Rage against the Machine S/D

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I've noticed that RatM gets a large amount of flack on this board, and after going back and listening to the first two albums again I realized that they're still one of my favorite bands. So, haters and closet fans, you've been called out!

Jordan, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Personally, I think the first album is an absolute classic, one of those things where everything just falls into place and every moment on the album is a hook. One thing that separates them from the vast mass of inferior rap-rock that came afterwards is that they're genuinely funky, and it's the writing and riffs that make it heavy, not ultra-saturated distortion or power chords.

Also, Zach does such catchy rhythmic stuff to make his flow fit tempos and grooves not usually found in hip-hop. I think he's never really gotten enough credit for it...I could see being annoyed by his tone I guess, but while it may sound awkward over the straight hip-hop tracks I've heard him on, it's so perfect for the band and for the harder tracks he's appeared on.

The second album took awhile to grow on me and it's not a masterpiece like the debut, but it's great too. It's got this warm, upfront organic sound that makes both the hip-hop and the hardcore-sounding parts sound better. Goddamn do they have energy on these albums.

I can take or leave Battle for Los Angeles, and I think Renegades is solid fun (especially the Rakim, Cypress Hill and Minor Threat covers), but debut and Evil Empire are classic enough for me.

Jordan, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

So, haters and closet fans, you've been called out!

You don't *need* to call me out, Jordan.

Capsule history of Ned and RATM -- warm July night, 1992, some time before the first album came out.

FRIEND: "Come, Ned, let us go to this benefit with lots of bands on it. Rage Against the Machine are playing, and I have seen them and they are great. You will like them."

NED: "I trust you, friend."

[at show, RATM take the stage and the entire crowd goes nuts]

NED to self: "My friend alas lied. This is absolutely terrible jock rock pig-headed fucking crap."

Further encounters with the group's work over time merely confirmed this. You are welcome to their idiocies. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

My punk rock heart has a hard time resisting that "Do What You Tell Me" song. And the Guerrilla Radio video is great. I think the punk-funk thing was done better by Fishbone, though.

John Darnielle, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

fishbones new shit is *so* on the next level. like mingus meets bad brains with angelo singing.

chaki, Sunday, 5 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Chaki - you serious? Who's releasing it?

John Darnielle, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't see how they're any more idiotic than most other metal/punk/hardcore bands that they're usually lumped in with, and I usually find them to be far less so. I suppose when I got into them (soon after the debut) I had a background of listening to heavier music, but I really fail to see where you get that impression of them Ned, unless you want to start nitpicking about the lyrics (which I usually don't care to do).

Jordan, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I really fail to see where you get that impression of them Ned

Maybe context was all -- and I couldn't understand a single thing de la Rocha was saying at that gig, so lyrical content or lack thereof certainly wasn't driving my hate initially, though I later used it as a stick to beat their fans with when much was made of them. All I know is that it did not move me at all, period -- reminded me of nothing more than a thrashier Red Hot Chili Peppers, a band I despise with a burning passion. I certainly don't recall anything special about supposed guitar god Tom Morello's playing, that's for sure.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Search Urban Dance Squad
Destroy RAGTM

nathalie, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

What Nath said. I always liked them Urban Dance Squad people.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Urban Dance Squad was fun. "Deeper Shade of Soul" is an incredibly addictive single. I loved that first Rage album in high school. I think Zack's politics starting taking over after that, and I just started wishing he'd shut the hell up so I could listen to the band. Apparently no one's been able to figure out how to rap decently over the aggressive rock-rap combo.

bnw, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

For me the cool thing about Tom Morello is that he consciously rejected being a 'guitar god' type shredder...why play a bunch of notes that don't fit with the vibe of the song when you take pull out the extended techniques for a guitar break and make some noize.

I think most 'real' mc's are too laid back to do this sort of thing justice, which is what makes Zach so cool. I can't wait for Mos Def's rock album though.

Jordan, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Mos Def's "rock" album? Oh god...

Anyway, there are a couple of Rage songs I like OK (uhh, can't really remember how they go, but they probably sound pretty much like all the other ones) but the rapping is just too adolescent and silly. I really think they should hire Sammy Hagar to be their next singer. They DO get credit for understanding that the purpose of propaganda is not to preach to the like-minded. That a multiracial bunch of commies from LA -- the white-minority dystopia -- were able to draw a few million Johnny Rebels into their pit is success on some sort of practical level, so I'll give the fuckers a little red merit badge to hang next to their platinum records. Perhaps the next best thing to Ice T getting a full time gig with Slayer.

Kris, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

The road to hell is paved w/ RatM recs.

Andrew L, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Wait a second, why aren't THEY hiring Ice T (Rage, I mean)? Doesn't it just seem like an obvious match?

Kris, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

That "rock" track on the Mos Def album is the biggest piece of shit I've ever heard.

Clarke B., Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Rat M is a bettah name than Rage Against the Machine

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Darn That Machine!

briania, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Rat at Rat R was a hell of a good band.

Colin Meeder, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

That "rock" track on the Mos Def album is the biggest piece of shit I've ever heard.

Not as bad as the one where he, like, songs some Red Hot Chili Peppers. That's painful.

I like Rage Against the Machine. They were good live (with At The Drive In and Gang Starr--good lineup, at least to me) and their records rock more often than not. The lyrics are mostly ignorable and if not they're funny. "Funny" is a big part of RATM's appeal-- it's rockin' and one is jumping around and rap-metalling out but, like, the dude is like 5 feet tall and jumping around like Rumpelstiltskin and bitching about Mumia Abu-Jamal as if any of the frat-fucks that form most of his audience care at all.

So search the first and third albums. I didn't like the second one (Evil Empire) much and the idea of the covers record makes my skin crawl.

adam, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Mumia Abu-Jamal = cop killer, fuck him

dave q, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

RATM's first album is classic, so much more vital and direct than all the nu-metal that's come afterwards. Tom Morello is a great guitarist, and I think the lyrics are better than poeple give them credit for. I think the -benefits- of politically-oriented leftist rock are often overlooked for the complications and critique: the complicity in signing with a major label, the polemic nature of the lyrics, etc. But as just another suburban kid without much interest in the real world outside of my video games and music, the video for "Freedom" was one of the first times I seriously thought about politics in general. I'd never been interested in history at all, but afterwards I was curious. Granted, you could argue the tactic of the video is to make the viewer sympathize with the bereaved psychology of leftist oppositional politics, but it was a positive influence on me. I started reading about the American Indian movement, the 60's, COINTELPRO, all that.

Dare, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

FYI the Mos Def rock thing (Black Jack Johnson) is made up of the bassist and drummer from Living Colour, the guitarist from Bad Brains, and Bernie Worrell (from P-Funk). Sounds like a good time to me.

Jordan, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

If we do want to talk about the politics of the band in a bit more detail, I'll grant what Kris and Dare noted but from a reverse angle, namely a quote I always loved. It was from Daniel B., I think, from Front 242, a Lollapalooza 93 tourmate of Rage. His line was something like, "I like what Rage are doing and all that, but whenever I listen to them, I feel like I'm in kindergarten," context suggesting that their political awareness is useful to someone just starting to think about things in more detail, like Dare noted, but patently obvious and ultimately limiting to one who has put some more thought into the situation.

One can still think the 'system' is fucked, etc., without agreeing with Rage's cartoonish approach to things -- and if the argument is that being cartoonish is part of their appeal, I'll note that the band expressed support on stage for folks like the IRA Provos. For a band that claims awareness as part and parcel of their whole package to support *those* idiots is a sign, and not a good one.

Musically, enjoy what you like. Politically, it seems to me Rage is a band to grow out of rather than hold allegiance to.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

And for what it's worth, I'd rather listen to an eight-hour jam between Eric Johnson, Steve Vai and Joe Satriani then thirty seconds worth of Tom Morello. It would be torture, but I wouldn't want to punch the walls in sheer frustration at trying to escape.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Steve Vai is funny. He recorded a song called "Viv Woman".

RATM... I really liked them when I first heard "Killing (In The Name Of)". Then I heard everything else they did and got a severe case of the Creeping Horror. Getting rid of Zack is quite possibly the best thing they could have done as far as I'm concerned. As far as Tom Morello's talent is concerned... He seems talented enough, but I'd much rather talk to him than listen to him play.

Dan Perry, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I actually do like Kris' Ice-T suggestion. That *does* make perfect sense.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd like it more if part of Ice-T's duties as RATM frontman involved kicking Zack repeatedly in the teeth.

Dan Perry, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't like RATM or any other bands of that ilk. When this sound started becoming popular I realized I had become fundamentally out of touch with what the kids were listening to. Conicidentally, around that time I also developed my "older is cooler" attitude, so it all worked out.

Sean, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

dq: mumia = framed.

Sterling Clover, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd like it more if part of Ice-T's duties as RATM frontman involved kicking Zack repeatedly in the teeth.

Goes without saying, m'friend.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I actually do like Kris' Ice-T suggestion. That *does* make perfect sense.
hence totally blergh. go for something totally crazeeee. tom jones! with, as backing singers, the roches!

nathalie, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Then they'd be Stereophonics, Nath.

Dan Perry, Friday, 21 June 2002 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

three years pass...
You guys make me laugh. People can like whatever they want to. I find it funny that you make reference to people like Satriani, Vai when talking about Tom Morello (I've seen countless people in forums mention how theyre so talented but Morello isnt lol). What you fail to realise is that when those artists you like first appeared there were people who thought they were shit and "adolescent" (i.e. people aged 40-60). So stop with the hypocritical bitchin. Do you think everyone thought Led Zeppelin's debut was an instant classic as soon as it came out?

Ant, Sunday, 7 May 2006 21:38 (fourteen years ago) link

Do you think I care?

I really think they should hire Sammy Hagar to be their next singer.

Ask for Sammy, get Chris Cornell.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 May 2006 21:46 (fourteen years ago) link

"Guerilla Radio" was a nice song.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 7 May 2006 21:47 (fourteen years ago) link

Worth tracking down is the anti war song Zac De La Rocha did with DJ Shadow that was made available as a free download. Some of Shadow's heaviest drums allied to a tight angry rap by the dreadlocked one.

Treblekicker (treblekicker), Sunday, 7 May 2006 21:59 (fourteen years ago) link

I dont think you care, but I thought it was worth exposing your hypocrisy, since no one else had. :D

Ant, Thursday, 11 May 2006 18:00 (fourteen years ago) link

A dictionary will be helpful to you at some point. Literacy is however the first step.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 May 2006 18:28 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

lawl the student who lives next door to me is trying out 'killing in the name of' on his/her 'axe'.

banriquit, Thursday, 3 April 2008 21:55 (twelve years ago) link

So, when is the Inside Out reunion again?

Mackro Mackro, Thursday, 3 April 2008 22:07 (twelve years ago) link

I'm not sure why I've decided to take this question seriously, but anyway...

S: "Freedom," "Down Rodeo," "The Ghost Of Tom Joad," the song from The Crow soundtrack

D: Most of Battle of LA (WAY overrated.. especially "Sleep Now In The Fire"), "Renegades Of Funk," the Cypress hill cover, most of the covers album

billstevejim, Sunday, 6 April 2008 00:35 (twelve years ago) link

people STILL give a shit about this band?!?

Eisbaer, Sunday, 6 April 2008 02:06 (twelve years ago) link

six years pass...

I think that Battle of Los Angeles is a good album and I don't care who knows it

paolo, Thursday, 25 September 2014 14:38 (five years ago) link

i am happier to hear rage than pretty much any other 90s mainstream rock band

adam, Thursday, 25 September 2014 15:14 (five years ago) link

three years pass...

when i was a kid i was AFRAID of RATM! like people would wear their shirts and i'd think "i bet that band is too out of control for me. i like beethoven's Eroica symphony, and i'm too young and sheltered to even know what the word erotica means."

i'm not sure i ever heard "killing in the name of" until just now. it is flagrantly bad! if you just listen to the guitar riff and concentrate on it, it is unbelievably boring and tame and completely at odds with the lyrics.

FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME!
*endless jam band slappy guitar riff plays in the corner of a coffeeshop in the 3rd largest collegetown in a state that has between 3 and 5 members in the house of representatives*

Karl Malone, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:24 (two years ago) link

Definitely one of the worst bands of all time.

ultros ultros-ghali, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:46 (two years ago) link

Everyone I knew in high school that listened to RATM are Tories now

ultros ultros-ghali, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:47 (two years ago) link

Capsule history of Ned and RATM -- warm July night, 1992, some time before the first album came out.

FRIEND: "Come, Ned, let us go to this benefit with lots of bands on it. Rage Against the Machine are playing, and I have seen them and they are great. You will like them."

NED: "I trust you, friend."

[at show, RATM take the stage and the entire crowd goes nuts]

NED to self: "My friend alas lied. This is absolutely terrible jock rock pig-headed fucking crap."

loooool NED otm

Karl Malone, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:51 (two years ago) link

Quarter century later and I stand by it all.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 14 October 2017 22:41 (two years ago) link

haha that's too good

niels, Sunday, 15 October 2017 09:24 (two years ago) link

one year passes...

http://www.brokker.jp/ratm/

StanM, Monday, 22 July 2019 15:27 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4Tw4qFlA3D/

El Paso, TX March 26, 2020
Las Cruces, NM March 28, 2020
Phoenix, AZ March 30, 2020
Indio, CA April 10, 2020
Indio, CA April 17, 2020

StanM, Friday, 1 November 2019 17:01 (ten months ago) link

coachella is p unwoke

global tetrahedron, Friday, 1 November 2019 17:10 (ten months ago) link

this is kinda like the system of a down thing. only 5 shows finishing with a festival headliner. and both played phx... im in.

de-mamba mentality (Spottie), Friday, 1 November 2019 17:13 (ten months ago) link

I would def go if I lived near tx,nm,az

ت (jim in vancouver), Friday, 1 November 2019 17:14 (ten months ago) link

Wonder if Beto's gonna sit in at the El Paso date?

a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 1 November 2019 17:16 (ten months ago) link

coachella's gonna be lit (i.e. Woodstock 99)

DT, Saturday, 2 November 2019 00:40 (ten months ago) link

Search Urban Dance Squad
Destroy RAGTM


I still stand by this.

nathom, Saturday, 2 November 2019 07:34 (ten months ago) link

This band has always been absolute shit and I can’t believe they’re being critically rehabilitated. Fucking revisionist history bullshit.

Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 2 November 2019 13:37 (ten months ago) link

Another thing to blame the millenials for I guess.

Mr. Snrub, Saturday, 2 November 2019 13:37 (ten months ago) link

Critics loved this band

The Mandymoorian (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 2 November 2019 14:26 (ten months ago) link

I have no particular feelings about RATM but I enjoyed this video of a guy listening to killing in the name of for the first time.

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 2 November 2019 14:41 (ten months ago) link

ten months pass...

You don't *need* to call me out, Jordan.

Capsule history of Ned and RATM -- warm July night, 1992, some time before the first album came out.

FRIEND: "Come, Ned, let us go to this benefit with lots of bands on it. Rage Against the Machine are playing, and I have seen them and they are great. You will like them."

NED: "I trust you, friend."

[at show, RATM take the stage and the entire crowd goes nuts]

NED to self: "My friend alas lied. This is absolutely terrible jock rock pig-headed fucking crap."

Further encounters with the group's work over time merely confirmed this. You are welcome to their idiocies. ;-)

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, May 4, 2002 7:00 PM (eighteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

nerd

global tetrahedron, Sunday, 13 September 2020 04:03 (one week ago) link


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