol

sleeve, Friday, 6 October 2017 03:00 (two months ago) Permalink

I've almost never been interested in a remaster even when it's objectively "better" or "truer to the original intent" or even "fixed a clearly fucked up original release" of anything that I've grown up with.

dan selzer, Friday, 6 October 2017 03:05 (two months ago) Permalink

Yeah, I'm pretty much the same, although there have been exceptions. Not that remixes/remasters can't be revelatory, but generally an album as originally released is "the original" for me.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Friday, 6 October 2017 05:53 (two months ago) Permalink

There are remasters that I have thanked the stars above for and ones I've abhorred. With Bowie, I have to say I'm glad i dug around the Hoffman board on that subject because for the most part I like the original wave of cd masterings better than the ryko and WAY better than the emi remasters. Have not sufficiently listened to the recent box set series

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Friday, 6 October 2017 14:23 (two months ago) Permalink

I bought the ‘ANCIANT’ box, volume drop on “Horoes” aside i’ve not noticed anything that was problematic for me. Like the sound of the new master of ‘Low’ and the new mix of ‘Lodger’, but these are not albums I have long held relationships with/ impressions of, plus I’ve not been doing a/b comparisons on every note.

michaellambert, Friday, 6 October 2017 14:38 (two months ago) Permalink

Hoffmann-y Post Of The Day: The German RCA versions of The Berlin Trilogy are beeeeeyooootiful. Nothing's boosted or lowered, sound clear and powerful when they need to.

Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 6 October 2017 19:25 (two months ago) Permalink

is that vinyl or CD?

sleeve, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:26 (two months ago) Permalink

CD

Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 6 October 2017 20:12 (two months ago) Permalink

Re: The Lodger, I do like it when '60s musicians call Cream "The Cream."

dinnerboat, Friday, 6 October 2017 20:31 (two months ago) Permalink

Xpost yes those are the ones I'm referring to. All you have to do is turn up the volume level and they blaze to life.

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Friday, 6 October 2017 20:41 (two months ago) Permalink

lodger is a much better title than "the lodger", the former is more mysterious.. more jamais vu

brimstead, Saturday, 7 October 2017 01:29 (two months ago) Permalink

i have about zero interest in people going back and remixing old stuff, unless it was never released or properly mixed in the first place... even then it depends.

brimstead, Saturday, 7 October 2017 01:31 (two months ago) Permalink

some of the best bowie back up vocals on this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvn-jzJiAA

Week of Wonders (Ross), Saturday, 7 October 2017 01:41 (two months ago) Permalink

very quick first impression on a very quick cursory listen comparing both the lodgers on apple music...some cases the newfound bass (allowance for bass) makes things seem muddier, but when it works it makes it sound fresh and powerful.

dan selzer, Saturday, 7 October 2017 03:01 (two months ago) Permalink

those poor, poor Ryko bonus tracks... nowhere to be found on this new box

absolutely brutal comments regarding sound quality here:

https://www.discogs.com/David-Bowie-A-New-Career-In-A-New-Town-1977-1982/master/1244579

Haha holy shit I literally cannot believe this got soundchecked. There is no WAY someone checked the files and said "yes the first re-release of these albums in decades and this is how I want it to sound"

they cut ordinary 96/24 overcompressed files on vinyl and call it original master tapes, funny guys.

sleeve, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:05 (two months ago) Permalink

Yeah was reading about it here http://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/parlophone-hold-its-hands-up-to-bowie-box-heroes-issue-and-takes-action/ Fair play to Parlophone for agreeing to replace the discs, but how nobody thought that the 'volume drop' was acceptable on Bowie's signature song on a prestige box set is astonishing.

https://open.spotify.com/track/5dodh7Bi4YhWxs9LxwjnYO about 2'48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_jx5sVQ32s about 0'37

Dan Worsley, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:29 (two months ago) Permalink

Record companies kinda need to stop using mastering engineers that have been listening to loud music in rooms since 1970

MaresNest, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:30 (two months ago) Permalink

Having heard the new Lodger mix, I think I'll just stick woth the original - Visconti did a great job on Blackstar, but the original mix of Lodger suits the record.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:49 (two months ago) Permalink


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