I'm tired of a world without Sleater-Kinney

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

In the grand scheme, I guess it doesn't make much difference. They left behind a lot of music I can listen to.

The good: Carrie's NPR blog is frequently a great read. Corin's had another little baby.
The bad: Janet is a Jick.

That's all. I'm just griping.

Johnny Fever, Sunday, 1 June 2008 09:42 (eleven years ago) link

Their last few albums were 'meh' to me. But when I saw them on their farewell tour they blew me away, even with the later stuff. I'm so glad I saw them before they broke up.

MacDara, Sunday, 1 June 2008 10:35 (eleven years ago) link

who do you miss most? the one that sounds like t'pau, or the one who sings through her nose?

jeremy waters, Sunday, 1 June 2008 12:11 (eleven years ago) link

The good: Carrie's NPR blog is frequently a great read

You mean this excrescence?

I DO miss them, but The Woods suggested that they'd exhausted their original store of matereial. Maybe they can reunite in a few years like their buddies The Go-Betweens.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 1 June 2008 15:36 (eleven years ago) link

lol, rockism

jeremy waters, Sunday, 1 June 2008 15:39 (eleven years ago) link

it's like a whole new handy way of not actually having to explain why you disagree with something! it's a "that's gay" for the 00s!

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 1 June 2008 15:46 (eleven years ago) link

johnny fever otm. carrie's blog is fun.

gabbneb, Sunday, 1 June 2008 15:50 (eleven years ago) link

reading carrie's npr blog killed my ten-years'-worth of crush on her. :(

permanent resolution, Sunday, 1 June 2008 15:53 (eleven years ago) link

I wish I understood what people see in this band.

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 1 June 2008 15:55 (eleven years ago) link

awesome, xp. i always thought she was kinda boring, and it's made her almost as interesting as corin for me.

gabbneb, Sunday, 1 June 2008 15:58 (eleven years ago) link

i never got into them myself but a lot of my friends loved them.

Surmounter, Sunday, 1 June 2008 16:01 (eleven years ago) link

rockism, 1997: a term describing one or several clusters of aesthetic assumptions regarding music specifically and art generally; strongly related to tropes of "authenticity," "importance," et al

rockism, 2008: not liking Madonna enough

J0hn D., Sunday, 1 June 2008 16:28 (eleven years ago) link

"my affection towards Madonna waned. I soon discovered music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance"

"Madonna goes beyond the usual banality and sterility of contemporary pop. Now and again, I'll hear a pop song on the radio and be able to enjoy it as a guilty pleasure. But I can't say that I am drawn to Madonna in that way, she takes herself too seriously. And even that would be tolerable if she weren't so artistically gutless."

jeremy waters, Sunday, 1 June 2008 16:31 (eleven years ago) link

music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance
music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance
music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance
music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance
music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance
music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance
music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance
music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance

Noodle Vague, Sunday, 1 June 2008 16:32 (eleven years ago) link

fish to chum

J0hn D., Sunday, 1 June 2008 16:48 (eleven years ago) link

The bad: Janet is a Jick.

I beg to differ -- Janet adds a nice OOMPH to the skins on Real Emotional Trash, and that aside, I think it's also Malkmus' best album yet, post-Pavement. love it love it love it.

stephen, Sunday, 1 June 2008 17:09 (eleven years ago) link

I wish I understood what people see in Pavement. Or the Jicks. Or the 90s.

Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 1 June 2008 17:10 (eleven years ago) link

i'm sure Janet adds oomph to the Jicks. but it's such a step down.

gabbneb, Sunday, 1 June 2008 17:22 (eleven years ago) link

i will hear no bad word about pavement (even though the other day I dumped all their records off my hard drive because I don't listen to them anymore.

I can hang with Dig Me Out, but too much of this stuff and it's soooo lol earnest.

kenan, Sunday, 1 June 2008 17:32 (eleven years ago) link

I wish I understood what people see in Pavement. Or the Jicks. Or the 90s.

Pavement != Jicks != 90s

stephen, Sunday, 1 June 2008 17:34 (eleven years ago) link

@Alfred: Though I still love Madonna (or did as recently as 2005...now, not so sure), I enjoy a thoughtful dissent instead of someone just saying "she sucks, are you stoopid?!"

Johnny Fever, Sunday, 1 June 2008 20:36 (eleven years ago) link

Johnny, this is far from a thoughtful dismissal. A statement like "I soon discovered music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance" tells me that she's an idealogue, or at the very least deaf to the qualities which made S-K's music so transformative. Then again, this is the person who had a hand in writing "Entertain," so I should expect idealogical purity.

I can't decide whether I hate that "most of all" or the thought informing the phrase with greater intensity.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 1 June 2008 21:32 (eleven years ago) link

I DO miss them, but The Woods suggested that they'd exhausted their original store of matereial.

actually, it suggested they desperately needed a mastering engineer who understood the concept of dynamics.

Lawrence the Looter, Sunday, 1 June 2008 21:44 (eleven years ago) link

Right -- and were relying on production tricks, filters, disguises, and affect to mitigate the loss of intensity and the increasing suspicion that this was same-old same-old.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 1 June 2008 21:46 (eleven years ago) link

Rich wrote a totally reasonable dismissal of Hard Candy. And he doesn't care for her much.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 1 June 2008 21:49 (eleven years ago) link

Alfred, c'mon, that post Carrie wrote is mostly about Madonna the phenomenon, not Madonna's new album.

Mr. Que, Sunday, 1 June 2008 21:57 (eleven years ago) link

No -- it's also about Madonna the artist. Brownstein doesn't find Madonna worthwhile other than as something vaguely embarrassing/fun she listened to in her childhood. Again, I take issue with terms with which she'd dismissed her. I posted Rick's review as an example of how to do it RIGHT.

Then again, musicians being reactionary non-shockah.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 1 June 2008 22:02 (eleven years ago) link

A statement like "I soon discovered music with fewer filters and disguises, less affect, greater intensity, and most of all, substance" tells me that she's an idealogue, or at the very least deaf to the qualities which made S-K's music so transformative.

Alfred, I hope you know that over the years I have really come to value your opinions on music. When I think about what's good about ilx, I think of you, because some of the stuff you've said has really pointed me toward new ways of thinking about music: both about music I'd dismissed or not been able to enjoy as much as I'd hoped, and, on the other hand, as a way also of confirming for me some things I already thought but hadn't quite defined for myself.

I set this up this way because I couldn't disagree with you more on this, and I don't want you to think I'm just being reflexive or unduly dismissive. Carrie's position here is not the "asked/answered/resolved" bunch of non-starter that we all thought it was back in the late 20th century. I built much of my career on a belief that authenticity tropes were bullshit, but I'm no longer as sure of that as I was. S/K's body of work, from beginning to end, can be read as an argument for it, and what I want to say to you is that that argument isn't a pointless retread of things already decided; if it were, S/K's music wouldn't have resonated like it did.

I mean that said I don't like her article either, but that particular point is not, I feel confident, as empty as we have most of us spent many years thinking it to be.

J0hn D., Sunday, 1 June 2008 22:33 (eleven years ago) link

I enjoy Monitor Mix immensely...

calstars, Sunday, 1 June 2008 22:38 (eleven years ago) link

it may be helpful to understand that she's not really doing rock criticism per se, al. also that she's right.

gabbneb, Sunday, 1 June 2008 22:45 (eleven years ago) link

It'll be helpful, John, if we separate discussion of S-K's merits from Brownstein's post. If by "authenticity tropes" you mean those qualities in S-K's music that made their depiction of love and loss more powerful and transgressive (hence authentic) than any band of their generation, I totally agree.

But the means by which they reach those authentic depictions of love and loss aren't so clear. From the use of shouted and/or interwined harmonies of The Hot Rock to Carrie's English accent in "Combat Rock" and Corin's Yoko Ono-ese in "Milkshake and Honey," this is a band that relished distance. On their best songs the distance forced us to understand those relationship travails in the frustrating manner of listening to a friend describe a problem whose emotional lexicon you don't get but your empathy and love help you try anyway.

In her post, Brownstein advocates an approach to music that undercuts her contribution to the crafting of S-K's music; call it myopia or naivete. But since we respond to art differently than when we make it, maybe I'll cut her some slack.

btw thanks for the very kind words. They're the nicest things anyone's said all week.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 1 June 2008 22:57 (eleven years ago) link

like I said, I have no problem with her indifference to Madonna, but if she thinks Maddie doesn't employ S-K's processes in her own music -- more subversively in her best work, because she's working as a pop artist -- she's fooling herself.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 1 June 2008 22:59 (eleven years ago) link

But the means by which they reach those authentic depictions of love and loss aren't so clear.

Well, but this is where I'm going with this: I think they're not as unclear as those of use who're fond of theory are prone to think. I wonder if the distance you speak of on earlier S/K records isn't somewhat a product of not having enough budget (=time to listen to mixes & re-think) rather than of embracing ambiguities, and I'm less convinced of the null value of authorial intention than I was...well, to shoot straight, than I was before I'd been the guy with an intention for 15 years or so.

Here we may approach a kind of uncrossable divide: for a performer who traffics, or comes to traffic, in personal/less-veiled/more-direct performances, the things that consequently occur between performer & audience may redefine the space in such a way that previously-embraced models lose some of their appeal. If this is true, I'm kind of a worthless debate partner here, because I know exactly when a lot of my thoughts about the relationship between performer & material & audience got a lot less clearly separable for me, and where some of the old tired "you can tell when somebody's really close to his material" tropes began to seem less hollow/phoned-in to me.

But since we respond to art differently than when we make it, maybe I'll cut her some slack.

but yeah unfortunately this is the other thing: what artists have to say about art is of quetstionable value: forest/trees etc.

J0hn D., Sunday, 1 June 2008 23:48 (eleven years ago) link

From the use of shouted and/or interwined harmonies of The Hot Rock to Carrie's English accent in "Combat Rock" and Corin's Yoko Ono-ese in "Milkshake and Honey," this is a band that relished distance.

affecting accents automatically = "distance"? from louis armstrong's entirely half-valved solo in fletcher henderson's "shanghai shuffle" to arthur lee adopting a faux-english accent in love's "andmoreagain", to m.i.a's myriad vocal affectations, nothing could be further from the truth. if anything, such changes in approach reduce distance by (among other things) partially deflating the self-seriousness of a piece, giving the listener a knowing wink, while drawing them closer.

Lawrence the Looter, Monday, 2 June 2008 00:57 (eleven years ago) link

You said "automatically," I didn't.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 2 June 2008 00:59 (eleven years ago) link

M.I.A.'s "myriad" vocal affectations are precisely why she doesn't deserve a place here -- sometimes they add distance, sometimes they do what you say.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:01 (eleven years ago) link

I have no problem with her indifference to Madonna

I do. That is totally rockist. next thing you'll be saying Mariah carey isn't the greatest singer in the history of music.

kornrulez6969, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:25 (eleven years ago) link

haha

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:26 (eleven years ago) link

wtf is going on on this thread

Surmounter, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:26 (eleven years ago) link

people havin a discussion branching out from an essay by a woman who used to play in Sleater-Kinney

any other questions

J0hn D., Monday, 2 June 2008 01:29 (eleven years ago) link

You guys are over my head now, with all the talk about motivations and artist p'sov. I admit that when I first read Carrie's article about Madonna, something inside me said "eew, I'd have expected better," but then I realized that anyone can dislike pretty much anything for whatever reason makes him or her comfortable and left it at that.

Johnny Fever, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:45 (eleven years ago) link

no thanks john that was a good summation. i have a feeling if i read the essay i'd get upset and start having bullshit arguments so i think i won't. sound ok?

Surmounter, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:51 (eleven years ago) link

it's not much of an essay, it's quite brief. The gist of it is Madonna = contrived.

wilter, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:54 (eleven years ago) link

i see

well duh

haha

Surmounter, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:54 (eleven years ago) link

Can anyone give me a good reason to like this band?

brightscreamer, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:58 (eleven years ago) link

I thought we did!

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 2 June 2008 02:00 (eleven years ago) link

One of the members saw the beastie boys booed off stage one time. True story.

xpost

wilter, Monday, 2 June 2008 02:01 (eleven years ago) link

brightscreamer please name one band you didn't like and then somebody told you "here's a reason to like them" and then you were like "oh ok well then I see, they are my favorite now"

J0hn D., Monday, 2 June 2008 02:21 (eleven years ago) link

That worked with me on The Velvet Underground. Someone said, "Listen to 'The Gift'" and it worked. That probably explains why I still like John Cale more than any other member, but at least I don't turn my nose up at any of the first four VU records anymore.

Johnny Fever, Monday, 2 June 2008 02:25 (eleven years ago) link

What's so impressive about them, though? They just seem so ordinary to me in every way other than their gender.

brightscreamer, Monday, 2 June 2008 02:28 (eleven years ago) link

If you hate Interpol on first listen, you're going to muster every bit of armature and sophistry in your behalf.

Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 September 2011 22:18 (eight years ago) link

better grab some penicillin also

balls, Monday, 5 September 2011 22:21 (eight years ago) link

plus "Entertain" isn't a cudgel; it's a rare misstep, sung by the band's resident Mother Jones reader.

Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 September 2011 22:23 (eight years ago) link

mojo's a very worthwhile mag soto don't front

balls, Monday, 5 September 2011 22:25 (eight years ago) link

Mother Jones is too.

Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 September 2011 22:26 (eight years ago) link

the band's resident Mother Jones reader

how dare u

mookieproof, Monday, 5 September 2011 23:10 (eight years ago) link

two years pass...

John D left a lot of bodies on this thred. man i miss this band. i feel like everything I've liked since 2006 is just trying to replace the sensation of seeing them live.

Bringing the mosh (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 25 April 2014 04:46 (five years ago) link

If you hate Interpol on first listen, you're going to muster every bit of armature and sophistry in your behalf.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, September 5, 2011 10:18 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

better grab some penicillin also
― balls, Monday, September 5, 2011 10:21 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink


I died of coffee inhalation

endzone selfie (bernard snowy), Friday, 25 April 2014 07:21 (five years ago) link

Can anyone give me a good reason to like this band?

― brightscreamer, Monday, 2 June 2008 01:58 (5 years ago)

brightscreamer please name one band you didn't like and then somebody told you "here's a reason to like them" and then you were like "oh ok well then I see, they are my favorite now"

― J0hn D., Monday, 2 June 2008 02:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

J0hn D. - Animal Collective.

― brightscreamer, Monday, 2 June 2008 02:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

christmas candy bar (al leong), Friday, 25 April 2014 11:37 (five years ago) link

Non-contribution: I liked Neskowin off Corin's last solo record more than most SK songs. It's my #4 most played song on iTunes. The kind of song that drew me to them but with none of the "This Is An Important Band" baggage that became overwhelming after they broke up.

Can't hardly listen to The Woods anymore. Go back to Hot Rock a lot.

kaleb, Saturday, 26 April 2014 08:52 (five years ago) link

Also, Start Together and Quarter to Three are perfect.

kaleb, Saturday, 26 April 2014 09:05 (five years ago) link

five months pass...

So glad the world has Sleater-Kinney in it again!

Johnny Fever, Monday, 20 October 2014 13:27 (four years ago) link

four years pass...

Just now, on FB:

Sleater-Kinney. Produced by St. Vincent. 2019.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 16:06 (eight months ago) link

this....hmmm.

resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 16:07 (eight months ago) link

the promo photo going around with that makes it seem like no one in S-K is happy about it.

soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 20:00 (eight months ago) link

tbf St-V's records don't sound that good so I'm not that excited about this (yet)

resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 20:11 (eight months ago) link

Always nice to hear about another S-K record. But outside of Jeff Lynne, I'm not sure there's a producer whose sound I like less.

kornrulez6969, Tuesday, 8 January 2019 20:11 (eight months ago) link

otm, sadly

eva logorrhea (bendy), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 20:14 (eight months ago) link

the replies to the tweet were all basically YASS KWEENS SLAY and my response is basically =|

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 22:36 (eight months ago) link

St-V records have been produced by John Congleton, except the last one (Congleton and Antonoff and somebody else) and the acoustic re-imagining of the last one (St. V and Thomas Bartlett) and at this point I think she probably is equipped to be herself as good or better a producer as any of her producers

flamboyant goon tie included, Tuesday, 8 January 2019 22:48 (eight months ago) link

sent to a friend earlier: "I mean eno/byrne works so I guess. It does kinda sniff of “all my new famous friends” but idk. I can’t say anything bad about any of them"

YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 22:58 (eight months ago) link

SK are a strong enough band to shine through whatever production they choose, so i'm happy they're making another record. hopefully it's as good as the last one

bros before HOOS (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 23:07 (eight months ago) link

I kind of would like them to aim a little higher (haven't felt the desire to listen to No Cities since the reunion tour).

Siouxie Sioux Vide (Leee), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 23:18 (eight months ago) link

No Cities has been a surprisingly fitting soundtrack to the Trump years.

Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 23:27 (eight months ago) link

Maybe she'll be their Daniel Lanois. (Which I'm not even sure if I mean as a good or bad thing.)

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 03:11 (eight months ago) link

I wanna be your Daniel Lanois
put reverb on everything, make it sound like gauze

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 15:55 (eight months ago) link

I like St. Vincent best when she's rocking out the aggro covers (Pop Group, Big Black) so I'm optimistic

flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 16:18 (eight months ago) link

agree with fgti here. not sure if i like that best as much as maybe "appreciate that bit the most." man i've never really thought about that feeling, when you look at an artist and think "i love that she goes _there_," rather than "this is what she does BEST"!

Hunt3r, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:15 (eight months ago) link

I saw her a bunch on the St. V tour and found myself looking forward to those covers extremely, the moment when she and her band go off-click and just rock out. "Like her best when she's" is accurate for my experience, but like, I think the contrast between her slaved-to-a-click main set and those aggro digressions is partially responsible for why I liked those moments so much

flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 18:40 (eight months ago) link

haven't felt the desire to listen to No Cities since the reunion tour

OK this was kind of dumb of me to say, as I listened just now and it was great -- "Fade" is kind of an SK metal song!

Oleeever St. John Yogurty (Leee), Saturday, 19 January 2019 00:13 (eight months ago) link

St. Vincent too fussy.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 January 2019 01:04 (eight months ago) link

four months pass...

ITT: a butt

☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, 28 May 2019 13:13 (three months ago) link

they're playing the Hopscotch Festival in Raleigh in September, hopefully the album will be out by then? (I'm not clicking that link)

Evans on Hammond (evol j), Tuesday, 28 May 2019 13:17 (three months ago) link

i think it's teasing a new single

not a big st. vincent fan so was a bit worried but first single rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5uAH0vNn2s

devvvine, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:14 (three months ago) link

could maybe do without the reverby yelps

devvvine, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:16 (three months ago) link

this sounds very much like what i'd expect sleater-kinney produced by st. vincent to sound like

ufo, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:21 (three months ago) link

I like it! Never have really listened to St. Vincent, so to me it sounds like a less noisey The Woods.

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:26 (three months ago) link

otm xp

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:28 (three months ago) link

Missed this charity album track from '17 (not on youtube): https://open.spotify.com/album/3BEQvcAzhYWoYVu41ySTdd?si=dIHsWEd5Q724zQew6N6Yxg

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:33 (three months ago) link

I'm really digging this, and ufo otm. It's weird (but good) that there's so much bass in the mix, though, considering Janet said a few years ago, "That big bass sound that hits you in your gut is unpleasant!"

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 14:37 (three months ago) link

Really liking this

Michael F Gill, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 15:02 (three months ago) link

Miranda July! I always forget about her.

Yerac, Wednesday, 29 May 2019 15:06 (three months ago) link

Liking this too! It feels like a logical progression from NCTL, dancey post-punk but this time with glossier production.

Fall US/Canada tour announced today too.

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 17:50 (three months ago) link

I never listen to No Cities to Love, but it's one of the better comebacks of recent years -- it's like they never left.

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 May 2019 17:52 (three months ago) link

Yes. I’m happy for a world with Sleater-Kinney.

Pre-sale tix available now.

New Song!

https://open.spotify.com/album/2KF3U2jrmF8c9L2TmHw3Xa?si=Xh8F8NYgRNSntkaGnkTBqA

"The Future Is Here"...a slower New Wave-y Corin track.

a large tuna called “Justice” (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 14 June 2019 04:22 (three months ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.